KotOR 3 - No Obsidian Please!

[Prime]

superior to the K1 plot which was just copied from the OT.

Luke is Vader????

[adamqd]

^^^

 

 

 

I think people use any exuse to beat down KOTOR because its not cool to like it. Its as if TSL is "the thinking man's" star wars or somthing.

 

Regarding things resembling the OT, GL has always said Star Wars is about good V's evil, reacurring themes & motifs, Greek tragedy, both games have this.

 

lets not get picky about who does it, but WHEN there gonna do it

[PoiuyWired]

Well, NWNII have such an ending which may dut to an expansion pack in the future.

 

But kotor II has no expansion pack planned definitely.

 

TO be fair though Obsidian did a good job on the game. While I am not sure about the way the do the ending(its bad, cause a 15 second flick might already solve the problem) Obsidian did a good job telling the story, on places where they have enough time doing it. The majority of the story is nice(barring a few incomplete spots) all the way, up til the whole Alive Jedi-Masters-screw-you-over thingy. Well that means they are capable to make a good game, barring time.

 

And no, please don't beat down on kotor1. The game is great, and the mirror to OT is nice and subtle, yet you KNOW they are doing it deliberately. It is just different.

[Pavlos]

Luke is Vader????

 

Dear lord! That's a plot twist and a half.

 

On the topic of KotOR copying the original trilogy. Hmm... it is filled with lovely Star Wars clichés which is why it works . But I don't think the entire game is a mirror for the films; it is just a classic good vs. evil tale - or in the case of a dark side player... evil vs. evil (but the duality is not as nice there ).

[Coza1000000]

What have you got against Obsidian did very well with Kotor after being the prequel to a different company!

 

-There's always a bigger fish-Qui-gon Jinn

[Darca Lar]

I personally like K2, but the ending was about the equivalent of the last two movies for the Matrix Trilogy...rushed through. They just didn't take the time to put together the best ending to the sequel.

[Char Ell]

I personally like K2, but the ending was about the equivalent of the last two movies for the Matrix Trilogy...rushed through. They just didn't take the time to put together the best ending to the sequel.

I personally see no real similarities between the endings of the last two Matrix movies and TSL's. I for one thought the endings of all three Matrix movies were quite good. if my avatar is any indication...

 

If LucasArts goes with Obsidian Entertainment as the KotOR 3 developer then we'll just have to hope that Obsidian takes lessons learned from TSL's development to heart. At this point I don't have a stinkin' clue as to who will develop KotOR 3 so I'm not going to get too worked up about this subject.

[Darca Lar]

I say the last two were rushed through because they made them both within around one year's time. And it didn't seem like they took the time to make any alterations to create a really good trilogy. But I'm getting off topic...

[SilentScope001]

If nobody actually make K3, I'll be okay with that.

 

We all already know the ending, the True Sith gets genocided. The End. Bioware and Obisidan doesn't have to make the game if we all know what will happen next and if there is no plot twist whatsoever within it.

 

I'll be more happy if K3 was made, but if they do mess K3 up, even worse than what some people believe that TSL was messed up, well, better no game than a bad game.

[TheRealDem]

I like Both Games and I think Obsidian Should be given the job for KotOR III.Like stoffe said People learn from their past including big companies.The Storyline was good for TSL the ending could have been better like if you actually saw ur character go after revan and he/she met up with Revan and depending on both of their allignments you either joined forces or had one last battle to the death.But I know K3 WILL be better than the first 2

 

 

*******Sin*******

[T-bolt]

We all already know the ending, the True Sith gets genocided. The End. Bioware and Obisidan doesn't have to make the game if we all know what will happen next and if there is no plot twist whatsoever within it.

I think you are confusing the true sith with the sith species, we don't know exactly who or what the true sith are yet. And since there's a sith empire around in one form or another until their defeat by the Jedi 1000 years before the films, when the rule of two is established, then there's plenty of scope to play with.

 

That's assuming that the true sith are the main plot of the game.

 

If Obsidian stick with the formula of the first two games and use an OT ending then they should do alright as long as it doesn't include Ewoks.

 

Though which ever company gets the contract I hope they create the engine from scratch, designed from the ground up for a Star Wars game rather than modify an existing engine.

[TKA-001]

I really don't care who makes K3 as long as the story lives up to the previous two.

[SilentScope001]

I think you are confusing the true sith with the sith species, we don't know exactly who or what the true sith are yet. And since there's a sith empire around in one form or another until their defeat by the Jedi 1000 years before the films, when the rule of two is established, then there's plenty of scope to play with.

 

Nope. No matter what happens, no matter whom the True Sith are: The True Sith will be defeated, and will be destroyed. They may come back to live later like Darth Sion (but for now, they're as good as dead).

 

What? You are going to have Revan, Exile, and the Jedi Padawan find out, "Oops. You lose!" Er...nope.

 

Main reason K3 looks to be disappointing, because it already got a predictable ending, that the heroes win. AGAIN. They better have a pretty good plot twist, and maybe have an ending where the True Sith takes over.

[stoffe]

Main reason K3 looks to be disappointing, because it already got a predictable ending, that the heroes win. AGAIN.

 

Most games are like this, so it would hardly be something new. I think there are very few players of KOTOR(1) who got past the opening StarWars text scroll without expecting to confront and defeat Darth Malak at the end of the game.

 

But the end is not everything. The journey towards the end is usually more interesting, since that's where you will spend most of your time playing the game. Even if you know how a game is going to end it can still offer interesting and fun gameplay before you get there, in my opinion.

[T-bolt]

Nope. No matter what happens, no matter whom the True Sith are: The True Sith will be defeated, and will be destroyed. They may come back to live later like Darth Sion (but for now, they're as good as dead).

Not really, the plot need not encompass the entire force of the true sith. They might not even be the main focus of the plot, just the starting situation.

 

Main reason K3 looks to be disappointing, because it already got a predictable ending, that the heroes win. AGAIN.

As stoffe says it would hardly be something new. How many single player story driven games are there where the objective isn't to win or there's no hope of winning?

 

They better have a pretty good plot twist, and maybe have an ending where the True Sith takes over.

If the game doesn't take place in Republic space then anything is possible, as long as it doesn't involve the destruction of all life in the galaxy.

[mjpb3]

You don't think game developers are able to hone their skills with time and practice, improve, learn from past mistakes and evolve beyond them in their future projects? I don't think people are quite so static in what they can accomplish that you have to judge the present or future by what has happened in the past.

I agree, stoffe--BUT! I don't want to waste $50 (or so) of my hard earned money on a learning exercise for a game development company to "hone their skills", you know? I'd rather pay that kind of money on a game that is actually playable.

 

 

(Not that KotOR II isn't playable, but even KotOR II's biggest fans have to admit that there are some annoying practically gamestopping moments in the game.

 

Plus, the ending... (yes that again) I am sorry to the KotOR II fans, but the ending was a real letdown for me...)

 

 

Anyway,I really don't care who makes KotOR III, just as long as KotOR III is just as good as KotOR I, and better than KotOR II.

[SilentScope001]

Most games are like this, so it would hardly be something new. I think there are very few players of KOTOR(1) who got past the opening StarWars text scroll without expecting to confront and defeat Darth Malak at the end of the game.

 

I know it is hardly something new. Which is why....er...I dislike it. It just seems too boring.

 

But the end is not everything. The journey towards the end is usually more interesting, since that's where you will spend most of your time playing the game. Even if you know how a game is going to end it can still offer interesting and fun gameplay before you get there, in my opinion.

 

Eventually, the ending does make the game what it is, though.

 

What made K1 bearable was the fact that you get to choose the ending. It is this freedom of choosing between LS and DS, between saving the Republic and taking over the Sith Empire, that makes KOTOR better a bit. Malak's dead, but what happens next? That's up to you.

 

Not really, the plot need not encompass the entire force of the true sith. They might not even be the main focus of the plot, just the starting situation.

 

True Sith secretly backing [iNSERT ENEMY HERE!]. Destroy [iNSERT ENEMY HERE!] and you win K3!

 

...er, that doesn't sound that appeizating, but it could work.

 

As stoffe says it would hardly be something new. How many single player story driven games are there where the objective isn't to win or there's no hope of winning?

 

Call of Chutlu: Dark Corners of the World. KOTOR 2: The Sith Lords. The PARANOIA tabletop game.

 

There, 3 games where the objective isn't to win or there is no hope for winning. I liked them. They are in the minority, yes, but they are different, that's for sure.

 

Doubt they'd ever get popular, but I would like to see some more games like these.

 

If the game doesn't take place in Republic space then anything is possible, as long as it doesn't involve the destruction of all life in the galaxy.

 

Well, now that I think about it...

 

Could the destruction of all life in the galaxy be a noncanon ending for a DarkSider? End the universe right here, right now? That could quailify as a plottwist in my book. No worries of not fitting with the timeline, falling to the DS already is a slap to the face for LucasArts.

----

...Eh. I'll just wait then for/if K3 comes out. Just don't broadcast the ending of the game like you did for K1. TSL kept the ending hidden until...well, you reached the ending.

[Darca Lar]

Eventually, the ending does make the game what it is, though.

 

Yea, but one of the greatest aspects was the climax where you find out just who your character is. That's what made the game so interesting.

[playloud]

Yea, but one of the greatest aspects was the climax where you find out just who your character is. That's what made the game so interesting.

I agree.

 

Regarding KoTOR2. I was very happy with the game (until the end of course). I felt the story had LOTS of potential. However, I felt I should have learned more as I visited each Jedi Master. The Exile would ask them questions he/she already knew the answer to (due to speaking with another master previously).

 

Also, there were some dumb things. For example, the conversation with the master on Dantooine (IIRC). After you whoop ass Jedi style, you have to tell him that you have regained your connection to The Force? To me, it was rather obvious.

 

Another problem I had with TSL, was when I (The Exile) was asked about my past. I have some options to choose from, but I have no idea what actually happened, so I don't know how to answer.

 

I really would have liked to see what the game could have been if Lucasarts had not rushed Obsidian. I thought they made MANY little improvements over the original game. Examples... The upgrade system was nice, as well as lockers that tell you if they are empty.

 

I didn't like the fact that you could turn just about everybody into a Jedi. The Handmaiden made sense to me, but not the rest.

 

Also, they have to find a better way of making the combat harder. Even on the hard setting, the game was fairly easy. I know it is tough to make a non-linear game challenging the whole way through, as you don't know what level the player is going to be when he reaches certain content, but they really need to find a way to do this.

 

Anyway, I hope K3 is made, and whoever gets the project (Bioware or Obsidian would both be fine choices IMHO) I hope is given proper time to develop the game.

[Gargoyle King]

KotOR 3 - No Obsidian Please!

After reading a not-so spoiler of NWN 2, I have to honestly say that Obsidian should not touch KotOR 3.

Its true that Obsidian did a botched, rushed job on Kotor 2; but this is only because LucasArts pushed for a deadline, Obsidian had to cut corners to get the product done in time - thus the reason for the TSLRP in the works. If Obsidian had more time they could've implemented more things such as the droid factory and the M4-78 planet, but time-constraints meant that this was not at all possible. I personally wouldn't mind Obsidian developing the third Kotor game (if there is ever to be one). What would be great would be an Obsidian-Bioware collaboration in developing the third game - that would be awesome!!

[PoiuyWired]

Actually, the way M4-78 is built, I don't think it was intended to be in the game at all, The droids are there for testing stuff out, hence the massive unfinished empty space and what not. Whatever is really is it would be something interesting.

 

The droid factory... seriously, I would love to see them doing it in k3, if there is a chance. I know some of us would be bored of it(cause most have played thru it one way or another) but it is still nice.

[ztemplarz]

This is actually from the official Obsidian forums. Note that this isn't a claim that they're going to make it, but only proof that they are interested...

 

Feargus Urquhart

View Member Profile Apr 4 2007, 09:01 AM Post #6

 

 

The Big Cheese

 

 

Group: Developers+

Posts: 167

Joined: 5-February 04

From: Orange County, CA

Member No.: 4

 

 

 

4:

QUOTE(Dagon @ Apr 22 2006, 02:55 PM)

Any Post Apocalyptic or S-F titles developed by Obsidian in the future?

 

 

 

 

Two answers in a month, hey at least I'm getting a little better at this. It is funny as you get older that time does seem to just speed on by. Well enough on that tangent.

 

So, as it turns out, between when this question was asked and today many of you have probably already seen Sega's announcement that we are going to be making an Aliens RPG for them. I can't really go into anymore details about it other than to say it is an RPG and there are Aliens in it. Well I can say a little more in that we are focusing a great deal on the RPG aspects of the game, so no one needs to run into the hills with worry that we are going to make DOOM with Aliens in it and one extra stat slapped on it.

 

As for future titles, I would like us to continue making both Fantasy games and games placed in other genres - like Post Apocalyptic and SciFi. A number of us have been toying around with the idea of a Post Apocalyptic Fantasy world. There are a number of campaign worlds out there that explore this idea and I think a really cool video/computer game could be made within a world like that. While we couldn't go with the campy 50's feel of Fallout (campy as in the Pip Boy look, not campy as in culture references), I think the tension created by having all the different fantasy societies trying to scrape by and rebuild would make for an interesting world to explore. As for a straight SciFi game, I don't have an real specific ideas about what we might do just yet. I know a lot of people around here love 40K, so I was thinking of talking to THQ at some point about whether they would like to a 40K game that is more RPG than RTS.

 

Finally, I should probably talk about the twin gorillas in the closet. I'm sure there's a correct analogy in there somewhere, but that's what came to mind. Anyway, I'm speaking of the the KotOR3 and Fallout gorillas. Both of those are games that I and everyone else here at Obsidian would love to make. I don't know if we will ever get the chance, but I do continue to talk with LucasArts about what might be going on with KotOR3. As for Fallout, like I said, I'm not sure if we'll ever get the chance, but I know that I'd love to make another Fallout - plus, I think Avellone's already designed the next 12 of them.

 

 

--------------------

 

Feargus Urquhart

CEO

Obsidian Entertainment, Inc.

[Arátoeldar]

I personally would love to have OE develop K3.

[The Source]

I agree, stoffe--BUT! I don't want to waste $50 (or so) of my hard earned money on a learning exercise for a game development company to "hone their skills", you know? I'd rather pay that kind of money on a game that is actually playable.

 

Anyway,I really don't care who makes KotOR III, just as long as KotOR III is just as good as KotOR I, and better than KotOR II.

I completely agree with you. Why should we waste our money on someone's 'learning exercise'. As a graphic designer, I do most of my 'learning experiements' behind the scenes. When I send an actual product out to the public, I don't show any evidence of my learning curve. This also includes my class work. Once my final design is ready to be turned in for a grade, I clean up my work, remove unecessary pieces, and treat it like a polished project. F.Y.I. - I deal with forever changing deadlines, and I am still able to make my projects look polished and finished. I hold every other professional to these high standards. Game developers are professionals. Deadline changes or no deadline changes - they should have released KotOR II in a completed and polished off state. Even if they loss some moeny, Obsidian should have did some overtime. If I am held upto high standards as a graphic designer, regardless about deadlines changes, Obsidian should be held up to the same high standards. Even though they are a failry new company, Obsidian should have show that they were professional. I don't care whose fault it was in the first place.

[Gargoyle King]

I completely agree with you. Why should we waste our money on someone's 'learning exercise'. As a graphic designer, I do most of my 'learning experiements' behind the scenes. When I send an actual product out to the public, I don't show any evidence of my learning curve. This also includes my class work. Once my final design is ready to be turned in for a grade, I clean up my work, remove unecessary pieces, and treat it like a polished project. F.Y.I. - I deal with forever changing deadlines, and I am still able to make my projects look polished and finished. I hold every other professional to these high standards. Game developers are professionals. Deadline changes of no deadline changes - they should have released KotOR II in a completed and polished off state. Even if they loss some moeny, Obsidian should have did some overtime. If I am held upto high standards as a graphic designer, regardless about deadlines changes, Obsidian should be held up to the same high standards.

 

I think this is why game modding is so popular, as its free and it is no cost to the player if they play a highly anticipated mod and it turns out to be well below their expectations.