Doctor Who!

[Gabez]

I've probably missed the right time to post about this (ironically), but better late than never.

 

I was just wondering if there were any other Doctor Who fans at Mojo? If so, what did you think of the last season (due to conclude this Saturday)?

 

I loved it, though I think season two was a little more exciting. Blink was really good though, and the 1913 episode, and of course theis season finale which is shaping up to be really exciting (as it always is).

 

Martha is a good companion... very different from Rose. I like the way that she's been in Rose's shadow this past season, and only emerged right at the end. We haven't had much of her family (certainly not as much as Roses) but now we're starting to really care about them. I think this was a good decision - I was a big Rose fan, and I wouldn't have liked it if we'd moved on too fast.

 

And Captain Jack. I love Jack.

[plamdi]

BINK DOESN'T WORK - YOU CAN CLOSE ONE EYE AT A TIME AND STILL BE LOOKING AT THOSE THINGS!!!!! HOW STUPID ARE THEY???? I'll remember to download the "final 3 episodes" either sunday or monday.

[Thrik]

I kind of drifted off watching it after the episode in the spaceship with the mask blokes. Although I did watch the two new series, I've not really found myself drawn to them anymore. They all start to seem very similar after a while, especially the episode I just mentioned and that one with the devil in the last series. Also there've been far too many Daleks.

[Gabez]

Yeah, the Daleks are around a lot considering that they were supposed to be extinct. Also, Rose hanged out with her father way too much, considering that he was supposed to be dead.

 

But the thing I love about Doctor Who, is that it somehow manages to bypass the cynical adult side of my brain, and plug straight into my excited, wonder-filled inner child, in a similar way that games like Monkey Island do.

 

Funny that you say that all the episodes seem the same after a while... I always think that another of the shows strengths is how varied it is. Unlike something like Star Trek, the characters can be in any place or time - so one episode they're on the moon in the present day, the next they're talking to Shakespeare, the next they're in the year five billion, on another planet... also, the assistant and even the main character changes.

 

I loved the "blokes in the masks" episode! Madame De Pompodou. I like episodes like that, which play around with time, like Blink did. The Satan pit was also very good.

 

plamdi.com: that's true, though if you do that I find you still have an urge to blink... like, blinking with only one eye sort of goes half-way, and it makes it more tempting to go all the way. Try it and see!

[plamdi]

Okay, so I downloaded Utopia and The Sound of Drums, the finale is not looking as good as the last series, I must say.

 

I think they're still to do a good Dalek episode; with the exception of the finale of Episode 2 - though that was a cyber-man/dalek episode. All other dalek episodes in the new series have sucked. Daleks in Manhattan started well, but it all went downhill in Evolution of the Daleks. I also don't think they've done enough episodes outside of Earth.

 

I still think that 13 episodes is the length of a "mini-series" and not a full length series. And in many ways it seems that the "specials" are always the best episodes! I say that with a bit of reservation, because the finale for 2006 was good (and much better then 2005), but still The Runaway Bride was excellent... compared with somewhat ordinary episodes like Gridlock, 42 and Human Nature. It also seems that through 2005-2007 the writers have been making a cliché out of disallowing the doctor access to the TARDIS - how many times to they expect to beat that horse? And now with the current season finale... well I don't want to spoil it for anyone, but I'll just say the 2007 finale uses an enemy of the doctor that should have been retired long ago.

[Gabez]

Wow, what an amazing last episode! My heart was beating so fast!

 

13 episodes is considered quite long in British terms, as some series' only last six.

[elTee]

I think the whole six episodes thing started out as a BBC thing before it just became the norm - like, they couldn't commission anything much longer just on good faith because of the license fee. I mean, imagine if they came up with something absolutely awful! Wait, what was my point?

[Huz]

My TV stopped working about two minutes into the finale. Rubbish.

[scabb]

I tend to dip into (the new) Dr Who from time to time, and I think it's very hit and miss. I preferred Ecclestone as the Doctor too, but that's probably because I like his big ears and Manc accent.

 

Some episodes I can remember as being particularly good include the ones with the Slitheen, the Werewolf episode, and that one where they go down to that big pit and chat with satan.

 

Oh, did anybody catch the Weakest Link today? It was a Dr. Who special! K-9 was booted off unfairly in the initial round of voting, and Rose's mum won it. Hurray.

[plamdi]

Lots'a spoilers ahead, I don't recommend reading beyond this sentence unless you have seen the finale... and most other episodes 2005-2007.

 

Okay I watched the finale... definitely not as good as 2006, which is a shame because David Tennant is really good as the Doctor. Wait, I think everything about the 2006 season was better then both 2005 and 2007. Doctor Who needs to learn from their past and from what other successful series are doing at the moment - if you look at the first doctor he's stories are very different from say the 3rd doctor, because they changed the direction of the show. But more then direction and format, they need to reinvent the show. This is why South Park is still on the air. Like 24 - which I discovered with the fifth series.. and now that I've seen all (except series 4, but I'm getting there) - I still believe it's the best out of all of them - but with that said series 3 was much better then the first two, and it's largely due to the fact that 24 reinvents itself, and doesn't assume that they'll just keep their target audience by doing the same thing again and again. I'd say series 3 was the second best out of all of them (not counting series 4 as I've only seen the first few episodes of it).

 

Another thing they need to do is bring it to Australian TV sooner. They did this last year, but I wasn't going to wait until July this year - it's a fact that Australians are the leaders in downloading TV episodes, and it's largely due to the fact that we don't get to watch the dammed series on television (that and they cancel shows). If they had started mid-May (or maybe even if they let us know when they would eventually broadcast) I would be watching them on TV instead (of course, I may still be tempted to download the 2nd part of a 2-parter.... if it was really gripping).

 

And a Saturday night timeslot???? They really need to secure a better timeslot.

 

Personally I would like to see the series split into two 25-minute episodes per week; I think that would work much better then one 45-minute episode. I'm sick of the fact that so many TV series are so long; I get impatient now with movies that go longer then 120 minutes (except very good drama movies like say The Godfather... or Zodiac - loved that movie). I don't mind watching a lengthy documentary...

 

Anyway, technical aspects aside, I don't think the writing is anywhere near the standard it needs to be. There are also things which really don't make any sense - like walking straw-men... oh sorry I mean scare-crows. This was somewhat tested in 2005 with the first episode, but all in all they don't contain any energy which they can use to move - like a car without fuel. Dalek was a terrible episode. None of the dalek episodes thus far have truly shown the dalek's cunning; they plan and have contingency plans, and would probably set out a decoy before the real attack! And they should have a TARDIS of their own; I mean they've had one before!

 

They also lost my suspension of belief that the Master couldn't get the TARDIS to work. "Locked it's coordinates permanently"?? So how did he expect to unlock it later and travel at will? - A sonic screwdriver is still only a screwdriver, it can't unlock something with a deadlock - so it can't lock something with a deadlock either. Meaning if the Doctor could unlock the coordinates later, then so could the Master. There was way too much of taking the doctor out of the action to make his fate dependant on others in this series, it was a cliché.

[I say, I say]

I enjoyed Utopia and The Sound of Drums, but some of the finale was just too much I think. The whole 'deus-ex-machina' ending to the piece with the Doctor doing a 'Peter Pan'-type moment of everyone saying his name and he regenerated back to his usual self was a bit...cliche. Loved the real identity of the spheres though, thankfully not redesigned Daleks or anything else. However the ending was brilliant to this episode, Martha's leaving a bit unexpected but with promise of return, as was the Master's demise and also promise of return. I think this was a better finale than last years, which merely fed off the hype of the two series' 'biggest baddies' going head to head.

 

Overall, a slightly disappointing conclusion, but I will be tuning in come Christmas.

[plamdi]

[Again, spoilers follow] I dunno, I think the 2006 final was very well done (of course it still suffered from that stupid "touch to open" crap). It wasn't perfect, but it was much better then 2005 and this 2007 one. In the TV movie it is clearly expressed that the Master has used up his 13 regenerations - so why should he have even been able to regenerate again?

 

I also speculated ages ago that "you are not alone" does not mean there's only one other timelord. I don't know if they just want people to believe it's just the Doc and the Master... but I speculate there are more timelords then that. And as I said before, the sonic screwdriver can't lock a deadlock; and if the Doctor could unlock the coordinates so could the Master. The Master isn't stupid and once had his own TARDIS, if the Doctor could unlock it so could he.

 

You can't leave out the Doctor all episode - it doesn't work. Doesn't really work as a 3-parter either, it should have been a 2-parter (with the "Utopia" occurring earlier in the series).

[Gabez]

Timelords get more than 13 regenerations... they just have to find a new body and start again, which I think was what the TV movie was about (I dunno, it's beena while since I've seen it).

 

Huz: it's repeated on BBC Three on Sunday (today) at 7.00, and then on Friday at 8.00!

 

A lot of people (all two of you!) have been mentioning cliches, but I don't think that cliches are neccesarily bad. If it's done well, and it's exciting, and it builds on the action and magic, then who cares if it's been done before?

 

I thought that the 2007 season was in some ways better than the previous two - at least it didn't have any turkey episodes like Love and Monsters or Boom Town! But, to each their own. The important thing is that you enjoy it, and I enjoy Doctor Who like nothing else. It's easily my favourite TV show.

 

I hope for season four we get the hinted Agatha Christie episode. I loved seeing Dickens and Shakespeare.

[plamdi]

Timelords get more than 13 regenerations... they just have to find a new body and start again, which I think was what the TV movie was about (I dunno, it's beena while since I've seen it).

I seem to remember the Master saying "this body won't last long".

A lot of people (all two of you!) have been mentioning cliches, but I don't think that cliches are neccesarily bad.

So then why do you think they cancelled the longest running TV show? And then when they bought it back insulted fans with 13-episode series (this is a bonus question!)??

[spoon_man]

I haven't seen the third season yet. But I loved the first two as well as the Baker and Pertwee years. Nothing like a bit a really good Adventure story to get my blood pumping.

 

...Also I think the Doctor might be Jesus Christ but I'm not entirely sure.

[Gabez]

Anyone else excited by the Christmas special that's coming up? Kylie + the longest episode so far = probably pretty good! Though I don't really know much about Kylie, except she's a singer and used to be in Neighbours. I'm probably more interested in the Neighbours connection.

 

Also, Stephen Moffat, the best writer on Doctor Who in my opinion (he did Blink) is adapting Tintin for the films -- but that's a whole other forum thread.

[s-island]

My favorite season finale was the one where the Doctor and his companion encountered what seemed like a new threat, but at the end of the first episode, there was a great reveal showing who the real threat was.

 

That enemy then proceeded to conquer the Earth and it did that, but at the end someone pressed the reset button and saved the world. Then someone left.

 

Now, tell me, which season finale am I talking about?

[The Tingler]

Do I really have to say Army of Ghosts/Doomsday?

 

MY favourite season finale was when the Doctor and his companion, after narrowly defeating the Master and saving not just Earth but another planet as well, walk off into legend with the Doctor talking about freedom, injustice and the tea getting cold.

 

That was THE series finale.

[s-island]

Survival was best! The outfits of the gym people were awesome!

 

I was trying to make the point that RTD's season finales all contain the same meta-story, but with a different cast. Same ****, differerent wrapping.

[s-island]

Aww, you got the "naughty" words censored.

[The Tingler]

If you count Utopia as part of Series 3's finale, then actually yeah.

 

We all knew the Daleks were coming in Series 1 though - the trailer gave it away the week before.

 

And I'm still fecked off about the Cybermen being upstaged in Army of Ghosts.

[s-island]

So, are anyone gonna watch Torchwood when it returns tomorrow? Last season was a bit of a train wreck.

[The Tingler]

I am and it was, however supposedly they've taken all the criticisms of the first series on board and dealt with them - early reviews have been very positive.

 

And James "Spike from Buffy" Marsters is in it! And Ms. Martha Jones!

 

However, expect the new series to get progressively more American, as it's unfortunately been a big hit in the States somehow.

[s-island]

I found a clip on Youtube from the mid-80s that had Chris Chibnall criticizing Pip and Jane Baker for their contributions to Doctor Who, calling their stories "runarounds on a space ship". What I find funny is that his first contribution to Doctor Who, the episode 42, is exactly that. His Torchwood episodes aren't that much better.

 

I'm reminded of stones and glass houses...

 

However, expect the new series to get progressively more American, as it's unfortunately been a big hit in the States somehow.

If, by American, you mean more like the X-Files, then I say go for it.

[The Tingler]

Saying that, I don't know exactly what I mean by more American! Less Cardiffy perhaps...