Lynk Former Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 @ Alexrd: I think you meant to type in Milt's name on the last quote... However, for the ones that are my quotes... Lucas wasn't going to make the sequel trilogy anyway, as I said, he lost interest. The fact that these movies are being made in the first place is amazing because while GL did have the story outlines for a sequel trilogy, it was never going to happen until Disney bought the rights to the franchise. And let's be clear about this, he wrote up outlines for a story, not a fully fledged story itself. It was more of a "if it happens, this is some of the things it'd have" kind of deal. Until we actually know more about what were in these outlines and why they couldn't be used, I'm giving the people who are creating the sequel trilogy the benefit of the doubt on this. Though, in your reply to Milt about pandering... how do you know? Have you seen the movie yet? How did you see the movie before everyone else? Did you read the script? Is that the script over there? You could be right, it could be just pandering to the fans and be a lacklustre movie with no substance. As I said, it's 50/50 chance right now and it could go either way... but how do YOU know right now at this very moment what this movie and trilogy is going to be like? I certainly didn't know that I wouldn't like the PT before I went and saw each movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vougalot Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I did not see the trailer, nor do I have any plans to do so. I have zero interest in this new Star Wars universe that Disney is building atop the ruins of the old. To me, it is not canon. As far as I'm concerned, Episode VII has been out for twenty years now, and it's called Heir to the Empire. Disney can go screw itself. Thank you and good night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Something interesting some people have noticed about the trailer recently... In the shot of the Knights of Ren, Kylo Ren is holding something in his left hadn... another lightsaber? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 One thing that tugged at my heart strings was when Han said "it's true.. All of it" it worked for me on so many levels, one being the fact I've stuck with Star Wars for 35 years through the highs and lows. Magic! Oh and Han and Leia's theme... Wow goosebumps lump in throat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 One thing that tugged at my heart strings was when Han said "it's true.. All of it" it worked for me on so many levels, one being the fact I've stuck with Star Wars for 35 years through the highs and lows. Magic! Oh and Han and Leia's theme... Wow goosebumps lump in throat It also presents a really nice character arc for him from A New Hope to The Force Awakens, because he once saw all the stuff to do with the Force as being superstitious nonsense. Now, after all these years, he's seen it for himself and he knows what it can do. Show spoiler (hidden content - requires Javascript to show) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vougalot Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Technically, they were never canon, they were "expanded universe" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorge Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Plot Twist: Kylo Ren is actually Jon Snow. Show spoiler (hidden content - requires Javascript to show) Show spoiler (hidden content - requires Javascript to show) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vougalot Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Technically, they were never canon, they were "expanded universe" Revisionist history, my friend. The Expanded Universe was always canon. Enough statements from Lucas Film over the years prove this to be true. They had a structure set up with the movies being the highest level of canon, and different EU media falling into place elsewhere. It was fully endorsed and overseen by Lucas Film, and at times even George Lucas himself would dictate how certain stories were to be written, what was and wasn't permitted, etc. Don't buy into that revisionist history that the EU was never canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkonium Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Revisionist history, my friend. The Expanded Universe was always canon. Enough statements from Lucas Film over the years prove this to be true. They had a structure set up with the movies being the highest level of canon, and different EU media falling into place elsewhere. It was fully endorsed and overseen by Lucas Film, and at times even George Lucas himself would dictate how certain stories were to be written, what was and wasn't permitted, etc. Don't buy into that revisionist history that the EU was never canon. Regardless, the movies always came first. This is why George Lucas didn't allow any EU works set before the OT until after the prequels were released. The problem this time is that there was no way around a sequel film either contradicting or being dependent on the existing EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 The prequel trilogy did override a lot of EU material including certain aspects of the Thrawn trilogy that referred to pre-OT events. It's interesting going back to those books and finding all the changes the PT has made that contradicts those books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkonium Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 The prequel trilogy did override a lot of EU material including certain aspects of the Thrawn trilogy that referred to pre-OT events. It's interesting going back to those books and finding all the changes the PT has made that contradicts those books. In retrospect, I'm not sure how those references got George Lucas' approval. I know a later book involved Luke looking for his mother, but they avoided potentially contradicting the prequels by having his lead turn out to be a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vougalot Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Regardless, the movies always came first. This is why George Lucas didn't allow any EU works set before the OT until after the prequels were released. The problem this time is that there was no way around a sequel film either contradicting or being dependent on the existing EU. Which means the EU mattered to George Lucas and Lucas Film on some level. If it didn't, they would have let the authors write whatever they wanted and then just bulldoze through it all. To be fair, they did exactly that with the Clone Wars toward the end, but by then Lucas seemed to have changed his opinion about the EU. He does that a lot and claims his current opinion is how he's always felt about a certain subject, when history proves otherwise. The Star Trek EU, on the other hand, is an example of the company not caring about it whatsoever. There's no order to it, so we have books and comics completely contradicted by other books and comics, and then the films and TV shows disproved everything. The prequel trilogy did override a lot of EU material including certain aspects of the Thrawn trilogy that referred to pre-OT events. It's interesting going back to those books and finding all the changes the PT has made that contradicts those books. A lot of people are saying that now, but the changes the prequels made to the canon were really not that major at all and were easily explained away with new EU material (some of which George Lucas himself provided info for). The changes to the Clone Wars era, on the other hand, are quite a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkonium Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Which means the EU mattered to George Lucas and Lucas Film on some level. If it didn't, they would have let the authors write whatever they wanted and then just bulldoze through it all. To be fair, they did exactly that with the Clone Wars toward the end, but by then Lucas seemed to have changed his opinion about the EU. He does that a lot and claims his current opinion is how he's always felt about a certain subject, when history proves otherwise. The Star Trek EU, on the other hand, is an example of the company not caring about it whatsoever. There's no order to it, so we have books and comics completely contradicted by other books and comics, and then the films and TV shows disproved everything. A lot of people are saying that now, but the changes the prequels made to the canon were really not that major at all and were easily explained away with new EU material (some of which George Lucas himself provided info for). The changes to the Clone Wars era, on the other hand, are quite a mess. Then how would you have handled continuity going into Episode VII? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vougalot Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Well, for one thing, I wouldn't have made Episodes VII, VIII, and IX. I think that era is best left to the EU, so therefore I would have made spinoff movies that take place in unexplored eras (for example, I had an idea for a film that explores the Jedi Order's origins, simply titled Star Wars). But if I were to produce Episodes VII, VIII, and IX, there are plenty of options. First, where the EU stands right now, the "Big Three" characters happen to be exactly the same ages as their actor counterparts. This strikes me as a golden opportunity. And before you say that such a story can't exist without being 100% dependent on the EU because of all that has happened at this point, let me tell you that that is not true. As long as the Big Three are supporting characters and not the main characters, with the main characters being fresh faces, it is 100% possible for a casual fan to jump right into a fully EU-compliant Episode VII without ever having read any of the EU. The other option is to do what Star Trek did: have an in-universe timeline split some time after Return of the Jedi, and have two diverging universes from there, both fully canon. There would be a point where all of the materials up to that point would be shared across both universes, after which the original EU goes one way, and the new films with their own EU go another. I know that time travel is more of a Star Trek hard sci-fi thing that it is Star Wars, but you could get away with it if you took a mystical approach rather than a technological one, with the idea that the Force binds all space and time, which would include alternate realities. Such a thing could even provide an opportunity for unity between the two timelines, with a certain catalyst in the original EU that cases the past to change, and bridging the two universes, possibly with a character. There are plenty of possibilities that would keep almost everyone happy. Disney took none of them. Not only is the post-Jedi timeline affected now, but they've destroyed the entire EU, rewriting eras that need not be rewritten and have little to do with the new film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carwil Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Well, for one thing, I wouldn't have made Episodes VII, VIII, and IX. I think that era is best left to the EU, so therefore I would have made spinoff movies that take place in unexplored eras (for example, I had an idea for a film that explores the Jedi Order's origins, simply titled Star Wars). But if I were to produce Episodes VII, VIII, and IX, there are plenty of options. First, where the EU stands right now, the "Big Three" characters happen to be exactly the same ages as their actor counterparts. This strikes me as a golden opportunity. And before you say that such a story can't exist without being 100% dependent on the EU because of all that has happened at this point, let me tell you that that is not true. As long as the Big Three are supporting characters and not the main characters, with the main characters being fresh faces, it is 100% possible for a casual fan to jump right into a fully EU-compliant Episode VII without ever having read any of the EU. The other option is to do what Star Trek did: have an in-universe timeline split some time after Return of the Jedi, and have two diverging universes from there, both fully canon. There would be a point where all of the materials up to that point would be shared across both universes, after which the original EU goes one way, and the new films with their own EU go another. I know that time travel is more of a Star Trek hard sci-fi thing that it is Star Wars, but you could get away with it if you took a mystical approach rather than a technological one, with the idea that the Force binds all space and time, which would include alternate realities. Such a thing could even provide an opportunity for unity between the two timelines, with a certain catalyst in the original EU that cases the past to change, and bridging the two universes, possibly with a character. There are plenty of possibilities that would keep almost everyone happy. Disney took none of them. Not only is the post-Jedi timeline affected now, but they've destroyed the entire EU, rewriting eras that need not be rewritten and have little to do with the new film. That's an excellent point. There is even lore established in the EU to support the existence of time travel and trans-dimensional travel in the Star Wars universe, with a several different explanations for both. The Force is yet another unexplored explanation that could have been utilized. I've said it before, but the EU was inconsequential to the movies. Even on the rare occasion when it did impact the continuity of the films, its ramifications were negligible at most. Disney scrapping the entire EU sort of reminds me of someone throwing out the key codes to a new PC game because they're too ignorant to understand what they're used for. Granted, in this case, Star Wars won't be rendered useless and inoperable as would the game in the analogy, but the principle is the same. But referring to the above as well as Nyliram's comments, Disney still had a slew of avenues available to them that would have allowed Episode VII to remain EU-compliant while not cutting the main characters out of the picture. The trailers that have been aired thus far imply to me that the two new protags are going to be exceeding Luke, Han, and Leia in terms of screen time, anyways. All in all, this is what happens when you turn over one of the most successful science fiction film franchises in history to the goons responsible for flanderizing Mickey Mouse into a Saturday morning educational cartoon for children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pho3nix Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Another misconception. It's well documented that people in the production did make suggestions. The whole 'yes man' argument is a pure lie. All one needs to do is watch BTS material to confirm that George accepts and declines suggestion that were offered to him, just like in the OT. He even says something along the lines of "if it doesn't work out, I'll take the blame". (This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 *shrugs* the Legends EU still exists and hasn't been wiped from our brains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkonium Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 *shrugs* the Legends EU still exists and hasn't been wiped from our brains. Not only that, but numerous elements from the old EU have been recanonized in the new one (ie, the New Republic, Interdictors, the Inquisitors, several characters' full names, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Next Gen 2015: New 'Star Wars' Stars on Anxiety, Rejection and Sudden Stardom Man, I really love these two. You couldn't cast two more likable people for Rey and Finn than Daisy Ridley and John Boyega. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorge Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 (This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.) Epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorge Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 (This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.) That's the second new "trailer" this week. Can't wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milestails Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 Nice find! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Avlectus Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 @Darth Avlectus : I don't see any real issue. The old EU hasn't gone away, it hasn't been erased from our memories, the stories still exist. That may be true. However this is a pivotal point where the frame of the public view may more than likely be moved away treating it as such: the notion EU was never canon--which Zerimar already addressed quite nicely, so I won't beat a dead horse. Disney wanted to do something with the franchise they now own, and wiping the sleight clean is a good way of going about that. This movie would not have been possible otherwise because the history within the EU is too filled in for anything to be done on this large a scale and bringing back the OT cast along for the ride. No, I get all that. It's business. I'm just on a completely different page from the casuals. I would call them obnoxious but I was pleb at one point and someone gave me a break... once. @ Milt: That's all well and good for you and me. But what about the folks who want more Jar Jar Binks? ============= (This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.) *facepalm* Lynk you always were good for some lulz. I feel your pain, Avlectus. I don't think it was even necessary, let alone a smart business decision, for Disney to throw the EU out the window. To each their own, really. Business could go either way. However, what they have done to EU isn't why I hate them. Recently I've come to know just what a big fat globalist Walt Disney was (same ilk as fictional Devin Weston for example). In Disney's origins lurks something hideous. So it's for my conscience that I no longer have anything to do with Disney. For all the praise I have given the company in the past, I take it back now. But, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, none of which I'm here to detract from, so as Lynk says, we'll just wait it out for the next two months and see what becomes of it. Suit yourself. Like it or not, Star Wars Expanded Universe is more or less underground at this point. Slight correction. Come reckoning day when TFA is released, it's going to be dragged kicking and screaming out into the light, and us fans are coming with it. So, if the new movie tanks, we'll be stigmatized. If it's an overnight success, we'll be patronized. Avlectus, the odds of successfully navigating the release of Episode VII are approximately 3,720 to 1! Hey, if I'm out of the mainstream now, I'll have safely distanced myself if it tanks. If it's the patronizing plebs in wake of success... Then, I say to each one, as Franklin said to Hao when Hao told him there was a silver medal with his name on it after a street race... Revisionist history, my friend. The Expanded Universe was always canon. Enough statements from Lucas Film over the years prove this to be true. They had a structure set up with the movies being the highest level of canon, and different EU media falling into place elsewhere. It was fully endorsed and overseen by Lucas Film, and at times even George Lucas himself would dictate how certain stories were to be written, what was and wasn't permitted, etc. Don't buy into that revisionist history that the EU was never canon. This. It's interesting how much like the differing versions of the Bible and the Old Testament the differing canons of Star Wars are becoming regarding fans, much as one person on Youtube predicted (don't remember exactly who). Which means the EU mattered to George Lucas and Lucas Film on some level. If it didn't, they would have let the authors write whatever they wanted and then just bulldoze through it all. To be fair, they did exactly that with the Clone Wars toward the end, but by then Lucas seemed to have changed his opinion about the EU. He does that a lot and claims his current opinion is how he's always felt about a certain subject, when history proves otherwise. Well, the new Rebels stuff is stepping on TCW with the inquisitors, since even TCW had numerous references to the rule of two sith. Lucas himself even made up Darth Bane and the rule of two background. So the inconsistency will be there, and one needn't look very hard for it. As for Heir to the Empire and other EU made prior to Ep1 TPM, I don't know if that was ever accepted by Uncle George to be honest. Everything afterwards, they did at the LF canon committee. The changes to the Clone Wars era, on the other hand, are quite a mess. I think it's due in no small part to Uncle George changing his mind midway through. The other option is to do what Star Trek did: have an in-universe timeline split some time after Return of the Jedi, and have two diverging universes from there, both fully canon. Multiple points of juncture, like Infinities, and even the events of Soul Calibur 4. There was a spinoff where Han and Chewie crashed to earth and died, and then Indiana Jones found the wreckage centuries later commenting how it "felt strangely familiar". The joke of course being the same actor portraying both characters. There would be a point where all of the materials up to that point would be shared across both universes, after which the original EU goes one way, and the new films with their own EU go another. I know that time travel is more of a Star Trek hard sci-fi thing that it is Star Wars, but you could get away with it if you took a mystical approach rather than a technological one, with the idea that the Force binds all space and time, which would include alternate realities. Such a thing could even provide an opportunity for unity between the two timelines, with a certain catalyst in the original EU that cases the past to change, and bridging the two universes, possibly with a character. Well, if Vader, Starkiller, and Yoda went through Astral Chaos to reach Earth to search for Soul Edge and Soul Calibur, and Astral Chaos is a more mystic approach to time travel, undoing and redoing reality, I see no problem with this. There are plenty of possibilities that would keep almost everyone happy. Disney took none of them. Not only is the post-Jedi timeline affected now, but they've destroyed the entire EU, rewriting eras that need not be rewritten and have little to do with the new film. The armor of Kylo Ren comes across to me personally as something of a Revan knockoff, or more like a sith warrior outfit from SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkonium Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Well, the new Rebels stuff is stepping on TCW with the inquisitors, since even TCW had numerous references to the rule of two sith. Lucas himself even made up Darth Bane and the rule of two background. So the inconsistency will be there, and one needn't look very hard for it. That problem's pretty easy to solve. The Inquisitors aren't Sith, and thus don't violate the Rule of Two. They actually existed in the EU in more or less the same form before being introduced into the new Canon via Rebels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.