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[Maxstate]

Booyah!

 

Also an idea for improving the skill selection screen:

 

What if we made everything cost one single point, but make it so that you earn points at a much slower rate? If we are headed for where I think we're headed, this could very much simulate the feat/skill progression of modern D&D games. Also, if we'd let points progress naturally, but we allowed them to be spent only at critical " level up" times... how would you guys work with this? Would you prefer it over the current, more arcade-y system?

 

Also, just a reminder to ourselves:

 

gunner gameplay

We're going to have to make gameplay for gunners a bit more tactical than it currently is. I'm thinking more damage versus saber users that are running, and less mishap gain for when they stand or walk and shoot. Also, I'm sad to say that I'm honestly thinking about removing the screen shake and instead using it for other things like getting blown up or pushed as Tanq said. It just makes it impossible to shoot anyone at high mishap, even if they're right in front of you.

 

I want to have more long-term firefights where players aren't afraid of standing their ground for a while before they can move on. In our current situation, nobody cares about dying and everyone just rushes in as close as they can get to blast or saber people. I'd much rather have gameplay where your life in the game matters to the survival of your team. We've made some steps towards this by incorporating LMS gameplay, but there has to be another way. I have the feeling that people don't want to play LMS; most disconnect at the sight of a gametype switch to TFFA or CTF.

 

objective

I think the lack of a proper motive to stay alive is what OJP is suffering from. There is no actual reason to stay alive and help out your team. There is no penalty for dying and no bonus for staying alive. Teamkilling is rampant because you consider them players that you aren't allowed to kill instead of teammates that'll help you. A lot of our features were made with the idea of defense, guarding and bases in mind. This idea hasn't come to its full potential either since we only play the base maps, ALL. THE. TIME.

 

So I was thinking: what if we could convert a game mode into something with an objective, or add a cvar that'll enable an objective-type gamemode like we have for LMS? Thinking about the use of such a game mode, many simple ideas come to mind.

 

flag

What if a random player spawned with a flag, that he could carry in his inventory? Now imagine, if this same flag could be dropped on the floor in any part of the map, just like CTF when you get killed. Now imagine that once the flag is dropped, it cannot be picked up anymore. A timer starts ticking; the team of the flag carrier scrambles to set up defenses around the flag. The other team is supposed to capture this flag within the constraints of the timer by touching it, shooting and sabering anyone from the other team that tries to protect it.

 

This way, you could carry around the objective and place it anywhere you deem defendable on a map. The game really "starts" when the flag is dropped, and the counter starts ticking. Shields would be placed around the flag, sentries would be deployed and a team would guard it with their lives.

Biggest perk here would be that it'd work on any map, since much like the way you drop an ammo canister for your teammates to pick up in base, the flag could be dropped anywhere at anytime - on any map.

 

guard the force-sensitive

Same principle of guarding something, this time you guard an unarmed player that has had a massive boost in his force capabilities. Your team escorts him around for the duration of a timer (or to a specific location) and tries to defend him from the other team.

Think Jedi Master without a saber.

 

The possibilities of making something simple but great are endless, and in my opinion would be a good addition to the core gameplay of V1.3. Post your own ideas.

 

misc items

The forcefield needs to be tweaked. Period. It causes people's movements around it to lag, it's big, clunky and makes peoples' FPS make a nosedive to boot. If we really want to keep the forcefield as it is, we'll need to at least rework it so that it doesn't hinder gameplay as much as it does now. As an alternative I'm offering to make the effects for a cryo/sticky nade that'll hold players in place. Honestly, the ability to spawn a concrete wall would be better than the forcefield.

 

The flamethrower is going to need its own button as Carbon suggested yesterday. This shouldn't be so hard. It's going to be hard to find enough buttons on your keyboard though.

 

No real massive improvements, but I'd like to hear your ideas on these matters.

[UDM]

What about something like Defense of the Ancients? I totally hate DOTA and I fell asleep several times when playing that crap mod (or map, whichever perspective you want to see it), but I think it has a good concept. Basically, 2 sides - rebels vs Imperials. You and other players will be the "heroes". One side has to defend, the other attack. NPCs will keep respawning, and killing them and other heroes grants you XP

[[Alpha]-0mega-]

Aka Siege mode?

 

D&D Style 1 point cost gain.

 

I wouldn't recommend this, it would make it equally easy to get anything you want, whilst I think that some things should remain harder to gain than others.

 

Flag Mode:

 

Sounds nice, but it would be better if the attacking team won't spawn until you set up your base. Else we'll get Pre-Emptive strikes resulting in instaloss.

 

Protect the Vip: Nice as well, but do not give him *too* much power though.

Else he can just strafejump across the map till infinity and beyond and still not get caught.

[Viper32]

eh Max your idea is too RPish. plus without a server saving points or something it would be a pain each time you play to get things you want/need.

[The Unbeholden]

a skill tree, slash feat progression similiar to D&D??

 

leveling up??

 

interesting... I've always preferred a skill tree over what we currently have. A skill tree in that when you level up and choose a skill it branches out. In this way we always know that you've leveled up... and it will be extremely important to spend your points. In that every skill costs 1 point but it takes a while to get higher level skills cause you need to branch out to them..

 

I think its a great idea. I always thought OJP could use this idea.

[The Unbeholden]

hmmm heres an example http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=21&u=11523228

 

This will fit perfectly with OJP, finally me and Maxstate agree on something

[Maxstate]

Trust me dudes, I'm trying to make this as far away from RP as can be. The reason I posted it is so that you could give me your opinion on things here, but also so that you can improve on my idea a bit.

 

So, explain what's wrong and propose a better system. Brainstorm!

[Tanqexe]

I think we're letting the stigma of JA RPing taint the pros of a progressive feats acquisition approach, which has nothing to do with JA RPing. It'll work, and it'll be less of a hassle than the current system of respawning by /kill or jumping into lava, at the very least. I dunno about the 1 pt skill costs though.

 

Ideally a skill progression system would allow a person to become at least a "midrange level player character" by about half an hour, if you start at level 1 with a certain number of skill points. Of course the minimum starting level can be set like it currently is.

 

Amen to objective-based non-Siege gametypes. The "Defend the Flag" idea sounds interesting, but maybe it should be a little bigger deployable (a la a sentry), with a certain number of hit points (and maybe limited defensive capability?). Defending team can have a certain number of deployables but at the expense of long respawn time, while attacking team has no benefit of deployable sentries/force fields but halved respawn time. In addition to multiple deployable sentry and force fields per team member, perhaps we can re-introduce deployable ammo and health stations, except health stations have a limited recharge for health, DP, and FP - only the person with the deployable flag can deploy these.

 

I can see the "defend VIP" gametype working as kind of a post-Order 66 protect-the-fugitive kind of deal, but maybe split into two different gametypes: basic defend VIP (countdown timer) and defend transport, where a number of waypoints are randomly set on the map for your "caravan" to pass through (waypoint # can be a cvar). Defending team only has about 2 or 3 lives each, but with a higher starting skill point pool than the opposing team. They don't have a respawn delay. Attacking team has a respawn delay, but they have much higher number of lives per person (maybe infinite), but they have a much lower initial skill point pool and lower skill point gain. Got some other ideas here but still sorting them out.

 

There's a completely different gametype for our little side project (hush hush), but that'll need fleshing out as well.

 

 

I say we keep Force Field in, but tweak the shader a LOT so that it doesn't induce such a huge-ass lag. Cryo grenades would be a great addition anyway, but there would need to be a better counter to grenades in terms of Force TK. I can see cryos as something that may be easily abused if not coded properly.

 

....We need to tweak that dual pistol charge knockback some more. It's a lot stronger than I thought it was during testing, dunno why that's the case.

 

I'm wondering, perhaps Flamethrower should be a pure gunner-only or non-saber only weapon? Saberists don't really have much use for it since they've got close range crowd control well-covered. If that's the case, then we can assign the "use flamethrower" button to the saberthrow or "next saber style" buttons.

[Viper32]

is there a way to make a new gametype where specialization is even more prominant? Like you can buy shii-cho and one other saber type and still have all force power available, but the more saber stances you buy less and less levels or power are available to you. say i buy shii-cho, soresu, and djem so, then i can only gain level two light and dark powers. if i add makashi to that mix, then level one, juyo, only level 2 base powers, and finally niman or ataru, you can only get base powers at level 1.

 

not perfect for open FFA but would be an interesting alternate gametype. Perhaps call it Battle Master or something of that sort.

[madcatmach2]

The forcefield needs to be tweaked. Period. It causes people's movements around it to lag, it's big, clunky and makes peoples' FPS make a nosedive to boot. If we really want to keep the forcefield as it is, we'll need to at least rework it so that it doesn't hinder gameplay as much as it does now. As an alternative I'm offering to make the effects for a cryo/sticky nade that'll hold players in place. Honestly, the ability to spawn a concrete wall would be better than the forcefield.

does the forcefield really drian your FPS that much? cus frankly im getting anywhere from 60FPS to 120FPS depending on how well optimized the maps are.

[razorace]

I think the main issue with new gametypes is people tend to stick with the 1-2 that they really like and then loathe the rest.

 

I'd suggest testing out custom rule sets thru gentleman agreements to determine which gametypes rule/drool before fully implimenting them.

 

I like the "guard the force-sensitive" idea. Maybe it could be "Protect the Emperor"?

[The Unbeholden]

or "pin the tail on the Bantha"

[ZerooftheFour]

Booyah!

 

Also an idea for improving the skill selection screen:

 

What if we made everything cost one single point, but make it so that you earn points at a much slower rate? If we are headed for where I think we're headed, this could very much simulate the feat/skill progression of modern D&D games. Also, if we'd let points progress naturally, but we allowed them to be spent only at critical " level up" times... how would you guys work with this? Would you prefer it over the current, more arcade-y system?

 

I think what we have right now is ok, but I wouldn’t mind the 1 point idea. I just feel the 1 point idea leaves things to be simplistic, which in turn is nice also. But I feel that it could promote maybe some imbalance if a person can get the best force power at 3 points with little or no penalty to what he would be missing in comparison to a 2 4 8 idea. I also LOVE the level up idea. That’s perfect; because in order to get the points you spent you must die. They by =\= realism. So having a position in which you can level up and level down in a would be perfect. So maybe what could be implemented is to have the person that wants to level up or down, they must be in a meditative state for a certain time (20 seconds?) Then a button shows up which you can freely distribute points to where he wants them to be instead of dieing again. Just a thought, don’t know how it will work with the coding but we will see.

 

Also, just a reminder to ourselves:

 

gunner gameplay

We're going to have to make gameplay for gunners a bit more tactical than it currently is. I'm thinking more damage versus saber users that are running, and less mishap gain for when they stand or walk and shoot. Also, I'm sad to say that I'm honestly thinking about removing the screen shake and instead using it for other things like getting blown up or pushed as Tanq said. It just makes it impossible to shoot anyone at high mishap, even if they're right in front of you.

 

I agree, though I don’t think being pushed we would be a good call for screen shake, but getting blown up is. But then again if you get pushed you would get the about the same knock back as if it was a det, so I see the point.

 

I want to have more long-term firefights where players aren't afraid of standing their ground for a while before they can move on. In our current situation, nobody cares about dying and everyone just rushes in as close as they can get to blast or saber people. I'd much rather have gameplay where your life in the game matters to the survival of your team. We've made some steps towards this by incorporating LMS gameplay, but there has to be another way. I have the feeling that people don't want to play LMS; most disconnect at the sight of a gametype switch to TFFA or CTF.

 

I agree. That’s because our competition is MB2 and they all the JKA TFFA gamers… But it isn’t impossible to find non-rp gamers. However I think in order for this to work, you are going to have to appeal to both groups. RPers and TFFAers

 

objective

I think the lack of a proper motive to stay alive is what OJP is suffering from. There is no actual reason to stay alive and help out your team. There is no penalty for dying and no bonus for staying alive. Teamkilling is rampant because you consider them players that you aren't allowed to kill instead of teammates that'll help you. A lot of our features were made with the idea of defense, guarding and bases in mind. This idea hasn't come to its full potential either since we only play the base maps, ALL. THE. TIME.

 

So I was thinking: what if we could convert a game mode into something with an objective, or add a cvar that'll enable an objective-type gamemode like we have for LMS? Thinking about the use of such a game mode, many simple ideas come to mind.

 

A good motive is that people loose some points if they die or teamkill. I mean, I know I wouldn’t want to die or tk. But make points easier to gain then loose so that way people are not always pointless. lol Also if people loose points because of tking, well they wont be good tkers because they wont have the points to begin with. So I think it might work out…

 

flag

What if a random player spawned with a flag, that he could carry in his inventory? Now imagine, if this same flag could be dropped on the floor in any part of the map, just like CTF when you get killed. Now imagine that once the flag is dropped, it cannot be picked up anymore. A timer starts ticking; the team of the flag carrier scrambles to set up defenses around the flag. The other team is supposed to capture this flag within the constraints of the timer by touching it, shooting and sabering anyone from the other team that tries to protect it.

 

This way, you could carry around the objective and place it anywhere you deem defendable on a map. The game really "starts" when the flag is dropped, and the counter starts ticking. Shields would be placed around the flag, sentries would be deployed and a team would guard it with their lives.

Biggest perk here would be that it'd work on any map, since much like the way you drop an ammo canister for your teammates to pick up in base, the flag could be dropped anywhere at anytime - on any map.

 

Base Siege Korriban Crystal idea. I like. And it makes it even better if he can drop it and pass it on to a teammate better suited for running.

 

guard the force-sensitive

Same principle of guarding something, this time you guard an unarmed player that has had a massive boost in his force capabilities. Your team escorts him around for the duration of a timer (or to a specific location) and tries to defend him from the other team.

Think Jedi Master without a saber.

 

The possibilities of making something simple but great are endless, and in my opinion would be a good addition to the core gameplay of V1.3. Post your own ideas.

 

I think it is awesome, but do both teams get a force sensitive player or just 1? I think both teams having one would be cool because then it offers a two-fold objective. Offensive and Defense. I also think that players that die should spawn near the force sensitive.

 

misc items

The forcefield needs to be tweaked. Period. It causes people's movements around it to lag, it's big, clunky and makes peoples' FPS make a nosedive to boot. If we really want to keep the forcefield as it is, we'll need to at least rework it so that it doesn't hinder gameplay as much as it does now. As an alternative I'm offering to make the effects for a cryo/sticky nade that'll hold players in place. Honestly, the ability to spawn a concrete wall would be better than the forcefield.

 

The flamethrower is going to need its own button as Carbon suggested yesterday. This shouldn't be so hard. It's going to be hard to find enough buttons on your keyboard though.

 

No real massive improvements, but I'd like to hear your ideas on these matters.

 

I have a mod that makes the force field, less laggy, it just makes it a pure blue/red shield, and it hardly gives FPS lag at all, but the player movement is still choppy. I think what forcefeilds / sentries really need is a stationary spawn timer, but you have unlimited shields and sentries. So that way if you have time to lay shields/sentries you can help fortify your base, because Sentries and Forcefeilds are huge defensive tools in OJP. Another big mess with shields is that they are easy to spawn and you get one every time you die, and they are spammed to hell in a lot of servers. It’s a wonderful concept just way to overused.

 

All in all good ideas Maxstate. I approve 100%. I am just giving my thoughts for balance and realism.

[The Unbeholden]

Zero Hour,

 

Good idea about the meditate thing, theres a meditation stance that currently we have no use for. The meditation stance was replaced by the level 1 Heal stance.

 

So perhaps the meditation stance can be used for a "level up" button.

 

When you level up you can go into a meditation stance and choose your skills.

 

ok so Me, Maxstate, Tanquexe and Zero Hour are for it.

 

If anyone has any concerns about "getting powerful skills to quickly" then perhaps we can have limits. You have to be a certain level in order to get certain skills.

 

And expand on that, you can't get certain skills until you meet the prerequisites. Such as you cannot get level 3 saber defense unless you have 2 light saber forms. Or you cannot get level 3 force abilities until you have level 3 force sense and so on... the possibilities are endless.

 

And perhaps we should even split niman and dual sabers into 2 skills. You first have to get Niman in order to get Dual lightsabers.... and make staff a separate skill as well. This skill tree can really customize how we can get skills, thats the beauty of it.

[JRHockney*]

We're going to have to make gameplay for gunners a bit more tactical than it currently is. I'm thinking more damage versus saber users that are running, and less mishap gain for when they stand or walk and shoot. Also, I'm sad to say that I'm honestly thinking about removing the screen shake and instead using it for other things like getting blown up or pushed as Tanq said. It just makes it impossible to shoot anyone at high mishap, even if they're right in front of you.

 

Um...I agree that we should make it more tactical somehow, but I dont agree at all with either of those other ideas First of all, as a gunner I almost Never max out on mishap or even get that high on it unless I'm using a fast shooting heavy weapon (We can lower it for those if needed). Heck thats why I've suggested making jumping and rolling as a gunner increase mishap a bit. If the inaccuracy thing is bothering people, we'll reduce it more or make it start higher on the mishap meter. The screen shake was put in there in order to give players some idea why thier were becoming inaccurate and because I got alot of commments about how it doesnt look natural enough to simulate imbalance. if needed we can try and reduce that further too.

 

The other ideas are fine with me.

[UDM]

-0mega-;2480837']Aka Siege mode?

 

No lol. DOTA != Siege

 

It'll involve strategy elements as well, as you have to decide how to bypass enemy NPCs, and there'll be epic battles when NPCs and enemy heroes clash

[TheDestroyer99]

I wouldn't mind the guard the force-sensitive if you have a "blaster deflect" power that allows a force user to reflect blaster bolts (not sniper/rockets) w/ hand at cost of 1-2 fp, works like parry.

[Maxstate]

Um...I agree that we should make it more tactical somehow, but I dont agree at all with either of those other ideas First of all, as a gunner I almost Never max out on mishap or even get that high on it unless I'm using a fast shooting heavy weapon (We can lower it for those if needed). Heck thats why I've suggested making jumping and rolling as a gunner increase mishap a bit. If the inaccuracy thing is bothering people, we'll reduce it more or make it start higher on the mishap meter. The screen shake was put in there in order to give players some idea why thier were becoming inaccurate and because I got alot of commments about how it doesnt look natural enough to simulate imbalance. if needed we can try and reduce that further too.

 

The other ideas are fine with me.

 

I kindly disagree on the blaster mishap thing. Drat having to switch through 3 blasters to kill off a jedi is not so fun c/d

[razorace]

Um...I agree that we should make it more tactical somehow, but I dont agree at all with either of those other ideas First of all, as a gunner I almost Never max out on mishap or even get that high on it unless I'm using a fast shooting heavy weapon (We can lower it for those if needed). Heck thats why I've suggested making jumping and rolling as a gunner increase mishap a bit. If the inaccuracy thing is bothering people, we'll reduce it more or make it start higher on the mishap meter. The screen shake was put in there in order to give players some idea why thier were becoming inaccurate and because I got alot of commments about how it doesnt look natural enough to simulate imbalance. if needed we can try and reduce that further too.

 

The other ideas are fine with me.

Most games with tactical aiming, like Rainbow 6: Vegas, don't have screenshake when they fire their guns. Instead, the crosshairs get bigger to indicate bullet spray. Maybe we could do that.

[Ytmh]

Most games with tactical aiming, like Rainbow 6: Vegas, don't have screenshake when they fire their guns. Instead, the crosshairs get bigger to indicate bullet spray. Maybe we could do that.

 

That's a really good idea. I HATED the shaking effect, it was entirely unnecessary since if you tried actually firing you couldn't see where you were going... and it was just nauseating.

 

Plus it's not very realistic. I don't think people who run while shooting a weapon start shaking violently after they've lost some amount of aim accuracy!

[UDM]

That's what I feedbacked when it was first implemented. Didn't think it was a good idea, and I still don't

[UDM]

Btw what happened to the idea of base-creation? I thought someone was thinking about it some time ago

[razorace]

I think it wouldn't be practical without new maps. :|

[JRHockney*]

Most games with tactical aiming, like Rainbow 6: Vegas, don't have screenshake when they fire their guns. Instead, the crosshairs get bigger to indicate bullet spray. Maybe we could do that.

 

Yeah I suppose we could do that too if we can get it coded right. While the shaking effect is a bit annoying at times, it works and can be reduced more. I've heard several people say ingame "man this gun has alot of recoil!" that was the point before people where wondering why the hell their gun was firing off in different directions But whatever, if no one likes it we can try it this way.

[[Alpha]-0mega-]

There's more than enough tactical shooters that do include screenshake though, or at least ''recoil'' by moving the screen up with each bullet.

 

Like CounterStrike: Recoil & Spread. 2 things.

 

Whilst Rainbow Six: Vegas is a nice game, you must keep in mind it is also very arcade-y.

 

Hell, if they turned it into a rail shooter it would still pwn, whereas other games would simply become boring.

 

I do advocate a reduction of screenshake though. I always play as a pure jedi and use weapons that I scavenge, and sometimes weapons look like they have ubar screenshake when the weapon is a pathetic little blaster.