Scripting Is Cheating?

[RahnDelSol]

I have one move scripted, the blue lunge is attached to one of my extra mouse buttons. It's not perfect, I don't land the move every single time, but it seems to work okay.

 

I have problems with my hands and wrists, so I have to keep everything as simple as possible. W+A+S+D are my movement keys, Q and E are pull/push...R, F, and G, I usually bind to other force powers. After playing for a short period of time, I have trouble moving my fingers far enough to hit W and C so I can pull off the move. I can hit upper row keys okay, but my ability to hit lower row keys suffers, and I do have to take breaks on occasion to keep my hands from getting too stiff.

 

The other "special" moves don't require too much effort, so I don't bother with scripting those. I don't think it'd be beneficial anyway.

 

Just tossing in an example of where a script helps someone who physically has trouble hitting the keys sometimes

[SettingShadow]

Originally posted by FK|FallenOne

I never said I was the greatest kicker of all time, however YOU did decide to talk crap for no reason, and now when it's coming back at you, you can't take it, can't accept a simple challenge. If you're going to run your mouth, accept the challenge, or DONT SAY ANYTHING! How hard is that? If you're ready to flame, back it up. You talk the talk, but hell, you aren't anywhere near close to walking the walk. Now stfu and go away.

 

I said it because of this little comment:

 

homicidalegg - THANK YOU! I've been trying to beat that very same point into idiots for MONTHS!!!

 

I took that as you said I was an idiot! And why would I accept your challenge? It seems to me that you are trying to prove something, do you really need to prove anything?

[thehomicidalegg]

PowerBroker:

 

Great post and argument! Very unbiased and balanced, and i agree with most of what you said and especially your main point.

 

there are few things i like to comment on

 

... , scripting allows the player to execute a possibly extremely complex maneuver, which could not be accomplished by sufficient hand coordination.

 

This is the most common misconception of scripting. It is simply impossible to bind complex commands via scripts and expects to succeed. The more complex something is, the more chance it has of going wrong. This is the case with scripts. More strings and variables = Less chance of coming off right.

 

Also the simple way in which raven can eradicate certain scripts in which some exploitation of the engine, eg. yawspeed, is to eliminating the client's power to adjust this in game.

 

I see gaining an unfair advantage and cheating as 2 similar but different things. It is not possible to have a totally equal, fair and balanced fights. Different force allignments, map environments, player skill levels, computers' quality and many other factors introduces a advantage-disadvantage system that determines the result of the game. If a totally equal, fair and balanced fight is possible then the fight will end in a stalemate, or by luck deciding the result(then one could also argue that this wasnt 'fair'). Although this would not be the case in most games with players of some degrees of experiences, in a game where the players are mainly inexperienced or 'n00bs', most of the scripts would prove an unfair advantage to the others. This however is again, i stress, a minority of all cases, but whether it is cheating or not, every1 has their opinions.

[Datheus]

Gah, for the last time:

 

Saber fighting is all about timing and mouse control. Period. Scripts can't do EITHER of those things for you. If a scripter can kick your ass, the fact of the matter is, if he took the time to learn how to do a move on command WITHOUT scripts, he'd STILL whoop your ass. And don't try to argue that by saying that he should have to learn the moves. That takes about 2 days. Tops. You lost, get over it, move on. I've known how to do just about every trick in the book since I've played this game. I wasn't able to apply it until I got some experience under my belt. Timing and mouse control, that's all it is. I hate to break it to you, folks, but you're all blowing scripts way out of proportion.

[PowerBroker]

Originally posted by thehomicidalegg

This is the most common misconception of scripting. It is simply impossible to bind complex commands via scripts and expects to succeed. The more complex something is, the more chance it has of going wrong. This is the case with scripts. More strings and variables = Less chance of coming off right.

 

While that is mostly true, it is, however difficult, theoretically possible to write a complex script that might be able to give you an advantage. It is a long shot, I know, and I've never seen a player actually pull off such a script, but it is a possibility that should not be discounted.

 

Actually, I've found that the only useful scripts are saberlock breakers, binding comparable light and dark side powers to one key, and some special saber moves (I've had success binding a DFA move, though it is a bit unstable).

[Luc Solar]

Oh wow. It seems every time I come back to these forums, someone has started a new thread about scripting.

 

I bet 20% of my post count deals with this subject...but still, despite of my efforts I'm forced to read the same retarded crap over and over again! What crap, you ask? Well how about:

 

* everyone can script so it isn't cheating.

 

(Yes, everyone can also cheat. So cheating isn't cheating? Great logic )

 

* scripts don't give you an advantage.

 

(Yeah right... so these totally l337 people are just handicapping themselves so that the rest of us would get a chance to beat them?

Of course scripts give you an advantage. Perhaps the JO demi-gods do just fine without them, but let's not pretend that it isn't advantageous to have a 100% successfull lunge or a saber lock script that taps fire 10x faster than any human ever could?

 

* scripters can be beaten.

 

(Yes, and we all would probably lose to Tyson even though we used metal plates inside our gloves. Why would the possibility of beating a scripter have any relevance?)

 

 

This topic annoys the hell out of me. WHY can't people just PLAY the game? Practise, get better, win. WHY would you go into the basejk- (or whatever) folder and create few notepad files with more or less complicated series of commands and them bind them to certain keys? JUST PLAY THE DAMN GAME!

 

 

And no, I do not have to draw the line between cheat-scripts and scripts that aren't cheating. Just like it is not necessary to find the fine line that separates slapping someone from assault and battery when the guy is bleeding to death with a broken skull.

 

Scripts are nowhere near the line. Special controllers might make me think about it for a moment, but all this pull-backstab-yawspeed-script-crap... If someone thinks that is cool then...I honestly feel sorry for you.

[lightspeed]

In my mind scripting is OK if it is not used constantly or used to pull off like 8 moves in a row.

[Break_dF]

Originally posted by Homosexual Ewok

 

Hehe it wasn't trash talking guy, but I would be more than happy to hop on over to the TWL 1v1 ladder and hand you a 10-0.

 

 

That was a joke, don't get frisky.

 

And BTW, good luck to you and your guys w/ the FotS match.

 

 

10-0, Ewok, don't you think that's alittle extreme? It'd be more like 10-1...if you give him 3 or 4...

[Break_dF]

Originally posted by Homosexual Ewok

 

Before your match with Mal you played me (Sanguis Frater | Unnamed) in our server (you played SF-Swift also).

 

We both put you down pretty easy.

Both of us could take Mal 20-0.

You took him 10-9.

 

Having played pretty much every "Elite" FF duelist in this game (except for a few from 1.02 when I never played FF duels) I think I can judge ability and strategy pretty well.

 

No offense, but you would not have lasted 30 seconds against dF.

 

I'm not trying to insult you or anything, I have respect for both you and the ability of the members of your clan, so don't take the above the wrong way, it's just most people really have no idea how hard this guy was/is to beat.

 

 

 

This makes me want to come out of "retirement"...

[thehomicidalegg]

Originally posted by PowerBroker

While that is mostly true, it is, however difficult, theoretically possible to write a complex script that might be able to give you an advantage. It is a long shot, I know, and I've never seen a player actually pull off such a script, but it is a possibility that should not be discounted.

 

OK, i see your point. There is a huge overweighted paranoia counting on that possiblity though:p

 

Actually, I've found that the only useful scripts are saberlock breakers, binding comparable light and dark side powers to one key, and some special saber moves (I've had success binding a DFA move, though it is a bit unstable).

 

I agree:

FACT: the only useful combat script that gives an advantage is the sabrelock breaker script, ie bind x "+attack; -attack". However this only involves a narrow facet of the game.

 

All the set up scripts are useful though, ie.. force/name/sabre/model/etc etc. but that isnt really being discussd here.

 

 

LUC SOLAR:

 

First, calm down man, it's just a discussion after all:)

 

First point, i agree. every being able to do it is not a reason for something being right or not cheating

 

2nd point, i agree with you to a certain extent. some scripts are advantageous and in somesituations as i've stated before, but the above cases excluded labelling some one is scripting as a reason for him/her to deny he/she messed up somewhere and didnt win. Scripts doesnt make you win. How you play makes you win, its how you string the moves together, how you choose to attack and defend, and the combating strategies that decides the fights. You can not script this, and scripting being just automated commands, NOT the yawspeed or other loopholes, does not imbalance the fight. All of these moves can be executed easily... the hardest being pressing 3 buttons together(pull+something scripts simply arent effective) : Crouch, attack, forward. If someone cannot press these 3 buttons together at the same time, then yeh scripting does give you an 'unfair advantage' but seriously? You dont need to be a demigod to do and learn the moves in jk2.

 

One unfair thing about scripts is that it give ppl shortcuts to the moves rather than them learning and practicing. But in the end, the scripters are at a disadvantage anyway as they do not understand the moves as the ppl who practiced them does, and unless the scripter only plays among "newbies", he would not fare too well. The scripts would stop him from becoming "1337", prolly the delusion that made him comabt-script in the 1st place.

 

3rd point: The thing is theres a mass paranoia about scripting being all powerful. This is wrong, totally untrue, and serves only for people to find excuses when they loose. Why is it important to know that scripters arent as good as people who actually tried hard to master the game? Because Good players are labelled as 'scripters' and are thus scapegoated and abused. Top players are being kicked out and rejected by servers and game communities as they believe only scripts can do this and do that When in the end SCRIPTS ARE NOT ALL POWERFUL AND ONLY HARD WORK CAN SUCCEED IN MASTERING THE GAME. The misconception of scripting is detrimental to the gaming community and to the game itself.

 

I partially agree with your last point. THERE IS NO POINT IN DISCUSSING SCRIPTS/CHEATS, one SHOULD just get on the game and play. HOWEVER, there are many people who won't do that. There are people deliberately flaming others because of self-defficiencies, or because of frustration of lack of abilities and uses SCRIPTS as a righteous excuse. This has built up a huge series of misconceptions that in the end resulted in the illusion of THE scripts.

 

I just want to shed some light on the scripts as they are not would they are puffed up to be. By understanding what scripts are, there are no longer any need for these repetitive useless arguments of ego and endless flames, and, finally, ....instead of worrying ...GET ON PLAYING THE GAME.

[Homosexual Ewok]

Originally posted by Break_dF

 

 

10-0, Ewok, don't you think that's alittle extreme? It'd be more like 10-1...if you give him 3 or 4...

 

No.

 

Originally posted by Break_dF

 

This makes me want to come out of "retirement"...

 

You should.

 

Well, at least come destroy FotS with me for old times sake (they hate me more than you now).

[Break_dF]

FotS eh?...hmm, sounds like a good last match to have . I hate those bastards...hook me up w/ some details.

[naossoan]

scripting is NOT cheating. You can do it right from the game interface! *AHEM* scripting is basically making macros but in a more efficient way. YOU CAN MAKE MACROS RIGHT IN THE GAME - WHICH IS A SCRIPT - THEREFORE MAKING YOUR OWN SCRIPT OUTSIDE OF THE GAME USING NOTEPAD IS THE EXACT SAME THING AND THEREFORE IS NOT CHEATING. END OF STORY SO STOP YOUR FREAKING WHINING

[Ion]

Scripting is definately NOT cheating. If everyone is alowed to do it, it should not be considered "h@><0Rzz"

[scorch_]

Ok some people write scripts to help them aim, is this not cheating? Making the gameplay more efficient? I'm sure if the devs wanted you to be able to do special moves in 1 key press there would be a key in the menu.

 

I dont recall asking how to script I can do it quite effectivly, I recall asking if you consider it cheating and if not why with a good reason. So far most people have still said "because everyone can it isn't cheating" Are no recoil scripts in cs cheating? There's a good example of a script that doesn't modify the game engine at all. Where do you draw the line with scripts? Why dont people play the game based on their own skill?

[naossoan]

Sorry I think I posted in the wrong forum. I was searching for macros for starwars galaxies. Is this the Jedi Knight game section?

[SpecialForces]

I think scripts are fine but its not good to whore with them. Especialy the kick one....

[lotr-sam0711]

A kyle said: "whaaa"

 

I dont have a clue!!??!!??

[Haku]

Scripting and binding keys to special moves etc is not cheating in accordance with rules of the game. What are the rules - you are given the opportunity to play against other online gamers with the same facilities at their finger tips. The difference is the degree of knowledge. I think it is a merit of jk2 that there is more to it than simple textbook gameplay. It has the alure of something like a kind of '(cyber)occult' knowledge and so of being able to extend an individuals knowledge beyond what is given in its initial exposition (i.e. the game play manual).

 

I like the fact that knowledge can be potentially extended and that more can be learned / potentially learned than just the everyday moves. However, I think that there is something shyte about binding special moves and enhancing functions from a personal point of view, in particular, to wh*re below average players - In my opinion, doing so detracts playing with a certain degree of skill on a general basis. This is probably why the manuals and intitial set up is configured the way it is (i.e. to allow players to feel they are playing with a satisfactory degree of skill).

 

I guess that if someone is obviously going out and using scripts to enhance their gameplay they maybe one of three things: 1, either bored with general gameplay and looking to practice skills in another area (display mastery beyond the highest levels of ordinary (non scripted) play); 2, possessed by the desire to annihilate everyone they encounter (power freaks - and I guess there is a little of that in everyone or there would be no complaints at being annihilated by scripters - and it is the general object of gameplay afterall (though if you are just after the high score this is kind of pathetic - even though there is certain respect to be had from obtaining it. You got it (high score / respect) the easy way if you scripted your moves...perhaps, and in most cases... i think); or 3, are just plain shyte and depressed at getting their ass kicked a lot. It seems, however, that in a number of cases scripters (of moves/ enhancements, etc.) are above average skilled gameplayers in the first instance i.e. know the moves pretty well anyway, and are only thereby seeking slight advantages (against other good players) in using them.

 

Scripters (of the type mentioned) needn't be considered complete spoliers -

 

1) they find / have found and can potentially share knowledge

 

2) they can allow their opponents who play with the 'default' settings to improve their skills at everyday levels of gameplay - in effect it is always better to play against someone better than you (or you will never advance in your skill / learning, etc.)

 

3) they give the opportunity for the game to be played at a different level.

 

If knowledge can be had, it can be obtained for use. If it can be obtained for use it can be used or not used. Having knowledge increases the options a person has, and so opens up avenues of choice and opportunity. The real cheat is when the doors are closed in all directions - only then is there nowhere to go and only then are individuals robbed.....

 

If everyone used scripts to enhance moves the game would be played at a different level (whether better or worse .... who can tell....?)

 

In my opion, the important thing is that a player plays the game in a way that gives him / her individual satisfaction.

 

Blaming others for your personal dissatisfaction is no excuse for your abilities. Nevertheless, I think that when the game is played with the good moves made easier (particularly if this were to be the case all the time) then it would detract something significantly good from the game (i.e. make it less satisfactory in some way - or for me at least..... perhaps others will agree also?). I think the programmers got it about right with the level of difficulty in the original configuration. Not so difficult that if people use so called 'cheats' you can't ever win, and not so easy that the game is just about reaching the highest score in the fastest time.

 

Just my opinion....

[FK | unnamed]

hah there is some cool history in this thread.

 

btw Homosexual Ewok was a god, bow to him.

[Rumor]

stfu newbie.

[lllKyNeSlll]

Ya there is some pretty funny history, imagine enmity between uj and fallen and kynes back when he was a super newbie

[flamemaler911]

How Do you script????? You talked about it but you never said how!!!!

[flamemaler911]

Haku, you talked about scripting and all but u never said how to do it!! Is there some was you could tell me. Or maybe someone else can tell me. Please.

[Tosh_UK]

The amount of times i get called scripter is untrue... I dont use scripts as i can do the moves very well with out them. if some ones better than you at kicking try counter kicking. as in get out the way and kick him when he landing.

 

for the lenth of time i have been playing JK2 i only loaded one script.. that was to turn recording on and off.