Ground Zero Mosque

[mimartin]

Trump to possibly buy lots:

His hair piece is more of an offense to mankind than the Mosque. I will set up a burning of Lincoln Logs until he agrees not to buy the land.

 

Really hope most of this is true, but I hope the idiot from Florida 15 minutes are up and he does not get credit for the decision to move the Mosque further away from Ground Zero.

[jrrtoken]

Well, this is fun. So to appease an extremist from doing something disgraceful and ridiculous, the blueprints for a faith-based community center gets pigeonholed? I'm all for playing peacemaker, but this is just pushing any chance of a greater and more autonomous Muslim community down, really.

 

Christian far-right: +1; Moderate Muslims: 0

 

There's also probably a good Hitler-Chamberlain analogy out there that I could bring up, but whatever...

 

 

EDIT: Forget everything I said; the story that the Islamic center is being relocated is an implicated lie, by none other than Dr. Jones. Imam Rauf hasn't even spoken to the guy, let alone brokered a compromise. Great guy, aye?

[Liverandbacon]

If true, this will no doubt be seen as a victory by gun-toting, supposedly Christian extremists.

 

Gun ownership has nothing to do with this. I don't know why you felt the need to bring it up.

 

-----------------------

 

I hope no one gives Terry Jones any of the dubious credit for this. It would anger me to no end if a religious extremist got praised for semi-blackmailing (not in the legal sense, but in a moral sense) non-extremists because of something extremists did.

 

Of course, that's not even why he did it. He says "Islam is the religion of evil", I hear "hey guys, look at me! look at me! me me me me! Am I famous yet?".

[Astor]

Gun ownership has nothing to do with this. I don't know why you felt the need to bring it up.

 

I of course realise that this issue has little or nothing to do with firearm ownership - I apologise if that seemed to be my intent.

 

I only mentioned it because most of the footage and reports that I have seen have mentioned (or made an issue of) the fact that the Pastor and his 'flock' are visibly armed, and clearly not afraid of the potential for armed disagreement. Their armed, associate Pastor even escorted the visiting Imam in to meet with Jones - which clearly seems to be an unecessary act of intimidation on their part.

 

Again, apologies if it seemed like I was trying to make this about something it wasn't.

[mimartin]

Their armed, associate Pastor even escorted the visiting Imam in to meet with Jones - which clearly seems to be an unecessary act of intimidation on their part.

 

Clearly Astor knows nothing of the American South. That isn’t intimidation that is Southern Hospitality. What if the Imam would have been attacked by a gator or a panther on the way to meet Jones? I bet the world media would be singing a different tune then. Thankful it did not happen and even had a pack of vicious gators attacked, Jones and company were prepared. Intimidation? It is called being a gracious and conscientious host.

[Samuel Dravis]

To be honest I doubt they even thought about the implications of having weapons. It really isn't that big of a deal here. If someone I knew was packing, I'd ask why-- but if they said just because they could, I wouldn't bat an eye, and death threats are a better reason than that. Not sure if I agree with mim that they were interested in protecting the imam, but I really don't think they were interested in intimidating him. It's likely they have no idea what to do with the publicity they've been getting.

[The Doctor]

[Trench]

<insert pic here>

 

You just won the game. This argument is over.

 

 

As a gun-toting right-wing Holly-Roller backwoods-redneck hick Christian, I'm not really opposed to this mosque in New York.

I practice my religious freedom here. I have no problem with them doing it.

 

With all the hubbub about the extremist groups declaring it a victory on their part, who cares? If this mosque plan is canceled they'd just use it in their anti-America "The Great Satan hates us all!" propaganda. Pick the lesser of two evils and let'em build it. Or even better, drop the publicity stop feeding the extremist trolls. :¬:

 

Plus, preventing this mosque from being built would just open a doorway for the Federal and State Gov. to restrict freedoms for more religions. And that would be hell for just about everybody.

 

God bless 'Mericuh!

[jrrtoken]

The Tea Party: Keepin' it Classy

 

(This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.)

[Jae Onasi]

 

Christian far-right: +1; Moderate Muslims: 0

 

I've heard this imam is not a moderate at all, but rather radical. I'm unclear on the degree of 'radical', however. I also heard the plans are still on to build (which you noted in your edit also).

[jrrtoken]

I've heard this imam is not a moderate at all, but rather radical.

That's rather subjective; frankly, I think he hasn't been given a real opportunity to voice his opinion. Everyone seems to have written him off as a "radical" over two, contextually-constrained statements, which express very little of his true demeanor. It's like labeling the Pope as a "homophobe" because he doesn't approve of homosexuality.

I'm unclear on the degree of 'radical', however.

Does Jerry Falwell count as a "radical"?

[mimartin]

I've heard this imam is not a moderate at all, but rather radical.

I've heard that too, but I have yet to see any evidence of such. Same type of hearsay as saying Obama is not an American.

Does Jerry Falwell count as a "radical"?

Let me think for a moment

"I agree totally with you that the Lord has protected us so wonderfully these 225 years. And since 1812, this is the first time that we've been attacked on our soil and by far the worst results. And I fear, as Donald Rumsfeld, the Secretary of Defense, said yesterday, that this is only the beginning. And with biological warfare available to these monsters -- the Husseins, the Bin Ladens, the Arafats -- what we saw on Tuesday, as terrible as it is, could be miniscule if, in fact -- if, in fact -- God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.....And I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the Pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America, I point the finger in their face and say: you helped this happen."[/Quote]

"Jesus set the example for love, as did Moses, and I think Muhammad set an opposite example."[/Quote]

"Who will the Antichrist be? I don't know. Nobody else knows. Is he alive and here today? Probably. Because when he appears during the Tribulation period he will be a full-grown counterfeit of Christ. Of course, he'll be Jewish. Of course, he'll pretend to be Christ. And if in fact the Lord is coming soon, and he'll [the Antichrist] be an adult at the presentation of himself, he must be alive somewhere today."[/Quote]

"I do not believe that God answers the prayer of any unredeemed Gentile or Jew"[/Quote]

"I hope to live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!"[/Quote]

Does Jerry Falwell count as a "radical"?

Yes

[jawathehutt]

60 minutes did a piece on this recently, I dont know if this has been mentioned yet, but the mosque part of the community center is built and has been in use for a while. Like before this debate began. Its not going away. Basically, people are now arguing against having a community center, built to be much like the Jewish community center that the developer used to be a member of while growing up. And community centers for those who dont know, aren't weapons training and bomb making factories. They're like swimming pools and stuff. For the whole community around them. Not just Muslims. Anyone can join.

[Trench]

...he'll be Jewish.

*Roman.

 

[Samnmax221]

I don't know if this will succeed in building bridges but it sure smoked out all the racists.

[GODKING]

It stupid the government even considered it and the Muslims are stupid too for considering it. All the Muslims are doing is disgracing the people that died there and American. If the government did let them build there their would be a huge protest and it may lead to violence. All the government has to do is seize that land as eniemnt domain and declare it a national landmark. Problem solved

[Sabretooth]

How about building a totally epic mosque there, and then declaring it a national landmark? Everyone walks away happy.

[GODKING]

I don't think that is a good solution because it was the Muslims that destroyed it in the first place (not saying all Muslims just saying they were Muslims.) so if we declare a Mosque a national landmark there would be a national uprising. The Muslim is just showing America disrespect. The reason behind this their are plenty of places where they could build a Mosque, but they tried to build it there where thousands of Americans died because of muslim suicide bombers.

[Sabretooth]

You mean near where thousands of Americans died.

[The Doctor]

You mean near where thousands of Americans died.

Where, if I'm not mistaken, there happens to already be a mosque anyway. If I understand the situation correctly, all they want to do is make a larger community centre that they would then open to everyone, instead of just having a mosque.

 

Would anyone have a problem if the YMCA wanted to build a centre in the same place? What about if a Jew wanted to open up a movie theatre that happened to also contain a small synagogue? What about a Buddhist operated tennis club with a little meditation room in the back? And people are really going to bitch because some Muslims want to put in a pool and some multi-purpose meeting rooms?

[Sabretooth]

Where, if I'm not mistaken, there happens to already be a mosque anyway. If I understand the situation correctly, all they want to do is make a larger community centre that they would then open to everyone, instead of just having a mosque.

 

Actually, Wiki shows that the place is not even a mosque - just a community center with a prayer room. And it looks awesome, too.

[The Doctor]

Actually, Wiki shows that the place is not even a mosque - just a community center with a prayer room. And it looks awesome, too.

Wow, that makes this whole thing even more ridiculous. A centre expressly intended to promote interfaith peace is being given **** because it happened to be proposed by a Muslim.

 

It looks like you just can't ****ing win in the States if you're Muslim, can you?

[GODKING]

Wow, that makes this whole thing even more ridiculous. A centre expressly intended to promote interfaith peace is being given **** because it happened to be proposed by a Muslim.

 

It looks like you just can't ****ing win in the States if you're Muslim, can you?

 

I mean no offense about what im about to say, but your a canadian so its different for you. If Muslims destroyed a National Landmark in Canada and then wanted to expanded their Church's community center (the community that people from their relegion destroyed.) you would be a unset about it too.

[The Doctor]

I mean no offense about what im about to say, but your a canadian so its different for you. If Muslims destroyed a National Landmark in Canada and then wanted to expanded their Church's community center (the community that people from their relegion destroyed.) you would be a unset about it too.

No, I bloody well wouldn't. Because I, like many of your own fellow Americans, am actually aware of the difference between a proper Muslim and a fundamentalist/extremist. It wasn't Islam that destroyed the World Trade Centre. It wasn't Islam that killed ~3000 people - not all of whom, I feel compelled to point out, where Americans. It wasn't Islam that destroyed the community, the buildings, the sidewalks, or anything at all. It was extremists. Painting the entire faith with the same brush as Al Qaeda is an insult, kid, no two ways about it.

 

These people don't want to "expand their Church's community center". And people from their religion did not destroy the community. A group of people used their religion as an excuse to lash out against people they hated. And now these true Muslims want to build an inter-faith building of peace and respectful tolerance that would be open to everyone, regardless of their religious affiliation. If that isn't a slap in the face of Islamic extremism, I don't bloody well know what is.

 

I'd also like to just say that, whether you meant offence or not, I am in fact offended by the implication that I can't mourn the loss of American lives because I'm Canadian. The events of September 11th shook the whole world, not just your little corner of it.

[mimartin]

Last I checked, I am an American and I have no problem with a Community Center being built a couple blocks from Ground Zero.