Revan: The Novel Spoilers (Oh god...)

[Ser'eck]

Videos on youtube, enjoy!

 

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[Sir Vougalot]

Woot! Thanks, man.

 

That second video is kind of grim, though. I looks like Revan succumbs to the darkness once again, which kind of undermines his redemption in the game, especially in light of what the comics have revealed about his past. Revan was young and idealistic back then, so to me it seems that he'd be on guard against that this time around.

[Ser'eck]

Keep in mind that the second video is only a portion of Revan's story.

 

Comparing what's going on in that video to what reviews I have read about the novel (yeah I still haven't read the darn thing yet) I would have to say that it seems like Revan is becoming lost in his mind. He appears to no longer determine right from wrong, he is corrupted from his own eagerness to destroy the dark side by what ever means.

 

@2nd Video: This was through the perspective of the Imperial characters. This whole scene probably would never happen when playing as Republic.

 

I also think it is odd that it seemed like the Imperial characters were trying to save Revan.

[Thanatos9t]

Does anyone find it sloppy how when he puts on the mask his hood is up but then it is down when the camera changes and his Revan mask appears to have turned into a helmet event though it is a face mask?

[DarthParametric]

Ah, he is out and about in TOR? That would explain why there was no specific Revan body mesh - he just uses one of the standard Inquisitor/Consular player/NPC dresses. Although it looks like it uses a texture set that attempts to replicate his KOTOR robes. I had expected him to be physically plugged into some sort of machine.

 

I'll dig around and see if I can find the appropriate model and textures.

[Sir Vougalot]

Does anyone find it sloppy how when he puts on the mask his hood is up but then it is down when the camera changes and his Revan mask appears to have turned into a helmet event though it is a face mask?

 

It's not a face mask; it's a helmet. That's been established in the comics. But yes, I did find the way it looked as he put it on rather stupid.

[DarthParametric]

Nope, it's a mask, just like it was in KOTOR and just like it is in the novel:

 

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[Sir Vougalot]

That in-game item is not canonical, especially since it's an un-retrievable item (except with mods) that never appears in a cutscene. What is canonical is what we see in the comics and upcoming game.

 

And what are you talking about "in the novel"? The novel clearly stated that it was a helmet! It said that Meetra handed Bastila a helmet, even though every time after that it was referred to by its more popular moniker as "Revan's Mask."

[Thanatos9t]

This cutscene from ToR shows it as a mask:

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I suppose the face mask could be detachable from the helmet.

[DarthParametric]

What is canonical is what we see in the comics and upcoming game.

Well what I posted is ripped straight from TOR, so I guess that officially makes it canon. I can't see why its appearance in KOTOR would be any less canon, especially as it introduced the character.

 

Comics barely sit above fan-faction on the canonical scale, so I wouldn't consider anything depicted in a comic as holding any worth as far as canon arguments go.

 

And what are you talking about "in the novel"? The novel clearly stated that it was a helmet!

There are two lines that refer to it being a helmet, but I believe this is simply an improper use of the term on Karpyshyn's part. He very clearly refers to it as a mask throughout the rest of the book, and not just as a name that people referred to it as, but as an actual description of what it is. You could always send him an email or a Tweet asking him to clear up the matter.

[Sir Vougalot]

Yeah, true.

 

Based on what we've seen in the comics, in KOTOR, and in TOR, I'm thinking it may actually be a two-part helmet that clamps together, with a face mask and a part that goes in the back of the head.

[Darth Avlectus]

*ignores second video and all comments afterwards*

 

Recalling from Darth Bane: Path of Destruction,

 

Bane admired Revan, even if Revan was ultimately redeemed to the light side.

Of course this was written in 2006, and TOR was only in its conceptual stage, if that, so presumably it was referring to the light side ending of KOTOR. I theorized whatever the case was if they were bringing Revan back in some form, it would have to end up being light sided to not contradict canon.

 

So I theorize further that if there are dark alternates that could be considered also canon:

1) Revan will be killed by you but remain light side.

2) Revan is consumed by the dark side and joins you. In killing the emperor he succeeds if you allow it.

3) OR any variation of the above PROVIDED THAT Revan is NOT known to the galaxy at large to still live.

[Thanatos9t]

Videos on youtube, enjoy!

 

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The Second video has been removed here is an identical video

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[Darth Dan 012]

Videos on youtube, enjoy!

 

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What the hell...

 

They just took everything that Revan was in the KotOR games and erased it. **** Bioware, **** EA, and **** SW:TOR.

[Sir Vougalot]

Easy there, cowboy; it's just a game. Revan in KOTOR really wasn't much of anything other than what you made him to be. People need to be open-minded and stop getting so upset when the writers reveal something contrary to their little pre-conceived fanboy expectations.

[jedi_consular16]

Well I for one never liked the idea of taking the KOTOR genre away from RPG and moving into an MMO, I think that just ruins stories. I refuse to have anything to do with ToR simply for that fact. However, that is a topic that has already been discussed in great detail on threads in forums that number as high as Yoda's midi-chlorian count.

 

But even given that I certainly have a bias against ToR, (and agreeing with Darth Dan 012's eloquent response) I still think that to include Revan in such a way and finish his saga by saying that he was just a pawn of the True Sith Emperor during the Jedi Civil War and was held in stasis for 300 years after only to be a side-bar in an MMO in his final moments really tarnishes his story. I'm not saying that Revan needed to become God-incarnate or that he needed to kill Chuck Norris in KOTOR III for me to be satisfied, but, to paraphrase what I've seen in a few reviews of the new Revan novel, "it feels like this answer to the question of what happened to Revan was not a well thought out and fair ending but rather a means to finally shutup the people who have been whining for a KOTOR III for years." It just feels like they wanted something quick to fill in the gap so they could have their moneymaker and not be accused by the fan-base of ignoring their pleas. A proverbial "have their cake and eat it too" if you will.

 

Personally I would have much preferred that they had ignored Revan and the Exile altogether for ToR and left their fate's to obscurity rather than end them the way that they did. I mean...come on, the Exile finds Revan in the Unknown Regions only to be stabbed in the back by a Sith under-Lord? After defeating the Sith Triumvirate in the Dark Wars you finish her arc by stabbing her in the back and becoming a Force-IV bag for Revan?

[DeathScepter]

well the only reason that Revan is even involved with TOR that he is famous. and thus Bioware is milking for all he is worth. As for Jedi Exile, they need to tie her in with Revan for TOR.

[mimartin]

well the only reason that Revan is even involved with TOR that he is famous. and thus Bioware is milking for all he is worth. As for Jedi Exile, they need to tie her in with Revan for TOR.

 

BioWare created Revan, I see it more as paying homage to their own creation. I don't really see how they are milking anything out of Revan with The Old Republic. Someone is really going to pay 60 dollars and then another 15 dollars a month, not to mention the amount of time invested in playing the game just for a glimpse at the “great and powerful” Revan.

 

If they really wanted to “milk” Revan they would have set the MMO timeline closer to Revan’s time. I finished the class storyline for the smuggler in TOR yesterday. Revan and his/her companions were mentioned a few times in it, there were some references to certain quest in KotOR and even vague references to TSL. However, it was nothing overwhelming or anything that promoted KotOR over TOR and certainly nothing that would sale TOR by exploiting its KotOR tie-ins. Revan’s story ended with KotOR and the Exile’s story ended with TSL, TOR is other characters' stories.

[DeathScepter]

and that is why they shouldn't be in TOR at all. Mimartin.

[Sir Vougalot]

I don't mean to change the subject here, but I got a reply from Mr. Karpyshyn regarding a matter I brought up earlier in the thread:

 

 

 

 

Dear Mr. Karpyshyn,

 

I finished you novel, Star Wars: Revan recently, and I fell in love with it. I loved how you brought the familiar characters to life in new, fresh ways, yet kept them true to their KOTOR counterparts.

 

I did have one question, however: Why is it that neither of Revan's real names are revealed? (I say "neither" because I find it reasonable to assume that Revan had a birth name--which he used up until adopting the moniker of "the Revanchist," followed by "Revan," and then "Darth Revan"--and that the Jedi Council programed an entirely new name and identity into him following his capture that was different from his birth name.) Why is it that Revan has adopted "Revan" as his identity when the dialogue choices from the light side path in the game make it clear that he rejects that name ("But I'm not Revan; I'm X!)? I find it odd that, after rejecting such a name, being closely tied with the Dark Lord of the Sith, that Revan would embrace it immediately after. Did he have a change of heart?

 

Further, when all of Revan's memories came flooding back to him once he received his mask from Meetra, why did not his birth name register? Or at least why was there no mention of it?

 

I just find it a bit odd that Revan was not given a canonical name. While I can understand that the reason behind it might be that it wouldn't sit well with readers who have played the game and had their own perceptions of Revan in mind (even though the new MMO gives him a canonical face), it seems a bit inconstant that the Exile--who shares the same level of customization--was given a name.

 

Please don't understand this as nitpicking, or as a challenge to you. I love your stories and I loved the book; I'm simply curious is all.

 

Besides this, I want you to know that I adored your Bane trilogy as well. I also started reading one of your Mass Effect novels (another favorite franchise of mine), but misplaced it; but what I read of it was excellent.

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Sincerely,

John

 

 

 

 

Hey, John. (Call me Drew, by the way.)

 

Thanks for the e-mail; it's always good to hear from someone who enjoys my

work. Glad you liked the Revan novel.

 

As for his name, it's a complicated issue but I'll do my best to explain

it. From a character level, I see Revan as he exists in the post-KOTOR

universe as being a man who has reconciled all his various pasts into a

new sense of self-identity - it makes sense to me that he would go by

Revan, and I wanted to convey that to the readers. Mentioning his previous

names would undermine that slightly.

 

But there is also a marketing/fan awareness on my part. Mentioning the

name Revan used after he was brain wiped by the Jedi wouldn't serve much

purpose, and all it would do is draw attention to the fact that the name I

used was different than the name players used in KOTOR.

 

His original name could be given, but honestly I knew that no matter what

name I gave him, there would be fans who were disappointed. I didn't feel

like it gave any tangible benefits to the story or character, and so I

decided the cost wasn't worth it.

 

To be honest, I would have done the same with Meetra/the Exile if she had

been given an actual name in KOTOR2. But I tried writing the book only

referring to her as "the Exile" and it felt very jarring and weird. Also,

I don't think she had the same fundamental identity crisis that Revan did

- her experience wasn't about losing memories and having them restored. So

I copped out and gave her a name... and then got dozens of e-mails from

angry fans telling me the name sucked. Oh well.

 

As for Revan's memories, when they came flooding back he probably did

remember his old name, but it wasn't relevant to the story or what he was

dealing with at the time, so it wasn't something he focused on.

 

Hopefully this all makes sense.

 

Drew

[mimartin]

and that is why they shouldn't be in TOR at all. Mimartin.

If they were not then the vocal minority would be "why didn't BioWare put Revan in the game". There is not way to make everyone happy and why should BioWare even care what people that did not buy TOR think. Their main concern right now should be the 1.7 active subscribers of TOR.

[90SK]

After defeating the Sith Triumvirate in the Dark Wars you finish her arc by stabbing her in the back and becoming a Force-IV bag for Revan?

 

I agree it is heinous. More was deserved, KotOR II is still one of my favorite games for its unique portrayal of the Star Wars motif and code of ethics. The fact that theres such a buzz about restoring content to the game is great too in like a year or two this game will be bank for new players looking for a prize classic.

[DeathScepter]

This is my opinion only. That TOR needs to focus on the current player's character and their character's companions. than Returning Heroes of old. Replacement Flashpoints and gears is alright.

 

Also right now, I am personally disgusting in the amount of Revan/Jedi Exile threads over at Bioware TOR threads. Thus cements my opinion that Revan or the Jedi Exile as characters shouldn't be in TOR at all.

 

Then again I am easily annoy with people. Keep in mind that, I do have a few good ideas for Kotor 1 special edition, Kotor 3 and Kotor 4. Another thing, what I think that are good ideas, it doesn't mean that they are good ideas.

[VeniVidiVicous]

Read the book, it was ok.

 

Kotor 3 and Kotor 4.

 

Will probably never happen now due to the book. Seems like they just needed to close off that part of the series so fans would have their own adventure in TOR.

 

(plus I saw a video months ago where one of the Bioware guys said there was

no need for a single player rpg because TOR would effectively be kotor 3-10)

 

I'd rather have had 7 additional kotor single player games myself.

[jedi_consular16]

I'd rather have had 7 additional kotor single player games myself.

 

This. So would I. One of the most common phrases I see when discussion of KOTOR comes up is usually something to the effect of "i have the urge to play KOTOR again' or "i just started my X-teenth playthrough of KOTOR and.."

 

Seems such a shame (to me, although i know that others here disagree) to have dumped the series into a MMORPG and spin off novel, especially cause the SRPGs are still so popular. However, neither LucasArts nor Bioware seem to be really hurting from the decision.