Monkey Island 2 Remake

[Snugglecakes]

For sure. I just thought Guybrush looked really, really skinny and young in CMI, particularly after he seemed to "grow up" in MI2. It's not so much the style as the gangly-legged Guybrush, which is something that has persisted through to TMI.

 

Totally agree on the islands and characters. CMI was very rich and lush looking. much like MI2. EMI looked like something I drew at school. TMI is certainly getting back there, and improved as the episodes came out. I'm sure there's more to come.

[KestrelPi]

See, while I can see where you're coming from Snugglecakes, and I really can, you seem to think that it's up to you to decide what is and isn't Monkey Island, and where everything falls on a 'correct' and 'incorrect' spectrum as pertaining to Monkey Island-ness.

 

But you're not the only fan here. You're certainly not the only fan who is enough of a fan to know right from wrong. When something has been around for 20 years, it doesn't stay the same, simple as that. Developers change, people come and go but also WE change.

 

I know for a fact that there is nothing that any developer could do to make me feel the same way I felt about Monkey Island as I did in 1990, 1991 or even 1997. What they can do is show me that they also care a lot for the source material. That way I know that they are doing their best to get across whatever their idea of Monkey Island is, and even if it doesn't 100% match mine, it's an honest, loving interpretation.

 

That's why I loved CMI, that's why although I thought EMI strayed from my ideas about Monkey Island wildly and wasn't very respectful to the canon in its later chapters, I refuse to be so petty as to dismiss it as 'not an MI' game. It's why I'm fully on board with Telltale's efforts with the series and expect that as usual they will only get better if they get an opportunity for another series. And why I really appreciate the work put into these special editions, especially this new one.

 

I really don't think there's a right interpretation, only a -respectful- one, and as far as I can see everyone who has been working on the franchise lately has been very respectful indeed.

[Snugglecakes]

SurplusGamer?

 

I never said anything of the sort? We are allowed to HAVE an opinion here aren't we?

 

We are discussing, that's why this forum is here. If we weren't excited about the SE, we wouldn't bother posting here. I never professed to be "the only fan who is enough of a fan to know right from wrong". In fact I explained earlier that the blocky, voiceless old games left them open to vastly different interpretation by everyone and that it's impossible to make everyone happy.

 

I've also been full of praise for Telltale and TMI. It's brilliant.

 

I don't disagree with anything you say. I just really hate EMI! If my comments offended anyone then I apologise.

[KestrelPi]

No, you never said any of that directly, but it's a lot of what I'm getting, especially when you talk about the cartoon-ness. People annoyed because somehow LEC or others haven't managed to magically transport you back to however you felt in 1990 or whenever without seeming to acknowledge that they are asking the impossible.

 

(as for cartoony-ness I'm pretty sure that when I was 10 years old I didn't care about how cartoony MI was or wasn't I just knew I was playing an awesome game. Later they took it in a more cartoony direction, although it wasn't completely un-cartoony to start with. But I also take that in the context of where LEC as a whole was headed, stylistically, not just MI. It's a little difficult to explain.)

 

But the worst bit is being very dismissive of the idea that LEC's interpretation of MI for these special editions is just as valid as their own. And the reason it's just as valid because of the huge amounts of respect that have obviously gone into it.

 

I guess I just wish that people would stop expecting the developers to have access to their inner thoughts and feelings and do the SE exactly as they expect, and be more willing to meet the developers (who have obviously really tried to do this stuff justice) halfway.

 

Like, for example, why be worried that Elaine's clothes have changed colour? What difference does it make? Were you a massive fan of her costume before, or something? Why? They're just clothes. They probably just thought this looked better as a colour scheme on a hi-res character; I'm sure they had reasons. She's not wearing a tutu and bunny ears, so why get hung up on it?

[Snugglecakes]

I dunno... I think discussion like this is healthy. It shows that the Monkey Island universe is very much alive and well. I used to work in software development and welcomed this kind of discussion about our work. It shows that people care and are excited about something. If nobody criticizes anything, it usually means that there is so little interest in it that nobody is even paying attention. The Special Editions have been a huge success and rightly so, I will endeavour to bring that side of things out more. I guess I thought that these games are getting so much praise from everywhere else on the internet, with hardly a bad word said, but here at Mojo we have a group of quite hardcore fans and I find these discussions fascinating. I still don't see anything wrong with these conversations and if I was Mr LucasArts I'd be very pleased with all the attention.

 

All the other costumes have been "faithfully recreated", a phrase lovingly used by LucasArts over the last year. So I don't think I'm being ridiculous by questioning a total makeover for Elaine's. Would you be happy if Guybrush wore something totally different? She's a main character too.

 

People annoyed because somehow LEC or others haven't managed to magically transport you back to however you felt in 1990 or whenever without seeming to acknowledge that they are asking the impossible.

 

This is exactly what I said just a few posts ago.

[KestrelPi]

I guess I'm just more willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, because I'm very concious of bias (which is why I'm in the middle of writing this: http://nukezilla.com/2010/05/24/unconvinced-pete-the-gamers-guide-to-cognitive-bias-part-1/ ). I know that I have my own take on what makes Monkey Island monkey-islandy and I don't want to make the mistake of thinking that should be everyone's take. So I'm very willing to let them come to me with their interpretation and relaxed about any changes they might decide to make, none of that matters to me as long as I get the impression that they're respecting the source.

 

You ask 'Would you be happy if Guybrush wore something totally different?' but it isn't really a fair question as that blue coat attire has become sort of iconic and recognisable in a way that elaine's purple top never has (hence why they brought it back for TMI, and so on), so changing that would have seemed more questionable in terms of respecting the source.

[Monkey Mania]

I say if you want something your way, you got to do it yourself.

[Snugglecakes]

I never expected my take to be everyone's take, the thought never crossed my mind. I've even said so a few times. On the last page I specifically said that making everyone happy is an impossibility. I don't know why I'm getting the flack when there are others who have also been critical. I don't disagree with anything you're saying, and I've had lots of praise for the SE too. But you know how people are, the only news is bad news. Bottom line is I'm probably still going to buy 5 copies of this thing.

 

I also don't want to get the thread too far off topic so feel free to pm me!

 

Excellent article by the way.

 

P.S. I just noticed that this thread, at over 800 posts, is now the most replied-to thread of all time in the entire General Discussion section!

[KestrelPi]

Snugglecakes - I didn't really mean to single you out. There are people who do this way more than you. It was really only a few of your comments that I was responding to (like some of the stuff about cartoony-ness, and the elaine thing.)

[Megakles]

I need to be careful here but I've never been a big fan of Guybrush's voice. Dominic Armato's sheer enthusiasm and knowledge more than makes up for it, but the first time I fired up CMI I was borderline horrified. Thing is, it doesn't matter who they used, some would've hated it as we all had different ideas about how Guybrush should sound.

 

My problem with Dom's voice was that it added to this cartoon factor that crept into the MI games. It's VERY enthusiastic in places, maybe, just maybe, overdone. We're all so used to it now that it doesn't really matter that much, but I'm kinda with you on that.

 

I'm a huge fan of Dominic Armato, don't get me wrong, but not such a huge fan of Guybrush's voice. It's been 13 years though and the thought hardly crosses my mind anymore.

 

I DO however still love the plain text dialogue of the old games and I'll continue playing them forever. I'll use the reading-a-book analogy again, the blocky pixels, no voices, it lets your imagination fill in the blanks and this is why it's impossible to please everyone with the special editions.

 

Kroms: I know I'm mentioning the cartoon thing again and we'll probably never agree on it but I like you anyway because your news posts on Mojo make me laugh so much that milk comes out of my nose.

 

I agree... I always imagined the voices to be fairly deadpan.

[Snugglecakes]

I think I should say that while I don't like the cartoony path that Monkey Island has taken, it's certainly not my place to decide that it is right or wrong. If it came out that way then all apologies. I'm a fan of continuity in a series, that's all. For example I love DOTT, and Sam & Max, I have nothing against cartoons. I just would've liked to see Monkey Island remain more faithful to the environment they originally created. But that is indeed my opinion, no more, no less.

 

Megakles imagined the voices to be fairly deadpan, that's his opinion and I agree, others don't. If we all agreed on everything, this would be a very boring place! But look at the great debate and discussion these special editions have brought about. I think it's great.

 

SurplusGamer please let us know when part 2 of that piece is finished!

 

I say if you want something your way, you got to do it yourself.

 

Ain't that the truth, and if I did it myself, it would no doubt be a financial disaster because only 10 copies would be sold. To my mom.

[ThunderPeel2001]

That video is great! I'm getting quite excited now. I do agree that LeChuck's voice should be "scratchier", but I think I can live with it. Elaine's voice....... well, you know how I feel about that.

 

Several things:

1. THEY'VE CHANGED THE SCRIPT. (At least Elaine's opening line -- you'll recall I said it was a tricky line to deliver, looks like the actor/director agreed.)

2. They've added quite a bit of extra background things, which is cool, but the character's walking animation has been made too "smooth" -- They sort of "glide" across the screen now. It'd be great if they could make them feel more part of the background by the time the game is out.

3. There's far too much echo on the voices, especially in place's like Elaine's bedroom. I understand them trying to "enhance the experience", but they've gone a bit overboard.

 

It's strange you guys think of MI2 as being this super dark - I don't know, really - orgy of death. All of the darkness always struck me as being ironic. I've made a claim in the past that Monkey is a cartoon - I don't think it is, really, but it's definitely not as sardonically twisted and evil as people make it out to be.

 

Silence! There is only one thing more painful than listening to you whine on. Do you know what that is?

 

It's what I'm about to do to you...

 

First I'm going to drop you into a pit of acid.

 

Then I will then take your bones, still alive and in great pain, and make them into a chair. I will call it my screaming chair. Every morning I will sit in it and listen to you scream.

 

It's also weird you're thinking the voice acting ruined it. Just mute that stuff. It's still the same dialogue.

 

I guess you're right. It really shouldn't matter to anyone how good or bad the voice acting is.

[irishmile]

They had to change the character designs in CMI for animation purposes. The original designs couldn't be translated very efficiently into the non-pixellated look 1997 demanded.

 

As for TMI: I understand why people might take issue with it, and it is a flawed game. I'm hoping TTG get a chance to do another one, because they're now getting really good. They'll never make a huuuge one without voices and with the surreal silence that SMI and MI2 had - it just isn't feasible - but they can at least get the tone right, which they're getting very good at. I was thinking yesterday that long shots, like inside the mouth of the manatee, help with establishing ye olde feeling of olde.

 

I'm personally hoping for richer, more...alive (?) islands to visit, and more of them in number. If you take a look at CMI, for example, the background art makes you think there could be something there in the background.

 

 

Just little things like the placement of the horizon make it seem more alive. I like that. I'm also hoping for a larger number of islands, or at least rich, interesting places to visit. And maybe TTG developing their characters, because they're nice, but not...alive (the secondary ones, I mean, not DeSinge/Morgan/etc). For example, I hope Winslow never mentions a map again. Really. I want to see a new side to that guy.

 

 

 

Exactly I do not see why TTG couldn't have detailed fully painted distant backgrounds... and full 3D foregrounds.. It really highlights how small the game world is the way they do it sometimes.

[Rapp Scallion]

I don't think they've changed the script in the start of the game, I guess they only edited the dialogue for this video. It's done all the time in movie trailers, you know.

 

I don't see why they changed Elaine's colors. Saw some edits of the new Elaine with her original MI2-colors, and it looked so much better. Why change it if being true to the source material means so much to them? You know, Elaine is wearing the same outfit in the first two games. Guybrush is not. So in a way, Elaine's outfit in MI2 is more iconic for Elaine than Guybrush's coat is for Guybrush. But maybe they thought that it was a bit boring for her to look the same when the other main characters don't.

[Kroms]

Of course they didn't change the script at the beginning of the game. They're not that stupid; and besides, the leaked video from a few weeks ago had all the dialogue.

[Rosefull]

I think I should say that while I don't like the cartoony path that Monkey Island has taken, it's certainly not my place to decide that it is right or wrong. If it came out that way then all apologies. I'm a fan of continuity in a series, that's all. For example I love DOTT, and Sam & Max, I have nothing against cartoons. I just would've liked to see Monkey Island remain more faithful to the environment they originally created. But that is indeed my opinion, no more, no less.

 

Megakles imagined the voices to be fairly deadpan, that's his opinion and I agree, others don't. If we all agreed on everything, this would be a very boring place! But look at the great debate and discussion these special editions have brought about. I think it's great.

 

SurplusGamer please let us know when part 2 of that piece is finished!

 

 

 

Ain't that the truth, and if I did it myself, it would no doubt be a financial disaster because only 10 copies would be sold. To my mom.

 

Hey, I'd buy it. Haha.

 

I understand your point about seeing what it would be like for Monkey Island to kind of have the same tune throughout the series. After reflecting on my Monkey Island experience, I can see how drastically things changed from the first two to CMI (for better or worse, depending on who you're talking to), and then again in EMI (for the worse. There is no discussion here). However, I think in TMI, Telltale really seemed to try and get back to those more Monkey Island-esque roots, while still leaving it cartooney enough for people who accept the cartoon style to enjoy. It looked to me like they tried to combine the styles and tie the entire series together, essentially. An effort I appreciated.

 

I'd kind of like to see what would happen if Ron Gilbert made his own third edition of Monkey Island that more properly follows MI2, because I'll bet he probably had plans for one before he left. Maybe one that still leads properly into EMI and TMI (or at least just TMI if he wanted to cut EMI alltogether. I would); almost like an alternate chapter. It's never gonna happen, but wouldn't that be awesome?

[Kroms]

I dunno. Craig Derrick has brought up the possibility of ending the series, but I don't know if the LucasArts brass would like that. It's not like Ronzo's currently tied up with anything (we know of), anyway.

[Rosefull]

I doubt the series is gonna end just yet. At the very least, Telltale left us hanging for another sequel.

 

I was just thinking, since they're kind of on a remake spree right now, y'know?

[Monkey Mania]

Epic Battle with the voodoo lady, the true villain of the series.

[Aububuh]

Silence! There is only one thing more painful than listening to you whine on. Do you know what that is?

 

It's what I'm about to do to you...

 

First I'm going to drop you into a pit of acid.

 

Then I will then take your bones, still alive and in great pain, and make them into a chair. I will call it my screaming chair. Every morning I will sit in it and listen to you scream. Any questions?

 

 

I don't know about you, but I always thought that line was pretty funny.

[Rosefull]

Haha, yeah. Well, one of 'em. LeChuck pretty much proved he's a true villian too. I thought the evil Voodo Lady thing was interesting, though. I wonder if Telltale thought of that, or if it was something Ron had been planning for twenty years? These are the questions.

 

Though, I guess it makes sense that the Voodo Lady isn't all that great. I mean, if her true intent was to help Guybrush, then in SMI, couldn't she have just told him, "Go break the grog machine by Stan's shipyard, get a bottle of root beer, and wait by the church. When LeChuck shows up, spray him with it." Of course, then there wouldn't have been much of a game. But still.

 

EDIT @ Aububuh: Me too. I always laughed out loud at that one.

[Megakles]

Silence! There is only one thing more painful than listening to you whine on. Do you know what that is?

 

It's what I'm about to do to you...

 

First I'm going to drop you into a pit of acid.

 

Then I will then take your bones, still alive and in great pain, and make them into a chair. I will call it my screaming chair. Every morning I will sit in it and listen to you scream.

 

Delicious!

 

Monkey Island 2 is a light horror comedy. I don't see how anyone can dispute this. In the same way that Ghostbusters was - it has horror elements in it, and it treats those elements seriously while building the comedy around it.

[Monkey Mania]

Delicious!

 

Monkey Island 2 is a light horror comedy.

 

I disagree.

[OzzieMonkey]

Of course they didn't change the script at the beginning of the game. They're not that stupid; and besides, the leaked video from a few weeks ago had all the dialogue.

 

Yeah, the think I'm most worried about is if the intro music bit with the dancing monkeys has been cut. They just cannot get rid of the best rendition of the monkey island theme.

[Aububuh]

Yeah, the think I'm most worried about is if the intro music bit with the dancing monkeys has been cut. They just cannot get rid of the best rendition of the monkey island theme.

 

We've already seen the monkeys, so I don't think there's any doubt about them being in the intro. As for the theme, I trust Jesse Harlin with it, and I think it'll sound fantastic.