my report and conclustion

[SD Nihil]

Last night if you guys remember I was still working on the whole video card issue. Well I was looking in the Catylst Control center of ATI and was trying to click outside the drop down list when I accidentally clicked Autolasing and 2x. Which doing so froze my computer. Each time I'd restart into normal mode it froze. In safe mode it didn't. So I got the independent tech to come over and work on it. He did somethign in msconfig to stop a process that was doing it. Even though I uninstalled the ATI Catylist Control center that had that option in it the computer would freeze. So he corrected it in msconfig.

 

We talked about the ATI card he put in. We discovered that this computer I've had since 1999. Wow. So I guess I must be doing something right for it to last so long.

 

However, with my computer being old and the incompatability issues with KOTOR and the current card and not knowing if a NVIDA would even work on this computer he suggested I simply next time I get a new computer that I call Dell and ask them to put together a computer and try to see if they will put XP on it since that's what KOTOR will do.

 

As before my budget to spend. The max I can spend is 15000 dollars. From this whole experience that frightened me and made me sick to my stomach that I thought he was going to have to end up wiping the computer, thankfully he didn't have to. But since this was a bad experience for me I say never again will I screw with video card stuff.

 

I'll just call up Dell sometime and get them to put together a computer that will run KOTOR games well. Yeah at this point still can't play KOTOR on this computer. I think this computer is old enough that will be a problem not matter what anyway. I just don't want to mess with it anymore.

 

I can wait a few months for a new computer. So what I need from you guys is if you can let's make up a idea for a new computer that is made to play KOTOR. Let's make that dream computer.

 

Thank you guys. I'm just happy that today I feel a lot better after my computer now can load again. lol.

[urluckyday]

I've never heard the words "dream computer" and KOTOR in the same sentence. I mean, if you have a small budget, most computers out there will run KOTOR very well right now at a low price...more specifics of what you want would be nice.

[SD Nihil]

Well because K1-2 has issues with Vista right now it should be an XP. It should have a DVD and CD drive, and Flash drive. I don't need a zip or A drive anymore. Flat panel monitor(preferabily 19, 21inch), I'd like to be able to play K1-2, EaW/FoC, and Starcraft 2 if that is possible. I'd like the card to bele to allow for the max settings in K1-2. It'd be cool if it could run Starcraft 2, but I'm not sure in that it will be a new game and K1-2 are older. I'm not sure if it will work. Also, my current computer has trouble with EaW in that if you reach max unit capacity in the galaxy map the game becomes sluggish. I was told it was due to my processor being a Pentium 4 and that I would told I should get a processor better than that.

 

Also, the resolution of the card does not need to be high. I am visually impared and have one eye. The other is a prosthetic. I was born with one eye and am low vision. I sue Zoomtext. But like I said I play K1-2 and love it. Well loved it when this computer wasn't messed up and old. Yeah I play xbox live and no one knows I'm blind or suspects it. So its not like I'm with little vision or anything. lol.

 

I know some things, but please for any configuration, or what driver to stay at please tell me with the new computer when I get it. I don't want to mess up my old computer to where I have that whole driver mess up. So I want to know what I'm doing. My resoultion I use all the time is 800x 600. I sue it because its biggest for me.

 

Thanks.

[Q]

I can't believe that your tech guy hasn't told you that you should reinstall Windows, given that your installation is so old.

 

Like I said before, I will keep an eye out for a good deal on a Dell for you, and the final price with monitor should not be any more than $1000.00 for a system that will serve you well for years.

[SD Nihil]

He said since service pack 2 and 3 you no longer have to do that. He said that was true you had to reinstall every year or so during the time before and during the time of service pack 1. While I've adked you about a computer I've also been asking on Obsiden too. To make it a more collaborative effort and put all the qualified minds together, let's collaborate. Currently tehy've hleped me to come up with some specs:

 

Processor: Intel Core Duo E 8400(or something in the 8 series)

3 GB RAM

Nvidia 9500GT PCIE graphic Card

Good Hard Drive(i.e Coolermaster Elite Tower with an extra fan)

Pioneer DVD Burner

Flash Drive

Gigabyte M-61 Motherboard

XP Pro(till Vista gets fixed)

 

What do you think of this current specs? I'm currently asking them if the graphics card will also play Starcraft 2. They say this card does play Oblivion and World of Warcraft on highest settings just fine. But I would not want to play Oblivion. I mean if KOTOR can be adictive, I can't imagine what Oblivion or World of Warcraft is all about. But if they have guys playing 15 hours a day on it and losing their jobs due to it, lol, it would be a bad idea for me since I love KOTOR so much. It's a project. Working on a galaxy, being an arcatech of shaping it to how I want and doing LS and DS wiht care on how I want it is so satisfying.

 

The thread where the discussion of the card and specs forthe new computer is here, I hope tis is okay to give a link to another forum. Not sure if you guys are in competition. Here it is: http://www.lucasforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=698

 

But since your looking for a computer as well this helps because it puts all ideas together and together it can only help to make a better outcome and knowledge to all becomes spread around to better the outcome.

[jrrtoken]

He said since service pack 2 and 3 you no longer have to do that.

That's a good one, because almost everything that runs on the NT kernel always needs to be reinstalled once in a while, regardless of the OS version.

Processor: Intel Core Duo E 8400(or something in the 8 series)

3 GB RAM

Nvidia 9500GT PCIE graphic Card

Good Hard Drive(i.e Coolermaster Elite Tower with an extra fan)

Pioneer DVD Burner

Flash Drive

Gigabyte M-61 Motherboard

XP Pro(till Vista gets fixed)

Yeah, that's a really decent rig. It'll run more than just KotOR alone, though, and I mean games that run on engines as advanced as the Unreal Engine 3, such as Mass Effect. The flash drive is totally optional, though. In fact, if you want to save lots of dough, you might as well buy all of the parts individually from retailers and just assemble everything yourself.

 

Here it is: http://www.lucasforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=698

Uh, that links to Kavar's

[Astrotoy7]

As before my budget to spend. The max I can spend is 15000 dollars.

 

whoa, you could build a corei7 crossfire 4870X2 for that kind of dough.

 

It of course wouldnt run KOTOR

 

If there's a good deal to be had, Q will send it your way

 

mtfbwya

[SD Nihil]

What's a "corei7 crossfire 4870X2"? Is that the cpu, processor, or what? Yeah I know. SD you are so "nar nar nar na nar nar nar". That was my sucky attempt to do the sound of a banjo like I must be dumb if I don't know what that "corei7 crossfire 4870X2" meant. Which I don't. Whta's it mean?

 

Yeah I gave th wrong link. SD what are you blind. lol. Here's the real link: http://forums.obsidian.net/index.php?showtopic=51224

 

Now you get to see in that thread my helmet wearing lack of tech knowlege from another forum. lol.

 

But anyway, I appreciate this guys. Q and these guys working together will be great in haveing multiple ideas and help this family with a new computer. Games for me, newer less slow comptuer for them, and everyone will be able to do their pictures, itunes, music, and etc.

 

Things have sure changed since way back when I remember my first computer was a 286 and it only held 6MB. Back then that was like the best you could get. Yeah I'm old. lol. I's just amazing how in the late 80's it was that and now just a decade or so later huge, amazing, sleak pcs have changed so much.

 

Thanks guys.

[jrrtoken]

What's a "corei7 crossfire 4870X2"? Is that the cpu, processor, or what? Yeah I know. SD you are so "nar nar nar na nar nar nar". That was my sucky attempt to do the sound of a banjo like I must be dumb if I don't know what that "corei7 crossfire 4870X2" meant. Which I don't. Whta's it mean?

Briefly, it's a very advanced graphics card. And when I mean advanced, I mean that you can run games of the future on that beast.

 

Things have sure changed since way back when I remember my first computer was a 286 and it only held 6MB. Back then that was like the best you could get. Yeah I'm old. lol. I's just amazing how in the late 80's it was that and now just a decade or so later huge, amazing, sleak pcs have changed so much.

lol, I remember the time where I got a 2GB hard drive. Ah, memories.

[Astrotoy7]

...Yeah I know. SD you are so "nar nar nar na nar nar nar". That was my sucky attempt to do the sound of a banjo like I must be dumb if I don't know what that "corei7 crossfire 4870X2" meant...

 

no need to be like that. Read our "Tech news and gossip" thread regularly and you'll soon know everything, all the time

 

mtfbwya

[SD Nihil]

So is this "corei7 crossfire 4870X2" a NVIDA? Also, as you can see from the thread link these guys really need to come to a consensuc. lol. They tell me when I do call up Dell about say a monitor that they don't do as good when it comes to asking for say a 21inch flat panel monitor. How come? Also with XP on this new system should I go with 32 or 64 bit. I hear that with 64 some older programs don't work on it. I heard something from komando.com that 64 bit with win xp was a neightmare? And so this "corei7 crossfire 4870X2" should be able to play K1-2, EaW/FoC, andStarcraft 2?

[jrrtoken]

So is this "corei7 crossfire 4870X2" a NVIDA?

Nope, ATI. Still a great GPU manufacturer, though.

Also, as you can see from the thread link these guys really need to come to a consensuc. lol. They tell me when I do call up Dell about say a monitor that they don't do as good when it comes to asking for say a 21inch flat panel monitor. How come?

...what did you say?

Also with XP on this new system should I go with 32 or 64 bit.

Go with 32-bit. 'Nuff said.

And so this "corei7 crossfire 4870X2" should be able to play K1-2, EaW/FoC, andStarcraft 2?

More like Crysis on max graphics with >60 FPS.

[SD Nihil]

Yeah one of those guys said on there something about that would be difficult with Dell to get a 21inch monitor. I'd have to look back to see where it was. But non the less we're deciding on the monitor. I do like the ones where it can be descrete monitor. You know tose where you look to the side and you can't see the screen unless your incront of it. At least that's what I think mine is. Less bright when you look from the side. They did say on this thread it depends on which monitor do you like when it comes to flat panel. They asked if I liked neon lights. I have no idea of what that would be.

 

Didn't we say though that KOTOR runs better on NVIDA rahter than ATI? Q said something about that. Isn't 60fps less than 75? I remember KOTOR runs max of 75. So it won't run Starcraft 2 your saying?

[jrrtoken]

Didn't we say though that KOTOR runs better on NVIDA rahter than ATI?

No, it doesn't matter who the manufacturer is, only how powerful the card is.

Q said something about that. Isn't 60fps less than 75?

Yep, 60<75, obviously.

I remember KOTOR runs max of 75.

I don't think KotOR has a preset framerate cap. Then again, I've never had an average framerate over 50 in KotOR, so there's no way that I could test that in-game.

So it won't run Starcraft 2 your saying?

No, no, no, it will run on something as powerful as the 4870. I'm saying that a GPU like that will run a game as powerful as Crysis. Since KotOR is a five year old game, with it running on a next-gen GPU such as the 4870 or GTX 260, it will dramatically improve the performance of something such as KotOR.

[Darth333]

Didn't we say though that KOTOR runs better on NVIDA rahter than ATI?

Kotor can run fine with both. I've played it with two nVidia cards and three Ati cards(not at the same time of course ).

 

Both are good manufacturers although both have driver issues sometimes.

 

Processor: Intel Core Duo E 8400(or something in the 8 series)

3 GB RAM

Nvidia 9500GT PCIE graphic Card

Good Hard Drive(i.e Coolermaster Elite Tower with an extra fan)

Pioneer DVD Burner

Flash Drive

Gigabyte M-61 Motherboard

XP Pro(till Vista gets fixed)

For $1500 you can do a lot better than that...if that costs $1500, it is way overpriced (even in Canadian dollars). Btw, as far as I know, the Gigabyte M61 Mobo is for the AM2 socket and it won't work with the e8400 CPU. Also, the nvidia 9500gt is a very average card. It will work for kotor but don't expect it to max out games like Oblivion (well probably at 800x600 but definitely not much higher and newer games will be more demanding). However, if Kotor is all you want to play, then any recent video card, even lower end will work.

 

Btw, do you really need an already built system or are you willing to build one yourself (or do you have someone who can build one for you) ? If so, you can get better quality components at a lower price.

 

edit: also, if you have vision problems, I'd recommend a monitor with a bigger dot pitch, such as a 22" instead of a 21"...my dad, who has very poor vision now, has one now and he loves it as he is able to slightly boost the resolution (not much as the difference is still very small) and get a little more info on the screen while he is still able to read it.

 

And don't bother with a 64 bit OS unless you intend to get more than 4 gigs of ram (which is also pretty useless for gaming right now, especially for Kotor lol). Although the 32-bit version will only recognize slightly more than 3GB, it seems that it is still not worth it to get a 64bits OS for 4GB: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/vista-workshop,1775-5.html

[Astrotoy7]

....xp pro(til Vista gets fixed)....

 

if you are referring to getting fixed for KOTOR, I would like to tell you quite categorically:

[align=center]KOTOR WASNT DESIGNED FOR VISTA[/align]

 

The associated implications:

1. It isnt MS responsibility to fix. BioWare has no legacy partnership with MS ensure backward compatibility for subsequent OSs. Some engines made it through to vista virtually unscathed. A massive online community, like CStrike etc, usually ensures some legacy compatibility. KOTOR doesnt have this. Its a dwindling title, not a growing one. eg. I spend alot of time on a KOTOR forum, but havent played it for 2 years. Im sure Im not the only one!

 

2. BioWare/Obsidian would need to do a complete overhaul to fix it - will they: NO

 

3. Dont expect KOTOR to work in Windows7 for the same reasons as stated in 1.

 

Just stay with xp @Like D33 said, KOTOR in 64bit is a no-no, and x64 gaming isnt really happenning atm

 

However, please be aware that the article from Toms submitted does not fully inform > it reminds me of why I want to take that freakin hammer from Toms logo and throw it at Tom, whomever he may be

 

Lets redress the imbalance, for incomplete information is more dangerous than complete ignorance

 

After reading that, people would go around saying "hey dude, 64 bit is no good unless you have 8gb RAM. I read it on Toms man. Like for real! "

 

Yes, 64 bit is good, for two things especially:

*Niche applications > apps 'made to utilise x64' No, this doesnt include playing KOTOR with the 1337 custom stripy purple tunic and neckerchief someone modded. These niche apps are used by professionals in the fields of engineering, design, graphical design, animation and video editing applications.

 

*High end networking Servers: 64 bit OS perpetuate because of the server market. In Vista Ultimate there is a max capacity of 128GB RAM. That wasnt done by accident. Integrated with Windows Server 2008, the capabilities of networks built on these OS are significantly higher than ones based on server 2003 and xp x86.

 

Sure, this isnt relevant to many casual users or gamers. But it needs to be said. Knowing that, people can go out and instead say "64 bit wont really help much in gaming. It best works in programs written for it like professional video and graphical programs, and high end servers"

 

Finally, a decent article from Toms would have taken 5-10 commonly used apps from games to photoshop to video converters and put them through their paces on both OS variants and with 2,4,6-8GB etc. This should also include some niche application figures to demonstrate the x64 advantage when that advantage is being specifically targeted.

 

I hope the picture is more complete now

 

mtfbwya

[SD Nihil]

Processor: Intel Core Duo E 8400(or something in the 8 series)

4GB RAM

ATI corei7 crossfire 4870X2

NVIDA Geforce 260 Core 216 (It's suggested eVGA as the brand to buy)

DVD/CD Drive and Flash Drive

Windows XP Pro 32 Bit

NVIDA Motherboard

 

This would help if we just edit this list. Like I said yeah I will read taht artile you guys mentioned to learn more, but so far a lot of this hardware stuf I know little about. I'd be great if I could by the end of this have a plan together that I can just read out to dell or something and say this is what I want build it. And of course have Q's computer he's finding too and be able to have two ideas to decide on. Who knows the final specs could improve upon Q's. And Q's could improve upon these. In the end one gret final product.

 

But yeah with my little vision I wouldn't be able to see the hardware to put it together. So maybe that tech guy might be able to put it together. He has on this computer put in the video card, ram, and cloned to a bigger hard drive. This above list is stuff with notes that has been or is being worked on by both this and the ohter Obsiden thread.

[jrrtoken]

You do realize that you only need one graphics card, right?

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

Processor: Intel Core Duo E 8400(or something in the 8 series)

4GB RAM

ATI corei7 crossfire 4870X2

NVIDA Geforce 260 Core 216 (It's suggested eVGA as the brand to buy)

DVD/CD Drive and Flash Drive

Windows XP Pro 32 Bit

NVIDA Motherboard

You should probably just get a pre-built system man. You can get an XPS 630 for $1199 with XP installed instead of Vista.

 

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/services/xpsdt/630_DXDWCT4?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

[Jae Onasi]

Kotor can run fine with both. I've played it with two nVidia cards and three Ati cards(not at the same time of course ).

 

What? You're not that hard-core enough to game on all of them at the same time? I'm so disillusioned.

 

[jrrtoken]

What? You're not that hard-core enough to game on all of them at the same time? I'm so disillusioned.

 

Heck yeah, 200 frames per second. All of the lip syncs go at light speed.

[Q]

To clarify: a 4870X2 is a dual-GPU graphics card by ATI which is the most powerful graphics card on the market right now, and a Core i7 is Intel's newest CPU that was released a week a go and replaces Core2 Duo and Core2 Quad. They're both pretty new, so I'm not surprised that you haven't heard of them. You won't need either one of those. They're too expensive and way beyond your needs.

[SD Nihil]

Yes I do realize that you need only one graphics card. What were the two I accidentally wrote?

[Q]

Yes I do realize that you need only one graphics card. What were the two I accidentally wrote?

An HD 4870X2 and a GTX260 Core216.

You should probably just get a pre-built system man. You can get an XPS 630 for $1199 with XP installed instead of Vista.

 

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/services/xpsdt/630_DXDWCT4?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

I was thinking more along the lines of something like this Dell Inspiron 530 for $449.00. Check out the specs: Q6600, 3GB. It'll be a fixer-upper, yes, but even as-is it's a way better deal than that XPS. It comes with integrated graphics , but it also has a graphics card slot and the integrated graphics can serve as a backup if your graphics card dies. Dell has a deal going on where they ship the computer with XP installed and supply you with the reinstallation disks for both XP and Vista (and quite possibly a COA for both, making a dual-boot setup possible for no extra cost), and they could probably be convinced to do that in this case, but it might involve some email tag or talking with a living sales rep on the phone. They may also be willing to switch out that Q6600 for an E8400 or even an E8500, either of which I think would better serve your needs, because for now a faster dual-core is better than a slower quad-core in games. It would also be wise to ask just how big of a video card that case can accommodate.

 

The computer I linked you to is a good start, but it will need some things like a monitor, speakers, a video card and a power supply that can handle the video card. We're not getting any of these items from Dell because their markup on them is nothing short of ridiculous.

 

To start off, you're going to need to do two things. First, go to Newegg and sign up for their newsletter. Doing so will let you use their promotional codes to get stuff like discounts and free shipping. Second, go to MS Live Search and sign up for their cash back program. Do these things now because I'm going to start throwing some deals at you. You'll be doing some of your shopping through Live Search to earn cash back. The links that I've provided below are for reference only. You'll want to purchase these items through Live Search's cash back program after you sign up for it.

 

Power Supply:

OCZ StealthXStream OCZ600SXS 600W, $27.99 after rebate with free shipping.

We'll start with the power supply because the deal that I found on it ends tomorrow (as in Wednesday, 11/26). It's not the very best PSU, but it will be more than adequate for your needs. Besides, it's 72% off. Be sure to follow the instructions on the rebate form to the letter so that you get your money. Go ahead and buy it and if you find out that for some reason you don't need it you can Fleabay it for a profit. People do it all the time; I do. I don't think that Live Search's cash back program will apply to this item because it's on sale, but it never hurts to try.

 

Monitor:

SVA 2400w 24" 1920x1200 LCD Monitor, $259.99, $246.99 after Live Search Cash Back.

I'm sure you've never heard of the brand, and it's very likely that neither has anyone else (it's actually Sylvania), and you're probably wondering why I'm recommending it. Well, it's because this monitor is the least expensive 24" 8-bit VA (as in PVA or MVA) panel that I know of, as opposed to the other 24" monitors in this price range that are all 6-bit TN panels. A 24" Dell monitor with this type of panel would be at least double the price. What's the difference between an 8-bit VA panel and a 6-bit TN? The VA has far better color representation and a much wider viewing angle so that the image doesn't wash out when you're looking at the monitor from any angle other than straight on. If this model had been available at this price when I was in the market for an LCD, I would have bought it instead of the crappy TN panel that I'm using now.

 

Video Card:

I'll have to get back to you on this one, because there are no outstanding deals that I can find ATM. My bet is on the Nvidia GTX260 because it's gone EOL (End Of Life) and is being replaced by the GTX260 Core216. The negligible difference in performance between the two is not worth the ~$100.00 price premium, IMO. I saw an EVGA model briefly at Newegg for $170.00 after rebate about a week ago, but Newegg pulled it in a matter of hours. With Black Friday coming up there's bound to be something soon, so you shouldn't have to spend any more than $200.00 for a good graphics card, and you're going to need a good graphics card with a large frame buffer to drive that monitor. I'll keep looking.

 

If all goes well you're going to have around $70.00 to spend on a decent set of speakers and you'll still be hovering at ~$1000.00 for total system cost. And you'll be set with a positively kickass computer.

[SD Nihil]

I should've said this earlier. I simply wanted to get a list of specs and links to those specs so tht when I and the family are done with our other projects(home projects) we'll get onto this. For example we've been thinking about redoing the kitchen. And Thanksgiving is soon so there is that.

 

I was simply trying to get the info together so that we know what we want when we go to get a computer. I'm sorry I think I said this earlier, but maybe I didn't. Besides, it will be cheaper to have the links to the parts so they can be purchased. The tech fella can assemble it and there you go. Saves money. Besides, he charges us less in that he knows us. Heck times when he's had to come over he hasn't even charged us for the time he should in that he's nice.

 

The great thing is the family will have the computer they signed up for. You see they know this guy from Church that were he works they get in old computers that they wipe, refurbish, and give to those who need them. These computers are about 3yr old. So they get their computer, and I get mine. It's great in that they'll no longet have to bump me off the computer to do stuff. We'll have our own computers.

 

I apprecite this. I should've added that earlier. I think I did, but if I didn't, I am now.. Thanks.