Mass Effect 2 [thread contains spoilers]

[DarthParametric]

If by minor you mean a line or two of dialogue, I agree. Otherwise, I don't see it playing any part. There's no point spending excessive time and effort on content that only a portion of the userbase will access, and is ultimately trivial regardless.

[Totenkopf]

Yeah, perhaps a conversation option like "can you believe those sobs? I saved their sorry asses twice and they put me on trial." Then one of his teammates can say something hackneyed like "what do you expect from politicians." Hopefully they won't even go there. Just go around the galaxy rounding up your allies, beating down enemies till you get back to earth and send the reapers back to hell. And this time with as little dlc as possible (preferably none.....yeah, ain't holding my breath or anything).

[mimartin]

Since the outcome of Arrival is the same no matter what you do (unless you fail the mission), then they could still use Arrival at the start of ME3 regardless if you played DLC or not. Much like ME2 treats ME if you don’t import a PC.

 

So in the case where I took the renegade points the first time I played Arrival

 

I shot Dr. Kenson instead of listening to her rant. I could see that having a negative effect, but in the form of either a line or a reprimand by space email. Nothing more it is only DLC afterall.

When has DLC ever produced any major changes to a sequel?

[igyman]

Wow, this thread is starting to remind me of the mess that are Bioware's forums...

 

As for Arrival, it arrived and brought some more plotholes and inconsistencies into the ME universe. Not really surprising at this point and I expect more of them in ME3, considering Mac Walters remains the lead writer. However, all this is completely unimportant. The critical question is this: Why do every time I install a DLC for ME2 my ME1 settings (graphics and controls) revert to their default values!?

[ChAiNz.2da]

Wow, this thread is starting to remind me of the mess that are Bioware's forums...

 

 

The critical question is this: Why do every time I install a DLC for ME2 my ME1 settings (graphics and controls) revert to their default values!?

Wow, that is kinda odd. PC version?

[igyman]

Yup. PC version.

[Achilles]

As for Arrival, it arrived and brought some more plotholes and inconsistencies into the ME universe. Not really surprising at this point and I expect more of them in ME3, considering Mac Walters remains the lead writer.

ME1 has been, by far, the worst offender so far as plot holes and inconsistencies go. Why is this being pinned on Mac Walters?

[ChAiNz.2da]

Yup. PC version.

 

Seems everyone is suggesting either setting the config/ini files to "read-only" OR deleting your profile so that the game makes a new one (that's settings stick). "Supposedly" your settings, achievements, etc. are retained.

 

Though I'm pretty sure I don't have to re-iterate the "make backups first" rule to modding and/or self-help tech hehehe

[igyman]

ME1 has been, by far, the worst offender so far as plot holes and inconsistencies go. Why is this being pinned on Mac Walters?

 

Admittedly it has been over a year since I played through the complete ME1 story, but in all my playthroughs I don't really remember having a "WTF is this s**t!?" reaction to a plot point. As for pinning it on Walters, it's because ME2 is a sequel and is supposed to respect the rules of the universe and build on the story established in ME1. Instead Walters as the new lead writer seems to disregard a lot of what his predecessor established and simply goes for the "(visually) spectacular" factor. I do realize that there's a team of writers behind each ME game, but it's the job of the lead writer to make sure it all fits together.

 

@Chainz: Thanks, I'll try that.

[Primogen]

Actually, if ME3 was a Bethesda product, you'd start the game in an Alliance prison and then be released, only for the Reapers to begin a sporadic and rather pathetic invasion about three quests in.

[Alkonium]

Actually, if ME3 was a Bethesda product, you'd start the game in an Alliance prison and then be released, only for the Reapers to begin a sporadic and rather pathetic invasion about three quests in.

 

And this would make even more sense:

(This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.)

[Achilles]

Admittedly it has been over a year since I played through the complete ME1 story, but in all my playthroughs I don't really remember having a "WTF is this s**t!?" reaction to a plot point.

 

The Reapers systematically wiped out all traces of the Protheans, yet the entire surface of Feros is a Prothean ruin? There's one. Would you like more?

 

The Thorian was allegedly there before the Protheans. Yet it's hanging out inside a Prothean structure. Did they build it around the Thorian or did the devs assume that we would be too stupid to notice this?

 

Saren is the Council's most trusted Spectre, yet he has to plan an all-out assault on the Citadel to get Sovereign there? He couldn't convince the geth to stage a diversion nearby and then ring up the Council and say "hey, I found a wicked ship. Hang there for a minute and I'll swing by so you can scope it".

 

ME1 Exploration Drinking Game: Explore the galaxy and take a shot every time a planet is either a captured object or tidally locked. Take two if it's a tidally locked captured gas giant within the habitable zone of it's star (astronomy fail).

 

Or how about this? Why did the Protheans build a mass relay and then stick it 15 miles away at the end of their sewer system.

 

Sorry, sir, if you didn't have a million "WTF is this s**t!?" moments in ME1, I'm going to suggest that it may have been because you weren't paying close enough attention.

 

Fun game. Guilty pleasure. But still mostly crap.

 

As for pinning it on Walters, it's because ME2 is a sequel and is supposed to respect the rules of the universe and build on the story established in ME1. Instead Walters as the new lead writer seems to disregard a lot of what his predecessor established and simply goes for the "(visually) spectacular" factor. I do realize that there's a team of writers behind each ME game, but it's the job of the lead writer to make sure it all fits together.

I would absolutely get that if it weren't for the fact that Drew K is far worse about this than Mac W is. The biggest beef that I've had with ME1 universe vs ME2 universe is the fact that every seems to be pretty much ok with Batarians.

[Drunkside]

1 The Reapers systematically wiped out all traces of the Protheans, yet the entire surface of Feros is a Prothean ruin? There's one. Would you like more?

 

2 The Thorian was allegedly there before the Protheans. Yet it's hanging out inside a Prothean structure. Did they build it around the Thorian or did the devs assume that we would be too stupid to notice this?

 

3 Saren is the Council's most trusted Spectre, yet he has to plan an all-out assault on the Citadel to get Sovereign there? He couldn't convince the geth to stage a diversion nearby and then ring up the Council and say "hey, I found a wicked ship. Hang there for a minute and I'll swing by so you can scope it".

 

4 ME1 Exploration Drinking Game: Explore the galaxy and take a shot every time a planet is either a captured object or tidally locked. Take two if it's a tidally locked captured gas giant within the habitable zone of it's star (astronomy fail).

 

5 Or how about this? Why did the Protheans build a mass relay and then stick it 15 miles away at the end of their sewer system.

 

Sorry, sir, if you didn't have a million "WTF is this s**t!?" moments in ME1, I'm going to suggest that it may have been because you weren't paying close enough attention.

 

1: True, yet it is possible that they didnt find the planet. which doesnt really seem probable. But those protheans in the pods couldve gone there after it was already wiped clean and built the entire city.

 

2: How do you know its actually a prothean building? There were others before prothies.

 

3: I agree with this completely, it simply makes no sense.

 

4: Noticed the same thing about the gas giants too, but it never bothered me enough to become an issue. I merely pointed it out to my brother, he stated that its "fail" and i kept playing

 

5: It probably isnt a sewer system, its been 50000 years, nature does funky stuff to buildings. Actually i find it more unbelievable that there even are any prothean ruins left anywhere.

[Achilles]

1: True, yet it is possible that they didnt find the planet. which doesnt really seem probable. But those protheans in the pods couldve gone there after it was already wiped clean and built the entire city.

Indeed. Or it could have been the Flying Elvis'. They found a worm-hole, crawled through, and decided that they like the decor so much that they devoted the next several generations to remodeling. Or it's a plot hole. You decide.

 

2: How do you know its actually a prothean building? There were others before prothies.

Read the codex for Feros and get back to me.

 

3: I agree with this completely, it simply makes no sense.

Awesome.

 

4: Noticed the same thing about the gas giants too, but it never bothered me enough to become an issue. I merely pointed it out to my brother, he stated that its "fail" and i kept playing

Relatively minor. I'm sure that 99% of everyone either doesn't know or doesn't care.

 

5: It probably isnt a sewer system, its been 50000 years, nature does funky stuff to buildings. Actually i find it more unbelievable that there even are any prothean ruins left anywhere.

Sorry, it's stated many times that all traces of the Protheans were systematically wiped out.

[Drunkside]

Indeed. Or it could have been the Flying Elvis'. They found a worm-hole, crawled through, and decided that they like the decor so much that they devoted the next several generations to remodeling. Or it's a plot hole. You decide.

 

Read the codex for Feros and get back to me.

 

Awesome.

 

Relatively minor. I'm sure that 99% of everyone either doesn't know or doesn't care.

 

Sorry, it's stated many times that all traces of the Protheans were systematically wiped out.

 

Of the first thing, i was being sarcastic. I thought it was obvious, yet the writers could explain it that way.

 

I have never read the codexes, knowing the history of a fictional universe just doesnt interest me at all.

 

Indeed.

 

It is stated many times that all traces were wiped out, yet there are ruins on that planet. I thought we went over this in section 1? I was merely saying that the thing you race through isn´t as illogigal as you say it is.

[Achilles]

Of the first thing, i was being sarcastic. I thought it was obvious, yet the writers could explain it that way.

"I was being sarcastic, but I'm going to posit it as a legitimate possible argument one more time anyway"

 

I have never read the codexes, knowing the history of a fictional universe just doesnt interest me at all.

Ok. I do read them. Context is important for story-based games. When one thing says this and another thing says something else, that's a contradiction (and a potential plot hole). The argument was that Mac Walter does a lot of this in ME2 and the counter-argument is "maybe, but Drew K did an awful lot of it in the first game, so if we're going to criticize, let's at least do it consistently".

 

It is stated many times that all traces were wiped out, yet there are ruins on that planet. I thought we went over this in section 1? I was merely saying that the thing you race through isn´t as illogigal as you say it is.

I'm not sure how much more illogigal (sic) we can be than blatant contradiction.

[DarthParametric]

I think at least some of the issues arise from the fact that it's not just one guy writing either game, it's a group of people. There are always going to be some internal inconsistencies due to that, even though you would think the lead writer's role would be to smooth out such things.

 

For things like the Saren and mini-relay examples, those are simply gameplay driven. In the first case it would be a pretty short game if Saren did that, and in the second they had to give you some awesome button pressing action between cutscenes.

 

For the Thorian, presumably it could have grown up in the ruins during the 50,000 years since the Protheans vanished, but that of course still doesn't explain why such extensive ruins remained which would appear to contradict the Codex. I presume that is another example of gameplay expediency. In this case they had the Thorian plot and needed a place to house it that was big enough to run around in yet ancient and deserted.

 

If you want to talk about plot inconsistencies, a bigger one is the whole 50 thousand year harvesting cycle. It would make much more sense if it was every 50 million years. Apparently evolution in the ME universe is on speed or something.

[Alkonium]

If you want to talk about plot inconsistencies, a bigger one is the whole 50 thousand year harvesting cycle. It would make much more sense if it was every 50 million years. Apparently evolution in the ME universe is on speed or something.

 

It's entirely possible that the Reapers ignore inhabited planets without any form of sapient life, or a civilisation capable of FTL travel, which would explain how life would continue to evolve to its current state in more than 50,000 years.

[igyman]

The Reapers systematically wiped out all traces of the Protheans, yet the entire surface of Feros is a Prothean ruin? There's one. Would you like more?

I don't remember Feros' decription, but I doubt the entire surface is a Prothean ruin. More likely that there are many uncovered Prothean ruins on the planet's surface. Again, don't remember the planet's description/codex entry so I can't be certain (and I'm too lazy to look at the moment ).

 

The Thorian was allegedly there before the Protheans. Yet it's hanging out inside a Prothean structure. Did they build it around the Thorian or did the devs assume that we would be too stupid to notice this?

I still remember some details on the Thorian and if I'm not mistaken it is stated that the Thorian is spread under most of the planet's surface, so what we saw in ME is just one of its larger nodes that could have easily grown after the extermination of the Protheans.

 

Saren is the Council's most trusted Spectre, yet he has to plan an all-out assault on the Citadel to get Sovereign there? He couldn't convince the geth to stage a diversion nearby and then ring up the Council and say "hey, I found a wicked ship. Hang there for a minute and I'll swing by so you can scope it".

By the time Sovereign decided to attack (again, if I'm not mistaken) Shepard was already investigating Saren on the Council's orders and has gathered some evidence against him.

 

ME1 Exploration Drinking Game: Explore the galaxy and take a shot every time a planet is either a captured object or tidally locked. Take two if it's a tidally locked captured gas giant within the habitable zone of it's star (astronomy fail).

I'm not very educated in the field of astronomy, but I do agree that too many of the planets were gas giants. Unfortunately, that one remains consistent in ME2.

 

Or how about this? Why did the Protheans build a mass relay and then stick it 15 miles away at the end of their sewer system.

Sewer system!? How do you figure that?

 

If you want to talk about plot inconsistencies, a bigger one is the whole 50 thousand year harvesting cycle. It would make much more sense if it was every 50 million years. Apparently evolution in the ME universe is on speed or something.

OK, this I have to agree with.

 

EDIT: Actually, what Alkonium says makes sense.

[mimartin]

That Prothean Orb in ME1 that showed that the Protheans were studying early man, to me at least, pretty much explains that the Reapers do not harvest all life in the galaxy, but only life that has evolved beyond a certain technological point. If they had harvested all life when they killed the Protheans then Shepard would not be a thorn in their side now. They may want to rethink their strategy for future harvest.

[Alkonium]

That Prothean Orb in ME1 that showed that the Protheans were studying early man, to me at least, pretty much explains that the Reapers do not harvest all life in the galaxy, but only life that has evolved beyond a certain technological point. If they had harvested all life when they killed the Protheans then Shepard would not be a thorn in their side now. They may want to rethink their strategy for future harvest.

 

Except that there's an even bigger flaw in that. If they harvest all life, then they can only do it once, meaning they'd be unable to complete their goal, which whatever it is, seems to involve technology beyond that point.

 

Compare them to the Wraith in Stargate Atlantis. They could probably feed on every human in Pegasus if they wanted out, but once they did, it wouldn't take long for them starve after that.

 

I know, a bit of a double edged sword.

[Achilles]

I don't remember Feros' decription, but I doubt the entire surface is a Prothean ruin. More likely that there are many uncovered Prothean ruins on the planet's surface. Again, don't remember the planet's description/codex entry so I can't be certain (and I'm too lazy to look at the moment ).

 

Typed "Feros" into google and clicked on the first link:

 

"The ExoGeni Corporation has founded a pilot colony on Feros to explore the Prothean ruins that blanket two-thirds of the planet's land mass." - Codex via Wikia

 

Close enough?

 

I still remember some details on the Thorian and if I'm not mistaken it is stated that the Thorian is spread under most of the planet's surface, so what we saw in ME is just one of its larger nodes that could have easily grown after the extermination of the Protheans.

 

Indeed there are parts of it that are spread under the surface, but you are fighting "The" Thorian. That whole episode makes even less sense unless the point is to defeat "The" Thorian.

 

I get DP's point above that it has to be there for gameplay reasons, but again, my purpose here is to point out that there schoolbus-sized inconsistencies in ME1 whereas I didn't notice nearly as many in the sequel (which is not to say that there aren't any).

 

By the time Sovereign decided to attack (again, if I'm not mistaken) Shepard was already investigating Saren on the Council's orders and has gathered some evidence against him.

 

My point is that Shepard didn't need to investigate Saren because Saren could've done X instead of Y. Granted (again mentioned above by DP), the game would've been a 10 second cutscene, but I think my point stands. We need something to do for 40 hours and I'm willing to suspend disbelief so that I can be entertained, but let's not call it a masterpiece and let's not lambaste a better writer (IMHO) for what a lesser writer (not an opinion ) did much more egregiously.

 

I'm not very educated in the field of astronomy, but I do agree that too many of the planets were gas giants. Unfortunately, that one remains consistent in ME2.

 

The problem wasn't the number of gas giants. Again, I suspect that 99% of players either didn't notice or didn't care. I did have many a' moment where I said, "Really? ANOTHER tidally locked/captured object planet?! Come on, guys!"

 

Sewer system!? How do you figure that?

Would you prefer "storm drain"? How about "gutter"

 

Seriously, I've typed a lot of stuff today that sounds like I'm trying to bust your chops and I'm really not. People like what they like and they dislike what they dislike. I'm only asking if perhaps Mac deserves a little slack since Drew didn't do much better and it was Drew's story to begin with.

 

I don't think it's any secret that I dislike Drew and consider Mac's writing to be a vast improvement for the franchise. Feel free to accuse me of being biased, but please think about what I said.

 

Thanks for the exchange

[DarthParametric]

As I've said before, I find it interesting that you can be so sure of the awesomeness vs fail of two writers when neither wrote either game by themselves, and both worked on the second game together.

[Achilles]

As I've said before, I find it interesting that you can be so sure of the awesomeness vs fail of two writers when neither wrote either game by themselves, and both worked on the second game together.

As I've said before, the lead writer might not do all of the writing but is ultimately responsible for the writing. I find it interesting that you find it interesting that I can recognize Drew's writing style (especially since it doesn't seem to change very much from game-to-game). As you've said before, Drew was mostly focused on TOR when this was written (so "together" might not mean a whole lot).

[DarthParametric]

No, I said he obviously left at some point during development to move to TOR. What exact stage that was, I don't know. If you look at DA Origins for example, the original lead designer was Bioware veteran Brent Knowles, who decided to bail out when he saw what an abortion DA2 was shaping up to be. They then brought in Mike Laidlaw to take over. From the outside, that happened well before release, but development-wise the game was done before Knowles finally called it quits. It's possible that a similar scenario occurred with ME2. While Karpyshyn left well before release, it was likely the writing was done or very close to it when he left. Walters was presumably promoted (he was a writer on ME1) to take the reins and oversee any remaining work (I imagine there would still be some writing polishing to do during QA and such). Alternatively, it could have happened quite early on in development, but in that case it would seem odd to me to give Karpyshyn as big a credit as lead writer. Surely in that instance they'd just credit him amongst the other writers or in the special thanks section. Perhaps the truth is somewhere in between.