This is frightening

[Achilles]

The cold war is over man.

Unless, of course, it starts again. I am watching this back-and-forth over the missile defense system in Poland with great interest.

[M@RS]

except achilles never mentioned obama in his posts and they weren't off topic.

 

i actually find achilles to be personally unpleasant

 

"HAHA I POSTED AN OFF-TOPIC MORON COMMENT THEN SOMEONE RESPONDED HAHA".

 

if i may be so bold, i submit that people like you who ignore the facts and blindly believe in whatever their parents shove down their throats is what's killing this country.

 

anyhow, care to form an opinion on the thread's topic instead of constantly bitching about how "facts" and "science" don't jive with your narrow view of the world? or will it just be something along the lines of "god loves the us" that i can safely ignore?

 

I don't blindly believe anything my parents tell me, my dad says that if he ever tells me something that's against the Bible, to go to another church... I disagree with my dad on a couple things... You'll ignore them like every idiot does... They don't shove their beliefs down my throat, they let me choose... I became a christian, and they helped me along the way...

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the recording is fake, now I'm no fan of Obama... But people don't like authority, so they'll do anything to make the people in charge look bad...

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

Yes it's truly unthinkable that Obama is for nuclear disarmament I mean worst case a nuclear exchange will exterminate all life on the planet but whatever **** that hippie noise.

[SD Nihil]

ou missed the point entirely. To accuse another country of war-mongering when we are by far the largest transgressor is hypocrisy. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether they are being war-mongers or not.

 

According to the world or parts of it that hate us and again I know they would love to see us dead. Don't you want us dead. Say it. I know you do. We are the country that when things are going well no one ever thanks America. But once its going bad in the word that's always whre the finger is pointed first. Igrates, peacenicks, whiners, and those who just want to lie and manipulate all to see us dead because they are jelous of what we've accomplished in so short of a time.

 

Well if someone tries to destroy us and is about to we'll just palute our own country so if we can't have nothing you won't get it either. And if we are about to be shot because someone holds a trigger to our head and says you wil do and live the way we want then I'll pull the trigger for them because no one like that tells me what to do. And if they want to take my money and posessions I'll ingest them so you don't get nothing. So basically if we are going down we will say screw you we'll just make you have nothing to gain.

 

And when China and Russia are still there and we don't exist you'll be longing for the days we were around to keep them at bay. And if you think our ultimate goal is to take the world over then you don't know us. The way we spread freedom is not by war. Tht is when force is necessary to releave militant opprssion, and tyrany. But for non combative countries we do it through ideals and dipolomacy. This is what we do tha the Romans didn't do. And unlike the Romans we don't go around taking land and claiming it part of America. Iraq is its own country and soon will be theres very soon.

 

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin

 

The safety isn't temporary if we have the nukes to keep our liberty. So your saying we deserve no safety. Say it you want America to do die don't you. You kill us you doom your futures. We are the only thing standing between you and non existance and slavery by Russia, Iran, or China. We deserve safety because we have done for others so much and given so much. We don't care what people that don't like us think. We are right your wrong we are great other haters who can't appos us are weak and yet we aer good enough to overlook your hate and protect you.

 

Hardly. As Achilles pointed out, it would be dishonest in the extreme to point fingers at other nations while disregarding your own nation's less than peaceful past.

 

We don't care. I don't care. We've done a lot of good. All countries have parts of their history we are not proud of. Like abortion for example. Our bad past how about China's present where they are paluting the air and yet we get called the worst pouters when they kill Christians and treat those with disabilities with so little regard. So you want to talk about bad past there it is.

 

So take the sticks out of your own countries eyes before you judge us.

 

Do you speak for all of the American people?

 

I speak for the ones who are Americans. Not those corrupted and simply want handouts and are lazy pathetic thugs. I say those in washington that are advocating socialism should get thrown into Gitmo. To end socialism I say a little temporary dose of nationalism should be implimented. If comunistic countries do that to people apposing the ****ry and others to we should do for those who wish to appose freedom. For the Empire!

 

one should have the 'right' to have nukes, much less the right to actually use them.

 

Again we wouldn't have them if there were no countries that had them theemselves. But they won't disarm. Iran, China, and Russia won't ever get rid of their nukes. They'll lie about disarming. They are untrustwortyhy and evil. We are good they are bad. We are right they are wrong.

 

We have the nukes to deter those who will use thir nukes if we had none or were not around. We are protecting you.

 

It's natural to fear the strong - especially when they take part in needless displays of destruction (Hiroshima, Nagasaki).

 

It wsa right. It was necessary to save American and allied lives. If we didn't more lives of the allies and Americans would've been lost. You giuys never read. You drink the coolaid and you never really hear me.

 

The cold war is over man. Yeah, it's hard to believe but it was all over the news like seventeen years back.

 

Not the way Russia is acting. They want to take all of Georgia and Yukraine, and they would love to take back their empire. And other coutntries see Russia is acting like the way of old. The world sure does not like what they are doing and has kicked them out of the world market and Russia has withdrawn from NATO and the G8.

 

You simply se America as a beast that you want to make calm and then when we are calm you'll say NOW and the uuclear countries will kill us.

 

It's not as black-and-white as 'America is good and can be trusted with nukes, Russia is evil and cannot be trusted with nukes'. You have to consider their motives. If America saw a good reason to nuke anyone, they would do so, and if Russia doesn't have a good reason to nuke anyone, they won't. And as far as I can tell they have no reason to go and piss off the mightiest military and political superpower in the world. What the hell for? To start WWIII just for kicks?

 

Comon sense does the brain some good. Rusia like you said is evil and evil and untrustworthy people you can't trust to disarm. So you must always have nukes wheile they are that way. And no if you think we'd just look for a reason for nuking others for a reason the only one would be if they were to launch one of us. YOu are fear mongering. Yeah I can use your peacenick gay terms too.

 

Frankly, if you're afraid of being nuked the moment you lay down you nuclear arms, I think there may be a problem with your foreign policy.

 

PS. To be honest I'm more afraid of America starting WWIII right now than Russia, but maybe Obama will change that.

 

Our foreign policy. Say it you hat America and watn us to not exist. You'd love ofr us to die. Say it. And Russia is taking countries as their own. We don't. We freed and that country is theirs. We simply give them the power to rule themselves. And you are American hate mongerign. See hoow stupid and ridiclous the peacnick terms are. Quagmire, war mongering, wah America you can't defend yourself. But Russia can becaue we really just want to kill you America.

 

I don't blindly believe anything my parents tell me, my dad says that if he ever tells me something that's against the Bible, to go to another church... I disagree with my dad on a couple things... You'll ignore them like every idiot does... They don't shove their beliefs down my throat, they let me choose... I became a christian, and they helped me along the way...

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the recording is fake, now I'm no fan of Obama... But people don't like authority, so they'll do anything to make the people in charge look bad...

 

To deny facts is ignorant. No your not ignorant, but that statement of saying its fake is ignorant. I'm not suprised though you don't listen to your parents. I mean heck you don't listen to me and I'm simply offering comno sense. And he's probably not going to bother anyway like I should not with nay of you guys who continue to not har me, rad, listen, have comon sense, and choose to continue to drink the Obama coolaide.

 

You choose to deny reality and I wouldn't be suprised if your one of those who listens to MSNBC and like Keith Overmen. MSNBC is so pathetic they have to make up thir ratings and even then they can't even compete with Fox. How sad.

 

I bet when Obama does disarm us you'll jsut say that's fake too. And when missiles hit your house you'll just say ah its a hologram. Enough.

 

I will make a prediction you'll post after my post and you'll say stuff I've already answered, but say I didn't. I also predict you'll bash America some more. Like I said the only thing I'm using LF for for now on is for game realted questions.

[Achilles]

According to the world or parts of it that hate us and again I know they would love to see us dead. Don't you want us dead. Say it. I know you do.

Thanks for the false dichotomy, but I think I'll pass.

 

My preference would be that we stop sticking our nose where it doesn't belong. No need to wish death upon myself or my fellow citizens in order for that to happen (although there are some of you I wouldn't miss very much)

 

We are the country that when things are going well no one ever thanks America.

My response.

[Astor]

We don't care. I don't care. We've done a lot of good. All countries have parts of their history we are not proud of. Like abortion for example. Our bad past how about China's present where they are paluting the air and yet we get called the worst pouters when they kill Christians and treat those with disabilities with so little regard. So you want to talk about bad past there it is.

 

I wasn't referring to any of the things you've brought up - I was referring to the military endeavours that the US has pursued in the past, and that no one country is innocent of imperialism and conquest.

 

So take the sticks out of your own countries eyes before you judge us.

 

I'm not judging anyone. And I don't presume to speak for my country.

 

Again we wouldn't have them if there were no countries that had them theemselves. But they won't disarm. Iran, China, and Russia won't ever get rid of their nukes. They'll lie about disarming. They are untrustwortyhy and evil. We are good they are bad. We are right they are wrong.

 

So basically, you want America to be the only country in the world with nuclear weapons? Which would then mean that the US could hold the world to ransom? Also, Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons.

 

We have the nukes to deter those who will use thir nukes if we had none or were not around. We are protecting you.

 

Actually, Her Majesty's Government is protecting me, thank you very much.

 

EDIT: Also, having reread your post, I find a lot of it offensive and rude - just because you disagree with us doesn't give you the right insult us.

[tk102]

SD Nihil, calm down. You'll die young with that much hatred in your heart.

 

Did you do know that Kennedy, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2 all signed treaties with other countries to reduce or limit our stockpiles of nuclear weapons?

 

You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war.

-- Albert Einstein

 

I speak for the ones who are Americans.

We're all Americans, like it or not. And no, you don't speak for me.

[Litofsky]

Before I begin, SD, let me say that this is just plain rude. You're calling nearly every country but America "evil," and calling us "good." I find your posts extremely offensive, both as an American and a human being. Please, if you say you're not going to venture into political discussion any more, stick to your word, and don't come back multiple times.

 

And, for the sake of everything that you believe in! Stop referring to Americans as "WE." As a fellow American, I find it extremely offensive that you would dare group us together in these radical beliefs. Thank you.

 

Now, to clarify:

 

The safety isn't temporary if we have the nukes to keep our liberty. So your saying we deserve no safety. Say it you want America to do die don't you. You kill us you doom your futures. We are the only thing standing between you and non existance and slavery by Russia, Iran, or China. We deserve safety because we have done for others so much and given so much. We don't care what people that don't like us think. We are right your wrong we are great other haters who can't appos us are weak and yet we aer good enough to overlook your hate and protect you.

 

This, SD, in lamentable. Truly. You'd go so far as to say that Russia and China would enslave us?

 

 

So take the sticks out of your own countries eyes before you judge us.

Extend them the same courtesy, SD.

 

I speak for the ones who are Americans. Not those corrupted and simply want handouts and are lazy pathetic thugs. I say those in washington that are advocating socialism should get thrown into Gitmo. To end socialism I say a little temporary dose of nationalism should be implimented. If comunistic countries do that to people apposing the ****ry and others to we should do for those who wish to appose freedom. For the Empire!

 

Okay, I, frankly, as an American, am ashamed to call myself such because of this type of behavior. You, SD, are calling those that disagree with your views non-Americas, and those that do Americans? Well, seeing as you oppose socialism, we'll just take out all of our socialist practices (good-bye public education, police, the fire department, etc.). Employing socialist ideas does not make us un-American.

 

Again we wouldn't have them if there were no countries that had them theemselves. But they won't disarm. Iran, China, and Russia won't ever get rid of their nukes. They'll lie about disarming. They are untrustwortyhy and evil. We are good they are bad. We are right they are wrong.

What? Why do you make these unfounded claims? You're inserting opinions into an area devoted to factual debating. Please, don't try to portray us as the saviors of the world. Once more, as an American, I find it extremely offensive.

 

It wsa right. It was necessary to save American and allied lives. If we didn't more lives of the allies and Americans would've been lost. You giuys never read. You drink the coolaid and you never really hear me.

Please, tell that to the people who were bombed with nuclear weapons. Are you insinuating that American lives were worth more than Japanese lives?

 

 

Comon sense does the brain some good. Rusia like you said is evil and evil and untrustworthy people you can't trust to disarm. So you must always have nukes wheile they are that way. And no if you think we'd just look for a reason for nuking others for a reason the only one would be if they were to launch one of us. YOu are fear mongering. Yeah I can use your peacenick gay terms too.

1) I'm sure Russians would find that extremely rude and offensive.

2) We're fear mongering? I laugh at this statement, sir, for I propose that it is you who is "drinking coolaid."

3) Please don't use the word "gay" in that way. I'm sure that it is extremely offensive to homosexuals, and, to top it off, this is a PG-13 forum.

 

You choose to deny reality and I wouldn't be suprised if your one of those who listens to MSNBC and like Keith Overmen. MSNBC is so pathetic they have to make up thir ratings and even then they can't even compete with Fox. How sad.

 

I bet when Obama does disarm us you'll jsut say that's fake too. And when missiles hit your house you'll just say ah its a hologram. Enough.

 

I will make a prediction you'll post after my post and you'll say stuff I've already answered, but say I didn't. I also predict you'll bash America some more. Like I said the only thing I'm using LF for for now on is for game realted questions.

 

*suspiration*

 

[i nearly typed Garfield (in place of SD) on occasion, if guilt by association means anything]

[SD Nihil]

My preference would be that we stop sticking our nose where it doesn't belong. No need to wish death upon myself or my fellow citizens in order for that to happen (although there are some of you I wouldn't miss very much)

 

I don't think you speak for all Americans. I took your words and used it against you. And if we didn't help the world Nazis would be rulling, Osama's would be bombing more, Russia would own more of Europe, and the world would again be looking for our help because we would e able to help, but we didn't because you want to be selfish and not help the world.

 

Thanks for the false dichotomy, but I think I'll pass.

 

It's how the world sees us. But then again you see the world through your perspective which has lenses of liberal hate mongering of America. As for the youtube video since you guys say mine is fake I say yours is irrelivant and created by someone. And I didn't really look fully of it. It looks like a vid bashing us for wah we kill babies. That's how Saddam acted about the U.S. Hey if we kill a terrorist and we accidently kill a baby boo hoo. We don't mean to, but it happened. Aw we are so uncompasionant. How about those terrorists that strap bombs to babies and make them go BOOM. You are not calling them bad just us. Double standdard. Kinda like how you bash Palin's daughter for her daughter having a baby and then marrying the guy she had a child with. We say it wasn't her mother's fault because all you can do is teach, descipline, and love.

 

But yet when we got onto Clinton for having an inappropriate relationships in the Oval Office and such we just get yelled at theat we should leave him alone. Sounds like again a doulbe standard. Russia, China, and others can have nukes, but we can't. We should die I see you guys want it to happen.

 

I wasn't referring to any of the things you've brought up - I was referring to the military endeavours that the US has pursued in the past, and that no one country is innocent of imperialism and conquest.

 

I never said that. Maybe long time ago to expand into our land yes that's how any country gets its land by occupying. But we are not still being that way today like Russia who is still being Imperialistic. Our nukes are not imperialistic. They are there simply to prevent other imperialistic nations who would use them if we weren't there to say hey if you fire them on anyone we will fire on you. If no country besides us had them we wouldn't fire them because there would be no poit to fire them. Well they would still need to be there because the knowledge of how to make them is in the world now. We specifically made them to save ives. The quick end to the war with Japan was to save Allied and US lives.

 

I'm not judging anyone. And I don't presume to speak for my country.

 

Yes you were. With the Herosima and Nagasaki thing you said was not necessary or something. And I said it was to save allied and US lives. You were judging us and saying we shouldn't have done things. Your judging us wne you have countries like China who do far worse stuff even current to their people.

 

So I think others based on their perspective judge people based on their own ethics, morality(there definion of), and adgendas.

 

So basically, you want America to be the only country in the world with nuclear weapons? Which would then mean that the US could hold the world to ransom? Also, Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons.

 

World for ransom? lol. No. It would be to deter anyone from creating any future nukes. You seem to think we are some big bad invader bent on taking over the world. We are not Russia. Hey you own your country. We are not planning to take you over. Peaceful countries we have diplomacy, free trade, and if there is one that wants us to leave them alone we do so. But if they are hurting their own people the U.N. we use first because war is the last thing we want. Diplomacy first, sanctions second, warnings third, action last. We are not war first. No one wants to up and risk lives unless it is necessary in our eyes. People just don't seem to get that we are not like any other country in the past. They just don't get the US. They just have all of this past history of countries that were oppressive and just can't believe America would simply do good for others and not expect a tahnk you in return.

 

Actually, Her Majesty's Government is protecting me, thank you very much.

 

EDIT: Also, having reread your post, I find a lot of it offensive and rude - just because you disagree with us doesn't give you the right insult us.

 

Exactly. If another country invaded you we'd defend you. Your welcome. And yeah I'll try to tone it down. I'm just so use to the heated arguemtns liberals and conservatives had in Kavar's Corner. Things got so heated that's why its temporarily shut down as for other reasons too. Sorry I didn't mean to offend you.

 

Remember this is just a debate. I don't hate any of you. I don't think you hate me either. This is jsut politics. It's not everything. I just hope Obama doesn't disarm us because with all the countries who are unwilling to disarm, or will lie about it we just can't take our hand off of having nukes. And since we made nukes that knowledge of knowing how to make nukes is in the world so we should have them to always deter gusy who would use them. We'd never use them unles somne fired them on another. We not going to just fire someone for conquest. That's Russia who would be so bold to do that.

 

Did you do know that Kennedy, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2 all signed treaties with other countries to reduce or limit our stockpiles of nuclear weapons?

 

Right now is not a good time when you have such an unpridictiable nation like Russia going back to the days of conquest of the world. Yes then it was fine, but now it isn't. Yes you want to slowly both sides lower your weapons, but to have us lower it first too quickly while the other guys still have a gun means we'd die. So you want to slowly both lower their guns and at the same time both toss them away. But again we are teh responsible nation that won't use nukes for conquest.

 

We will still have some nuke or something even afte all disarm I think we should because the world of the past has such history of conquest that we need to keep in check. We are not like nations before us. We want all nations to be soverign, to treat others to be hiumane, we want nations to be not tyranical, and peaceful. Yes that is putting our idology on ohters, but we believe based on our idology and morality, and ethics, and adgenda that we are right to help others. To do the right thing and to know right and wrong to see what we can do to e a nation that helps others and does not seek a thank you in return although it is appreciated.

 

People don't seem to understand why we'd do it and not want someont in return. Same thing with those of faith they think the person of faith is doin something good simply for some kind of gain. Nope. We do it because its the right thing to do. Its not w warldly way of being. But it is a humane and good thing to give lives, aid, money freely for all man kind and service to it.

 

We're all Americans, like it or not. And no, you don't speak for me.

 

Well its jsut my definition of being a patriot. Yes national pride too, but also to be a nation that supports the country's decision and to see your country in a good light. I'm sure Russia sees what they do as right in their way of thinking. We simply believe that they ae all about conquest and we are not going to use nukes unless someone were to fire a nuke at us or others. No one is going to risk WWIII. But Russia if we had no nukes since we are a threat to their adgenda if we had no nueks would see it as an oppertunity to take us out for good. And it wouldn't harm the world it would just destroy us and our land mass.

 

And the world would be without a free country.And if a country like Russia had nukes freedom is a threat to them so if a new flegling country rose from the ashes they'd nuke them because that is how they would act. Either that or they'd send their overwhelming military to end them. Point is they wouldn't stand a chance. But with us around freedom has achance against Russia and such countries. Not as to have war, but to let them know we are here and we will protect freedom in the world. We will be here and by that alone with nukes that is a deterent from you to do wrong doing to other inocent nations.

 

Before I begin, SD, let me say that this is just plain rude. You're calling nearly every country but America "evil," and calling us "good." I find your posts extremely offensive, both as an American and a human being. Please, if you say you're not going to venture into political discussion any more, stick to your word, and don't come back multiple times.

 

I never siad ever nation. I said China, Iran, and Russia are evil. And countries that engage in the behavior like them like Norh Korea are evil too.

 

Before I begin, SD, let me say that this is just plain rude. You're calling nearly every country but America "evil," and calling us "good." I find your posts extremely offensive, both as an American and a human being. Please, if you say you're not going to venture into political discussion any more, stick to your word, and don't come back multiple times.

 

And, for the sake of everything that you believe in! Stop referring to Americans as "WE." As a fellow American, I find it extremely offensive that you would dare group us together in these radical beliefs. Thank you.

 

Now, to clarify:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post

The safety isn't temporary if we have the nukes to keep our liberty. So your saying we deserve no safety. Say it you want America to do die don't you. You kill us you doom your futures. We are the only thing standing between you and non existance and slavery by Russia, Iran, or China. We deserve safety because we have done for others so much and given so much. We don't care what people that don't like us think. We are right your wrong we are great other haters who can't appos us are weak and yet we aer good enough to overlook your hate and protect you.

This, SD, in lamentable. Truly. You'd go so far as to say that Russia and China would enslave us?

 

If they could they would. We've kinda been enslaved by China already in that everything is made well mostly made in China. So much stuff is made over there that we wouldn't be able to really appose them much on stuff because they make most of our stuff so in that way we've enslaved ourselves. And to trade with such an inhumane country I've always disagreed with. What is says of our morality when you trade with such a country that does the same things we appose.

 

Extend them the same courtesy, SD.

 

Again countries like Russia, Iran, and China can't compain about our country when they are doing much worse stuff. Countries responsible for past conquest can't compain about our past conquest when they've ben guilty of it too. Especialy since in thoday's world we don't go on conquest, but Russia does.

 

of this type of behavior. You, SD, are calling those that disagree with your views non-Americas, and those that do Americans? Well, seeing as you oppose socialism, we'll just take out all of our socialist practices (good-bye public education, police, the fire department, etc.). Employing socialist ideas does not make us un-American.

 

We are a society with capitalsim and freedom. Freedom can't survie without capitalism, and capitalism can't survie without freedom. Socialism is taking money from one clas of people and givin it to another class. They say the middle class is getting smaller. That's because those that were middle class are chaning class. Which way are they going...hum either rich or poor class. Giving money to lower class doesn't work. Trickle down economics works due to history and seeing it work. But yet public schools want to rewrite history books and teach American history differently and skew the truth of history. There is no such thing as trickle up economics. If there are more rich people they can hire more, buy more, and so on and so forth.

 

Your only poor if you allow yourself in AMerica. My father lived in a garage at a time, but worked at differnt jobs and retired as a retired Lt. Col and retired Nurse Anesthetist. And he retired a multi miionare with investements in stocks, bonds, and money market and infact his lefestyle has not really been effected in even this economy. So in America you can make it if you try.

 

You can't tell me you can't walk down the street and get a job. If you live in a ba community leave that community. Bum a ride if you have no car. Live out of your car if yoru dirt poor.

 

If my father lived in a garage and had little to later having much you can do it too. You don't need a hand out. You need a hand up. Help yourself. Handouts will not encourage you to work, invent, or do that because that discourages self determiniation and doing better.

 

Universal Medicine for example the pay ou get and advancement is ultimatly determined by the government. So you can have a set standard of care that no matter how well you do you won't get more omney unless the government says you should ultimately. Also, care is determined by value. If you are more valueable to society you get care first rather than someone who has less value. It disenfranchises those who have less value in that society. Plus its a line system too of people at times too if each have same value. Who was in line first gets care no matter of the condition. If you have a broken leg and your in line first youg get care first. But behind you is a guy who needs a valve transplanet, but he can't get it until he moves up the line.

 

Now Private Health Care system we take emergencies right then no matter if we get paid back or not. We are humane unlike UHC. We will take you no mater what the value of you to society. I have Goldenhar's sydrom and I'm very satisfied with our health care system.

 

Public shcools have less competition. They are a business. Having private schools cometing with them causes them to improve liek any othe business. And it woudl do good for schools who only want to teach their students to test well on a test so they look good on paper. They will even tell you the ansers on a practice test and you get the real test and its mostly the same. So all you learned was to memorize answers.

 

It doesn't prepare you well for life. Heck they don't teach you good structure for College English and such. They jsut say write, but don't tell you about Thesis statements, intors, 1-3 paragraphs, conclustions, etc.

 

And so they discourage private schools and home schooling because it takes money away from them and shows people there is an alternative to government.

 

And many from Canada come down here to America becaus they know they'll get care quicker by the way because we are also being encouraged by the fact we can advance with pay and ourselves. The only limiter to how much you can have in life is not the governemt, but yourself.

 

What? Why do you make these unfounded claims? You're inserting opinions into an area devoted to factual debating. Please, don't try to portray us as the saviors of the world. Once more, as an American, I find it extremely offensive.

 

Tjat

s because you have your idology of America. I happen to believe that if we had nukes and no one did we woulnd't use them unless someone fired on us or made one to fire on another. But then again I guess its part of my national pride that makes me feel we wouldn't. But you have your view that w'd use them for little reason like Russia who is tyranical.

 

Please, tell that to the people who were bombed with nuclear weapons. Are you insinuating that American lives were worth more than Japanese lives?

 

Japan had allied themselves with Hitler one who did not have value for life. And by doing this nukes we saved more alied nations lives and our lives too. So by number of lives it saved in number more lives yes. Japan today is now an ally too. And it is great that in the past thye kicked our butts in economics. And that is such a great treat when you helped the country like that rebuild and later they become a great economic parner and friend and even kick your butt in economy. We are proud of Japan. And we are glad we helped them become so great.

 

2) We're fear mongering? I laugh at this statement, sir, for I propose that it is you who is "drinking coolaid."

 

Then saying to be consistant with your idology you would be fear mongering to say your afraid America will start WWIII. But we are having a healthy fear to believe that if we have no nukes a tyranical nation like Russia would wipe us out with their nukes because freedom is a theat to their adgenda and we must be wiped out. They are war mongering because of their current war path of taking Georgia as part of themselves and looking towards Ukraine as a new target. They've put missiles and want to take the main or one of the main junctions of the oil pipelines of the world. And this is why we need to mine and drill because if they take that oil while we are still reliant on them then they have us enslaved there because we'd still be reliant on foreign oil.

 

So the sad thing is OB wil not drill or mine when its so necessary to do so. Screw the caraboo. Yes our lives are more valuable than a carabo's life. And I'd rather kil an animal to save our lives and I woudlnt' care to listen to some environmental extremests.

 

There are so many thigs we could be doing like wind power. But yet people have a problem with the fact it kills bats. Yes I've delved into other topics, but your comments I had to answer to and expand on the topic of nuks a little. Topics can branch off at times. Not a big deal I don't think.

[Achilles]

I don't think you speak for all Americans.

I never said that I did. It would be an odd assertion for me to make, considering how critical I am of many of the people I share a country with

 

I took your words and used it against you.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

And if we didn't help the world Nazis would be rulling, Osama's would be bombing more, Russia would own more of Europe, and the world would again be looking for our help because we would e able to help, but we didn't because you want to be selfish and not help the world.

Wow. Equivocate much?

 

Joining the Allies to defeat the Axis was one thing. Allowing ourselves to get wrapped up into an escalating conflict with the U.S.S.R. is another. The blowback that is Osama bin Laden is yet another.

 

The first was a cause worthy of our attention, but probably avoidable. The second was probably avoidable as well. The third was almost entirely our doing.

 

You're welcome to do whatever you'd like, but I'd recommend not making the mistake of viewing all conflicts as equal and our involvment as noble.

 

It's how the world sees us.

Slow down, tiny dancer, you're arguing yourself in circles. First you were putting words in my mouth. Now you're making a completely different assertion. If you can't even keep track of your own arguments, it might be time to take a break.

 

But then again you see the world through your perspective which has lenses of liberal hate mongering of America.

Wait, I thought liberals were flag-burning, tree-hugging, peace-niks? I see the world through my perspective which allows me to not view every action my government takes as beyond reproach. Mindlessly accepting everything the Fox News propaganda machine tells me is not patriotism.

 

As for the youtube video since you guys say mine is fake I say yours is irrelivant and created by someone.

Wow, you mean YT clips don't make themselves?! My parents have a lot of explaining to do!

 

And I didn't really look fully of it. It looks like a vid bashing us for wah we kill babies.

You obviously didn't watch any of it.

 

That's how Saddam acted about the U.S. Hey if we kill a terrorist and we accidently kill a baby boo hoo. We don't mean to, but it happened. Aw we are so uncompasionant. How about those terrorists that strap bombs to babies and make them go BOOM. You are not calling them bad just us. Double standdard.

Repeating this line of reasoning isn't going to make it any less of a fail sandwich.

 

What other countries do or do not do has absolutely nothing to do with our hypocrisy.

 

Kinda like how you bash Palin's daughter for her daughter having a baby and then marrying the guy she had a child with. We say it wasn't her mother's fault because all you can do is teach, descipline, and love.

Wut?

 

But yet when we got onto Clinton for having an inappropriate relationships in the Oval Office and such we just get yelled at theat we should leave him alone. Sounds like again a doulbe standard. Russia, China, and others can have nukes, but we can't. We should die I see you guys want it to happen.

"No one died when Clinton lied."

[Tyrion]

So the sad thing is OB wil not drill or mine when its so necessary to do so. Screw the caraboo. Yes our lives are more valuable than a carabo's life. And I'd rather kil an animal to save our lives and I woudlnt' care to listen to some environmental extremests..

 

If nothing else, we should probably at least know how to spell the name of the creature we're going to kill.

 

Well its jsut my definition of being a patriot. Yes national pride too, but also to be a nation that supports the country's decision and to see your country in a good light.

 

My definition of a patriot is someone who loves their country enough to see it prosper. This entails support for when the country acts rightly or criticism for when the country acts wrongly. However, blind acceptance of the country for what it is leads only to stagnation.

[Astor]

If no country besides us had them we wouldn't fire them because there would be no poit to fire them. Well they would still need to be there because the knowledge of how to make them is in the world now. We specifically made them to save ives. The quick end to the war with Japan was to save Allied and US lives.

 

Again, we get to 'We should be the only people who have nuclear weapons. because no one can be trusted with them. I find that argument reprehensible, and it shows the arrogance and childishness of your position.

 

No-one should have them. Nuclear disarmament is a step towards that.

 

And you don't make a bomb that can wipe out a city, kill over 300,000 people and irradiate hundreds of thousands more, rendering a city uninhabitable for years to 'save lives'.

 

Yes you were. With the Herosima and Nagasaki thing you said was not necessary or something. And I said it was to save allied and US lives. You were judging us and saying we shouldn't have done things. Your judging us wne you have countries like China who do far worse stuff even current to their people.

 

Have they ever dropped a nuclear bomb on people? No.

 

Exactly. If another country invaded you we'd defend you.

 

But another country isn't going to invade us. We haven't hosted a successful invasion for 1,000 years. And I wasn't thanking you, or America - I was pointing out that I don't owe America anything.

 

We will still have some nuke or something even afte all disarm I think we should because the world of the past has such history of conquest that we need to keep in check. We are not like nations before us. We want all nations to be soverign, to treat others to be hiumane, we want nations to be not tyranical, and peaceful.

 

Do that, and American becomes the Tyrant.

 

And the world would be without a free country.[/Quote]

 

Excuse me? Great Britain, France, Germany, The Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Canada, Australia, Japan, New Zealand, and many others are 'free' countries.

 

If they could they would. We've kinda been enslaved by China already in that everything is made well mostly made in China. So much stuff is made over there that we wouldn't be able to really appose them much on stuff because they make most of our stuff so in that way we've enslaved ourselves. And to trade with such an inhumane country I've always disagreed with. What is says of our morality when you trade with such a country that does the same things we appose.[/Quote]

 

That's not enslavement. That's outsourcing.

 

We are a society with capitalsim and freedom. Freedom can't survie without capitalism, and capitalism can't survie without freedom.[/Quote]

 

I severely doubt that.

 

 

Universal Medicine for example the pay ou get and advancement is ultimatly determined by the government. So you can have a set standard of care that no matter how well you do you won't get more omney unless the government says you should ultimately. Also, care is determined by value. If you are more valueable to society you get care first rather than someone who has less value. It disenfranchises those who have less value in that society. Plus its a line system too of people at times too if each have same value. Who was in line first gets care no matter of the condition. If you have a broken leg and your in line first youg get care first. But behind you is a guy who needs a valve transplanet, but he can't get it until he moves up the line.

 

Please see all my responses to your previous rants in the UHC thread in Kavars.

 

Now Private Health Care system we take emergencies right then no matter if we get paid back or not. We are humane unlike UHC. We will take you no mater what the value of you to society. I have Goldenhar's sydrom and I'm very satisfied with our health care system.

 

And that is exactly the same with Universal Healthcare. I've said all I want to say on that matter before, and I don't have the inclination to continue beating a dead horse.

[SD Nihil]

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

I sleep at night knowing that if our government tries to disarm our nukes to where we dont have any to deter others with or try to gun collect that we'll just shoot them, have a revolution, cue the governement, line up the birocrates and pop them all in order of who did the most damage based on what we think first. And if people of opposite race start getting all whiny tha if you do anything against Obama you must be racist wah. If they want to do that okay I guess a revolution will be a civil war.

 

I mean we yes had slavery and junk in the past and now a black man can be president and they still want to whin after that. I think they just like using race as a way to get stuff out of people. As a half blind individual a black girl asked me why I didn't use my blindness to get stuff and to get back at people by saying they are just being prejedice. I say because I have the morality not to do that. It goes along with the thing where you see people spill coffee on themselves and they blame it on the place wher they bought it. When in rality the person who had the coffe spilt on them was their own fault. No one had a gun to their head and said spill it on yourself. No matter if they accidentally spilt it on themselves it was their fault. People just want to blame everyone else for their problems except themselves. Some people of other race do the same to blame others for their laziness.

 

Same deal with the world. They want to blame America for all the problems in the world when in reality they should realize we did a lot for the world at our expense and they just whine and blame us. If we weren't such a moral country we'd say we won't come to help you because your not having the right attitude. But we overlook your whining because we are a good nation.

 

I do sleep like a log with not a care in the world about anything at all. I sleep soundly knowing that our nukes can take out anyone that would be stupid enough to fire on us with them. If we go down we'll take them with us. And if the pencil pushers in Washington cross that line of wanting to disarm the country and its citizens to where we have no nukes or guns we'll take them out. I can see why countries don't like us because of our athority either. Kids theese days treat elders so badly because they have little respect for people of experience.

 

Same thing with cops. People that disrepsect athority are usually the ones who try and run, resist, or try to shoot the cop. But yeah that's this present ingrateful, pants hanging off their knees, wed smoking generatin. Now I'm not saying that your part of that. But much of the present generation of kids these days fit that description.

 

Yup I sleep and know its not my fault that there is Dar 4 going on. It's the fault of that corrupt country and its leaders who can't take care of the problem or won't. I guess that makes me a monster that I sleep and don't worry about stuff like that at night. lol. But it seems always in history that the big dog country people seem to want to bring down. Again its that unrespect of athority. Alaxander the great, Roman Empire, etc. Not saying those civilizations are without wrongs, I think over time the great world powers have become more humae with each rise and fall of a empire.

 

The world is an interesting wild thing that needs to be calmed, peaceful, and in line with each other. They need control and to be taught this. We save those who are oppressed, spread our ideals through diplomacy, and of course take care of our interests as do other countries. We are the ones who police the world. Oh that's right a large part of the current generation does not respect cops so why would they respect the world's police force (us).

 

Joining the Allies to defeat the Axis was one thing. Allowing ourselves to get wrapped up into an escalating conflict with the U.S.S.R. is another. The blowback that is Osama bin Laden is yet another.

 

The first was a cause worthy of our attention, but probably avoidable. The second was probably avoidable as well. The third was almost entirely our doing.

 

You're welcome to do whatever you'd like, but I'd recommend not making the mistake of viewing all conflicts as equal and our involvment as noble.

 

We are not the ones trying to make a conflict with Russia. They are making conflict with the world or soon will. Right now they've haulted that for the monent int that the world kicked them out of the world market. But for us they want to stir it up with puttig in jammers and missiles to try and counter ours, and try to hold the pipe junction in Georgia.

 

So it seems to me they are bing the aggressive nation in this situation. You may say its because of our misile system pointed at them. It wouldn't be if they were trust worthy.

 

You may say but what if China had missiles pointed at us. Yes we'd have some pointed at us, but if they had missiles not pointed at us we'd simply see theirs as a defense in that it is not pointed at us.

 

As for the world wrs. Its seems to me since you said probably avoidable with concern to our involvement that you feel we are not necessary in tha conflict. Yes maybe if we had not intervened Rusia wouldn've done the job, but who knows. It was also not only did we intervene to save more of their lives, again help out and police the world, but also because if they were allowed to take territory of Europe then they'd be in a position to control more. And in that they are up to no good even today are are evil and untrustworthy that would not be good that they are bigger than wat they currently are.

 

I'm just curious. What wars were we necessary to be involved in? Becaue it just sems to me you feel hat even with the most important wars you feel we are not needed.

 

Wait, I thought liberals were flag-burning, tree-hugging, peace-niks? I see the world through my perspective which allows me to not view every action my government takes as beyond reproach. Mindlessly accepting everything the Fox News propaganda machine tells me is not patriotism.

 

In general the environmental extremest are hte tree hugers who don't see thta you do need to clear away the dead brush because if the dead brush is there fire can spread from tree to tree because the brush connected to tree to tree. They don't understand cutting down dead trees prevents fires from spreading. It's like with the bailout. We want them not to collapse. But the dead corrupt parts I say let em burn. Don't save GM or Cyrysler. Let em burn for their over barrowing and bad practices. Let the parts of the forest that did the wrong things burn as a lesson to others to not repeat the past of wrongful business practices.

 

I live and die by my morals. And I say die meaning even if it kills me. If I overbarrow and fail then its my fault and I shall burn too to be consistant.

 

Now liberals are the ones who in general don't want to go to war ever, or pull out when it gets tough. Peaceniks kinda, but there are differences of course. They don't always march in the streets hilding picket signs and bashing our soldiers.

 

My father when he returned from Vetnam had poo thrown at him. But he and the soldiers were told not to fight back. How awful of those peacenicks to throw that at him. How dar they. How dare the peacenicks protesting in California about the ban on gay marriage and proposition eight. Majority of blacks voted against gay marriage in Califoria. But rather than the protesters proteting infront of NAACP buildings or something related they chose a church of Rick Warren who had nothing to do with it.

 

They did this becaus it would be politicaly incorrect to protest any one of color. So they go after another group like those of Christian faith who didn't become the overwhelming vote against the ban. Blacks were the deciding vote in it.

 

Wow, you mean YT clips don't make themselves?! My parents have a lot of explaining to do!

 

I'm sayng there is a difference between my vid which was actual audio of Obama and yours that looked like something someone put together.

 

You obviously didn't watch any of it.

 

Well I could only tell that part of it. Like I sai I'm half blind and have a hard time seeing. So well you can tell me what was on that vid if yo want.

 

Repeating this line of reasoning isn't going to make it any less of a fail sandwich.

 

What other countries do or do not do has absolutely nothing to do with our hypocrisy.

 

You amuse me young one. It is not a failure. We will leave Iraq victorious.Mosule, Anbar, and all of S. Iraq are now mostly at peace and under full control of the Iraqies. But its hard to know that if you listen to left wing media who has the adgenda of reporting half of the story. It's like how they give negetive coverage of McCain and give mostly good for Obama. They are very biased. Fox is balanced and has both liberals and conservatives on. Even O'Reily didn't favor either OB or McCain. Equal coverage and critism for both. They are fair and balanced.

 

And every night MSNBC gets owned in their ratings. Even when the Democrate National Convention was going on they owned MSNBC easily. So easily MSNBC had to put up false ratings. Sad. They Fox bash McCain equally for his views not being core conservative and for not supporting Palin against the cowards in McCain's campaign who have made up false rumros about her. McCain is a coward to not support her.

 

If he was truly for bringing out those that were corrupt and making their names famous he should do the same for those annoymous individuals who are bashing Palin. He's the biggest coward. I say h should go since he's all about reaching across hte isle. He should just go across the isle and sit on the democrates area anyway since he's more democrate thean conservative anyway. Lebermen should just not even campaign for the democrates since they are so willing to throw him under the bus for supporting McCain. They want to take his chairmen seat away.

 

Vengful whining liberal party. It would be great if lebermen then switched to the Republicans as a screw you to the liberals.

 

And in case you were to say you'd like that SD so your side would get people. Na. I said McCai should go dem and Leberman should go conservative. So dems and reps would still have sme number.

 

Leberman is independent yes, but yeah I guess that would mean your side would ge one more. See I'm so fair I'm unfair to my own party.

 

Wut?

 

I was showing double standards and comparisons.

 

"No one died when Clinton lied."

 

Neithe did they with the Bristal thing. Again I was showing the double standard people had with Palin's daughter, but also didn't want us to get on to Clinton for his imoral in the Oval Office stuff with interns. I guess your no one dying is the fact you mean Iraq. Bush didn't lie. We went on intel from other countries, ours(intel agency was deminished due to Cltionton cutting funding for those. He didn't like our intelligence or those thypes of agencies. Neither did he like our military. That's why he cut so much funding on it. Oh that's right Obama is going to do that oo. Not suprised either), and the fact that Saddma broke our agreemtnet by not allowing inspectors in, defying us even with sanctions, warnings, and so war was the last resort.

 

It's like a child who brought a knife to schol and threatened another kid. The threatened kid would be Kuwaitt. And the kid with the knife would be Iraq. So we the US, the parent, take the knief away from the kid(Iraq). We tell him he can't go near the kid he threatened(Kuwaitt).

 

The kid agrees(Iraq. He allows us to check in hi room for knives because w said we would be doing so. For a time he complys. Later he tells us we can't look under his bed. Eventually we say he better let us look under his bed. The child kicks us out of their room.

 

So we put them on restriction(sanctions), warn them we'll just break the door down, and in both cases the child just says no we can't come in. Same with Iraq they do't want us to come in. So the only thing left is to come in.

 

If you agreed to this type of aproach to the child you'd to be consistant agree with it with Iraq.

 

It is regretable that soldiers die in war, but that's what they do is die and serve their country. They are soldiers put in arms way. Tht's their job.

 

If nothing else, we should probably at least know how to spell the name of the creature we're going to kill.

 

I'm sure those that would would know how to spell it better. It's not like I don't know how to spell. It's just I don't care. As long as you understand me it really doesn't matter to me. Plus it's kinda nit picky anyway to me. This conversation really doesn't take much effort for me to care all that much.

 

Again, we get to 'We should be the only people who have nuclear weapons. because no one can be trusted with them. I find that argument reprehensible, and it shows the arrogance and childishness of your position.

 

That's because we are not irresponsible, evil, and liars, and doing junk like Russia. Arogant this or that. I really care not for the European view that hates America.

 

I think it goes along with the opinion people have about our military. Hollywood and the Europe generally have. I mean look at for example Mars attack which was a stupid move, and In the Army now. In both cases the Sergent and General were all musle bound and gruff. Totally a sterotype.

 

And you don't make a bomb that can wipe out a city, kill over 300,000 people and irradiate hundreds of thousands more, rendering a city uninhabitable for years to 'save lives'.

 

Well it saved many lives rather than having to send soldiers to those two islands we sent the nukes to. It saved allied and US lives. And we have them still not to fire, but as a deterent against those that would. Because we are responsible. Russia, Iran, and China are not I believe.

 

I can't speak for every American and neither can you. Again it's all my opinion and yours. Our minds are made up. I have my view of national pride and of America nad you do as well of your view. Your never going to change how I think, feel, or act. Nor should I of you, or anyone by corersion, bargining, or threatening. I'm not saying you've done it, but I'm just saying a general statement.

 

Have they ever dropped a nuclear bomb on people? No.

 

Thankfully due to ours being the deterent. Having no nukes to defend yourself shows weakness. And the world does not repect weakness. Nor do our enemies.

 

But another country isn't going to invade us. We haven't hosted a successful invasion for 1,000 years. And I wasn't thanking you, or America - I was pointing out that I don't owe America anything.

 

I consider the 9/11 attacks an attack by another country on our soil. The same with Pearl Harbor. Both declarations of war and invasion of our territory and soverenty. And they don't need to invade us if they can simply obliterate us with nukes. That's why ours should always be there as a deterent.

 

Do that, and American becomes the Tyrant.

 

In your opinion. Again you don't speak for Americans.

 

Excuse me? Great Britain, France, Germany, The Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Canada, Australia, Japan, New Zealand, and many others are 'free' countries.

 

And I doubt they can stand against China or Russia if they wanted to nuke them. And if they have no nukes again they can't stand against China and Russia. Who'se (Russia) ambitions are to conquer Europe. Militarily you'd have to resist Russia. And if you fight them and lose they'll conquer them as well.

 

That's not enslavement. That's outsourcing.

 

I'm against both. Enslavement as in we must buy from them in that most of our products are made over there, the knowledge too of how to make this and that they have too. Outsourcing is also cheap, but not good when you are having so much of your products made over there. They in a way own your output of products. That's enslavement of production and way of manufacuting in that they have it and we don't.

 

I severely doubt that.

 

Well I guess you'll just have to experience the changes Obma will do to get you to wake up. By then it will be too late to change anything. Once you have Universal Health Care I doubt you can revert to Capitalistic Private Health Care.

 

And that is exactly the same with Universal Healthcare. I've said all I want to say on that matter before, and I don't have the inclination to continue beating a dead horse.

 

This info on UHC and PHC comes from the individuals (friends) I know who live in Canada. They live there and they know. Are you calling them liars? We are beating a dead horse. I didn't come here to debate or have one.

 

I had this audio and I only came here to speak to those conservatives who could re asure me to as why Obama won't be able to disarm all our nukes and how to prevent him from doing so.

 

As you can see we both have minds made up and are closed minded. No point in debate if we were even ttrying to have one.

[Astor]

I think it goes along with the opinion people have about our military. Hollywood and the Europe generally have. I mean look at for example Mars attack which was a stupid move, and In the Army now. In both cases the Sergent and General were all musle bound and gruff. Totally a sterotype.

 

My dreams have been crushed.

 

I can't speak for every American and neither can you.

 

No, I can't, but i'm not American, so I wouldn't presume to speak for another countries citizens.

 

I consider the 9/11 attacks an attack by another country on our soil. The same with Pearl Harbor. Both declarations of war and invasion of our territory and soverenty. And they don't need to invade us if they can simply obliterate us with nukes. That's why ours should always be there as a deterent.

 

I was actually talking about my country, not yours.

 

In your opinion. Again you don't speak for Americans.

 

I have never spoken for anyone other than myself. You'll notice the absence of the word 'we' in my posts for a reason.

 

And I doubt they can stand against China or Russia if they wanted to nuke them. And if they have no nukes again they can't stand against China and Russia. Who'se (Russia) ambitions are to conquer Europe. Militarily you'd have to resist Russia. And if you fight them and lose they'll conquer them as well.

 

Maybe the fact that America is pointing a missile shield at Russia isn't helping Russian sentiments.

 

Once you have Universal Health Care I doubt you can revert to Capitalistic Private Health Care.

 

I already have 'teh evil, communistic UHC' and I quite like it.

 

This info on UHC and PHC comes from the individuals (friends) I know who live in Canada. They live there and they know. Are you calling them liars? We are beating a dead horse.

 

I'm not calling anyone a liar, unlike you once did to me in a discussion over Universal Healthcare. I'm telling you that we've already discussed healthcare, and there's no need to discuss it here.

 

I didn't come here to debate or have one.

 

[/thread] then?

[mimartin]

I'm sayng there is a difference between my vid which was actual audio of Obama and yours that looked like something someone put together.[/Quote] I believe your originally posted video is valid. I believe someone placed a misrepresentative title on it. A title that has nothing to do with the content of the video: Obama - Unilaterally Disarm America is a complete and utter fallacy, but some seem to buy into it without really listening to what the President-Elect actually said.

You amuse me young one. It is not a failure. We will leave Iraq victorious.Mosule, Anbar, and all of S. Iraq are now mostly at peace and under full control of the Iraqies. [/Quote] Wait, I must have been in a coma. When did we discover the hiding place of Saddam’s WMDs?

Vengful whining liberal party. It would be great if lebermen then switched to the Republicans as a screw you to the liberals.[/Quote] You can keep Lieberman and we will keep Former Secretary of State, General Colin Luther Powell.

 

As to the breakdown in the Senate - you do know there was an election recently. It is no longer a 49-49 breakdown. The Democrats now have a 55 to 40 seat margin with 3 still too close to call. Lieberman is still important, but not as important as he was been for the past two years.

 

It is regretable that soldiers die in war, but that's what they do is die and serve their country. They are soldiers put in arms way. Tht's their job.[/Quote] And it is the President of the United States job to do everything in his/her power to only put soldiers in harm’s way as a last resort. They are our last line of defense not our first option. Having them march around the desert in a giant Easter egg hunt for WMDs was just stupid.

 

 

I think it goes along with the opinion people have about our military. Hollywood and the Europe generally have. I mean look at for example Mars attack which was a stupid move, and In the Army now. In both cases the Sergent and General were all musle bound and gruff. Totally a stereotype.[/Quote] But you sure buy into the 1940s to early 1960s Hollywood stereotype that Americans are the ones in the big white hats ridding in to save the day.

 

 

Thankfully due to ours being the deterent. Having no nukes to defend yourself shows weakness. And the world does not repect weakness. Nor do our enemies.[/Quote] Did you watch the video you originally posted? Obama never said anything about unilaterally disarming America. That was merely the title someone that dislikes Obama made up. Obama said he would not spend money on military contracts that don’t work, he would cut unnecessary wasteful spending and he would talk to Russia about getting us off hair trigger. That does not mean he will remove the trigger altogether.

 

 

I had this audio and I only came here to speak to those conservatives who could re asure me to as why Obama won't be able to disarm all our nukes and how to prevent him from doing so.[/Quote] But that is not what the audio/video said. See above.

As you can see we both have minds made up and are closed minded. No point in debate if we were even ttrying to have one.

[Achilles]

I sleep at night knowing that if our government tries to disarm our nukes to where we dont have any to deter others with

This is an argument of your own fabrication. No one is talking about complete disarmament...except you.

 

And if people of opposite race start getting all whiny tha if you do anything against Obama you must be racist wah.

"Opposite race"?

 

I mean we yes had slavery and junk in the past and now a black man can be president and they still want to whin after that.

Because electing a black president automatically means that racism is over?

 

The world is an interesting wild thing that needs to be calmed, peaceful, and in line with each other. They need control and to be taught this. We save those who are oppressed, spread our ideals through diplomacy, and of course take care of our interests as do other countries. We are the ones who police the world. Oh that's right a large part of the current generation does not respect cops so why would they respect the world's police force (us).

And how would you feel if China decided that it was there job to police the world and spread their idea of "right and wrong" via mititary action, covert overthrowing of other forms of government, economic sanctions, etc? Shouldn't we have the right to govern ourselves as we see fit, even if other countries don't agree with our way of doing things? Shouldn't we have the right to appoint leaders of our choosing?

 

No one asked us to "police" the world. We took that on ourselves and we used some pretty nasty means to do so. That some countries resent us for that shouldn't be surprising, let alone difficult to understand.

 

We are not the ones trying to make a conflict with Russia.

Indeed we are or are you conveniently ignoring the fact that we're the one's building a "missile defense system" in Poland?

 

They are making conflict with the world or soon will.

Iraq anyone?

 

So it seems to me they are bing the aggressive nation in this situation. You may say its because of our misile system pointed at them. It wouldn't be if they were trust worthy.

Their reaction to our aggressive action makes them untrustworthy. Got it.

 

You may say but what if China had missiles pointed at us. Yes we'd have some pointed at us, but if they had missiles not pointed at us we'd simply see theirs as a defense in that it is not pointed at us.

Except that our reaction to North Korea and Iran indicate otherwise. You aren't terribly consistent.

 

As for the world wrs. Its seems to me since you said probably avoidable with concern to our involvement that you feel we are not necessary in tha conflict.

Nope, only that if we hadn't backed Germany into a corner after WWI, WWII may have been avoided. Maybe Hitler would have risen to power anyway and nothing would have changed, but the circumstances would have been different.

 

I'm just curious. What wars were we necessary to be involved in? Becaue it just sems to me you feel hat even with the most important wars you feel we are not needed.

Cerainly not any of the illegal conflicts that we've been involved in since WWII.

 

I'm sayng there is a difference between my vid which was actual audio of Obama and yours that looked like something someone put together.

Again, all videos would be put together by someone. Unless of course they make themselves.

 

My video, which you still obviously haven't bothered to watch, is a clip from a movie. Since movies tend to be "put together" by movie crews, you've definitely got me on the "something someone put together" thing. Congratulations.

 

Well I could only tell that part of it. Like I sai I'm half blind and have a hard time seeing. So well you can tell me what was on that vid if yo want.

No, it's much more entertaining watching you trying to discount the content based on what you guess it was about (without having actually watched it).

 

You amuse me young one.

Do you frequently refer to people who are older than you as "young one"?

 

It is not a failure.

I'm getting the impression that you don't respond to posts so much as pick out random words and then rant about something completely unrelated. I don't think it will be much longer until you go back on my ignore list.

 

Hint: the word "fail" was used in reference to your continued use of logical fallacies. I didn't mention Iraq anywhere in there.

 

I was showing double standards and comparisons.

No you weren't.

 

Neithe did they with the Bristal thing.

No one brought that up except you. Once again we find you rallying against an argument that no one made.

[SD Nihil]

was actually talking about my country, not yours.

 

Then please next time be more clear. If you were invaded the US if your an ally would most likely come to your aid. What country are you from?

 

No, I can't, but i'm not American, so I wouldn't presume to speak for another countries citizens.

 

Good. Then please do not say stuff like I don't speak for all Americans. I know that. However, I do speak for conservatives, and Americans with core American beliefs that are of the patriotic type who value principals above policy. I say that because both Republicans and Democrates have become parties that do not represent your typical liberal and conservative. Democrates have become more socialistic. And the Republicans have become the blue dog democrates of the 1950's in their views. In short both parties have leaned left.

 

Maybe the fact that America is pointing a missile shield at Russia isn't helping Russian sentiments.

 

Again that is due to the fact they have proven to be untrustworthy and evil. They would love to nuke us if we had none. They are up to no good when it comes to Georgia with the recent invasion and claming of Georgian soverign land as part of their own. They've also claimed an oil pipeline as their own. This is an important pipeline they can choke off and deny us and others of oil. More the reason why we should be drilling for oil and harvesting coal here at home. But Obama won't do that. Also, Russia has no one else to blame for the missiles and our distrust of them but themselves. The world doesn't like them too much. The evidence of this is the recent pulling them out of the world market. They'e isolated themselves in this manner.

 

So with all of this now is not even the time to weaken the missile shield. With their unpredictability it is necessary to have a defense against them. To let them know you will not conquest to the point you harm the west directly. Also Russia has nukes and it is good to have a defense in cases they were to be bold enough to fire them. And they won't as long as we have this defense because they knwo we'd kill them and they'd kill us at the same time if they got through the shield. Otherwise they'd be the only one who'd not exist.

 

I already have 'teh evil, communistic UHC' and I quite like it.

 

Well apparently many Canadians don't. That's why many of them come down to America to recieve carre because they know they'll get it quicker than Canada's UHC. As an individual with PHC I'm satisfied with the PHC system of the US. Have you ever experienced PHC? When and where?

 

I'm not calling anyone a liar, unlike you once did to me in a discussion over Universal Healthcare. I'm telling you that we've already discussed healthcare, and there's no need to discuss it here.[/quote[

 

I didn't bring up socialism. But I did expand upon the thought when I responded to it. Topics can branch off. Brining up the past is gunny sacking. It was not my intent to cal you a liar. I simply was saying that by the fact you said something that was controdictory to from what I know of UHC based on my friends and read that it just seems like you were making controdictions to the facts. Never called you a liar. If I did I apologize. And my friends you were saying this is the same with UHC or something. Well hey I'm simply telling you what they said and I believe they are accurate in their description of Candadian UHHC since they live there.

 

I believe your originally posted video is valid. I believe someone placed a misrepresentative title on it. A title that has nothing to do with the content of the video: Obama - Unilaterally Disarm America is a complete and utter fallacy, but some seem to buy into it without really listening to what the President-Elect actually said.

 

Actually if you do a search on youtube with the critera "Obama to disarm America" you'll find this vid along with others of it, but with different titles. So the actual audio is what is important. These are his words, voice, and comon sense can tell you all of this is disarmment of nukes planning, ICMBs, and other systems designed to protect us from missiles and nukes. Con sense would tell you Obama is disarming these defenses also the words do that too. So a title of one vid matters little when the content is what really matters. Nice try. Well not really.

 

Wait, I must have been in a coma. When did we discover the hiding place of Saddam’s WMDs?

 

The WMD arguemtn was due to intel not just by us, but by other countries collaborating with us. Also inteligence agencies of us. If it was a failure of them it was of Clinton since he cut funding and such to our intel organizations along with the military becaus he din't like the military. And the WMD arguemtn was to get the UN to act because alone the fact that Saddam broke the cease fire agrement by kciking inspectors out the UN didnt want to support action against them on. So to get them to act we had to convince them it was appropriate to act. So in reality it doesn't matter if he had WMDs or not. He broke the agreement when he kicked inspectors out. War couldn've been avoided had he let them back in. But we did all short of war as a last resort. We warned 14 resolutions are essentually warnings. Sacntions are restrictions. And the only thing left was war. The UN didn't want to act due to they'd lose out on their Food for Oil deal where the food wasn't getting to Saddam's people any. It was going to feed Saddam's military while his people starved. The U.N. is to be a humanitarian organization. They obvously were not here. They chose to make a profit off getting oil from Saddam and lining their pockets at the expense of Saddma's starving people. They should've stoped their deal with him if they had any morality in this case.

 

And us invading would mean they would no lnger get oil from Saddam. So people want to say we did it for oil is untrue. Infact it was the U.N. that was getting oil. And still even today we are getting no oil from Iraq. The oil is theirs.

 

You can keep Lieberman and we will keep Former Secretary of State, General Colin Luther Powell.

 

The former secrety of state didn't really mesh with the Bush administration and so since he was replaced he felt vengful and joined Obama out of vengence. So you keep him because he does mesh well with the Obama adgenda. Besides he has all the talking points down. He's an Obama talking head alright.

 

As to the breakdown in the Senate - you do know there was an election recently. It is no longer a 49-49 breakdown. The Democrats now have a 55 to 40 seat margin with 3 still too close to call. Lieberman is still important, but not as important as he was been for the past two years.

 

It almost sounds like your saying the statement of I do know there is an election that happened like your sayng I'm stupid or not hearing current events. I assure you I'm very informed as you can see by my commentaries against the lot of you uninformed.

 

I consider value of congressmen based on past accomplishments, current accomplishments, character, ethics, princapls, and future plans. We don't know his future value Leiberman he will have. You seem to look at him as how much is he worth to the adgenda of the dems. I see that he should join the reps simply because they will treat him better and not get back at him like the th dems are for him supporting McCain. So it seems to me the dems are throwing Leibermen under the bus. So I say he should go to a party that would see him of value and value him as a person better and treat him with better respect thn the dems that are showing lack of character and ethics.

 

And it is the President of the United States job to do everything in his/her power to only put soldiers in harm’s way as a last resort. They are our last line of defense not our first option. Having them march around the desert in a giant Easter egg hunt for WMDs was just stupid.

 

Again the first lne to look for WMDs was the U.N. inspectors, but Saddam wouldn't allow this. As I've explained we went through every single thing before we did the last resort of war. We warned, sanctionsed, and then war was the last resort. You can't get the first line U.N. inspectors to look for WMDs if they've been kicked out. So Soldiers have to come into do that as well as secure the country, rebuild, and do all to make the country self seficient for their citizens to control and defend. And we are soon to victory.

 

But you sure buy into the 1940s to early 1960s Hollywood stereotype that Americans are the ones in the big white hats ridding in to save the day.

 

That's becaus they still are. Hollywood use to be less anit American back then. And I wouldn't say white hats. I'd say helmets, some white hats(medical aid), and caps (regular citizens giving to carity and donating to others freely).

 

Did you watch the video you originally posted? Obama never said anything about unilaterally disarming America. That was merely the title someone that dislikes Obama made up. Obama said he would not spend money on military contracts that don’t work, he would cut unnecessary wasteful spending and he would talk to Russia about getting us off hair trigger. That does not mean he will remove the trigger altogether.

 

It means disarming America as in making us vulnerable to surface to surface missile attacks, nuke attacks, and cutting such spending that makes us more vulnerable on a national scale. Comon sense would tell you what it means. Words mean less than true meaning of what it means. Comon sene seems to be very much less in this world. Well it is there, but not used by many due to they wish to listen to anti war, far left, socialistic, anti American info.

 

But that is not what the audio/video said. See above. [/QIUOTE]

 

I kow the video didn't say I came here for that reason. lol. Again look at my before this quote response. Heck man after my recent sist removal and cartilege removal I'm on tylonal with Codene and I can still easily rebut you all. lol. yes its a narcotic and I can still do this easily. lol.

 

The only poll that matters.

 

Your point please. As I said we both have minds made up and are closed minded. What was your point to your link. Some espn poll. Tell the half blind man what that was about.

[mimartin]

Actually if you do a search on youtube with the critera "Obama to disarm America" you'll find this vid along with others of it, but with different titles. So the actual audio is what is important. These are his words, voice, and comon sense can tell you all of this is disarmment of nukes planning, ICMBs, and other systems designed to protect us from missiles and nukes. Con sense would tell you Obama is disarming these defenses also the words do that too. So a title of one vid matters little when the content is what really matters. Nice try. Well not really.[/Quote] So you are saying don’t listen to what he actually said in the video, but listen to the what? I believe President-Elect Obama is very clear what he is saying and it says nothing of disarmament. As to the missile defense system that is suppose to “defend us.” He said he would not implement it until there is working technology. I fail to see how that is not a good solid conservative idea or does not make good financial sense.

And us invading would mean they would no lnger get oil from Saddam. So people want to say we did it for oil is untrue. Infact it was the U.N. that was getting oil. And still even today we are getting no oil from Iraq. The oil is theirs.[/Quote] What was that about.

The former secrety of state didn't really mesh with the Bush administration [/Quote] That happens when the administration ask someone honorable to go in front of the world population and lie.

It almost sounds like your saying the statement of I do know there is an election that happened like your sayng I'm stupid or not hearing current events. I assure you I'm very informed as you can see by my commentaries against the lot of you uninformed.[/Quote] You statement sounded like you were imply Lieberman was more important than he really is now that the Democrats have a clear majority.

I consider value of congressmen based on past accomplishments, current accomplishments, character, ethics, princapls, and future plans. We don't know his future value Leiberman he will have. You seem to look at him as how much is he worth to the adgenda of the dems. I see that he should join the reps simply because they will treat him better and not get back at him like the th dems are for him supporting McCain. So it seems to me the dems are throwing Leibermen under the bus. So I say he should go to a party that would see him of value and value him as a person better and treat him with better respect thn the dems that are showing lack of character and ethics.

I know you are well informed, but I suggest you take another look at Senator Lieberman’s voting record before confirming him with Republican Sainthood.

It means disarming America as in making us vulnerable to surface to surface missile attacks, nuke attacks, and cutting such spending that makes us more vulnerable on a national scale. Comon sense would tell you what it means. Words mean less than true meaning of what it means. Comon sene seems to be very much less in this world. Well it is there, but not used by many due to they wish to listen to anti war, far left, socialistic, anti American info.[/Quote] Wow. So to be pro-America you have to build and pay for a Missile Defense System that does not work even under controlled conditions.

 

I kow the video didn't say I came here for that reason. lol. Again look at my before this quote response. [/Quote] So you just made it up what you wanted it to say. I understand now.

[Litofsky]

As I really don't want to go through this entire discussion again, I'm going to address your last point:

 

Your point please. As I said we both have minds made up and are closed minded. What was your point to your link. Some espn poll. Tell the half blind man what that was about.

 

I do believe that you've made an argument against mimartin's signature, which, generally, contains a joke. Lighten up, SD.

[El Sitherino]

I don't really know what anyone is supposed to discuss, obviously this is a proven tactic in diplomacy. This thread is nothing but paranoid delusions.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

I don't really know what anyone is supposed to discuss, obviously this is a proven tactic in diplomacy. This thread is nothing but paranoid delusions.

cia psy op technique to discredit the truth about the illuminati but the End Times Profit already got the truth out

[SD Nihil]

This will be my last post on this topic. Guys I didn't make this topic for liberals, and other nationalities to post on. I made it to ask conservatives what they thought as to why Obama won't do it, or how we can prevent him from taking away the nukes.

 

I didn't ask for the rest of yours opinions. You seem to think I care or wanted your all's opinions. I know that talking to liberals and nationalities is like shooting a dead horse. They have their biased, left leaning sources and such. I'm not here for you.

 

And yawn. I could contineu to rebut your posts and cointinue to educate yo guys, but I'll just end by saying this topic was not meant for you and was meant only for conservatives and their voice I was wishing to har on the matter. It seems to me you giuys think everything is a debate thread. It was not intended to be that. Now I again could rebut your comments and info, but again I believe and will always believe what I believe no matter what period. I dind't come for a debate. I came for the conservatives opionon on the matter, not to debate liberals and other nationalities.

 

So since this is my topic I say taht is final. As you can see that's why there is no one really deating on such forums here anyway since there is no point anyway. I won't change you. And you don't change me. I'll believe no matter what and you wil too. So we are both closed minded and minds are made up. So end of topic.

[mimartin]

So we are both closed minded and minds are made up. So end of topic.

Since I am not closed minded, I really wish you would not imply that I am. I've actually had my mind changed on more that one issue during debates in this very forum by ET Warrior, El Sitherino, Achilles and that is not to mentioning the times my mind has been changed by those using asinine arguments to make their point. Of course, in those cases it just showed me how foolish my own arguments were. For another thing, I am not a liberal; I have tested and voted more than once as a conservative. On certain issues, I am liberal, but on other issues, I am conservative.

[Achilles]

On certain issues, I am liberal, but on other issues, I am conservative.

A Texan that voted for Obama. Your centrist cred is good here.

[Astor]

This will be my last post on this topic. Guys I didn't make this topic for liberals, and other nationalities to post on. I made it to ask conservatives what they thought as to why Obama won't do it, or how we can prevent him from taking away the nukes.

 

Then one would suggest making a tpoic on a forum dedicated to Conservative American politics, as opposed to an international gaming forum.

 

I didn't ask for the rest of yours opinions. You seem to think I care or wanted your all's opinions. I know that talking to liberals and nationalities is like shooting a dead horse. They have their biased, left leaning sources and such. I'm not here for you.

 

The fact you posted here says you wanted opinions. But you clearly only want opinions that agree with your own.

 

And yawn. I could contineu to rebut your posts and cointinue to educate yo guys, but I'll just end by saying this topic was not meant for you and was meant only for conservatives and their voice I was wishing to har on the matter. It seems to me you giuys think everything is a debate thread.

 

You don't wish for discussion and debate in a debate and discussion forum?