Recommend a Scifi RPG to me (stupid rhyming)

[Ctrl Alt Del]

There are some games that were meant to be actually praised on the west, thus we get some elements on those games that normally please we on this side of the globe.

[SilentScope001]

I somewhat enjoyed "Adventures in the Galaxy of Fantabulous Wonderment". It does appear to be an Elite clone (in which you play as a trader who can buy and sell stuff), but you do upgrade your ship to grow more powerful, and combat with your enemies is turn-based. It does however has tons of funny, made by Yazthee, the guy who does ZP.

 

I haven't completed it, but I think I will...um...eventually. The reason I recommend it is because it's free.

[Sabretooth]

I'd hesitate to call Dungeon Siege an RPG.

I think he might mean a user-created mod to Dungeon Siege. One set in a Sci-Fi setting perhaps.

Dungeon Siege is NOT an RPG. It's hack and slash. :thumbsdown:

Take it easy people, I never even said it was an RPG, sheeh.

 

*continues reading discussion*

So...... how about them games?

 

Yup. Just like Diablo is an Action/Adventure game with some slight amounts of RPG elements.

Give me one good opposing statement against this:

Mass Effect, Knights of the Old Republic, Fallout and Neverwinter Nights are all Action/Adventure games with some slight amounts of RPG elements.

 

And back it up with some facts or something.

 

Point taken. I'll rephrase. Stat-building is not the core of an RPG. You can have a game with stats that is not an RPG and you could potentially have an RPG without stats.

Then, Corinthan, what is the core of RPGs? Your previous statements seem to suggest "a decent story" is the answer, and that I'd highly oppose. You can have a perfectly fun and enjoyable RPG without any story. RPG storylines have ended up better in RPGs because they are on a generally epic scale and have a lot of time and space to add stories.

 

I'm frankly nauseated that people consider the drivel in Diablo 2 to be NPC Interaction. It's about as close to proper interaction as a sales pitch is to a healthy conversation.

Whether you vomit or not, people do and it officially is. You can't say something isn't what it is if isn't what you expect it to be.

 

I address Chrono Trigger.... snipped baiting--Jae

While most Eastern RPGs prefer to stay to their roots as much as possible, they sometimes deviate in design in order to accomodate the western audience, thereby increasing their sales and invading the western gaming mainstream.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

There's always this gem by Yahtzee.

 

Check it out.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

While most Eastern RPGs prefer to stay to their roots as much as possible, they sometimes deviate in design in order to accomodate the western audience, thereby increasing their sales and invading the western gaming mainstream.

Precisely. And we're not talking about Chrono Trigger/Cross here, Corinthian.

 

Point taken. I'll rephrase. Stat-building is not the core of an RPG. You can have a game with stats that is not an RPG and you could potentially have an RPG without stats.

So, according to your "strict views about what is a RPG", I take that Half-Life is a RPG with shooter elements on it?

[Corinthian]

Not really, no. Half-Life tends to be extremely linear, there are no side-plots, the dialogue is one-sided...Half Life is a pure FPS, although I'd say it still is closer to an RPG than Diablo.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

But many RPGs have the characteristics you just mentioned.

[Sabretooth]

Not really, no. Half-Life tends to be extremely linear, there are no side-plots, the dialogue is one-sided...Half Life is a pure FPS, although I'd say it still is closer to an RPG than Diablo.

Again, Corinthian - your definition of roleplaying is pretty vague. How do you define a perfect and pure roleplaying game?

[Corinthian]

Fallout, my dear Sabretooth, is a Perfect RPG.

 

Name one, Ctrl. See, I've always been of the silly impression that for a proper RPG the player has to have some degree of freedom beyond hanging out in Zozo fighting Hades Gigas until he's level 99.

[Sabretooth]

Fallout, my dear Sabretooth, is a Perfect RPG.

I asked for a definition, not an example. How do you define the perfect RPG and how many people back up your definition?

[SilentScope001]

While I am unsympatheic to the rants of Corinth, I do think you can have an RPG without stats. I played in PARANOIA, a game without stats, and it could be doable in a computer-setting, but you'll need to do lots of programming, and it could just devolve into a simple Choose-Your-Own-Adventure.

 

Here's a possible definition of a perfect RPG, which might suite Cornith:

 

[[A game where you "roleplay" and "pretend" to be another person. In other games, the focus would be on the gameplay (as the game would 'roleplay' FOR you instead of the other way around). In RPGs, the focus would be pretending to be that person, by engaging in dialouge, by trying to 'pretendly practice' to increase your stats, by making choices, and by walking around.

 

Basically, what makes an RPG? The ability to pretend to be someone else rather than having the game pretend to be someone else. In Fallout, you pretend to be the character, and the game handles all the combat. In HL2, you handle all the combat, and the game pretends to be the character.]]

[Ctrl Alt Del]

Name one, Ctrl. See, I've always been of the silly impression that for a proper RPG the player has to have some degree of freedom beyond hanging out in Zozo fighting Hades Gigas until he's level 99.

I think that Disgaea: Hour of Darkness will do. There aren't side-plots, the dialog is one sided and it's extremely linear. Still, it's one hell of a good strategic RPG.

 

Thing is, Corinthian, that your definition might work if we restrict our view to the most orthodox western developers (e.g. Bioware), but if we extend our view to the east games, that same view will crumble to dust.

 

In Fallout, you pretend to be the character, and the game handles all the combat. In HL2, you handle all the combat, and the game pretends to be the character

So does any Final Fantasy, Silent. The character decides where/how/what he's doing next. You just lead him there.

[Aeroldoth]

The fact that our perspectives are warped enough to place a game like Diablo and Dungeon Siege in the same genre as magnificent pieces of ART like Mass Effect, Fallout, Baldur's Gate, and Planescape: Torment is a testament to our failure as a race and as a society and that we should begin searching our souls for something that redeems us of this blight!

QFT

 

I, for one, second C's sentiments. Dumbed-down, watered-down simplified games with a dash of dialogue sprinkled on do not qualify as RPGs. Hack and Slash are not RPGs.

 

For those who don't know, RPG stands for Role-Playing Game. That means that the primary element is to role-play, as in, pretend to be someone else and interact with others AS that persona. It's acting meets storytelling. I distinguish RPGs from CRPGs (Computer RPGs) since CRPGs are inherently more limited and constrained than the open-endedness of real RPGs.

 

Perhaps my narrow views of CRPGS comes from having played D&D and other RPGs for almost thirty years. My point of reference is from sitting at a table with a bunch of friends while telling an interactive story. I suspect that people who consider games like Diablo a CRPG are people who have never played an actual RPG, and so their frame of reference will be quite different. From where I stand, Diablo has nothing in common with D&D, and so I cannot call it an RPG by any stretch of the word.

 

Speaking for myself, I too share some of C's anger over the practice of calling such games RPGs. Why? Because when I buy a game that says it's an RPG, I expect that there will be role-playing elements for me to enjoy. When there AREN'T, I get pissed off. I feel cheated, lied to, but most of all depressed, because this cool new game that I was all excited over is garbage. Now, I'm out the money for the game, all my anticipation for the game was wasted, and all the fun-filled hours I had envisioned will never be.

 

It's a big let-down, and what makes it so bad, is that I can't totally blame the game company. They called it an RPG because some people in this world think a game filled with endless hacking IS an RPG. So I get angry because of people who call something RPG just because it has magic swords in it. It is a corruption of the term. Would you be happy installing your cool new sports game and finding Pong? Would you be happy installing your cool new strategy game and finding Tic-Tac-Toe? How's about installing your cool new war game and finding rock-paper-scissors?

 

I'm guessing that people who have never played actual RPGs are getting their definitions from MMORPGs. If this is your frame of reference, then sure, I can see where you're coming from. To you, killing stuff, selling your loot, killing more stuff, then selling more loot, is an RPG. However, those are not RPGs.

 

People here have asked for some definitions for CRPGs, so I will attempt to comply. These are off the top of my head, but they may give you an idea of what I mean.

 

* Half of your time should be spent reading game text/ interacting with NPCs/ conversing with NPCs, as opposed to fighting. Buying from merchants doesn't count.

 

* Characters, including yours, should have depth, personality, and something unique about them that differentiates them from all the other characters in the game. Having a monster as a merchant doesn't count.

 

* There should be a strong sense of plot and storyline. Games can be linear or open-ended (the latter preferably), but there should be NO problem answering The Actor's Question, "What's my motivation?" If, after you've finished the game, you can't turn to a friend and tell them how the game went in a somewhat story-like manner, then it's not an RPG. Saying you got phat lewt and pwned everything doesn't count.

 

* The game should be immersive, realistic. You should have an idea of what kind of land you exist in, what major events are going on, who the local powers are and their motivations, etc. If you can imagine that this is a real place with things going on, things which you can affect, and which can affect you, and others, then it's an RPG. If your knowledge of the land only extends to where merchants, quest-givers, and dungeons are (because that's all that exists), then it's not an RPG.

 

An RPG is an interactive story. They should be a rich, complex, detailed tapestry of plot twists, environment, and excitement. What makes them fun is that, instead of just passively sitting there while the story is TOLD to you, you get to make decisions that can affect the story. You get to put YOUR mark on the story and, because of your actions and decisions, events may be altered, or even negated entirely. These don't have to be major, earth-shattering events, but should be things which will have real consequences for the locals, all depending on what YOU do, and the choices you make.

 

Do you remember the rich, complex, and detailed story of Baldur's Gate? Do you remember the story of Morrowind? Do you remember the story of Deus Ex, or Kotor, or some other game? Those are CRPGs. I don't remember the story of Pac-Man, because there wasn't one.

 

Well, now you know. And, you know, knowing is half the battle.

Do you enjoy alienating people with your confrontational and know-it-all attitude? Because that's precisely what you're doing. You're consistently arrogant and brash and it doesn't lend itself to good discussion.

As an aside, do you know that Corinthian's line here is actually a quote? This is a famous line from the old G.I. Joe cartoon, which was on tv oh, twenty, thirty years ago. I don't know if you're American or not but I believe his tone here was playful, not insulting.

 

"The show is remembered for its public service announcements, where one of the Joes would give an important safety lesson to a group of children engaged in risky behavior. These PSAs always ended with the famous exchange: "Now we know!" "And knowing is half the battle." "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.I._Joe

 

http://www.joeheadquarters.com/joeendings.shtml

http://www.emerchandise.com/product/TSGJO0011/s.ALXhP8h0

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/parenting/detail?blogid=29&entry_id=21095

[SilentScope001]

So does any Final Fantasy, Silent. The character decides where/how/what he's doing next. You just lead him there.

 

Ah, but the difference is that in FF, you are controlling your character by deciding HOW he trains. That's where things like. Skillpoints. That's how you pretend to be the character. But you do lose full control, yes.

 

Uh. Actually, IMHO, I don't consider FF to be an Roleplaying Game, I consider it to be a Rollplaying Game. The pure RPGs (according to me) are tabletop, like D&D, Shadowrun, PARANOIA, In Nomine, etc.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

* Half of your time should be spent reading game text/ interacting with NPCs/ conversing with NPCs, as opposed to fighting. Buying from merchants doesn't count.

Uh. Actually, IMHO, I don't consider FF to be an Roleplaying Game, I consider it to be a Rollplaying Game. The pure RPGs (according to me) are tabletop, like D&D, Shadowrun, PARANOIA, In Nomine, etc.

The two of you are considering the tabletop to be determinant. In fact, SS even admits that true RPGs for him are the ones you play with pen/cards/dice whatever and a bunch of mates by your side.

 

SS, I don't think that you would find ANY eastern so-called RPG to be one. All would fit on your "roll"playing game category. Actually, there's one game... It's not even an RPG, or so I'm told, it's Way of the Warrior: Samurai (Careful, I could be misspelling it). You can choose your actions, you'll read lots of scrolls, decide who to help and who to tear apart, in the end, all those points that Corin said to be essential to a RPG... Still, it isn't said to be one.

[Corinthian]

That IS my definition of a perfect RPG, Sabretooth. The more a game is like Fallout, the better an RPG it is.

[SilentScope001]

I finally took a look at the RPG gerne, and well, I think both Corinth and the general community is right. Take a look at these two definitions in the wiki:

 

A role-playing game (RPG; often roleplaying game) is a game in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters and collaboratively create or follow stories. Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterization, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines. Within the rules, players can improvise freely; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the games.

 

A computer role-playing game (CRPG[1]) is a broad video game genre originally developed for personal computers and other home computers. While technically not a separate genre, and sharing the same defining characteristics as console RPGs (also confusingly referred to as CRPGs) there are none the less general tendencies that make them distinct from RPGs on other platforms. The earliest CRPGs were inspired by early role-playing games, particularly Dungeons & Dragons, and attempted to provide a similar play experience.

 

...

 

Despite a spectrum of features and game styles, there are some elements common to the CRPG genre. Perhaps the most salient is that of the avatar, with its quantized characteristics that evolve over the course of the game, and take the place of the gamer's own skill in determining game outcomes. Another common element in CRPGs is a well-developed fictional setting.

 

Gameplay elements strongly associated with CRPGs, such as statistical character development, have been widely adapted to other video game genres. For example, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, an action game, uses resource statistics (abbreviated as "stats") to define a wide range of attributes including stamina, weapon proficiency, driving, lung capacity, and muscle tone, and uses numerous cutscenes and quests to advance the story. Warcraft III, a real-time strategy game, features heroes that can complete quests, obtain new equipment, and learn new abilities as they advance in level. Some players might say that what separates these from games traditionally termed CRPGs is the inclusion of material not normally considered part of CRPGs, more than the absence of content which often is. However, many CRPG fans would say that the exclusion of these games from the genre stems from a lack of decision in character advancement, one of the key aspects in most CRPGs.

 

So a game that may not be considered an RPG by Corinth is not an RPG, but it is a CRPG. Two totally different gernes.

 

SS, I don't think that you would find ANY eastern so-called RPG to be one. All would fit on your "roll"playing game category. Actually, there's one game... It's not even an RPG, or so I'm told, it's Way of the Warrior: Samurai (Careful, I could be misspelling it). You can choose your actions, you'll read lots of scrolls, decide who to help and who to tear apart, in the end, all those points that Corin said to be essential to a RPG... Still, it isn't said to be one.

 

I've actually read the strat guide of the game "Way of the Samurai". Another reason why I regret having the Xbox instead of the PS2.

 

Regardless, it is still an RPG, in the conventional sense because of this:

 

Each of the swords available in the game has several attributes which influence its effectiveness in battle. These attributes can be enhanced using special items found in the game, or by visiting the in game swordsmith.

 

You can upgrade your sword. Therefore, you are gaining levels, and gaining power. Sounds like typical power-gaming stuff to me.

 

But it does lead to a question I don't really have a good answer to: What's the difference between a 'true RPG' and a CYA?

[Taak Farst]

That IS my definition of a perfect RPG, Sabretooth. The more a game is like Fallout, the better an RPG it is.

Omg corinthian

~snipped~. Since when is there a rule that if you make an RPG it has to be like fallout, otherwise it aint an RPG? You are taking this way to personally, this is only a friggin game recommendation thread.

 

Don't call someone names, Wolv--it's against forum rules. If you have not read those, please do so now. If you have read them, please review them. Also--IM speak is confusing for our non-native English speakers--please use regular English.

[Jae Onasi]

Watch the tone, and watch the language, folks. Name-calling falls under the flaming category--don't do it. Cut the sarcasm--it doesn't add anything to the discussion except annoyance and/or hurt feelings.

 

The thread author asked for recommendations on SF RPGs, and this has digressed off topic. Please either return to the topic, or start a new thread if you wish to continue discussion about what makes a game an RPG as that is a completely different topic.

[Miltiades]

I found these articles on the history of RPGs to be enlightening about what can be defined as an RPG and at the same time as a guide to which RPGs are my style and which aren't:

 

The History of Computer Role-Playing Games Part 1: The Early Years (1980-1983)

The History of Computer Role-Playing Games Part 2: The Golden Age (1985-1993)

The History of Computer Role-Playing Games Part III: The Platinum and Modern Ages (1994-2004)

 

There should be some Sci-Fi RPGs listed in there. It's of course impossible to list every RPG in any article, but any worthy RPG will be listed. It also only goes to 2004, so recent games such as Mass Effect will of course not be listed.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

(Ouch, Miltiades. We already got scolded because our off-talk was perverting this topic purpose. But those articles looks promising, perhaps we should make another thread.)

[Miltiades]

Yeah, I know. But I thought the original poster can use this...

[DeadYorick]

Not really, no. Half-Life tends to be extremely linear, there are no side-plots, the dialogue is one-sided...Half Life is a pure FPS, although I'd say it still is closer to an RPG than Diablo.

 

You do know that Half life is pure FPS and Diablo is pure RPG. Half Life has no roleplaying elements whatsoever and Diablo is practically all RPG/action

 

Anyway if you want a mixture of RPG and FPS I would recommend Deus Ex since I just completed it. It has a great amount of options roleplaying wise and is a hard shooting game. It also has a great Cyberpunk plot/genre since it follows a lot of government conspiracies that could possibly happen in the future

 

Fallout got slightly boring for me as a game. Not as an RPG but as a game. Since it really didn't do much for me. Most of the Final Fantasy games were good as an RPG especially the 6th, 7th and 9th. Both the 6th and 7th were sci-fi fantasy

 

A lot of games have been mentioned already. If you want a more recent RPG get Mass Effect which included the voice of Jennifer Hale AKA Bastila

 

If you want to broaden your search a little you could go for an MMORPG. If you want to have a customizable ship and character you could go for Star wars Galaxies which does both and more.

 

Also to all the people who are hopelessly bickering about the difference between RPGS and what games are classified as them I would recommend creating another thread for this since this thread is just someone trying to get recommendations for a Sci-Fi RPG and then all of the sudden we are talking about whether Diablo is an RPG or not.

[jimbo32]

To get back to the original topic - sci-fi RPG's - I'd like to point out Freelancer. Although it doesn't fall under the "according-to-Hoyle" definition of a role-playing game, it does have an excellent story, is fairly easy to mod (including ships, bases and character appearance), and is very easy on the eyes considering that it's five years old. All of that and George Takei does one of the voices - what more could you ask for?

 

One of my all-time favorites.

[Corinthian]

Terracentral, I consider Diablo to be an Action Adventure game, although I do realize that nobody really cares. It doesn't matter.

 

There's Harbinger, which is a Diablo Clone, but I can't really recommend it for reasons that are obvious.

 

EVE Online is supposed to be very good, but I didn't have a good experience with it.

 

SWG is horrendous. I cannot suggest it in good conscience to anyone. The game has gone through almost as many revisions and retcons as the actual Expanded Universe, plus hardly anyone plays it anymore.

 

Fallout III comes out this Fall, but you'll probably want something sooner.

 

There's Star Ocean. I've played the first one, but I hated it. However, a lot of people say it's very good.

 

That's all I've got right now.