Darca Lar Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Well that's another thing, was he actually killed, or did the struggle of the fight cause him to lose control and just crumble into the abyss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediphile Posted December 1, 2007 Author Share Posted December 1, 2007 Well that's another thing, was he actually killed, or did the struggle of the fight cause him to lose control and just crumble into the abyss. If you're talking about the final battle against the Mandalorians at Malachor V, the description of the Nihilus mask in the game leaves little doubt, if you get Visas to get it for you. [Description of the Nihilus Mask] "You have taken this trophy from the remains of Darth Nihilus - it is the last surviving piece of the beast who died and was reborn in the shattered world of Malachor V. By taking it from him, you have gained a stronger tie to the Force." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 If you're talking about the final battle against the Mandalorians at Malachor V, the description of the Nihilus mask in the game leaves little doubt, if you get Visas to get it for you. Visas also says that he looked like a man. (Through force sight!???) Would that not mean that that is were he really died, on the bridge of the Raveger? Just curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediphile Posted December 1, 2007 Author Share Posted December 1, 2007 Visas also says that he looked like a man. (Through force sight!???) Would that not mean that that is were he really died, on the bridge of the Raveger? Just curious... Maybe... After all, I hold to the theory that Nihilus is really the exile's dark half, which used its powers to animate the dead body of some fallen jedi to serve as its host, in which case that is the body Visas would see, and which would appear to be similar to any other dead person... until the body dissolves in a haze of red dark side smoke, that is... And the fact that Visas looks instead of the exile has always seemed odd to me. The exile was there at Malachor V, after all, so the man behind Nihilus' mask might have been somebody the exile knew. Yet the exile doesn't even bother to look. Why? I suspect it's because the exile already knew on a subconscious level and so fled from that revelation. The exile did not want to see Nihilus' real face, because it would be too difficult. The exile is, after all, in utter denial about his own contition and past throughout the game. So I don't think it unlikely that the exile "fled" from this revelation as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 After all, I hold to the theory that Nihilus is really the exile's dark half, which used its powers to animate the dead body of some fallen jedi to serve as its host, in which case that is the body Visas would see, and which would appear to be similar to any other dead person... until the body dissolves in a haze of red dark side smoke, that is... And the fact that Visas looks instead of the exile has always seemed odd to me. The exile was there at Malachor V, after all, so the man behind Nihilus' mask might have been somebody the exile knew. Yet the exile doesn't even bother to look. Why? I suspect it's because the exile already knew on a subconscious level and so fled from that revelation. The exile did not want to see Nihilus' real face, because it would be too difficult. The exile is, after all, in utter denial about his own contition and past throughout the game. So I don't think it unlikely that the exile "fled" from this revelation as well. That is a interesting theory. I never really thought that the Exile could be fleeing 'from the revelation...' Thank you for clearing that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ-W4 Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Interesting, indeed. However, canon says the Exile was female while Nihilus was a man. Gender shift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 hmmmm, that is also very interesting. Lots and lots of questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediphile Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 Interesting, indeed. However, canon says the Exile was female while Nihilus was a man. Gender shift? If the rejected dark half of the exile used its powers to "animate" the corpse of a dead jedi to serve as a host for it, then there is no problem at all. Then again, the dark half might not choose just any old dead jedi... Incidentally, isn't it strange that the exile's master is never mentioned in the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctrl Alt Del Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Incidentally, isn't it strange that the exile's master is never mentioned in the game? Wasn't Kavar one of her... Well, if Revan got many masters, then why can't the Exile have her share as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darca Lar Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 I think Kavar was just a mentor and not the Exile's actual master. I think the same goes with Atris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediphile Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 Wasn't Kavar one of her... Well, if Revan got many masters, then why can't the Exile have her share as well? Kavar: "Did you know that when I was training you I considered making you my Padawan?" So no. He trained the exile and considered taking him as padawan, but apparently decided against it. This line from the game makes it very clear that he was never he master, but merely trained him at one point. EDIT: Further evidence from the discussion with Kavar. He merely sparred with the exile, suggesting to me that he merely taught lightsaber combat. Kavar: "You always had deep connections to the Force. I am glad to see that it is once again your ally. When I first sparred with you during your training as a Padawan, I could tell that you were different. And it wasn't just your strong connection to the Force." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darca Lar Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Yup, that about does it. Exile's actual master was never revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalos Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 People talked about how they like KOTOR 1 more because it has a "Better plot" and that KOTOR 2s plot sucks. After spending an hour reading over this thread, I'd say KOTOR 2s plot whomps 1s. I agree with everything Jediphile has said. Everything fits into place and makes sense. It's also so interesting to think that Nihilus is just a phantom of the force, the result of a wound, and that he needs to eat and suck the force from others to just ensure that he continues on existing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exile007 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 It makes a lot of sense actually. Nihilus was said to be the big powerful person, he was too. In cut KOTOR 2 content it showed Nihilus completely owning Sion. We notice as Nihilus tries to do the same to the Exile he fails. Since they are linked Nihilus cannot harm the Exile from the very thing that linked them, the force. And since the whole thing was caused through the force. Yeah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarridus Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I remember first reading this thread a month ago and it really was a revelation at the time as I had previously only gotten back into the KOTOR games after a few years of not playing them. I still believe that this theory is one of the best out there and it really made Nihilus into a more compelling character for me after the long read. And after reading up on the Obsidian forums and elsewhere that this was the intent of the Obsidian devs, it makes the theory even more compelling, and in my opinion 100% convincing. Great job Jediphile. This thread is one of the few, I even bothered to bookmark, and for good reason. Now, off to lurk some more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Yeah, JediPhile really good at, how should I say this, thinking. It seems to me that he thinks about this things for a long time, and reveals them and they do make a lot of sense. But thats Jediphile for ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAWUSS Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 [Description of the Nihilus Mask] "You have taken this trophy from the remains of Darth Nihilus - it is the last surviving piece of the beast who died and was reborn in the shattered world of Malachor V. By taking it from him, you have gained a stronger tie to the Force." It could also be symbolic to the Exile since, in a way, the person who she was "died" at Mally V and she was "reborn" into the person she became at Mally V. But then again, I dunno.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadYorick Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 People talked about how they like KOTOR 1 more because it has a "Better plot" and that KOTOR 2s plot sucks. After spending an hour reading over this thread, I'd say KOTOR 2s plot whomps 1s. I agree with everything Jediphile has said. Everything fits into place and makes sense. It's also so interesting to think that Nihilus is just a phantom of the force, the result of a wound, and that he needs to eat and suck the force from others to just ensure that he continues on existing. Kalos this tidbit about Nihilus is practically the only good thing about the plot besides Atton Rand and the climax of the game. Plus 70 percent of Nihilus's plot here was barely mentioned in the game. Nihilus was the best part of the game yet he was barely in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadi Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I've always liked the theory that Nihilus was the split personality of the Exile. Granted, the Exile is supposed to be female while Nihilus was male but in many cultures, humans carry both aspects in their personality. Example, the Chinese believe in the Yin and Yang. And those who suffer from split personalities don't necessarily have personalities that are of their own gender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkolas Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Question. How does Nihilus' pattern of speech fit into this theory? I've heard his talking is like the that of the Ancient Sith language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logan23 Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 I love the theory! I was just wondering what happens after the final battle in kotor2. Does the Exile decome whole? Will Nihilus always haunt the Exile? Will the Exile stays as a being who feeds off the force of others? Did the Exile reconnect to teh force or only through Kreia and the Exile's party members? Logan Kotor: Revenge of Revan http://kotorrevengeofrevan.wetpaint.com/ http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=186405 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCarter426 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 This is a theory I've had for some time as well (and as noted previously, Mr Avellone's comment all but proves it). What really made me see the connection between the Exile and Nihilus was that there is a clear connection in the game between the Exile and all of his/her foes--Sion, Nihilus, Atris, Kreia, all of them. They all serve as warnings for the Exile of what could happen if one relies on the Force too much--something that the Exile is in danger of doing, for he/she has always relied on the Force to bond with others, especially after Malachor. Now, onto other matters... Regarding Nihilus' appearance in Legacy, what's actually said is so vague that nothing can be made of it, and Krayt doesn't even get an anser out of Nihilus, so who's to say that he wasn't wrong? I was just wondering what happens after the final battle in kotor2. Aren't we all? Does the Exile decome whole? If Exile is LS, most likely yes. The whole "saving yourself" thing mentioned in the journal entry could be metaphorical; in defeating Nihilus, the Exile has become whole again. Will Nihilus always haunt the Exile? If Exile is DS, definitely. The Exile will always have the potential to turn into Nihilus (or Atris or Sion or Kreia, for that matter). Will the Exile stays as a being who feeds off the force of others? Did the Exile reconnect to teh force or only through Kreia and the Exile's party members? This I'm not certain of. Kreia tells the Exile that she wants him/her to feel the Force again, so that he/she does not have to rely on bonding with others anymore. Judging from the overall themes of K2, I'm willing to bet that Kreia was successful. By the way, I'm new here. Hello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctrl Alt Del Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Will the Exile stays as a being who feeds off the force of others? Did the Exile reconnect to teh force or only through Kreia and the Exile's party members? We can't truly answer that, just make suppositions. But I believe that yes, the Exile regains his connection to the force, just as every time you level up and on some key moments on the game as the generic "You regained some connection to the Force" message displays. Besides, we don't wholly knows how that bonds work, but the Exile does all on Malachor V alone. Of course he has some help (as seen on the cut-content) but the others are somewhat far away. By the way, I'm new here. Hello. Hello there and welcome to the forums! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCarter426 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Besides, we don't wholly knows how that bonds work, but the Exile does all on Malachor V alone. Of course he has some help (as seen on the cut-content) but the others are somewhat far away. That's a good point; the Exile finishes off Sion and all those Sith Assassins without relying on his/her bond with his/her companions. And then the Exile actually kills Kreia, even though they have a bond that is supposedy lethal. I think that was all part of Kreia's plan: Kreia wants two things: 1. She wants revenge against those that exiled her (both Jedi and Sith). 2. She wants revenge against the Force. Kreia sees the Exile as a tool for her to achieve both. While she doesn't succeed in actually killing the Force, she manages to help create a being that does not submit to the will of the Force. Now, how does she do this? She threatens to kill herself, forcing the Exile to do her bidding and kill Nihilus and Sion. So, if the Exile doesn't fight Nihilus, he/she dies. If the Exile dies, Nihilus dies--so Kreia achieves at least one of her goals. But when the Exile kills Nihilus, he/she no longer needs the bond with Kreia or anyone else, which is how the Exile manages to face Malachor alone. Of course, it's likely that the Exile didn't know this, otherwise they wouldn't need to go to Malachor in the first place. Furthermore, if we look at some of the cut content for Malachor, it was originally planned that the player would have two choices--to save their party members, or to face Kreia alone, and become stronger for it (though it seems you wind up alone in either case). Hello there and welcome to the forums! Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 ^ That does make a lot of sense. I honestly could never think of such theories. Very interesting stuff... Sheesh Ctrl, you beat me to it. I will say it anyways, Welcome to LucasForums JCarter426!! ~Rev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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