DarthExile27 Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Greetings everyone I was wondering, why so many people don't like Sion and Kreia? Personally I think they are far more interesting than that over-rated Darth Nihilus. I liked having Kreia around me, I really did feel like her student. Even though she gets annoying at times, but nonetheless she was a well thought out character and her voice is great. As for Sion he was pure brutality, and he was also pretty deep in terms of story with a great voice and look. I also like the fact that it's his hate that's keeping him together. As for Nihilus they make him sound like such a badass, but yet they never show him doing anything. I know Visas says he consumes planet, but they never show him actually doing it. He just stays in his ship waiting for you to kill him. So in closing I don't mean to start a flame war, I just want to know why most choose Nihilus over Kreia and Sion? Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander the Great Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 I've got nothing against Sion, but Kreia always finds some way to reprimand you at every turn until the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gargoyle King Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Funnily enough i must be somewhat of an "anomalie" then since my fav. Sith Lord from TSL was Sion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediphile Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Lots of people like Sion or Kreia more than Nihilus. I'm surprised they haven't answered this yet, but I suspect they will. Personally I do tend to favor Nihilus, since he is mysterious and menacing, an evil force of nature in a similar vein to Dracula and his ilk, while Sion is little more than a brute who can't die. Kreia is a fantastic character, however. She is by far the strongest and most complex character in the KotOR games, and the voice-acting by Sara Kestelman is just breathtaking. "It is such a quiet thing to fall... But far more terrible is to admit it..." Ooooh, still makes me shiver... Lots of people don't like her because she's such a bossy old hag. I think many overlook that they dislike her so much exactly because she is so perfectly done in the game. And I like her complexity. I mean, in the end, is Kreia really a hero or a villain? It's up to the player, since it depends entirely on your own perspective. That's good writing in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gargoyle King Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Lots of people don't like her because she's such a bossy old hag. Yeah, just think of Bastila about 60 years into the future, jeez! Kreia was an interesting character, as is her alter ego of Darth Traya. My opinion of her in game was that she was evil as she was trying to destroy the force, of course this is the canon aspect of her character but with the TURC by team-exile will be restoring the part where you can redempt Kreia (of which Atris then becomes the new Traya) so i'd love to see how this pans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthExile27 Posted October 15, 2007 Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 I also forgot to mention that this topic isn't directed to anyone in this forum, it's just that Nihilus has always been the poster boy for KOTOR 2, and Sion and Kreia are left in the dust. So I'm just trying to understand his appeal over the other two. I agree Kreia was somewhat annoying, but that just added to her mentor aspect early in the game; but I agree she was a well written character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 it's just that Nihilus has always been the poster boy for KOTOR 2, and Sion and Kreia are left in the dust. True, a lot of the concept art and stuff are of Atris and nihilus, who are not figured in the story as much as others. Personally, I don't mind Nihilus, the masks crap but he's an interesting character to a point, I've no time for Hag and sleeps with vibroblades, but I am a bit of a K1 fanboy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Shake Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Sion was always my favorite sith lord in TSL. I think if his character had been more developed he would be more appealing to others. as for Kreia, she is one of the best characters ever developed for any game IMO. I never saw her as evil but doing her job of getting the exile ready to go into the unkown regions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totenkopf Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Nihilus never seemed to be anything more than a force wielding cancer, about as intersting as the Blob. I think that, as Jediphile seems to indicate, he seems more interesting to some b/c he's "mysterious" (ie. not overly developed, at least w/in the confines of the game). Sion may have been an "indestructable" brute, but at least you got some idea of who/what he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I really don't know what to think about Nihilius, Sion or Kreia. They all die in the game, and we don't know all that much about them. I would have to say the best "sith" out of the three would have to be Darth Sion. He had the most hatred out of all of them. He was strong and weak at the same time though. He showed mercy to Kreia on the Harbinger, and let the Exile go, and did not follow him/her to finish the job on Korriban. He was strong ( because of his hatred), but he was also weak. I only chose him only because he used his pain and his hatred to keep on going. If he hadn't had the hatred he would be nothing more than a Dark Jedi. (to me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Other than the totally idiotic 'I'm going to stand while mortally wounded and monologue you to death or until you run out of dialog tree options, whichever comes last, before I finally fall over and die' ending, I loved Kreia. She's my favorite 'bad guy' (except for maybe HK) in TSL. Nihilus--so much potential, so under-utilized, that he became nothing more than a cookie-cutter semi-boss with a really cool mask and this cool force-sucking power, but not nearly enough hit points. Sion--Sleeps-with-vibroblades is gawdawfully ugly. Yes, I know it's by design that his eyeball is hanging off his cheek and his limbs are falling off in chunks, but blech. However, I sure enjoyed the final fight with him (I thought it was the best of the three), and the dialog with a female Exile makes it really interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bee Hoon Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 You'll find e lot of people who like Kreia, really:) She is an absolutely awesome character, but naturally they wouldn't really wanna advertise "Hey! I'm Kreia and I'm the final boss!" Who else would be mad enough to want to kill the Force? I thought that Sion was ok, but I'm not mad about him. He gets really confused when you play a female exile, although I suppose that "I'll kill you myself before I let Kreia ruin you" is romantic in a bizarre Sith way:p Nihilus...gargles. He could have been so much better, if the developers had gone more into his background (which Jediphile was spot on about;)) And for goodness' sake, couldn't they have given some other voiceover/sound effects? Even tacky telepathic voices would have been better than the Sith mouthwash endorsement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I dont like sion because hes a bull sh!t overrated character, as for nihilus and kreia, i dont like them because they have no depth in their backstory. Out of these 3 nihilus is the most boring as he doesnt speak a clear word, his backstory and origin are all speculation Lots of people like Sion or Kreia more than Nihilus. I'm Kreia is a fantastic character, however. She is by far the strongest and most complex character in the KotOR games, and the voice-acting by Sara Kestelman is just breathtaking. "It is such a quiet thing to fall... But far more terrible is to admit it..." Ooooh, still makes me shiver... Shes the strongest kotor era character? No, revan and exar kun are His greatest feat > kreias. Remember when he walked the surface of malachor? The dark side plundered on him and attempted to consume him, and instead of that happening due to revans strength in the force, he reversed the effects and instead fed on malachors dark side as kreia admitted. Now when kreia said she stepped on its surface for the first time, she got overwhelmed by the dark side energies and gets consumed, and the end result is that malachor has broken kreia and turned her into what she is As for exar kun he could instantly freeze hundreds and thousands of people in the senate instantly with sith magic and he is also strong enough to use the dark side energies of yavin iv to overpower a post DE luke and tear his spirit from his body as well as instantly killing gantoris with his black lightning from the inside out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Monance Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Nihilus never seemed to be anything more than a force wielding cancer, about as intersting as the Blob. My thoughts on Nihilus exactly. Sion is somewhat interesting, but nothing more than a minion. Kreia on the other hand has a motive behind her actions (albeit that motive could've been better imo). Still she's by far the best character in Kotor 2. Complex and intriguing. @Sephira I think Jediphile is not talking about her actual power, but about how well writen her character is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I liked Sion more than Nihilus. Kreia was by far the best though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediphile Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Other than the totally idiotic 'I'm going to stand while mortally wounded and monologue you to death or until you run out of dialog tree options, whichever comes last, before I finally fall over and die' ending, I loved Kreia. She's my favorite 'bad guy' (except for maybe HK) in TSL. Kreia rules. No doubt about it. I don't agree with people who say she had no depth in her background. On the contrary - she is by far the character with the richest background in the KotOR games, I think. The only possible exception is really Revan, but that's only because Kreia goes to great lengths to hide her past. Most of it is revealed during the game, however, although some of it is highly speculative (chiefly whether she is Arren Kae or not...) Nihilus--so much potential, so under-utilized, that he became nothing more than a cookie-cutter semi-boss with a really cool mask and this cool force-sucking power, but not nearly enough hit points. In terms of game stats, yes, Nihilus sucks (and not just force power, I mean ) - he should have been much, much more powerful. Had I been the game programmer, I would have just let the fight continue without reducing his HPs at all until the exile and friends lost, then have Nihilus try to drain the exile thereby "recharing" the exile and draining Nihilus. Then he gets killed. It should be dictated by plot, not stats, IMHO. It's true that Nihilus doesn't have much background, but I think it's very unfair to label him as a bad character for it, since it was by design and not by omission. Reading Bram Stoker's Dracula, you also found out virtually nothing about Dracula's background, but it just makes him more menacing since it makes him the evil force of nature that you cannot hope to understand. Nihilus is just the same. To know him is to die. Sion--Sleeps-with-vibroblades is gawdawfully ugly. Yes, I know it's by design that his eyeball is hanging off his cheek and his limbs are falling off in chunks, but blech. However, I sure enjoyed the final fight with him (I thought it was the best of the three), and the dialog with a female Exile makes it really interesting. Sion's "romance" with female exile sucks. Period! Honestly, it is so out of the blue and incredibly cliché that it almost made me long for Malak's phoney laughter... I half expected him to pour out stuff like "your eyes are the only thing that shines in the darkness that is now my soul" or some equally overly sentimental and romantic nonsense. It's just so cliché it hurts... Actually, I take that back. To call Sion's "romance" cliché is an insult to the word "cliché" @Sephira Lance Monance is correct. Although if Revan and Exar Kun are the strongest, then why does Kreia tell the exile he/she is the greatest student she ever taught, when she thaught Revan as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Devon Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Even tacky telepathic voices would have been better than the Sith mouthwash endorsement. I think any text, legible voice, or means of understanding Nihilus would've spoiled his atmosphere. He's supposed to be something a sentient mind can't understand, more a force than living being. Adding something familiar that we can understand to something as alien as him wouldn't have been very fitting IMO. Other than the totally idiotic 'I'm going to stand while mortally wounded and monologue you to death or until you run out of dialog tree options, whichever comes last, before I finally fall over and die' ending What would you have preferred, her saying "It was great knowin' ya, Exile!" before falling over dead? In terms of game stats, yes, Nihilus sucks (and not just force power, I mean ) *Watch as ED's mind plummets into the gutter...* it just makes him more menacing since it makes him the evil force of nature that you cannot hope to understand. Nihilus is just the same. To know him is to die. Well, that's not quite the same now that we've heard from Avellone about it. (While his opinion isn't technically canon it's as good as IMO.) Sion's "romance" with female exile sucks. Period! Honestly, it is so out of the blue and incredibly cliché that it almost made me long for Malak's phoney laughter... That I think is subjective given his relatively unknown background. Coming from a random Sith Lord who's never known the player it is a tad facetious, though if he'd served under/trained with/whatever'd the Exile previously it would make more sense. My own theory is that they'd served in the wars togther, but alas, we have no real idea. *Wishes he'd asked Avellone* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 @Sephira Lance Monance is correct. Although if Revan and Exar Kun are the strongest, then why does Kreia tell the exile he/she is the greatest student she ever taught, when she thaught Revan as well? Because 1) Kreia never trained exar kun 2) She said greatest not strongest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garm_bel_iblis Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Jae Onasi: Other than the totally idiotic 'I'm going to stand while mortally wounded and monologue you to death or until you run out of dialog tree options, whichever comes last, before I finally fall over and die' ending, I loved Kreia. She's my favorite 'bad guy' (except for maybe HK) in TSL. HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAA Anyway, I agree with everyone who thought Kreia was a great character. I thought she was really deep and I liked her background. The fact that she's a Grey Jedi and she now despises both the Jedi and the Sith for the dogmatic teachings they arrogantly preach was pretty cool. Her objective of trying to find a way to break the Force and wipe it from the galaxy was also really original. It was kind of nice that the central conflict wasn't a villain trying to take over the galaxy with a huge army *yawn. I remember the dialogue written for her was really great, too. "There were ambitions. And my will was not law." Or something very similar to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bryddia Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 As far as why Sion and Kreia are concirned, I liked both more than Nihilus. In a way, the two (Nihilus and Traya) are psuedo-Sith, they are concirned not at all with the actual goal of galactic domination, nor do they hold true to integratel Sith teachings (example: The Code of the Sith, the Rule of Two{Which Revan beleived in according to the holocron he left behind on Lehon. [source, Darth Bane: Path of Destruction]}) Nihilus is more concirned with feading himself then, conquering, training apprentices, experimenting with Sith alchemy and sorcery, gaining a deeper knowledge of the Dark Side, or subjecting others to oneself. We all know Kreia's insane monomania, so I won't elaborate on that here. Sion, by contrast, is actually a bit more of a true Sith than his mentor and peer in that he actively hunts and destroys Jedi. However, he is also a pseudo-Sith. Due to his tollerating of those above him in power and his lack of other charictaristic Sith traits. Personaly, I thought Kreia had the most memorable and villianous character because we learned a ton about her, her world veiw (which I dispise) and her history, far more than Sions of Nihilus dark pasts are expounded apon. Yes, if anyone asks, I do know that it was most likely through desire for power and playing around with Sith teachings of arcane nature that Sion and Nihilus became who they are, they sense seem to have abandoned true Sith dogma. (And true Sith dogma is what distinguishes Sith from dark Jedi.) Kreia herself states during the final monologue that what we fought here ("beasts" I think was one of the modifyers she used.) were not the true Sith, that the true Sith waited for us in the dark.... *not intending to start another "True Sith debate, merely saying what seems pertinant in a discussion of the "Sith Lords".* -Bearer of the Krijinia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totenkopf Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 *Watch as ED's mind plummets into the gutter...* *still waiting for the sound of water splashing deep in the bowels of the sewer* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Zionosis Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Well actually Sion and Kreia were two of my top favourtite characters in KotOR II, I like the character of Kreia and I thought that her character was one of the more thought out party member story lines. As for Sion, well I just really liked the menacing manor about him, and I really liked his appearance as well, not to mention what made me like him even more was that he was Kreia's apprentice. As for Nihilus, well, to me he just seemed to boring and appeared like a poser of a sith, thinking himself all powerful, which I thought got old really quickly, I like his appearance yes, but he was just to dull. Anyway, just my thought on the subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediphile Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 As for Nihilus, well, to me he just seemed to boring and appeared like a poser of a sith, thinking himself all powerful, which I thought got old really quickly, I like his appearance yes, but he was just to dull. Meh... "I find your lack of faith disturbing..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Zionosis Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Meh... "I find your lack of faith disturbing..." I realise your trying to be funny, but I have no 'faith' in Nihilus, he was just so dull, I mean you couldn't even understand what he says, so... For me just way to boring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breger Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Hmm, I'm not sure what I think. Sure, Sion is one evil-badass-always-dead-and-still-not Sith, with a nice agenda (I think?), but I like Kreia and Nihilus more. Kreia, no need to say what I like about her, since all has been said, or at least most of it. Her depth of character was the best. I think her dialogues I continued to listen to, even on my third playthrough, while I sped through most of the other characters dialogues. And Nihilus, I had no problem hearing what he said. After all, I'm used to that wierd toilet-flushing speech (Don't ask why), so I had no problem at all hearing what he said. His dialogue was SOOO much better than Kreia's, even if it only where a few minutes of a mixturing of toilet-flushing and a barking dog and an old broken piano-synth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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