UK General Election 2010

[Alexrd]

David Cameron is "too" Conservative, (meaning, that he'll remove a couple of Beneficial changes to Britain, and will take the UK all the way back to the 80's)

 

How? Anyway, if I were in the UK, I would vote for the Conservatives. It's the only one that favours right-wing politics.

 

By the way, congrats for them.

[Darth InSidious]

At time of writing, Labour hold 37 seats and 31.0% of the vote, the Conservatives 21 seats and 27.9% of the vote and the Lib Dems 4 seats and 18.2% of the vote. 73 seats declared so far, ~4% swing to the Conservatives.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/

[Totenkopf]

So, now that the Tories have the edge in seats over Labour, how long do think it will take either to emerge w/a "victorious" coalition? Also, what effect do you expect to see on US-UK relations?

[Darth InSidious]

Not a fan of simple questions, Tot?

 

The Conservatives don't have enough seats for overall majority, on 306. But even together, the Liberal Democrats and Labour only have 315. With a target of 326, they might get away with further alliances with the Scottish Nationals and with Plaid Cymru (they're Welsh, for those not up on the more obscure end of British politics - it's pronounced "plied come-ree" ), they could get a further 9 seats. But that still leaves them short.

 

So failing a Lib Dem-Conservative pact, I'm going to predict a couple of days of scrabbling to win over independents and minor groups like the SNP, Sinn Fein, the DUP (who will probably go Conservative), the SDLP, and anyone else with a seat.

 

What effect this has on US-UK relations rather depends on who ends up in power.

 

Apparently, Cameron and Clegg are negotiating at the moment. A Lib-Con pact would end up with a majority at 363 seats, but it'd be weak and slow, and the real worry is that this is going to be used by some groups - the Liberal Democrats and Labour both being keen on the idea - to force through Proportional Representation, on the basis that while it can't produce decisive government, First Past the Post hasn't this time.

[Astor]

Good result (if you're Conservative) where I live - a Conservative candidate for the first time in 18 years, and in the neighbouring constituency, Mike O'Brien, a Labour health minister lost to the Conservatives by 54 votes.

 

My biggest laugh today has been reading the failed Labour candidate (a thoroughly unpleasant woman, and I don't say that simply because she's Labour) blame her defeat on Lord Ashcroft and Rupert Murdoch. If she'd have spent as much time campaigning as she does moaning, she might have actually won.

 

Apparently, Cameron and Clegg are negotiating at the moment. A Lib-Con pact would end up with a majority at 363 seats, but it'd be weak and slow, and the real worry is that this is going to be used by some groups - the Liberal Democrats and Labour both being keen on the idea - to force through Proportional Representation, on the basis that while it can't produce decisive government, First Past the Post hasn't this time.

 

Strangely, i'm not averse to a Lib-Con deal, although we won't know what it would involve, or if it's even possible for a little while yet.

 

Anything that sees Brown and his government out on its arse is fine by me.

[Darth InSidious]

I'm coming round to the idea of a Lib-Con pact; mainly because of the news that Evan Harris lost his seat, which is cheering. But also, I don't see a Lib-Lab pact going anywhere.

[Astor]

Gordon Brown resigns as Labour leader.

 

Formal talks to begin between Liberal Democrats and Labour Party

 

****.

[Totenkopf]

Well, wonder who talked him into that. IIRC he has a penchant for being quite stubborn. Good riddance to him, but I understand your sentiment, Astor.

[Salzella]

Good man. Easing the process of transfer of power, standing aside for the sake of a progressive alliance despite having no reason other than convention to do so, and meaning that the tories don't get in power. GB <3

 

David Milliband for PM...

[mur'phon]

Doesen't necessarly mean anything. Clegg is talking to Labor as much to make it clear to the Torries that his support isn't guaranteed. Brown steping down is probably as good for the Lib Dems as for Labor, simply by strenghtening Cleggs hand.

[Astor]

Good man. Easing the process of transfer of power, standing aside for the sake of a progressive alliance despite having no reason other than convention to do so

 

He was a dead man walking as it was. All he did was jump rather than be pushed.

 

As for the 'progressive rainbow coalition' (I wonder which one is Bungle?), Labour, the Liberals and parties such as the SNP and Ulster Unionists working together is, as far as I can see, a recipe for disaster.

 

No doubt Labour have offered PR to the Liberals - which was a sticking point with talks between them and the Conservatives, but both parties had agreed that the economy had to take precedence over all other matters. If the Liberals enter into a coalition with Labour simply because of an offer of PR, it makes Nick Clegg look like a fool after his talk of ensuring Britain had a 'strong, stable government' as the proposed coalition looks far from stable with a mish-mash of smaller parties and a no doubt bloody Labour leadership contest.

 

If it goes ahead, we'll be back at the polls by October, hopefully with a clear winner (of any party).

 

and meaning that the tories don't get in power.

 

Holy **** Lord Tebbit's coming and he's got a ****ing shotgun!

 

Because really, we're all fox-hunting, money stealing Thatcherite toffs.

 

David Milliband for PM...

 

Ugh.

[SW01]

As for the 'progressive rainbow coalition' (I wonder which one is Bungle?)

He just left.

 

Labour, the Liberals and parties such as the SNP and Ulster Unionists working together is, as far as I can see, a recipe for disaster.

 

I did find it amusing to imagine the Democratic Unionist Party and the SDLP, Scots Nats and Plaid Cymru working together. And moreso to imagine the Westminster government being more of a patchwork than Stormont!

 

If only a few Ulster Unionists had taken seats - they were/are in a coalition with the Tories already. But the DUP have disappointed me by buying into the media frenzy over a passing remark about the size of the NI public sector.

 

No doubt Labour have offered PR to the Liberals - which was a sticking point with talks between them and the Conservatives

 

I thought the Tories had been more than fair in saying that they would put it to referendum. Labour had 13 years to reform the electoral system and didn't make a noise until it looked as if they were going to lose.

 

Because really, we're all fox-hunting, money stealing Thatcherite toffs.

QFT. I've never been fox-hunting...

 

Ugh.

QFT again.

[mur'phon]

I thought the Tories had been more than fair in saying that they would put it to referendum. Labour had 13 years to reform the electoral system and didn't make a noise until it looked as if they were going to lose.

 

They offered to have a comitee to have a look at it, which, especially since labor did the same, the Lib Dems didn't accept.

 

As for the importance of PR, given that the Lib Dems will have to piss ff a huge section of their voters to get to be the junior party in a government that's guaranteed to be hated, I'd say that they deserve to be given at least that much.

[SW01]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8673807.stm

 

^I was going by that - referendum as the final offer. The Committee was the stance up until today, I believe.

[Pavlos]

No doubt Labour have offered PR to the Liberals - which was a sticking point with talks between them and the Conservatives, but both parties had agreed that the economy had to take precedence over all other matters. If the Liberals enter into a coalition with Labour simply because of an offer of PR, it makes Nick Clegg look like a fool after his talk of ensuring Britain had a 'strong, stable government' as the proposed coalition looks far from stable with a mish-mash of smaller parties and a no doubt bloody Labour leadership contest.

To be fair to Mr. Clegg, he didn't really say that he was going to ensure that: he said that the party with the largest number of seats had the right to seek the Confidence of the Commons and try to form a government first. Nothing in there said he would join that first government. The Liberal Democrats are their own party, they are not something to slot into place with another. Should they choose to form a coalition with Labour, so be it. Should they choose to form one with the Tories, so be it. They may even decide to sit this one out, as they did in Scotland. So be it.

 

Now, it may be said that they have a public duty (if we may dust off this rather antiquated phrase after its neglect since Mrs. 'there's no such thing as society' Thatcher) to form a stable government in light of the economic crisis, and to do so give ground on their party values. But as a corollary the Conservatives must do everything that they reasonably can to romance the Liberal Democrats. And I don't think a referendum on AV (a system which is, in many ways, less proportional that FPTP) is really the best that they can do; not even a discussion of a mixed system as in Germany, with a chunk of politicians elected proportionally and the rest via FPTP.

 

If only a few Ulster Unionists had taken seats - they were/are in a coalition with the Tories already. But the DUP have disappointed me by buying into the media frenzy over a passing remark about the size of the NI public sector.

They've only threatened to cut thousands of people's jobs in a politically unstable part of the country; how wise of them.

 

On the talk of a referendum on electoral reform. I understand the desire for one, and do think it's wholly justified, but I'm a bit perplexed as to when politicians started wanting to have them on major changes. I think we should have one on Women's Suffrage, that was a pretty significant shift in the rules.

[Salzella]

Holy **** Lord Tebbit's coming and he's got a ****ing shotgun!

 

Because really, we're all fox-hunting, money stealing Thatcherite toffs.

 

QFT. I've never been fox-hunting...

 

Perhaps you're not, but your leaders certainly are. Several sources have said (i'll dig them out if you want) that this is the most Etonian government in a long time: cliqueish and over-privileged.

[Astor]

Perhaps you're not, but your leaders certainly are. Several sources have said (i'll dig them out if you want) that this is the most Etonian government in a long time: cliqueish and over-privileged.

 

I accept what you're saying, but I don't really buy into the whole class thing.

 

As for cliques, they've got them all over the House - there are plenty of Labour politicians who went to private schools (Balls, Woodward, Hain, Darling, and a few others, even equality-mad Harman), and there are even more united by their membership of the TUC.

 

And with a reported 6 Liberal Democrat Cabinet posts, it might not be quite as Etonian as expected.

[Salzella]

It's not so much class in a traditional 'downtrodden masses' sort of sense I'm talking about here, it's more of the problem with the very-very top classes, if you like. I can very readily accept that the whole class system is rather out-dated, but there does seem to be a problem with call-me-Dave, Osborne and Boris getting to the top of the political system despite having very limited reservoirs of political talent or intellectual ability. All three would be comprehensively out-thought by Brown for example, a very unlucky man in a lot of ways although obviously not perfect...

 

Incidentally, I'm not actually a Labour supporter - Greens for me. more Socialist than Labour, Internationalist (something i'm very keen on) and obviously very environmentally aware; another thing the Conservatives struggle with. their enironment minister looked pretty hapless in the environment debates.

 

And yes, re: the final point about the cabinet - good. If Vince Cable gets the position of Chancellor that would negate a lot of the damage that slime-ball smirking clown Osbourne would do. Indeed, as long as we get PR eventually - something I hope Clegg is not ready to compromise on even at this late stage - then i see a coalition as a lot less potentially damaging to the less well-off than a majority tory govt, which would not have been good, especially if you like having public services of a reasonable standard of quality...

[Astor]

All three would be comprehensively out-thought by Brown for example, a very unlucky man in a lot of ways although obviously not perfect...

 

I'm not sure about the out-thinking bit (or maybe i'm not willing to cause an argument ), but I do agree that Brown has been incredibly unlucky.

Lord Hattersly, writing in The Times today said that he was the most promising MP he'd ever met, and knew he would be Prime Minister one day - perhaps even in 1997, but gave way to Tony in 1995 when he was the more popular of the pair. Obviously, giving up what was an almost assured Premiership pretty obviously haunted him for near on a decade, and must have been even more soul destroying when he inherited a Government that was rapidly turning into a busted flush.

 

their enironment minister looked pretty hapless in the environment debates.[/Quote]

 

We have a Shadow Environment minister?

 

And yes, re: the final point about the cabinet - good. If Vince Cable gets the position of Chancellor that would negate a lot of the damage that slime-ball smirking clown Osbourne would do. Indeed, as long as we get PR eventually - something I hope Clegg is not ready to compromise on even at this late stage - then i see a coalition as a lot less potentially damaging to the less well-off than a majority tory govt, which would not have been good, especially if you like having public services of a reasonable standard of quality...

 

I can't see the Conservatives budging on Osbourne - but it's been reported that Cable will likely be Chief Secretary, so would have some say concerning cuts, etc. Someone suggested Ken Clarke as Chancellor, but I can't see that happening.

 

I just hope they choose someone competent for Defence. I know it's not a particularly important post anymore, but anyone is better is than Bob Ainsworth (who, coincidentally, is the MP for a rather run down and shabby part of Coventry I have to travel through to work). Someone suggested Lord Ashdown for the post, which might not be too bad considering his experience in both the Armed Forces and MI6.

 

Although I think all bets off for the Cabinet at the moment until the deal is finalised.

[Totenkopf]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100511/ap_on_bi_ge/eu_britain_election

[Astor]

So, the Cabinet is slowly forming - more information to be added to this post as it comes -

 

Prime Minister - David Cameron (CON)

Deputy Prime Minister - Nick Clegg (LD)

 

Chancellor: George Osborne (CON)

Home Secretary, Minister for Women & Equality: Theresa May (CON)

Foreign Secretary: William Hague (CON)

Justice Secretary & Lord Chancellor: Ken Clarke (CON)

Defence Secretary: Liam Fox (CON)

Health Secretary: Andrew Lansley (CON)

Education Secretary: Michael Gove (CON)

Secretary for Work & Pensions: Iain Duncan Smith (CON)

Business Secretary: Vince Cable (LD)

Chief Secretary to the Treasury: David Laws (LD)

Secretary for Climate Change & Energy: Chris Huhne (LD)

Secretary for the Environment: Caroline Spelman (CON)

Secretary for Communities & Local Government: Eric Pickles (CON)

Secretary for Culture, Olympics, Media & Sport: Jeremy Hunt (CON)

Transport Secretary Phillip Hammond (CON)

International Development Secretary: Andrew Mitchell (CON)

Welsh Secretary: Cheryl Gillan (CON)

Northern Ireland Secretary: Owen Paterson (CON)

Minister Without Portfolio: Baroness Warsi (CON)

 

Also attending the Cabinet:

Minister for the Cabinet Office: Francis Maude (CON)

Minister of State: Oliver Letwin (CON)

Leader of the Commons: Sir George Young (CON)

Leader of the Lords: Lord Strathclyde (CON)

Minister for Universites and Science: David Willetts (CON)

 

Attorney General: Dominic Grieve QC. (CON)

 

 

 

 

Sir Peter Ricketts (formerly Permanent Secretary to the Foreign Office) will be heading up the National Security Council, giving him direct supervision of the war in Afghanistan.

 

*There are rumours filtering through that Sir Menzies Campbell will be a candidate for speaker on the 18th - I think he'd make a great speaker, or at least a better one than John Bercow.

 

And of course, the great news is the dropping of ID cards, the Database and a whole host of other legislation in the 'Great Repeal Bill'.

 

More to follow...

[Pavlos]

And of course, the great news is the dropping of ID cards, the Database and a whole host of other legislation in the 'Great Repeal Bill'.

Is this s Tory rebranding of the LibDem 'Freedom Bill'? Has a better name at any rate, even if it is a bit pompous. It makes it sound like we're abolishing slavery or deposing the Queen or something...

[Astor]

Is this s Tory rebranding of the LibDem 'Freedom Bill'? Has a better name at any rate, even if it is a bit pompous. It makes it sound like we're abolishing slavery or deposing the Queen or something...

 

Liberal - Conservative Agreement

 

From the Civil Liberties section -

 

The parties agree to implement a full programme of measures to reverse the substantial erosion of civil liberties under the Labour Government and roll back state intrusion.

 

This will include:

 

* A Freedom or Great Repeal Bill.

 

* The scrapping of ID card scheme, the National Identity register, the next generation of biometric passports and the Contact Point Database.

 

* Outlawing the finger-printing of children at school without parental permission.

 

* The extension of the scope of the Freedom of Information Act to provide greater transparency.

 

* Adopting the protections of the Scottish model for the DNA database.

 

* The protection of historic freedoms through the defence of trial by jury.

 

* The restoration of rights to non-violent protest.

 

* The review of libel laws to protect freedom of speech.

 

* Safeguards against the misuse of anti-terrorism legislation.

 

* Further regulation of CCTV.

 

* Ending of storage of internet and email records without good reason.

 

* A new mechanism to prevent the proliferation of unnecessary new criminal offences.

[Salzella]

I still think we'd benefit from I.D. cards - it has done the continent no harm at all, streamlined travel amongst other things and is a great alternative to passports as a form of I.D. However i can see that it is a bit 1984, and the repealing of the other liberty-opposed bills is great.

 

re: the cabinet, it's looking pretty good. I'm glad the Lib Dems got the environment as like i said the Tories are very weak on that as they're continually balancing between looking wholesome to the public and protecting their big business interests and placating the more eccentric, Climate change denying end of their spectrum. Also, Vince in business is good, he's libertarian but not overly so, and is also a good economist which is obviously quite crucial...

 

Not sure at all about Liam Fox in defense though...

[Astor]

re: the cabinet, it's looking pretty good. I'm glad the Lib Dems got the environment as like i said the Tories are very weak on that as they're continually balancing between looking wholesome to the public and protecting their big business interests and placating the more eccentric, Climate change denying end of their spectrum. Also, Vince in business is good, he's libertarian but not overly so, and is also a good economist which is obviously quite crucial...[/Quote]

 

Him and David Laws (who has a long history with The City, and lots of qualifications) are excellent appointments, even if Laws didn't get Education like he wanted.

 

Not sure at all about Liam Fox in defense though...

 

Neither am I, to be honest. He looked good in Opposition, but anyone would look good opposite Ainsworth.

 

I'm really quite optimistic about this. There are plenty of naysayers (to listen to Labour, you'd have thought the sky had fallen in), but I think we need to give it a few months to see how well this will work.