Obsidian CEO still wants to make KotOR 3

[BlazingPhoenix]

I liked TSL even though it did not have the amount of finished stuff that KOTOR1 did. I hate the fact that Obsidian didn't get enough time to finish it. I hate that this happens with a lot of the newer games, they always have a set release date and not enough time to let the developers explore with their creativity.

[Wookiee Rrudolf]

@Darth InSidious I would agree with point 2 only. Lack of stunning plot twist is the biggest flaw of KotOR 2. As for the other points... Well the gaming industry is dividing into "Mature Gamer" piece and "Kid with console/PC" piece. Star Wars was always supposed to be E or T rated (in my country 12+). I think that TSL was too mature for kids of that age (they didn't understand its story) and next games' story would be more suitable for them - making them shiny, rainbows and pink unicorns instead of dark like in TSL.

[Endorenna]

Okay, I just read through this thread, and I have one question.

 

Why are y'all saying that Bioware is ignoring TSL? TOR is based on the True Sith, who were introduced in TSL! Sure, they haven't mentioned the Exile, but think of it this way--if you were living in the Star Wars galaxy, you would've heard of Revan, because Revan almost destroyed the Republic. No one in the Star Wars galaxy has heard of or even cares about the Exile. It only makes sense to have a lot more references to Revan than to the Exile. I'm sure there'll be a few references to her later in development.

[Wookiee Rrudolf]

if you were living in the Star Wars galaxy, you would've heard of Revan, because Revan almost destroyed the Republic. No one in the Star Wars galaxy has heard of or even cares about the Exile. It only makes sense to have a lot more references to Revan than to the Exile.

Of course Revan is an icon and Great Hero of the Republic. But Exile should also be well known. She was the Last of the Jedi after Jedi Civil War (even though through the game there are other Jedi she ends up being the last one) and the one who rebuilt the Jedi Order. Not mentioning the Exile in TOR would be like not mentioning Skywalker in Legacy Era (OK, maybe I exaggerated a bit ).

[Endorenna]

Of course Revan is an icon and Great Hero of the Republic. But Exile should also be well known. She was the Last of the Jedi after Jedi Civil War (even though through the game there are other Jedi she ends up being the last one) and the one who rebuilt the Jedi Order. Not mentioning the Exile in TOR would be like not mentioning Skywalker in Legacy Era (OK, maybe I exaggerated a bit ).

 

I never said there wouldn't be any referances to her, just not as many. They'll appear as the game develops. The Exile wouldn't be as well known as, say, Atton, because she went off to the Unknown regions immediately after Malachor blew up. Atton and the other companion Jedi went back and rebuilt the Order, not the Exile.

 

@Darth Insidious--As far as the stunning plot twist...well, I saw it coming about half-way through my first conversation with Carth (in the apartment on Taris). Never seemed too spectacular to me.

[Darth InSidious]

Apparently lucasforums is immune to sarcasm.

[Mono_Giganto]

2) lacked a STUNNING PLOT TWIST;

 

Honestly, so many games try to insert half-hearted plot twists these days, that not having a twist, in itself, is a twist.

[jrrtoken]

I would agree with point 2 only. Lack of stunning plot twist is the biggest flaw of KotOR 2. As for the other points... Well the gaming industry is dividing into "Mature Gamer" piece and "Kid with console/PC" piece. Star Wars was always supposed to be E or T rated (in my country 12+). I think that TSL was too mature for kids of that age (they didn't understand its story) and next games' story would be more suitable for them - making them shiny, rainbows and pink unicorns instead of dark like in TSL.

I've introduced my 8-year-old nephew to K2, after K1, of course. He loved K1, mind you, but he enamored. Now, mind you, he is most likely more intelligent than his other peers, regardless of playing K2, but he's still a kid at heart, and for him to enjoy and understand the story (Well, at least that's from my observations) that's as "mature" as that, it's quite an impressive feat for something so deep.

 

It goes to show you that Star Wars does not have to be a watered-down ANH-clone for the ageless masses to enjoy it; Star Wars can be as deep and intricate as any other university-level literature.

[Darth InSidious]

Honestly, so many games try to insert half-hearted plot twists these days, that not having a twist, in itself, is a twist.

 

Oh, absolutely. Which is why I love Kreia's line about it so much:

Perhaps you were expecting some surprise, for me to reveal a secret that had eluded you, something that would change your perspective of events, shatter you to your core. There is no great revelation, no great secret. There is only you.

 

Although that said, I thought ME's lack of one didn't help it at all.

[Endorenna]

Apparently lucasforums is immune to sarcasm.

 

Wow, people on Lucasforums are immune to return sarcasm.

[Allronix]

Actually, the reasons it ticked me off?

 

1. Bugs.

 

To quote a gamer’s classic flick, “The system’s got more bugs than a bait store.” The damn game crashed every two hours (even without mods, and even on my brother in law’s X-box!), Revan’s gender changed three times in one conversation, conversation trees broke frequently, and quests were left unsolvable.

 

2. Unlikable characters

 

With K1, the characters are the central attraction. You got attached to them, cared about them. I caught myself avoiding a potentially DS action saying “Not in front of the kid, she’s had enough bad examples.” Or “I don’t want to give Carth any more reason to distrust me.” I loved listening to their stories. I wanted to give Juhani a hug. I wanted to listen to Jolee’s flippant riddles and Canderous’s warrior-bard retelling of his battles. I choked up when I wasn’t able to prevent Bastila from committing suicide by saber brawl.

 

By contrast, I really didn’t want to spend any time with the K2 cast. I found them disquieting, unpleasant, in dire need of a padded room, or all of the above. Juhani had her issues, but she was nowhere near as much a mess as Visas. I couldn’t pry Bao-Dur out of his shell. Handmaiden? You fight in the buff, and have a daddy fetish. Lovely, female gamers obviously weren’t a priority to Obsidian. Mical was a GREAT character concept, and he cleans up in fanfic. In game? You talk to him twice, Jedi him up, and that’s the end of it. Ditto with Mira. Atton needed to be sharing a cell with Gary Ridgeway. He totally came off as a sociopath. And then there’s Kreia. Force Bond or not, I was ready to shove her out an airlock multiple times. Everything out of her mouth was some snide remark about the others, some lesson on manipulation, or some lecture on how you didn’t meet her standards without so much as an option to tell her to sit on her lightsaber. Even better was how they sniped and backstabbed one another for the Exile’s favor like courtiers around a king.

 

I didn’t like them. I didn’t want to be around them. I found myself thinking more about how to manipulate the influence system over them than wanting to help them. If K1 was Baulder’s Gate with lightsabers, this was Blake’s 7 or Watchmen with lightsabers.

 

 

3. The feeling of futility

 

Not only was the company unpleasant, the trip was pointless. Save the Jedi Masters or kill them? Doesn’t matter. They still end up dead. Side with Czerka or the Ithorians? Doesn’t matter. Try changing things on Nar Shadaa? The level of futility borders on black comedy. Korriban? Nothing you choose really matters, either. It was also nice of them to go out of their way to take a gigantic whiz all over anything done in the first game. The Jedi? Dead, and their name in ruins. Korriban? A wasteland. The Republic? Still a mess. Just to add insult to injury, add things like Dustil being left to die/go insane in a Korriban tomb, Revan’s skull being used as Nihilus’s hood ornament, and the heroes that do return being a shadow of their K1 selves (with the exception of T3, who grew a personality).

 

Oh, and the complete this exercise in wasted time, you have one long, incoherent fight scene that tries and fails to wrap up loose ends, culminating in reaching the aforementioned old hag and her telling you bluntly that there is no point or big revelation, followed by some Goddess of Exposition foretelling before you either let her die with a shred of dignity or gleefully pitch her into a crater.

 

If I’m going to spend 50+ hours getting ripped off, I’ll do it at a casino. At least I can get a couple cheap martinis while I’m at it. Sadly, the rest of the GFFA seems to be following the tone of K2 with the Vong laying waste to everything in site, Kreia’s reincarnation as Vergere, Darth bleeping Caedus…and now, the Legacy series where Cade Skywalker is a drug-addled nihilist that makes Cantina!Han look like a Big Damn Hero, all the while pretending to pass off sheer cynical garbage as “deep.”

[Endorenna]

2. Unlikable characters

 

With K1, the characters are the central attraction. You got attached to them, cared about them. I caught myself avoiding a potentially DS action saying “Not in front of the kid, she’s had enough bad examples.” Or “I don’t want to give Carth any more reason to distrust me.” I loved listening to their stories. I wanted to give Juhani a hug. I wanted to listen to Jolee’s flippant riddles and Canderous’s warrior-bard retelling of his battles. I choked up when I wasn’t able to prevent Bastila from committing suicide by saber brawl.

 

By contrast, I really didn’t want to spend any time with the K2 cast. I found them disquieting, unpleasant, in dire need of a padded room, or all of the above. Juhani had her issues, but she was nowhere near as much a mess as Visas. I couldn’t pry Bao-Dur out of his shell. Handmaiden? You fight in the buff, and have a daddy fetish. Lovely, female gamers obviously weren’t a priority to Obsidian. Mical was a GREAT character concept, and he cleans up in fanfic. In game? You talk to him twice, Jedi him up, and that’s the end of it. Ditto with Mira. Atton needed to be sharing a cell with Gary Ridgeway. He totally came off as a sociopath. And then there’s Kreia. Force Bond or not, I was ready to shove her out an airlock multiple times. Everything out of her mouth was some snide remark about the others, some lesson on manipulation, or some lecture on how you didn’t meet her standards without so much as an option to tell her to sit on her lightsaber. Even better was how they sniped and backstabbed one another for the Exile’s favor like courtiers around a king.

 

I didn’t like them. I didn’t want to be around them. I found myself thinking more about how to manipulate the influence system over them than wanting to help them. If K1 was Baulder’s Gate with lightsabers, this was Blake’s 7 or Watchmen with lightsabers.

 

 

3. The feeling of futility

 

Not only was the company unpleasant, the trip was pointless. Save the Jedi Masters or kill them? Doesn’t matter. They still end up dead. Side with Czerka or the Ithorians? Doesn’t matter. Try changing things on Nar Shadaa? The level of futility borders on black comedy. Korriban? Nothing you choose really matters, either. It was also nice of them to go out of their way to take a gigantic whiz all over anything done in the first game. The Jedi? Dead, and their name in ruins. Korriban? A wasteland. The Republic? Still a mess. Just to add insult to injury, add things like Dustil being left to die/go insane in a Korriban tomb, Revan’s skull being used as Nihilus’s hood ornament, and the heroes that do return being a shadow of their K1 selves (with the exception of T3, who grew a personality).

 

Oh, and the complete this exercise in wasted time, you have one long, incoherent fight scene that tries and fails to wrap up loose ends, culminating in reaching the aforementioned old hag and her telling you bluntly that there is no point or big revelation, followed by some Goddess of Exposition foretelling before you either let her die with a shred of dignity or gleefully pitch her into a crater.

 

These were the very reasons I like TSL...except in K1, I really loathed all the characters but Trask, Jolee, and Mission. I liked it when I got to the end of TSL and there was no 'big secret to making everything right'. I liked that in the end, there was nothing I could do to save the Masters. The only part I didn't like was Kreia not being terribly hard to kill...oh, yea, and Disciple. I coulda done without the Disciple. -_- He was boring.

[Laar_Dha]

@Allronix

 

Wow! That was amazing! :thmbup1:That is probably one of the best, pithy summations of the games I have ever read. Now, I didn't dislike K2 nearly as much as you apparently did, but you make some very good points. I actually found Atton interesting in a dark, sinister sort of way, and Bao-Dur was alright if you could trigger the more in-depth dialogs, but the rest of the characters were pretty darn uninteresting. I found the Disciple and the Handmaiden particularly irritating and avoided them as much as possible.

I found it really frustrating that almost all situations ended in mass slaughter; it would have been nice every once in a while to convince at least a few people to change their ways so you could leave them alive. Granted K1 also had periods of wading through masses of enemies, but you could sometimes make it through a quest with a reasonable body count (i.e. You don't have to massacre all the sand people).

Although I can't argue with anything you said, I have to admit I still enjoyed a lot of the game and have willingly played it through a half-dozen times. I do like the improvements to the game interface that Obsidian added; K1's was good, Obsidian's was better. I just felt I had to give a bravo to a really well-written critique.

[Allronix]

If I do play K2, the only satisfying path I find is a Dark Side Male. That way, you totally revel in the bleak atmosphere, and the nihilistic tone of the whole thing works great. The crew's a bunch of wankers and gits? Hey, they get just the captain they deserve. Manipulate them and play them off one another in competition for your favor? Sure thing. Nothing you do matters? Well, then, raise hell, leave disaster in your wake, and embrace the void when it comes for you.

[Darth InSidious]

Actually, the reasons it ticked me off?

 

1. Bugs.

 

To quote a gamer’s classic flick, “The system’s got more bugs than a bait store.” The damn game crashed every two hours (even without mods, and even on my brother in law’s X-box!), Revan’s gender changed three times in one conversation, conversation trees broke frequently, and quests were left unsolvable.

Given just how buggy K1 was at release, that's hardly fair comment. It took Bioware a three patches to make the game (mostly) run anywhere close to smoothly. At one point, I remember the game crashing at almost every area transition.

 

 

2. Unlikable characters

 

With K1, the characters are the central attraction. You got attached to them, cared about them. I caught myself avoiding a potentially DS action saying “Not in front of the kid, she’s had enough bad examples.” Or “I don’t want to give Carth any more reason to distrust me.” I loved listening to their stories. I wanted to give Juhani a hug. I wanted to listen to Jolee’s flippant riddles and Canderous’s warrior-bard retelling of his battles. I choked up when I wasn’t able to prevent Bastila from committing suicide by saber brawl.

I can only put that down to bad taste, given how two-dimensional and clichéd they were. Oh, no, they had personalities that weren't cheap archetypes. How dreadful.

 

By contrast, I really didn’t want to spend any time with the K2 cast. I found them disquieting, unpleasant, in dire need of a padded room, or all of the above.

Heaven forfend that entertainment should challenge us.

Juhani had her issues,

Hahahaha, no she didn't. She was evil and then became Ms Goody-Goody in two seconds flat becauses you flattered her, and then spent the rest of the game in self-pity. That isn't "issues". That's navel-gazing, teenage bull****.

 

but she was nowhere near as much a mess as Visas.

Well, no. Having dealt with people with screwed-up pasts, Visas is actually remotely credible as someone with "issues". Unlike Ms. Emobull**** "Waa, daddy made me tidy my room, I'mma go slit my wrists" in K1.

 

I couldn’t pry Bao-Dur out of his shell.

The Bao-Dur who talks at noteable length about his crippling guilt and being overshadowed by the past? Or the Bao-Dur who is still calling you "General" ten years after the end of the war?

 

Handmaiden? You fight in the buff, and have a daddy fetish. Lovely, female gamers obviously weren’t a priority to Obsidian.

Which is why she's available to female characters, of course. Well done avoiding her character to have a dig at Obsidian though. After all, we wouldn't want the actual nature of the game to get in the way of your rant, would we?

 

But just in case we do need to spell this one out, Handmaiden doesn't "have a daddy fetish"; she's obsessed with the thought of being a bastard, and, funnily enough why her father did what he did. But we've already established you want cheap, two-dimensional archetypes rather than depth. You must have loved Mass Effect.

 

Mical was a GREAT character concept, and he cleans up in fanfic. In game? You talk to him twice, Jedi him up, and that’s the end of it. Ditto with Mira.

Unlike in KotOR, where once you do the banal little sidequest they have nothing more to say to you but the same two lines.

 

Atton needed to be sharing a cell with Gary Ridgeway. He totally came off as a sociopath.

So he's worse than Canderous, a mass-murderer without a shred of remorse or thought for those that he killed for some twisted idea of honour? Riiiiight.

 

And then there’s Kreia. Force Bond or not, I was ready to shove her out an airlock multiple times. Everything out of her mouth was some snide remark about the others, some lesson on manipulation, or some lecture on how you didn’t meet her standards without so much as an option to tell her to sit on her lightsaber. Even better was how they sniped and backstabbed one another for the Exile’s favor like courtiers around a king.

 

Did you actually miss the point, and the dialogue options telling her to shut up with it, or are you simply incapable of an argument that sticks with the facts?

 

She's supposed to be your teacher and.. you object that she chimes in with opinions. She also only questions you if you start leaning to one side like... a two-dimensional archetype... and doesn't say you "didn't meet her standards" at any point in the game.

 

I didn’t like them. I didn’t want to be around them. I found myself thinking more about how to manipulate the influence system over them than wanting to help them. If K1 was Baulder’s Gate with lightsabers, this was Blake’s 7 or Watchmen with lightsabers.

Well done on the backwards compliment.

 

 

3. The feeling of futility

 

Not only was the company unpleasant, the trip was pointless. Save the Jedi Masters or kill them? Doesn’t matter. They still end up dead. Side with Czerka or the Ithorians? Doesn’t matter. Try changing things on Nar Shadaa? The level of futility borders on black comedy. Korriban? Nothing you choose really matters, either.

Save or kill the giant fish? Irrelevant. Kill Uthar or Yuthura? Irrelevant. Side with Chuundar or the dad? Irrelevant. Save or kill the sand people? Irrelevant. First you blame them for departing from the formula, then for sticking to it too much.

 

It was also nice of them to go out of their way to take a gigantic whiz all over anything done in the first game.

Yes, how dare they show consequences to things which happen. How appalling of Obsidian.

 

The Jedi? Dead, and their name in ruins. Korriban? A wasteland. The Republic? Still a mess. Just to add insult to injury, add things like Dustil being left to die/go insane in a Korriban tomb,

Oh, no, some two-dimensional character with the personality of a cardboard cut-out went and died in a tomb! Since it's never explicitly stated that it's him, though, congrats on critiquing an element that was cut because it didn't belong in the final draft rather than for time, though.

 

Revan’s skull being used as Nihilus’s hood ornament,

Is never mentioned in the game, so pulling a developer's comment from an interview on the background of an item which doesn't even fit in the game's story as presented in the game as though it belongs to the story is neither accurate nor fair.

 

I've left out the rest of your post, since it's nothing more than a rant.

[Q]

TSL. Still igniting passions (both for and against) almost 5 years later.

 

If there ever is a KotOR 3, I'd be willing to bet that it won't be made by Obsidian.

[Weavel]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

Blasphemy!!!!

 

I won't by it if OE doesn't do it.

[Canderis]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

Blasphemy!!!!

 

I won't by it if OE doesn't do it.

 

Why? They killed the 2nd game.. Oh.. wait that was LA.

 

If any company makes it I will be happy.

[Allronix]

QUOTE=Darth InSidious;2664806]Given just how buggy K1 was at release, that's hardly fair comment. It took Bioware a three patches to make the game (mostly) run anywhere close to smoothly. At one point, I remember the game crashing at almost every area transition.

[/Quote]

 

K1 didn't crash the bro in law's X-Box, no matter how many people played it. (And EVERYONE that came over wanted to give it a spin), and it only crashed my system before I upgraded my graphics card. Seeing as the graphics card I had was bogus, I can't hold it against them.

 

And at least they patched the damn thing! No luck on K2 with patches unless you want to fire up Fred Tetra's tool and attempt it yourself.

 

 

I can only put that down to bad taste, given how two-dimensional and clichéd they were. Oh, no, they had personalities that weren't cheap archetypes. How dreadful.

 

Heaven forfend that entertainment should challenge us.

[/Quote]

 

Reality TV is full of people who bicker, backstab, and need a shrink...but I wouldn't exactly call it "challenging entertainment." Being rude, snotty, snide, nasty and offensive doesn't make you "deep," it just makes you the kind of person no one wants over for poker night.

 

And "cheap archetypes?" Please, like Mira wasn’t the stereotype “Tough chick,” Mical not the stereotypical “noble rube?” Hanharr was a “mad dog.” Atton was a shady, weak, but cunning rat off the same family tree as Alex Krycek or a Tarintino cast member. GO-TO was the MCP's cousin ("With the data I've downloaded, I can riun things 900 to 1200 times better than a normal human") and My reaction to Kreia was to snark that someone left the Box of Pain and Gom Jabbar in her other robes. They were no more or less archetypical than the K1 cast, just a lot less pleasant to be around.

 

And re: Canderous…I’ve been spoiled heavily by the old Han Solo books and Karen Traviss. The Mando’a may be battle-obsessed, and bloodthirsty. Yet, they also have a distinct code of honor & dignity. Canderous and Boba Fett were definitely not on the side of angels, but you knew where they stood, why, and that there were lines they flat-out wouldn’t cross.

 

Besides, if you hate "archetype" characters, then what brings you to the GFFA in the first place? Jedi George went through Joseph Campbell's mythology catalog with a highlighter pen and totally built the universe around it. He totally admits to ripping off as much "archetype" as he could get away with, and a few he probably shouldn't have. Since K1 was shooting for the Classic Trilogy feel, it was totally appropriate.

 

(Likewise, with Mass Effect, it had a very Heinlein meets Joss Wheadon feel, so I wasn't too shocked at the attitudes I ran across and the pointless cast deaths)

 

And K2 was such a catalog of "OOOOOHHH, we're so dark and edgy!111!!" posturing that is oh-so-trendy. A crapsack world full of nasty people that just gets bleaker and bleaker? Please, that’s just as much a cliché. It’s bloody easy to make a “dark, edgy” world. Just have a big metropolis where it’s always night and always raining, the criminals are too rich and well-placed, the cops are paid off, folks are greedy, cowardly, or apathetic, and any good deed or honorable person is dragged into the nearest streetlight and interrogated until it admits ulterior motive or dismissed as a joke.

 

It’s Gotham City. It’s Sweeny Todd’s and V’s London. Pick any cyberpunk novel at random. It’s Bladerunner and Terminator. “Forget it, Jake, it’s Chinatown.” It’s almost every damn movie made in the mid 70’s, and most SF TV series from the last 10-15 years, with a fanbase populated by black turtlenecks and wire-rim glasses sneering how superior they are for liking to wallow in drek. I had enough of that pretentious garbage in film school.

 

I mentioned the cut content because it tells me what Obsidian was planning and what else would have been ruined if they had the time. The upside, I guess would have been something resembling an ending.

 

If Obsidian makes a K3, I’m hoping they:

 

1. Get enough time to finish the story and bug test it, or come out with necessary patches.

2. Remember that female gamers play this stuff and would appreciate a little less gratuitous cleavage and half-naked chicks. (Or at least give us some half-naked men, too)!

3. Have a point to the story, or some likeable characters (not holding my breath here – I’ve seen Planetscape)

[Endorenna]

Given just how buggy K1 was at release, that's hardly fair comment. It took Bioware a three patches to make the game (mostly) run anywhere close to smoothly. At one point, I remember the game crashing at almost every area transition.

 

 

 

I can only put that down to bad taste, given how two-dimensional and clichéd they were. Oh, no, they had personalities that weren't cheap archetypes. How dreadful.

 

 

Heaven forfend that entertainment should challenge us.

 

Hahahaha, no she didn't. She was evil and then became Ms Goody-Goody in two seconds flat becauses you flattered her, and then spent the rest of the game in self-pity. That isn't "issues". That's navel-gazing, teenage bull****.

 

 

Well, no. Having dealt with people with screwed-up pasts, Visas is actually remotely credible as someone with "issues". Unlike Ms. Emobull**** "Waa, daddy made me tidy my room, I'mma go slit my wrists" in K1.

 

 

The Bao-Dur who talks at noteable length about his crippling guilt and being overshadowed by the past? Or the Bao-Dur who is still calling you "General" ten years after the end of the war?

 

 

Which is why she's available to female characters, of course. Well done avoiding her character to have a dig at Obsidian though. After all, we wouldn't want the actual nature of the game to get in the way of your rant, would we?

 

But just in case we do need to spell this one out, Handmaiden doesn't "have a daddy fetish"; she's obsessed with the thought of being a bastard, and, funnily enough why her father did what he did. But we've already established you want cheap, two-dimensional archetypes rather than depth. You must have loved Mass Effect.

 

 

Unlike in KotOR, where once you do the banal little sidequest they have nothing more to say to you but the same two lines.

 

 

So he's worse than Canderous, a mass-murderer without a shred of remorse or thought for those that he killed for some twisted idea of honour? Riiiiight.

 

 

 

Did you actually miss the point, and the dialogue options telling her to shut up with it, or are you simply incapable of an argument that sticks with the facts?

 

She's supposed to be your teacher and.. you object that she chimes in with opinions. She also only questions you if you start leaning to one side like... a two-dimensional archetype... and doesn't say you "didn't meet her standards" at any point in the game.

 

 

Well done on the backwards compliment.

 

 

 

Save or kill the giant fish? Irrelevant. Kill Uthar or Yuthura? Irrelevant. Side with Chuundar or the dad? Irrelevant. Save or kill the sand people? Irrelevant. First you blame them for departing from the formula, then for sticking to it too much.

 

 

Yes, how dare they show consequences to things which happen. How appalling of Obsidian.

 

 

Oh, no, some two-dimensional character with the personality of a cardboard cut-out went and died in a tomb! Since it's never explicitly stated that it's him, though, congrats on critiquing an element that was cut because it didn't belong in the final draft rather than for time, though.

 

 

Is never mentioned in the game, so pulling a developer's comment from an interview on the background of an item which doesn't even fit in the game's story as presented in the game as though it belongs to the story is neither accurate nor fair.

 

I've left out the rest of your post, since it's nothing more than a rant.

 

You, sir, just stated pretty much every thought I had far better than I could (or would take the time to do--I'm too lazy ).

 

@Allronix

 

It's different cliches. Big deal. I happen to be one of those people who likes Terminator and Batmam. Opinions, tastes, etc...

[Darth Avlectus]

And re: Canderous…I’ve been spoiled heavily by the old Han Solo books and Karen Traviss. The Mando’a may be battle-obsessed, and bloodthirsty. Yet, they also have a distinct code of honor & dignity. Canderous and Boba Fett were definitely not on the side of angels, but you knew where they stood, why, and that there were lines they flat-out wouldn’t cross.

 

Uh-huh. That's your *only* reasons.

 

If Obsidian makes a K3, I’m hoping they:

 

1. Get enough time to finish the story and bug test it, or come out with necessary patches.

You and just about every fan of the KOTOR series.

 

2. Remember that female gamers play this stuff and would appreciate a little less gratuitous cleavage and half-naked chicks. (Or at least give us some half-naked men, too)!

 

Awww. You haven't exploited that rumored "Atton Dancer" glitch in TSL yet? It's pretty cool to make him look like the douchebag he is. But I have found some willing guys in the mean time to fill your request.

Show spoiler

(hidden content - requires Javascript to show)

 

 

3. Have a point to the story, or some likeable characters (not holding my breath here – I’ve seen Planetscape)

 

Waaah--you don't like the modern day games! ZOMG fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

 

...*Runs away*

[moda]

here here. TSL was to me the best starwars rpg ever made, at least in the underlying themes. a game with a 12 month development cycle is never going to be the best it can be. kotor, was the standard rehashing of the starwars mainstay... TSL was going deeper, TSL was more about the ideas than the story, it debated the ideology instead of the reality. that is what made it a better game, even if it was only half complete

[Shem]

After all, is it not TSL's concept of the true Sith who have finally revealed themselves and come out of hiding to conquer the Republic?

Well, I think I need to step in and correct many of you that think this as TSL only went into more detail about the True Sith, but Canderous talked about them in K1.

 

 

Here we have Canderous talking about why the Mandalorians attacked the Republic. We know that Revan and Malak weren't Sith yet.

 

Later on when you talk to Canderous, he mentions the Sith retreating back to their Empire. It's obvious that he doesn't know the difference between Revan's Sith and the True Sith at the time when you read the end of his dialogue.

 

Anyway, thought I would clear that up.

[Q]

Yeah, I noticed how those dialogs suddenly became even more important when I replayed KotOR after playing TSL.

[Giant Graffiti]

Or at least give us some half-naked men, too!

Uh, Sion.