Jedi?

[Windu Chi]

Yes, when master Vrook told me that in KotOR, I hung my head and turned off the game. (Did I miss out on anything?)

Yeah, you miss out, adventurous fill life of a warrior.

Hey, if you don't care then your lost.

[ExiledFish]

I Have thought this over. And decided i'd be a useless jedi due to my horrible destructive temper... Though maybe being a dark jedi non affiliated with the sith would be ok.

[Negative Sun]

Grey Jedi are cool, it's what I would be, it doesn't necessarily have to be Sith or Jedi, look at the witches of Dathomir (sp?)

 

I would adhere to the Jedi rules to a certain extent but as it has been mentioned before, they're not exactly waterproof, especially not in the NJO...So I would definitely be a Jedi in Luke's academy, but maybe not under the Old Republic rules.

[Windu Chi]

 

I would adhere to the Jedi rules to a certain extent but as it has been mentioned before, they're not exactly waterproof, especially not in the NJO...So I would definitely be a Jedi in Luke's academy, but maybe not under the Old Republic rules.

Yes, I agree with the New Jedi Order (NJO), they're more wiser and less stuck up about having emotions.

I will want master Luke to train me, in the ways of the Jedi Knights.

[SilentScope001]

New Jedi Order died in Legacy, and good riddance to them. Luke's nephew was a Sith Lord, and their supporting of "attachments" really made them prone and very, very baised to the Dark Side. Plus, they couldn't defeat a race of non-Force Users, meaning that they leave a lot to be desired.

 

Old Jedi Order FTW.

[RedHawke]

Bah! If you refer to those who attempt to use both sides of the Force, they all fall to the dark side eventually!

Actually they seem to be falling to their 'emotions' not the Dark Side.

 

That is why Darth Spock will pwn you all... "It is logical that I rule the galaxy!"

 

Being a gray Jedi is like being 'a little bit pregnant'. You're either light or dark.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes!"

[Nancy Allen``]

Something to toss up here. As a Jedi you cannot go about doing good acts till your heart's content. Classic example, the Mandalorian Wars. The Jedi wanted to wait, but Revan, Malek, the Exile, Nosotsa and others believed there was no time. They couldn't wait. What would have happened if they did follow the Jedi? Could you have done that? As a Jedi? Classic example of why I'm the wrong type to be a Jedi, I would have reached the point where the Jedi could wait no longer especially in the face of destruction the Mandalorians were causing.

[True_Avery]

Would I be a Force-User? Damn right!

 

Would I be a Jedi or Sith? Pfft, no. I don't believe in absolutes.

 

I know the flaws of both and would not follow either if given the choice. Gray Jedi all the way. I am pretty much "inbetween" in everything else in my life, I don't see how a Force allignment changes that. I'd be so much like my vision of Revan (Read my damn long posts to understand that ).

 

Answering Nancy, If I knew what I knew now, I would have to really think about following them to war, but if I was ignorant to what I know now I would follow them all the way. Revan had the right idea, and I would follow her to the end. Sadly, following Revan or not, as a Force user you are probably doomed to die anyway in the war or purge in that general time frame.

 

If I HAD to choose a side, Jedi. I got no problem with staying out of a relationship for my life and defending the... dare I say it... good. It's not like the Sith and Jedi have much of a half-life anyway. Sith always kill eachother and Jedi have the tendancy to get wiped out for years at a time.

 

I disagree that being gray makes you prone to fall to the darkside or makes you jump into the light. There are many examples of Gray Jedi and the entire point is that they have fluxes, but someone who truly believes it can work always finds some form of middle ground to step on. The Jedi are blind and ignorant and the Sith are lost within themselves with hate and power. It's too bad really, because right between Sith and Jedi is exactly where Humanity stands.

 

Hold onto your Humanity, and you hold onto that small step that is between Light and Dark.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

Being a gray Jedi is like being 'a little bit pregnant'. You're either light or dark.

I'm too lazy to save people and too lazy to hurt people. Levitating another bowl of Cocoa Puffs from the kitchen though? That's right up my alley.

[SilentScope001]

I'm too lazy to save people and too lazy to hurt people. Levitating another bowl of Cocoa Puffs from the kitchen though? That's right up my alley.

 

What about your lost remote?

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

I'm using my PDA as a remote now.

[Prime]

Well, to me, a Gray Jedi is one that gets to choose if he wants to be Light or Dark, rather than being forced to be Light (if he is a Jedi) or Dark (if he is a Sith). That's all.

For the sake of this discussion, I just want to point out that the canon definition of a "Grey Jedi" is one who does not follow the instructions or commands of the Jedi Council. For example, Jolee. To be clear, the term does not refer to a Jedi who attempts to use both sides of the Force and avoids being corrupted by it. Also note that technically there is no "light side" of the Force. There is only the Force in its natural state and the dark side, which is a corruption of it.

 

Just so people (and I) don't get confused on what people are debating.

 

Thats exactly how I view them. That and the acception of a gray's ability to use either Light or Dark side powers without seeing any good or evil from them.

But the dark side is inherently evil in the Star Wars universe canonically, and using it is in and of itself and evil act. There isn't a way to use lightning and not have it be an evil act, for instance.

 

So true, however, I imagine falling to the darkside isn't instantaneous.

Some may not even know they're falling until it's too late.

Dooku being a perfect example. Vader being another.

 

During this time a jedi may choose to follow some of the rules of the order and dissmiss others. At this point he/she would no longer be truly light but may not have reached the depths of darkness as of yet.

Again, that's the difference I'm trying to point out with the Grey Jedi definition above. Being a Grey Jedi means they are going their own way from the Jedi Council. That does not imply one way or the other whether they use the dark side of the Force or not. A Jedi can be Grey but still have nothing to do with the dark side. But I digress and agree with what you are saying.

 

But as Prime has suggested' date=' eventually, without following the strict mandate of the order, to the darkside they will fall.[/quote']I think it is important to remember that the rules the Jedi had at the end of the Republic were not in place just for the sake of having rules. They been created over thousands and thousands of years in response to what they learned about the Force.

 

You can argue whether different rules could be used, and the Jedi did lose sight of the reasons for them. But those rules were in place to address the very real dangers that their powers and the dark side presented to themselves and others.

 

And remember that Anakin would not have destroyed the Jedi Order if he and the Jedi had simply followed their own rules in the first place.

 

Yes, I agree with the New Jedi Order (NJO), they're more wiser and less stuck up about having emotions.

I will want master Luke to train me, in the ways of the Jedi Knights.

The NJO is hardly wiser. They are discovering for themselves the reason that the old Jedi had the rules that they did. As SilentScope001 pointed out, the NJO does not have a particularly stellar track record. A Sith Lord developed right next to them and they failed to heed many of the warning signs. There have been many in the new order that have fallen to the dark side. Definitely a much higher failure rate than the old Republic had.

 

That being said, the new order is starting to learn for themselves what rules are required, and rediscovering the wisdom that the old order had on certain matters. That journey is important, so that they learn things first hand.

 

Actually they seem to be falling to their 'emotions' not the Dark Side.

"Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side are they!"

 

I disagree that being gray makes you prone to fall to the darkside or makes you jump into the light.

Because I'm not sure what definition of Grey Jedi you are using here, I'll give two responses.

 

In the canon definition, being a Grey Jedi means that that person will not have a set of rules to follow that will help them avoid the temptations, so in that sense they are also more prone.

 

By the other definition, it means that the "Jedi" is actively using the dark side and will face the temptations of it when an actual Jedi will not be exposed to them. In this case again the "Grey Jedi" is more prone to falling to the dark side.

 

There are many examples of Gray Jedi and the entire point is that they have fluxes, but someone who truly believes it can work always finds some form of middle ground to step on.

Can you give examples? There are several canon Grey Jedi, but I'm not sure of any that successfully used both sides of the Force that didn't eventually fall...

 

The Jedi are blind and ignorant

In what sense?

 

and the Sith are lost within themselves with hate and power.

Can you explain this further?

 

It's too bad really, because right between Sith and Jedi is exactly where Humanity stands.

But the Jedi have a greater responsibility due to their powers, don't they? Ordinary humanity has no such powers.

 

Hold onto your Humanity, and you hold onto that small step that is between Light and Dark.

But that is saying to use those powers in an irresponsible manner, isn't it?

[SilentScope001]

For the sake of this discussion, I just want to point out that the canon definition of a "Grey Jedi" is one who does not follow the instructions or commands of the Jedi Council. For example, Jolee. To be clear, the term does not refer to a Jedi who attempts to use both sides of the Force and avoids being corrupted by it. Also note that technically there is no "light side" of the Force. There is only the Force in its natural state and the dark side, which is a corruption of it.

 

I agree with you on this point, but also add in that a Gray Jedi would not align himself to the Sith Order, otherwise he would be considered as a Sith. My definition states that he is neither a Jedi or a Sith, but he gets to choose if he wants to embrace the Dark Side...or not to.

 

But you cannot choose both. You can only choose one or the other. Essentially, you are either Dark or you are what many people would call Light (even so techincally the Light Side doesn't exist, it's only the natural state).

 

A Gray Jedi could also be seen as a Dark Jedi, and maybe it might be best to leave that distinction vague.

 

(However, there may be the possiblity of actual "Grey-Alignment" Jedi, as in TSL, where having a grey-alignment leads you to get an uber-powerful cyrstal. Grey-Alignment Jedi may be what many people confuse with Grey Jedi, and a Grey-Alignment isn't really free. In this case, the Grey-Alignment Jedi has his own moral code to follow: You must do evil deeds and good deeds. You must kick the old lady to the ground and then help that old lady down the street. And, sometimes, you do the Grey-Alignment just for the Cyrstal, or for RP purposes, having fun being such a strange character.)

 

But the Jedi have a greater responsibility due to their powers, don't they? Ordinary humanity has no such powers.

 

Ordinary humanity do have access to huge guns and weaponary. Nuclear weapons, firebombs, and tanks. The only technolgy that the Human race does not have is mind control, but judging from the movies and the books, that is used very rarely, even by Dark Siders. Force Lighting for instance? We got the Electric Chair.

 

So, ordinary humanity, if they are in charge of a huge military force, like say, the American Army, could be in the same position of the Jedi, with having an approxmation of absolute power.

 

Can you give examples? There are several canon Grey Jedi, but I'm not sure of any that successfully used both sides of the Force that didn't eventually fall...

 

Well, any in the KOTOR series really. Due to the game system's ability of using powers different from one's alignment costing extra Force Points, even Light Side Jedi could use Force Lighting, as long as they got Charisma to decrease the cost of using those powers. A Grey Jedi pays less Force Points.

 

And since you don't gain DS points for using Force Powers in the KOTOR series, and your personality doesn't change, you won't fall to the Dark Side. (For example, you can hand Jolee Force Lighting for example, and Jolee would never fall to the Dark Side, due to the fact that he is a stubborn old man.)

 

I know, I know, game mechanics are not canon. Still, I'd like to point it out.

[Windu Chi]

I agree with you on this point, but also add in that a Gray Jedi would not align himself to the Sith Order, otherwise he would be considered as a Sith. My definition states that he is neither a Jedi or a Sith, but he gets to choose if he wants to embrace the Dark Side...or not to.

 

It might be wise to observe both sides.

Knowing the whole picture.

 

But you cannot choose both. You can only choose one or the other. Essentially, you are either Dark or you are what many people would call Light (even so techincally the Light Side doesn't exist, it's only the natural state).

Maybe you can choose both, only logic will argue that you can't choose both.

 

 

 

 

 

Ordinary humanity do have access to huge guns and weaponary. Nuclear weapons, firebombs, and tanks. The only technolgy that the Human race does not have is mind control, but judging from the movies and the books, that is used very rarely, even by Dark Siders. Force Lighting for instance? We got the Electric Chair.

All that is useless next to the power of the Force.

 

So, ordinary humanity, if they are in charge of a huge military force, like say, the American Army, could be in the same position of the Jedi, with having an approxmation of absolute power.

I highly doubt it, don't get taken in, that more numbers always mean victory,

the American Army will be useless in comparison to Force users.

 

 

 

Well, any in the KOTOR series really. Due to the game system's ability of using powers different from one's alignment costing extra Force Points, even Light Side Jedi could use Force Lighting, as long as they got Charisma to decrease the cost of using those powers. A Grey Jedi pays less Force Points.

Thats a game, what are you talking about, there is no points in real life.

If the Force is real, there will be no points system to refer to.

[ExiledFish]

"I shall use lightning to zap these storm troopers."

 

* check points system and has to little fp*

 

" If only I had invested in charisma."

[True_Avery]

Hmmm, I'm going to try to answers these to the best of my ability. I find it hard at times to turn my opinion into words and it can come out harsh and/or very much lacking in information almost always. Makes me feel bad when I think back on it, but I would at least like to clear up what I said a little.

 

This is mostly towards Prime:

 

A checked sources and you are right, there are no Gray Jedi or in fact anybody that used both (Outside of a game) and didn't fall somehow.

 

And for my comments on Jedi/Sith and Humanity issue stand:

I have a problems with "good vs. evil" standpoints, and have come to dislike the concept of a good and evil Force quite a bit, even though it is etched in stone. The Light side is always the good guys, always the ones who are hanging onto a life away from the Dark Side in which they are told to let go of small to large parts of their humanity to protect themselves. But through all their teachings, all their wisdom, they seem to get wiped out quite a bit at in large amounts... usually from the ones they trained. But you are right, the rules and teachings of the Jedi are there for a reason and a damn good one... it is just a reason that I do not think should be there.

 

I can accept and like the Light Side to a degree (As in games I am usually farther light then Dark), but the concept of a Dark Side of the Force really erks me. A "good" standpoint or at least a more human one is tolerable, but to say that the "power" or "energy" of life in the universe has a Dark Side that cannot be controled to any degree, but instead controls you and consumes your mind and deforms your veiws and body is just... *sigh*.

 

The Dark and Light are cool ideas, and it is what mainly brought me into Star Wars universe. Not the cool lights and technology, but the moral standpoints that the stories imply. But I am a person who enjoys finding middle grounds in anything she can, so I was facinated in what a person would be like if they had control over both sides. But after reading into it, I find the Light users have a vastly hard time controlling and have to rise above humanity to save themselves, and the Dark Side is merely an evil and corrupting thing that... well, you know the rest. I know these are mirrored off of the conflict of light and dark that is constantly in motion in all people, but the Force just HAS to put it to one of the extremes all the time. It leaves no space open for a middle ground, no space open to say that good and evil are relative, a point of veiw, and you can control each with enough control over yourself.

 

The Jedi, in my opinion, have holes in their teachings that tell their students to fully and completely ignore the Dark Side, but know well of its taint. All that most students ever know is that it is evil and wrong, and many Jedi die an old age believing just that. The Sith usually come out of the order looking for more, and corrupt themselves or fall to the Dark side through the powers and teachings of the Sith. In Canon it makes sense, but when I try to think about it, it does not make sense at all to me. If you are going to teach, teach both sides so the person knows the lessons of each, but if you are training Jedi... train them as Jedi. But no, it wont work outside Canon because of the Black and White Force that Star Wars has to offer. Even one of my favorite characters, Kreia, ends of being lost and hateful of herself and others. I would agree with her, the Canon Force is a cruel and manipulative thing that should be destroyed or silenced so it cannot keep destroying more.

 

It has depressed me as far as Star Wars goes. Thats why I love the KOTOR games so much. It is possible to be in a middle ground, or even an extreme yet still use powers from both sides. It is refreshing. It is also one of the reasons I practically fell in love with Revan. Not everybody may have played her the way I did, but I loved her backstory, abilites, and mostly all her ideals.

 

So, mostly when I argue about the Force I have no real intention to lean too heavily on Canon Dark and Light. Hate me for it if you want, but I am just that way and it is what inspired me to put together my Fanfiction... even though I post more than I work on it

 

But enough of my senseless dribble. I really got nothing but personal belief to back me up, and in the end that does not mean much.

[Totenkopf]

If something like the force existed, it would be useful to be an adept at tapping into its power, but as to choosing sides, I'm not sure I'd want to completely go either way. Afterall, it's possible to be good for the most part in life, even if some of the things you do are arguably questionable to some people. It seems that much boils down to intent. If you do the "wrong thing" for the "right reason" are you then evil/dark sided? Think Harry Callahan. What if you do what seems like good, but it's only for selfish reasons (ie PR stunts to enhance your public image)? Are you really good/light sided? Seems it's not so much the knowledge itself that makes one good or evil, but rather how one handles the struggle to play god with other's lives that gets one in trouble.

[Lord Spitfire]

NO! I'm not about to make myself an emotionless, spiritless, PATIENT (shudders), passionless, Angerless walking corpse who sacrifices - though they have nothing ot sacrifice - for 'good.'

 

Ungh! It sickens me. Though I'm, an eternal Sith-Hater, I would rather be a Sith! At least they have emotion, even if they are completely evil.

[Windu Chi]

 

And for my comments on Jedi/Sith and Humanity issue stand:

I have a problems with "good vs. evil" standpoints, and have come to dislike the concept of a good and evil Force quite a bit, even though it is etched in stone. The Light side is always the good guys, always the ones who are hanging onto a life away from the Dark Side in which they are told to let go of small to large parts of their humanity to protect themselves.

Thats why so much suffering has occur under their watch, like in the Mandolorian Wars, where many planets was wipe out, because some Jedi had no feelings toward the suffering and death of the civilians of those worlds.

Only until Jedi like the Jedi Exile and Revan ( I assume they both are male, of course.) decided they won't taking that bull from the council anymore and went to stop the Mandolorians from slaughtering the citizens of those worlds.

After becoming aware of the genocide of the Cathar.

I would definitely not stand for it either, I would have join them.

But through all their teachings, all their wisdom, they seem to get wiped out quite a bit at in large amounts... usually from the ones they trained.

They get wipe out a lot because of their flawed beliefs and how they strive to be pefect by following their strict teachings toward emotions, like not having fear for example.

If you don't have fear in a battle, you won't anticipate the unexpected, some won't have no concern about being harm, so they will easily become vulnerable in combat.

Some won't ever anticipate an unforeseen combat strategy that will be taken full advantage of by their adversaries; base on them not having fear, a flawed teaching (in my opinion) from the Jedi Order.

So, many of them will be defeated easily, by their opponents in combat.

Not having fear is a unforeseen distraction (in my opinion) in battle, True_Avery.

That's another big reason why so many Jedi have been snuff out in the many battles over the 1,000 of years of the Order.

 

I know these are mirrored off of the conflict of light and dark that is constantly in motion in all people, but the Force just HAS to put it to one of the extremes all the time. It leaves no space open for a middle ground, no space open to say that good and evil are relative, a point of veiw, and you can control each with enough control over yourself.

You are a wise girl, wanting to know both sides is very wise, True_Avery.

[Darth Manus]

If you ask me, their insistence on emotion suppression may end up making a lot of their apprentices neurotic.

 

Also, I like the idea of a self taught lightsaber wielding paladin more than that of a power hungry brat being spoon fed ridiculous Sith propaganda. As for the Jedi, the problem is that they're so convinced of their infalibility, nobody will take responsibility for the mistakes they make out of self righteous arrogance and ignorance. The Sith basically say "Do what you want, because you can.", while the Jedi say "Our way is the only way. Either you agree with everything we say or you're a Sith."

 

So in a way, the Jedi order can be its worst enemy, since, like the Disciple says, they're too cloistered and isolated from real life.

[Prime]

Ordinary humanity do have access to huge guns and weaponary. Nuclear weapons, firebombs, and tanks. The only technolgy that the Human race does not have is mind control, but judging from the movies and the books, that is used very rarely, even by Dark Siders. Force Lighting for instance? We got the Electric Chair...So, ordinary humanity, if they are in charge of a huge military force, like say, the American Army, could be in the same position of the Jedi, with having an approxmation of absolute power.

But the difference is that humanity created all those things for the specific purpose of killing other people. The Jedi are born with the ability to use the Force, and the Force allows them to do many useful things if used correctly. That skill and the opportunity to use it wisely to benefit others is the responsibility. They have to deal with the fact they can use the Force whether they like it or not.

 

I know, I know, game mechanics are not canon. Still, I'd like to point it out.

You beat me to it!

 

Maybe you can choose both, only logic will argue that you can't choose both.

And the story itself.

 

The Light side is always the good guys, always the ones who are hanging onto a life away from the Dark Side in which they are told to let go of small to large parts of their humanity to protect themselves...But you are right, the rules and teachings of the Jedi are there for a reason and a damn good one... it is just a reason that I do not think should be there.

But Star Wars is constructed as a myth or fantasy and is not intended to function like our world. I think sometimes people (not you specifically) try too hard to apply real-world behaviors and concepts into that universe.

 

A "good" standpoint or at least a more human one is tolerable, but to say that the "power" or "energy" of life in the universe has a Dark Side that cannot be controled to any degree, but instead controls you and consumes your mind and deforms your veiws and body is just... *sigh*.

But the dark side does not control you, and that is the important point. As Yoda says, no one is forced to fall to the dark side, it is always a choice. The dark side merely tempts you follow down that path.

 

I think the best analogy is that the dark side is like a powerful drug. At first, someone tries it and has an amazing experience. That tempts them to try it again. The more they use it it starts to take its toll, but the experience is so powerful they continue to use it despite the downsides. Soon the desire to continue to have those experiences causes them to place it above all other things, regardless of the costs. They always have the choice to stop using the drug, but the temptation to continue using it is so strong it is nearly impossible to resist. Similarly, the dark side does not force you to use it, but for some it is too tempting not to.

 

The Dark and Light are cool ideas, and it is what mainly brought me into Star Wars universe. Not the cool lights and technology, but the moral standpoints that the stories imply. But I am a person who enjoys finding middle grounds in anything she can, so I was facinated in what a person would be like if they had control over both sides.

Fair enough. To me that is less interesting because that essentially would be power without consequences.

 

I know these are mirrored off of the conflict of light and dark that is constantly in motion in all people, but the Force just HAS to put it to one of the extremes all the time.

Again, this is really the result of the kind of universe Lucas wanted to create, which is based off myths and legends, and not necessarily the real world.

 

It leaves no space open for a middle ground, no space open to say that good and evil are relative, a point of veiw, and you can control each with enough control over yourself.

But what do you actually mean? How can you use the dark side and not have it be an evil act? What is the middle ground you are refering to?

 

So, mostly when I argue about the Force I have no real intention to lean too heavily on Canon Dark and Light. Hate me for it if you want

No hating required. It is fun to debate, and you explain yourself well.

 

If you do the "wrong thing" for the "right reason" are you then evil/dark sided?

Ask Vader.

 

NO! I'm not about to make myself an emotionless, spiritless, PATIENT (shudders), passionless, Angerless walking corpse who sacrifices - though they have nothing ot sacrifice - for 'good.'

Why don't they have anything to sacrifice?

 

Thats why so much suffering has occur under their watch, like in the Mandolorian Wars, where many planets was wipe out, because some Jedi had no feelings toward the suffering and death of the civilians of those worlds.

You completely missed the Council's point. They didn't hold out because they didn't care! They held out because they felt (correctly as it turned out) that they didn't know the whole picture and that the Mandalorians weren't the real threat.

 

They get wipe out a lot because of their flawed beliefs and how they strive to be pefect by following their strict teachings toward emotions, like not having fear for example.

If you don't have fear in a battle, you won't anticipate the unexpected, some won't have no concern about being harm, so they will easily become vulnerable in combat.

What on earth are you talking about here?

 

Some won't ever anticipate an unforeseen combat strategy that will be taken full advantage of by their adversaries; base on them not having fear, a flawed teaching (in my opinion) from the Jedi Order.

So, many of them will be defeated easily, by their opponents in combat.

This doesn't make any sense. In the Mandalorian Wars the Jedi were superior commanders and the war was turned by their involvment. They defeated the Mandalorians both as generals and as combatants. Why do you say they are easily defeated? And if that was really the case, they would have been killed off millenia beforehand and never would have become the the guardians of the Republic.

 

while the Jedi say "Our way is the only way. Either you agree with everything we say..."

You sum it up beautifully.

[Darth InSidious]

^I'd have to disagree with Darth Manus about the Jedi - so far we have no information regarding prejudice toward the Baran Do, the Zeison Sha, the Jal Shey etc etc...

[SilentScope001]

To help Prime out in defending the Jedi Order's desicion to not fight in the Mandalorian Wars...I'll quote a post I made on another forum...

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vandar_Tokare

 

Vandar was believed to have seen a vision of a horrible war, in which the galaxy would be placed in darkness, as revealed by Bastila Shan on Taris. It is not known what exactly he saw, but it was this vision that caused the Jedi Council to not act in the Mandalorian Wars.

 

With K1's information, you could conclude Vandar saw the Jedi Civil War and wanted to prevent it. The Jedi Council would love to genocide some Mando's in order to save other planets, but were worried of this vision of the Jedi Civil War and tried to stop it by not acting in the Mandalorain Wars...which compelled Revan and Malak to act, whcih started the Jedi Civil War. Great example of the Self-Fufilling Properchy my friend, altough it may be more of an irony...The Force showing Vandar something, and Vandar, in an attempt to prevent it from happening, caused it to happen anyway. (Somehow, this reminds me of Anakin's fall...)

 

But with the new information from K2...prehaps this plunging into darkness and this horrible war...I speculate that prehaps this properchy could be reinterperted to mean that Vandar learnt of the True Sith and feared the Mandalorian Wars was a trap that was set by the True Sith to cause a great war.

 

Basically, the Jedi Order had good reason not to intervene, both in K1 and K2.

[Windu Chi]

 

But Star Wars is constructed as a myth or fantasy and is not intended to function like our world. I think sometimes people (not you specifically) try too hard to apply real-world behaviors and concepts into that universe.

I think she know it's a myth but do you ever open up your mind to other possibilities, like maybe in another universe all George Lucas imagine is a reality.

Or, do close you mind to other possibilities Prime?

And stay close-minded as a skeptic.

 

 

You completely missed the Council's point. They didn't hold out because they didn't care! They held out because they felt (correctly as it turned out) that they didn't know the whole picture and that the Mandalorians weren't the real threat.

Well, thats your opinion, not mine.

I wouldn't let the suffering continue.

 

What on earth are you talking about here?

I know it's odd but hey as you should already know I'm the oddest person on this forum. As I was saying, I think not having fear will make you vulnerable in combat.

You know reckless endangerment in some with absolutely no fear.

Also by trying to be perfect, with give you a false sense of good fortune.

In combat this false good fortune will be a distraction, that will make you vulnerable.

Now, if you don't get it continue to think of me as the weird one, then you will understand, Prime.

 

 

This doesn't make any sense. In the Mandalorian Wars the Jedi were superior commanders and the war was turned by their involvment. They defeated the Mandalorians both as generals and as combatants. Why do you say they are easily defeated? And if that was really the case, they would have been killed off millenia beforehand and never would have become the the guardians of the Republic.

I wasn't not talking about the damn Mandalorian Wars, Prime.

I was speaking in general, I think having emotions will be your ally not your enemy.

[Totenkopf]

Perhaps I should have been a little more specific. Using Dirty Harry as the example, he was relentless and didn't flinch from using arguably excessive violence (ie the "wrong thing") to rid the city of parasitic scum/criminals (the "right thing"). So, while he was clearly an anti-hero style cop (much like his spaghetti western "good guys"), was he really evil? If you look at a lot of the things that were done to fight WW2, there were some pretty arguably inhumane (ie "wrong") things done by the allied countries to prosecute the war. That didn't necessarily make the allies evil.