POLL: How are you going to play ReMI?

[ThunderPeel2001]

12 minutes ago, BillyCheers said:

But I expected a really great movie, nothing life changing…

Yep, you kept your expectations in check  

[BaronGrackle]

29 minutes ago, BillyCheers said:

It probably is. Even if it lacks good old Harrison. The old ones are a fun movies, but sometimes pretty trashy,

Like... am I allowed to make a new thread on this topic? (I need all three of you to tell me whether you think the First Order was tiny with few military forces and little power, or if you think it was large and "reigning" over most of the galaxy at that point. And also whether you think it affects the quality of a narrative when the film can't decide. Because to call the old ones "pretty trashy"... I always had a sense of what the setting actually was - how big the good guys and bad guys were - in every Star Wars product, until the three Sequel films.)

Edited September 7, 2022 by BaronGrackle

[KestrelPi]

About expectations I do think it's possible to separate your excitement from your expectations, to a certain extent, but they are linked. I feel like expectations don't rule my excitement, exactly, but it can be used to help me know where to direct it. They're just an... estimate about how much I'm going to like something. I've found that generally something hits PRETTY close to my expectations, and the more I know about something in advance (to an extent) the more accurate my expectations are.

 

For example, if I'd gone on a complete media blackout on ReMI since the announcement I'd have no idea where to set my expectations because I haven't seen anything. I'd be very, very excited, but I'd have no way to think about whether and how my excitement would be matched by the game we get. But then again if I'd allowed myself to watch the trailer and a couple of other tidbits, maybe I'd be more excited about certain details than I ought to be, because I really enjoyed the trailer and certain comments made in interviews.

 

As it is, I've looked at everything I can, but I won't be seeking out major story spoilers when the game comes out. This, to me at least, has lent my excitement a sense of... realism? I'm still very excited about the game, of course, but I've seen enough to know I'll probably like some bits more than others, maybe not everything will hit the way I'd like it to, but it's playing with some really cool ideas and I think I'll have a great time with it over all.

 

I remember very much the same process happening with No Man's Sky. People who didn't play very close attention were expecting it to be some life-changing forever-game where you can do anything, but actually in interviews and stuff the developers were really clear that in it's first iteration it was really supposed to be this slow, relaxing, vibey sort of experience, and with that knowledge I got what I wanted out of it. More recently, I quite enjoyed a game called Biomutant. I wasn't blown away by it, but I wasn't really disappointed either because the more I looked at the pre-release material it the more I realised that it was a 7/10-as-heck game, and if I approached it like that then I'd have a nice time.

 

I feel like I know what ReMI is trying to be, at this point. I'm ready to meet it on its terms.  I can't wait, and my excitement is still all the way up here *indicates a high spot* to see where they go with the story, the intro, to learn the secret, to hear the new soundtrack, to spend time in this world again - but my overall expectations are just that I'll have a good time and come out the other side fairly happy.

21 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

Like... am I allowed to make a new thread on this topic? (I need all three of you to tell me whether you think the First Order was tiny with few military forces and little power, or if you think it was large and "reigning" over most of the galaxy at that point. And also whether you think it affects the quality of a narrative when the film can't decide. Because to call the old ones "pretty trashy"... I always had a sense of what the setting actually was - how big the good guys and bad guys were - in every Star Wars product, until the three Sequel films.)

 

You can if you want, but I don't think I'll join in. You  actually don't need me or anyone else to tell you whether I think the First Order was blahblahblahvhfdjsklf because I literally do not care, it has little to no bearing on what I think of that film, and I like you but I don't feel any need to justify my liking of it to your satisfaction 🙂. I've had all the conversations I can possibly bear to have about why I think The Last Jedi is great (not perfect, but really great) and heard what I think is every single point that everyone has ever made about why they disagree, years ago - and I'm not especially interested in revisiting it again 😅

 

(incidentally I also think this would be a perfectly understandable response for EMI-likers to have - I get that it can be frustrating when you like something a lot and everyone always seems to want to 'disprove' you. You don't have an obligation to justify your liking of something. It's just that I also think that it's reasonable to expect that people's opinions of EMI might come up from time to time on the Mixnmojo forums 😄)

 

 

[BaronGrackle]

37 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

You  actually don't need me or anyone else to tell you whether I think the First Order was blahblahblahvhfdjsklf because I literally do not care, it has little to no bearing on what I think of that film,

You have answered with "I do not care", and thank you for that. For me, I need an actual setting that attempts to be cohesive within itself. I don't think I could ever rate a work of media that doesn't even attempt a coherent setting, above other media in the same genre that do go to the trouble of basic storytelling.

 

37 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

(incidentally I also think this would be a perfectly understandable response for EMI-likers to have - I get that it can be frustrating when you like something a lot and everyone always seems to want to 'disprove' you. You don't have an obligation to justify your liking of something. It's just that I also think that it's reasonable to expect that people's opinions of EMI might come up from time to time on the Mixnmojo forums 😄)

EMI is an actual story that has coherent setting. I defend EMI because... while it does take narrative retcons that don't always make sense, and it makes story decisions many of us find weaker... we do have a tangible storyline that can be followed. I know Guybrush's situation. I learn the situation of the world and his enemies. It's an actual story; you can describe what's happening in it. I'll defend MI4 any day.

 

EDIT: I had forgotten how much reflecting on Star Wars gets me optimistic about everything else in general. I think I might be more hyped about RMI... about Ron Gilbert's role in it... about Disney's approach to it... more hyped for it than I've ever been.

Edited September 7, 2022 by BaronGrackle

[ThunderPeel2001]

2 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

You have answered with "I do not care", and thank you for that. For me, I need an actual setting that attempts to be cohesive within itself. I don't think I could ever rate a work of media that doesn't even attempt a coherent setting, above other media in the same genre that do go to the trouble of basic storytelling.

 

I think that's a pretty high bar, and one that Monkey Island would fail. (What exactly does a governor do on an island inhabited by pirates? Where were all the pirate ships? How did LeChuck really make them too afraid to go sailing? How long had they been landlocked? Most of the inhabitants looked like permanent residents of Melee.)

 

As for the size of the First Order, I felt they weren't all dominating (like the Empire was), but they were growing, gaining support, and becoming powerful. They'd started taking control of systems and were threatening to keep going. A bit like Germany before WWII really kicked off: A nuisance that had become a credible threat that couldn't be ignored. (Of course, I'm ignoring the dirge that Rise introduced.)

[BaronGrackle]

1 hour ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

I think that's a pretty high bar, and one that Monkey Island would fail. (What exactly does a governor do on an island inhabited by pirates? Where were all the pirate ships? How did LeChuck really make them too afraid to go sailing? How long had they been landlocked? Most of the inhabitants looked like permanent residents of Melee.)

Eh, the bar's not so high. The medium itself has a layer of comedy/absurdity that Star Wars lacks, but even apart from that, the overall setting is clearly an island of pirates. The governor has vaguely defined leadership over them and definitely has her mansion looted periodically, the pirate ships are understood to be off-screen like Thimbleweed Park houses and residents, the time period for how long LeChuck has had them scared/landlocked is indefinite but doesn't affect the story, and of course the inhabitants look like permanent residents of Mêlée.

 

1 hour ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

As for the size of the First Order, I felt they weren't all dominating (like the Empire was), but they were growing, gaining support, and becoming powerful. They'd started taking control of systems and were threatening to keep going. A bit like Germany before WWII really kicked off: A nuisance that had become a credible threat that couldn't be ignored. (Of course, I'm ignoring the dirge that Rise introduced.)

If that's true (I'm not sure Lucasfilm has given an opinion or whether Johnson or Abrams have even thought about it), it raises a slew of questions as to how the chase of the film could have happened. How were there no other First Order ships that could have lightspeed-jumped ahead of the Resistance ships? How were they unable to send TIE Fighters to attack the Resistance ships, especially considering the ease in which Finn's and Rose's party left the ships and returned multiple times? If Finn and Rose were able to leave the chase and return multiple times, how was the Resistance unable to evacuate other members similarly (it's not a large number - they all fit on the Falcon at the end).

 

How is the New Galactic Republic nonexistent after a single system is destroyed in a surprise terrorist strike, after which the weapon that performed the terrorist strike is subsequently destroyed? Before TLJ, the First Order as seen in TFA was demonstrated to be incapable of defeating Resistance forces in open combat (fleeing after they were roflstomped at Takodana). Then the Resistance leveled their doomsday weapon - their only credible threat. What changed? How did they go to "the First Order reigns" in TLJ opening crawl? What film evidence is there that can make us believe the First Order is a credible threat to anyone, at this point?

 

You can stretch your headcanon to come up with reasonable answers, but they won't be VERY reasonable answers... and this stuff weighs on TLJ (a film trying to take itself seriously, one presumes) far more than the specific logistics of Monkey Island games.

 

Monkey Island might be unclear about "how many ships are on Mêlée and how long have they been stranded?" But The Last Jedi is unclear on "do the bad guys have a lot of armies, at least more than we see onscreen?"

 

The Last Jedi (and the other Sequel films) fail on levels of storytelling that the most basic of films, cartoons, and video games clear with ease. None of the Monkey Island games come nearly so low to the ground in quality, narrative, or basic effort..

 

"The best." Whew. Maybe the best of the Sequels. Maybe.

Edited September 7, 2022 by BaronGrackle

[Niemandswasser]

That's odd--did a mod change the name of the "Let's expend precious time and energy on relitigating the same Star Wars arguments everyone got bored with years ago so that we'll all have one more thing to regret on our deathbeds" thread to "How are you going to play ReMI?" That's weird, I wonder when that happened.

[BaronGrackle]

2 minutes ago, Niemandswasser said:

That's odd--did a mod change the name of the "Let's expend precious time and energy on relitigating the same Star Wars arguments everyone got bored with years ago so that we'll all have one more thing to regret on our deathbeds" thread to "How are you going to play ReMI?" That's weird, I wonder when that happened.

Yeah yeah, have the thread back. 😛 But please, no more jokes. I can't help laughing at jokes.

[Remi]

Meanwhile, I'll be playing the game slowly but I won't hesitate to use in-game hints if I'm stuck. I still have nightmares of being stuck in MI2 on the Amiga waiting for a magazine walkthrough to help me continue. (The puzzle: Putting Kate's flier on the wanted poster.)

[BaronGrackle]

I'll be playing with my children. They're in school and my wife isn't big on video games when we all do things together, so it'll probably take a while.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I think you've just defined cognitive bias in a single post!

 

44 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

The Last Jedi (and the other Sequel films) fail on levels of storytelling that the most basic of films, cartoons, and video games clear with ease. None of the Monkey Island games come nearly so low to the ground in quality, narrative, or basic effort..

 

Let me ask you this: Considering the Empire is run by a dark lord of the Sith, leveraging all the dark powers to gain control over the galaxy. And considering his puppet, his second-in-command throughout the entire journey to power, is another lord of the Sith. And considering how easily and willing they are to demonstrate their powers to anyone who even slightly displeases them. And considering the entire Galactic Republic, which was entirely policed by an army Jedi using The Force at every opportunity, is still well within living memory.

 

And considering anyone can make use of these powers and feel something with as little as 10 seconds of tutelage...

 

WHY IS ANYONE SKEPTICAL THAT THE FORCE IS REAL?

 

And how is it that someone high up in the Empire council could question the existence of those powers?

 

Quote: Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader.

 

It makes zero sense. (And why, when they created a Star Wars MMORPG, it fell to pieces: There were Jedi everywhere in a matter of minutes.)

 

 

21 minutes ago, Niemandswasser said:

That's odd--did a mod change the name of the "Let's expend precious time and energy on relitigating the same Star Wars arguments everyone got bored with years ago so that we'll all have one more thing to regret on our deathbeds" thread to "How are you going to play ReMI?" That's weird, I wonder when that happened.

 

Well I was busy writing my reply when you wrote that! Bottom line: Star Wars is silly, nonsensical, and great fun.

Edited September 7, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[BaronGrackle]

I'll start that thread...

[Wally B.]

1 minute ago, BaronGrackle said:

I'll start that thread...

So I can finally post my wall of text on why the best Star Wars movie is actually the second Ewok movie! 

[ThunderPeel2001]

3 minutes ago, Wally B. said:

So I can finally post my wall of text on why the best Star Wars movie is actually the second Ewok movie! 

 

Has anyone ever sat through the Holiday Special? Holy cow... that's rough going.

[Wally B.]

2 minutes ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

Has anyone ever sat through the Holiday Special? Holy cow... that's rough going.

Me and my girlfriend actually did!

I wanted to write that, but I thought it would have been too cliche

[Remi]

I think we all should be grateful Bea Arthur is part of the official Star Wars canon.

 

[Niemandswasser]

15 minutes ago, Wally B. said:

So I can finally post my wall of text on why the best Star Wars movie is actually the second Ewok movie! 

Go ahead--you have The Power.

[LowLevel]

I am not sure how to conform to the discussion, so I will state that I will play the game as slowly as a AT-AT walker.

[ThunderPeel2001]

3 hours ago, Wally B. said:

Me and my girlfriend actually did!

 

I did... but only with the help of RiffTrax... and even with them making jokes all the way through it was tough going!

 

So weird that Boba Fett appears in it, though!

Edited September 8, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[Captain Mystery]

LIKE A FIDDLE!

Oh, wait, sorry, I thought this was about manipulating @Remi 

 

Is it wrong that I'm thinking of taking the day off work for playing on launch day? I am not very strong willed and can easily see myself trying to find all the spoilers online. Should imagine some rum might be nice to sip on, or some nice green grog if I can find tankards strong enough for it.

PS: It's also the Quantum Leap premiere that day, so I'm in geek heaven.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Captain Mystery

[Remi]

13 minutes ago, Captain Mystery said:

LIKE A FIDDLE!

Oh, wait, sorry, I thought this was about manipulating @Remi 

 

Is it wrong that I'm thinking of taking the day off work for playing on launch day? I am not very strong willed and can easily see myself trying to find all the spoilers online. Should imagine some rum might be nice to sip on, or some nice green grog if I can find tankards strong enough for it.

PS: It's also the Quantum Leap premiere that day, so I'm in geek heaven.

>:

 

I took three days off. Judge if you like, but that Quantum Leap admission will forever hang over you. ;-*

[Captain Mystery]

2 minutes ago, Remi said:

I took three days off. Judge if you like, but that Quantum Leap admission will forever hang over you. ;-*

OH BOY 

[Romão]

I really don't think any great piece of storytelling can truly be "spoiled". Sure, some stories can lose the impact of the revelation when you come up upon it the first time, but if plot twists is all a story has going for it, it's not much of a story. And story is always more important (and less "spoilable") than plot.

 

 

On another point, I hope Steam will have some sort of achievement for completing the game without using the hint book. That's an extra bit of motivation to keep me from resorting to it.

 

I want to get stuck eventually. It's definitely not a game I want o breeze through. I hope it lives with me for quite a bit

Edited September 8, 2022 by Romão

[KestrelPi]

6 hours ago, Romão said:

I really don't think any great piece of storytelling can truly be "spoiled". Sure, some stories can lose the impact of the revelation when you come up upon it the first time, but if plot twists is all a story has going for it, it's not much of a story. And story is always more important (and less "spoilable") than plot.

 

 

On another point, I hope Steam will have some sort of achievement for completing the game without using the hint book. That's an extra bit of motivation to keep me from resorting to it.

 

I want to get stuck eventually. It's definitely not a game I want o breeze through. I hope it lives with me for quite a bit

 

Not to put words in @ThunderPeel2001's mouth but I think the point is that it's not just twists that can be spoiled. Arguably knowing about any of the story in advance is a spoiler, and seeing any sort of cool moment whether it's a twist or not could be a spoiler.

 

I can't personally live like that, because first of all I think it's super hard to draw the line and secondly as I've talked about I think knowing a certain amount of what to expect sometimes can be useful in setting appropriate expectations (see what I've said about why I wasn't disappointed by No Man's Sky, for example).

 

But I think to be fair we have to acknowledge that when we talk spoilers we're not just talking twists.

 

But something I think is true is that if something has true quality, the first watch of it is only a small part of the experience. So much the stuff I like the most rewarded repeat viewings. Heck, I have no idea what my first watch of Back to the Future was like. But I LOVE that trilogy and rewatch it often, and still sometimes notice new things. That said, I've also talked about how I usually only have time to play a game once or twice, even if I really like it, so perhaps there's something to be said for the idea that the first (possibly only) play through of a video game is best left purer. I get that.

 

I just can't bring myself to spend a lot of energy worrying about it. My first play of ReMI will be fine. I don't need an altar and candles.

[BillyCheers]

1 hour ago, KestrelPi said:

My first play of ReMI will be fine. I don't need an altar and candles.