Sith'ari Darth Bane Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 This trailer rocks! I thought that the lightsaber duel was a lot better than any others before, it just looked more realistic IMO. As for every one who thinks Revan when seeing those masks, here is a good look of one I got from the trailer: It does look like Revan's and I too thought the first one was Revan himself. But then I remembered that in K1 and K2 there were sith masks and stabilizer masks that looked similar to Revan's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Great trailer, but I can't believe how much BioWare is whoring out to the original Star Wars feel just to get non-SW fans in. That Sith Lord dude was a total Vader rip-off, the bounty hunter earlier on a female version of Jango Fett. Like seriously, it's a huge ****ing galaxy, I'd imagine there's some variety in design, especially since Bounty Hunters don't follow a uniform or something. Pretty cool graphics and cinematickness, but the best thing I liked was the bullet-time effect. The Matrix + Star Wars = Awesome x50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathoris Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 awesome teaser. It keeps us entertained but at the same time it tells us absolutely nothing... Weak Bioware.... I hope to god they give us some more info during the play session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztalker Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Great trailer, but I can't believe how much BioWare is whoring out to the original Star Wars feel just to get non-SW fans in. That Sith Lord dude was a total Vader rip-off, the bounty hunter earlier on a female version of Jango Fett. Like seriously, it's a huge ****ing galaxy, I'd imagine there's some variety in design, especially since Bounty Hunters don't follow a uniform or something. Pretty cool graphics and cinematickness, but the best thing I liked was the bullet-time effect. The Matrix + Star Wars = Awesome x50. Q.F.T./Q.F.E. This will be cool...but why does EVERY bounty hunter have a jetpack and mandalorian-like helmet with antenna? Like the appearance of a little droid though. I hoped they wouldn't grab an R-2 design from the movies. The droid looks totally Kotor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinku Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 WOW!!!! That made my day That was probably the most exciting cinematic I have seen for a game. The slow motion, the intense battle...EVERYTHING in this totally makes up for the comic imo. I agree there could have been better music selection but that was just crazy sweet!!! Only thing is that I was hoping the bounty hunter would have had a more original design; the only way I am fine with the armor is if she was a mandalorian. OT: To bad they didn't do the Clone Wars movie like this it would have been pretty sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexrd Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Did anyone download it and watch it in full 1280 by 720 HD resolution, yet with 5.1 Surround Sound? It's like a three and a half minute movie! I did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathoris Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 http://video.ign.com/streaming/e3-2009/index.html showing TOR live in 2 mins. If you wanne see tune in! edit: Ok it was just a lame 5 min interview. No actual footage from the flash-point they are showing at E3..... *cry* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 The problem isn't with the movie itself, which was great. It's that all these little elements confirms the direction they're taking with this thing, which is a Clone Wars-PT-OT kind of setting. But let's be fair. the Original KOTORs did a lot of the same thing. And this video is just awesome. How can they come out with something like this and then have something like that **** online comic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltiades Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 But let's be fair. the Original KOTORs did a lot of the same thing. At least they tried to be different. And I thought they succeeded well in doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saenjaina Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Fantastic trailer. How I wish I could have been there to the live presentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexrd Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 OT: To bad they didn't do the Clone Wars movie like this it would have been pretty sweet Completely agree. It would be a wonderful present to the old Star Wars fans. (like me ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saenjaina Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 But I guess that Clone Wars would also be quite that more expensive then. I take it that they saved some money when making this cinematic with no voice-acting other than that of the narrator. They then didn't even have to focus their animation on lip-sync etc. Still, I agree with you totally. It would make the Clone Wars quite more interesting to me. Well, one can only hope that there will be more of these cinematics coming in the future. I can settle with that. Oh yea, and in HD of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 The problem isn't with the movie itself, which was great. It's that all these little elements confirms the direction they're taking with this thing, which is a Clone Wars-PT-OT kind of setting. Of course, if those Star Destroyers, Tie Fighters, Darth Vader's and such aren't in the game, I won't be complaining. But I'll tell you something: I think they will. Isn't it...a Star Wars setting? Seriously, Sith warships in KotOR followed the similar design of a triangular shaped ship with a control tower. Sith fighters in one of the cinematics acted just like a Tie Fighter swarm with the added fact that it looks like it. The Ebon Hawk, a very fast freighter that carries the group of heroes? It has a circular shape? Republic fighters that look like Jedi Starfighters with wings? Master Vandar, a wise Yoda look-a-like? KotOR was masterful because it made its world feel like Star Wars. It kept several conventions going and was very successful in combining an engaging storyline in a Star Wars setting. People who knew about Star Wars but not about this time period in particular, felt instantly at home. This is what they're aiming for again. By the way, why is everyone assuming that Sith Leader is a Darth Vader rip-off? Sure, he looks like him, but is there a bald Sith wearing a breather in the KotOR time? Impossible I say! I would hardly call this cinematic anything approaching "stunning", because it's just a cinematic. It doesn't say jack about the game itself. Therefore, any criticism of the cinematic is as valid as any other opinion. All your doing is saying that since a criticism is a "nitpick", then that somehow affects the truth of the statement. Honestly, when does a pre-rendred cinematic say exactly what the game is like? For example, the intro the Empire Total War shows revolutionaries taking over a palace. Do you actually move revolutionaries into the palace? No, but the option of siding with them and taking over a country exists. The same goes for this. The cinematic is not showcasing the game's features. It is not a gameplay trailer. It is not a description of the classes. It is not an informational video. A cinematic trailer is like a visit card. It showcases what your game is about, not its actual content or gameplay. Criticisms against this cinematic in this thread weren't about the quality of the trailer; it was about how it wasn't exactly like how some people envisioned a KotOR experience. Which again, was never the point of a pre-rendered cinematic trailer. So yes, the criticism seen in this thread is not valid. If this was a gameplay trailer, then anything that was said makes perfect sense. Since this is not... Trekkies whined because the movie wasn't what the show was. We are whining because this game isn't what the KOTOR series was. Now do you see the relationship? My comment was never directed to anyone in particular, but TriggerGod perfectly understood what I meant. Complaints made about how it wasn't like the old shows and series were made...the Star Trek movie tried to seek a large audience...which leads to the next point... Great trailer, but I can't believe how much BioWare is whoring out to the original Star Wars feel just to get non-SW fans in. That Sith Lord dude was a total Vader rip-off, the bounty hunter earlier on a female version of Jango Fett. Like seriously, it's a huge ****ing galaxy, I'd imagine there's some variety in design, especially since Bounty Hunters don't follow a uniform or something. Honestly, unless you're a billionaire philanthropist, would you accept to work for a project, invest your time and money, into something that will not give you any return? The Star Trek movie understood this. The franchise was failing hard in the last few years and needed to re-invent itself in order to get a new audience. So they tried to satisfy as many old time fans as possible while gathering a new audience. The same goes for this. How many KotOR followers are there left? How many will accept the jump from SP to MMO? They have to aim for the larger audience if they want to make a buck out of this. Remember that you, Star Wars fan, are not John, Jack, Diane and Jody, everyday normal person. People enjoy Star Wars but don't necessarily care for the little details. They will enjoy the epic and somewhat familiar setting TOR gives them without thinking too much about how this or that element is too similar to something they've seen before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I completely understand your points LIAYD But people know why their problems with the game are there, we know that certain stylistic choices are made to bring in the non/casual player base... See we aren't Stupid or in denial lol, we just hoped that KotOR was well known enough to make this game recognizable without using a PT palette. I personally hoped for a deeper Old Republic vibe, but this cinematic is by far the greatest thing I've ever seen hehe. My main problems with peoples arguments... - Yea, But maybe the Clone Armor was based on this all along? - It's been 300 years dude, there could of been a massive change in Technology? - Shut up man, dont like it Leave. See those points are fine but, You might as well write QQ, stfu to me. I will play and love this game, but why make it at this point in history and play to the KotOR fan base? when stylistically, they could of easily placed it 22 years BBY and it wouldn't look out of place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I will play and love this game, but why make it at this point in history and play to the KotOR fan base? when stylistically, they could of easily placed it 22 years BBY and it wouldn't look out of place? I might be able to answer this... I believe the answer is that by the time of the PT the Sith were already almost completely driven out. It would be like SWG again... Where there shouldn't be the Sith side with so many. Placing it this far in the past opens up the ability to have a ton of Jedi and a ton of Sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I might be able to answer this... I believe the answer is that by the time of the PT the Sith... Really? same again, I'm saying Stylistically man, I know the Bloody Sith arent an Army in 22 bby fgs, I'm just using it as an example that they have made no effort to differentiate it from a much later era. again, just so I dont get the same argument again, I'm talking about looks, not plausible high Jedi/Sith population periods or reasons why it can all fit snugly into canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Well ok. Stylistically there are a bunch of differences that could be artibuted to it being much later... Kind of like how modern armor is similar in style to samurai armor. But is more effective against modern weapons. Just because it looks similar doesn't mean it acts similar. Heck it could have more tech built in to it. Honestly the whole KotOR idea of thousands of years in the past is kinda out of whack anyway. 200 years in the past would be fine. Then again... maybe it just takes a lot of time getting things approved for use. I mean they have a bigger government, getting government approval for things takes a lot of time... Funding has to be in place... Votes in the Galactic Senate. Then people have to figure out which campaign contributors to distribute the contracts to.. I mean They have to bid in development contracts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKA-001 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Seriously, Sith warships in KotOR followed the similar design of a triangular shaped ship with a control tower. Having a triangle-shaped warship in space for the purposes of proper firepower distribution is a reasonably basic thing to have in mind when designing such a ship. Sith fighters in one of the cinematics acted just like a Tie Fighter swarm Fighters flying around is something that's specific to TIE Fighters? The Ebon Hawk, a very fast freighter that carries the group of heroes? Star Wars has had many stories which involve freighters, ships that are fast, and ships that are used by the heroes. So what? And don't bring up the "has a slightly disk-shaped thing on the hull" point because no one would ever have compared the Ebon Hawk to the Falcon if not for the similar engine sounds. By the way, why is everyone assuming that Sith Leader is a Darth Vader rip-off? ...because it is, maybe? Sure, he looks like him, but is there a bald Sith wearing a breather in the KotOR time? Malak didn't wear a breathing apparatus. It was a metallic jaw plate. More to the point, it's more the fact that our Sith Lord friend here in the trailer has a head that's colored and shaped like the unmasked Vader, has an outfit very similar to Vader, and has a mask very similar to Vader's that makes him a ripoff, not simply the concept of a Sith with a mask or other such thing. It is true that the KotOR series did use designs and concepts that were noticeably similar to other eras of the Star Wars universe, but neither games ever shoved them down the viewer's throat as obnoxiously as TOR seems to want to. Honestly, when does a pre-rendred cinematic say exactly what the game is like? For example, the intro the Empire Total War shows revolutionaries taking over a palace. Do you actually move revolutionaries into the palace? No, but the option of siding with them and taking over a country exists. The same goes for this. The cinematic is not showcasing the game's features. It is not a gameplay trailer. It is not a description of the classes. It is not an informational video. Am I talking about what the game is like? Criticisms against this cinematic in this thread weren't about the quality of the trailer; it was about how it wasn't exactly like how some people envisioned a KotOR experience. Which again, was never the point of a pre-rendered cinematic trailer. So yes, the criticism seen in this thread is not valid. If this was a gameplay trailer, then anything that was said makes perfect sense. Since this is not... I'm not talking about the game. I'm talking about the visual style and designs which they are using, particularly in this trailer. If you think anything I said implied that I was referring to anything other than exactly what I said, then feel free to point these things out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Hunger Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Malak didn't wear a breathing apparatus. It was a metallic jaw plate. More to the point, it's more the fact that our Sith Lord friend here in the trailer has a head that's colored and shaped like the unmasked Vader, has an outfit very similar to Vader, and has a mask very similar to Vader's that makes him a ripoff, not simply the concept of a Sith with a mask or other such thing. It is true that the KotOR series did use designs and concepts that were noticeably similar to other eras of the Star Wars universe, but neither games ever shoved them down the viewer's throat as obnoxiously as TOR seems to want to. Um...first of all, how is that mask "very" similar to Vader's? Vader wore a mask that looked sort of like a skull, this is more similar to the Breather and Rebreather oxygen masks found in K1 and TSL. This guy looks much more like Malak than Vader, so I'd be considering this a Malak rip off first. Both happen to have a little bit of the unmasked Vader look, but it is Malak and not this guy who has the metallic voice mind you. Malak is a dude like Vader who was mutilated. This guy is just wearing a badass protective breathing mask and is wearing black armor somewhat more individualist than the other Sith in that battle. Second, shoving it down the viewers' throats? Are you kidding me? Is George Lucas taking his plot summary for the Clone Wars era and stuffing it into your mouth? 'Cause how do you shove something down someone's throat in a cinematic? It's entertainment! You watch it and enjoy it or you ignore it. No one is forcing you to absorb every detail, that's your doing. LucasArts can put out whatever they feel like, even Luke Skywalker as a rapper if they really felt the comedic urge. The idea that they are imposing something on you is frankly ridiculous. You take what you like and like it and ignore what you don't like. Hell feel free to criticize it, but saying that it was imposed? On topic: I have a theory. These Sith are the ones who built Malachor...right? An explanation as to why Revan's armor is so similar to the ones these Sith are using is that he may have found a suit of theirs on Malachor, really liked it, and wore it until the "Capture of Darth Revan". Therefore, the Sith haven't been copying the guy who was creating his own Sith and using the Star Forge to build up against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negative Sun Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 *Orgasms* Best teaser ever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I completely understand your points LIAYD But people know why their problems with the game are there, we know that certain stylistic choices are made to bring in the non/casual player base... See we aren't Stupid or in denial lol, we just hoped that KotOR was well known enough to make this game recognizable without using a PT palette. I personally hoped for a deeper Old Republic vibe, but this cinematic is by far the greatest thing I've ever seen hehe. My main problems with peoples arguments... - Yea, But maybe the Clone Armor was based on this all along? - It's been 300 years dude, there could of been a massive change in Technology? - Shut up man, dont like it Leave. See those points are fine but, You might as well write QQ, stfu to me. I will play and love this game, but why make it at this point in history and play to the KotOR fan base? when stylistically, they could of easily placed it 22 years BBY and it wouldn't look out of place? I think there is no such thing as a KotOR vibe. KotOR took a lot of Star Wars conventions and reused it 4000 years in the past in order to have much more freedom in story-telling. When you think about it, KotOR being 4000 years BBY makes little sense when you look at how technology barely evolved in 4 millenniums in a world where scientists and knowledge is plentiful. As far as fanbase is concerned, the original KotOR came out on the XBox about 6 years ago. KotOR has merely 2 games under its belly, the sequel garnering much less success then its predecessor. It may be a great franchise, but I think it's way too small yet to develop such a fanbase that will carry its conventions forward. This forum is not a good indicator of how the world is like. Also, I think most complaints about similarity comes from people over exposed to Star Wars. When I browse gametrailers.com quickly, I see few complaints about how it looks a lot like the OT/PT. I think that for a "casual" person, this would just be a Star Wars game, similarities flying way over their heads. I understand that it can give an OT/PT vibe, I'm not blind (or deaf for that matter, considering music was reused), but I consider it more as re-using known conventions in Star Wars, basic elements recognizable by everyone, rather then trying to make it look like the movie series. When I think about it, as KotOR and Star Wars fans, we should be able to look beyond obvious similarities to OT/PT and see the hints to the KotOR time. Yes, at first glance, the Sith Leader would look like Vader, but as KotOR fans, bald+face plate = Malak. Look closely to the bounty hunter. Red hair, wrist rocket launchers and what looks like an updated version of the KotOR heavy blaster. It seems to be a homage to both Boba/Jango Fett for the armour, its colouring, its jetpack and the flame thrower and at Mira from TSL for everything else. Having a triangle-shaped warship in space for the purposes of proper firepower distribution is a reasonably basic thing to have in mind when designing such a ship. That made no sense. Why is not every warship triangular-shaped then? Why does the Sith warship have exactly that and a protruding control tower right on the back? It is obviously reminiscent of the Imperial Star Destroyers. Fighters flying around is something that's specific to TIE Fighters? Keyword: Swarm. The point is not so much as fighters flying around, but how Sith fighters are used in swarms, similarly to Imperial Tie Fighters. Star Wars has had many stories which involve freighters, ships that are fast, and ships that are used by the heroes. So what? And don't bring up the "has a slightly disk-shaped thing on the hull" point because no one would ever have compared the Ebon Hawk to the Falcon if not for the similar engine sounds. Ok...so this very fast freighter that can break the Sith blockade, has a similar hull shape and a turret minigame where you destroy 4 pursuing Sith fighters is not similar to the Millenium Falcon? Furthermore, it's the central ship in the story, carrying the heroes? It has a bird's name? If you can't see the similarities...I don't know what else to tell you... ...because it is, maybe? Malak didn't wear a breathing apparatus. It was a metallic jaw plate. More to the point, it's more the fact that our Sith Lord friend here in the trailer has a head that's colored and shaped like the unmasked Vader, has an outfit very similar to Vader, and has a mask very similar to Vader's that makes him a ripoff, not simply the concept of a Sith with a mask or other such thing. It is true that the KotOR series did use designs and concepts that were noticeably similar to other eras of the Star Wars universe, but neither games ever shoved them down the viewer's throat as obnoxiously as TOR seems to want to. I think Lord of Hunger said it quite well. So that's all. Am I talking about what the game is like? No, but you said it wasn't stunning because it says nothing about the game itself. My point is that a cinematic trailer is not supposed to do that. It's like criticizing Schindler's List for not giving you enough laughs. I'm not talking about the game. I'm talking about the visual style and designs which they are using, particularly in this trailer. If you think anything I said implied that I was referring to anything other than exactly what I said, then feel free to point these things out. Nor did I point you out in particular. Only that, since you defended the right to criticize anything and nothing, I try to defend my point that criticizing something in the wrong context gives it much less weight if it doesn't outright show blind bitterness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Um Malak was a Vader rip off as well. Sith warships having a similar design... well if you want to talk weapon placement and attack profiles, the arrow head does make sense as it allows maximum firepower concentration to the front of the ship while allowing a slimmer(relatively) profile for return fire. However the tower on the back makes for a big target, and leaves it much more open for rear attack. Ideal shape would be a diamond shape as it allows the central control tower to be placed near mid ship so that there are enough rear guns to defend against a rear attack. Funny. I remember them even saying that the Ebon Hawk was a direct link to the Millenium Falcon. They even fall into the same pattern for their name. <long time frame> <bird name> As for the swarm... well that's not really much to go on. The original movies had the swarming to replicate the fighter plane sequences from prior movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Um Malak was a Vader rip off as well. Sith warships having a similar design... well if you want to talk weapon placement and attack profiles, the arrow head does make sense as it allows maximum firepower concentration to the front of the ship while allowing a slimmer(relatively) profile for return fire. However the tower on the back makes for a big target, and leaves it much more open for rear attack. Ideal shape would be a diamond shape as it allows the central control tower to be placed near mid ship so that there are enough rear guns to defend against a rear attack. Funny. I remember them even saying that the Ebon Hawk was a direct link to the Millenium Falcon. They even fall into the same pattern for their name. <long time frame> <bird name> As for the swarm... well that's not really much to go on. The original movies had the swarming to replicate the fighter plane sequences from prior movies. 1-Malak : Sort of...but doesn't make the guy look less like Malak. If anything, a cross between both him and Vader, but a pure rip-off of the man in black? I don't think so. 2- Triangle shape design: I understand what in terms of tactics it means, but it's not a point when you make Sith warships look like Imperial ones. If the triangle design was so successful, why was it not adapted to every single ship after the KotOR time? Choosing it to look like it does is a design choice is to pay homage to Star Destroyers, more then an analysis of space fleet tactics. 3- Sith Fighter swarms Well, I forgot to mention that it follows the basic design of the Tie Fighter: a central pod with wings linked to it. Their color scheme ressembles Tie Fighters too. The swarm look is similar to what Tie Fighters did in opposition to how Rebel Fighters behaved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 1 Yeah just pointing out that even KotOR "borrowed" from the movies. 2 Sith warships are designed for attack. Not very good on defense... But you're right. It seems more like a throw back to the ISD's. 3 Makes sense though.. Kinda like how P38 drivers used to have the lead shooter, and the follower defending his back. It also provides fewer targets for the opposition. You can focus more fire on a target that way. Rebels were more about defensive tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 This forum is not a good indicator of how the world is like. The rest of your post was fine but this kind of stuck out a bit lol, Please refrain from making out I have no idea of "How the World is like", and my only knowledge and experiences of life and Star wars are from this Forum, I was a Star Wars fan for 20+ years before i even knew this Forum existed, and followed the Old Republic era (TOTJ) since 1994. Carry on good sir/ma'am /rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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