leXX Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 What are your thoughts on this. Why did Dooku have force lightning and Vader didn't? They are both Lords after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Groovy Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Hrm more on this yet to be revealed. Meditate on this I will. [edit- Maul didnt have lightning either ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarlacc Food Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 becouse Vader chose GRIP and Dooku chose lightning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leXX Posted November 25, 2002 Author Share Posted November 25, 2002 There has to be more to it than a simple matter of choice! Is grip more powerful than lightning? I always thought lighting was more powerful and that is why Sidious used it. Surely Vader would use the most powerful force power if given a choice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy867 Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Well, it Depends upon the training. If Vader had no knowledge of the lightning, since he basically forgot nearly everything when he was Anakin, he might have not had knowledge. And with the clone wars, a lot of the jedi holocrons, which contained information on Jedi Force Powers being destroyed, there would be no record. So, it might have just been that the first time Vader saw Force Lightning was when he was watching Palpatine fry Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Dooku 2 Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Count Dooku had previous skill and experiance with the Force, from being a Jedi Master and all. Anakin, when he became Darth Vader, did not have much control over the Force, so basically the training started from scratch (with things like Throw and Grip). Dooku already had great knowledge of the sheer power behind the Force (plus his own teachings from the Sith Holocron in the Jedi Temple), and so was able to handle the more challenging powers like Lightning. The Count probably has the knowledge to use Force Grip, but didn't use it against the Jedi because Lightning seemed the more... destructive power to use. Also, Darth Vader wears gloves, whereas the people who have used Lightning so far (Dooku and Palpatine) do not. Maybe a glove or material covering the hand can disrupt the flow of Lightning? Plus, Vader's right hand is mechanical, so surely Lightning would overload the circuitry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leXX Posted November 25, 2002 Author Share Posted November 25, 2002 I'm liking the mechanical overload and the gloves idea. I don't think lightning would go down well with all his curcuitry and I don't see how he could use lightning while wearing gloves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Is there anything canonical that says Vader doesn't have lightning? He may very well know how to do it, but just chooses not to. Maybe choking people is more his style... or maybe lightning has a problem going through space while force choking doesn't. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pad Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 maybe it has something to do with their force speciality (as i call it). dooku was more specialised in lightnin and vader in grip. thats what i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiran Halcyon Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 In the old trilogy, lightsaber duels barely had no use of the force, just telekinesis... Darth Vader did not want to harm seriously Luke. Grip is more frightening for casual people, who are the ones Vader uses it with. About the mechanical hand, well luke and Vader did use the force to take things to their hands so the force may not be influenced by mechanicals. Of course the shorcircuit thing is still feasible - That is why Vader died, isn't it? And Vader DID choke people with a gloved hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiran Halcyon Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 And anyway, Dooku has more 'knowledge of the FORCE' He is twice the age as Darth Vader's and A jedi Master before becaming a Sith lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy867 Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 My question is whether or not Vader's left hand is mechnanical, or just decided to wear 2 gloves so that he matched. If he did have a normal hand/arm, he could have used lightning (if he knew of it and knew how to use it). Although, I don't see force lightning being the same kind of electrical current as lightning we see... Lightning that WE as people can see has enough power to light NYC for a whole year (according to a statistical survey) so for the lightning used in SW, I think it wouldn't have affected his circuitry. I thin Vader died because the Emperor used the force lightning on him, and force lightning is very fatal. And in Vader's condition, after losing his hand (again), he was in a weakened state, where as Luke was younger, healthier, and stronger. Any comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pad Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 his left hand wasnt mechanical, thats what i think. and i believe vader died because he wanted to see lukes face true his real eyes. so he/luke removed his helmed which was optional to keep him alive and without that he died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Rep Knight Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 I like the idea that Vader was "overloaded" by the lightning from the Emperor. Can you believe this movie (ROTJ) has been out since the mid-80s and that is a point still debated? Really, I still have a hard time figuring out why Vader died just from removing his helmet or getting hit once with the force lightning. Luke took more than Vader and Anakin got knocked out for a bit by it in Ep II. Perhaps Ep III will have more lightning. It definitely was cool having Yoda be able to absorb the lightning though. We all must know, given clues dropped in EpII and what we know of the original trilogy that Anakin, most likely at the hand of Obi-Wan, seriously gets carved up by a lightsaber to be so mechanical. I think he may very well have two mechanical hands/arms and could not use force lightning because of it. He was able to stop a blaster laser (Han solo, TESB) with his hand, but that's different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerBroker Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Originally posted by Old Rep Knight He was able to stop a blaster laser (Han solo, TESB) with his hand, but that's different. That was just the fire repelling off his steel armor. As for how he died, Vader said himself that it was too late for him, and he would die with or without the mask. I speculate that the metal in his armor conducted a super charge of electricity into his body, far more than could be conducted by air. This was probably enough to kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 I think vader could'nt do Lightning because he (probably) had two mechanical hands. As for how Vader died, I agree with Andy. I also don't think it's regular electricity. It has something to do with the Force. Maybe it's like force grip just a lot more powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivy Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 well imo it was the lightning that killed vader, it messed up his breathing gear and the other devices that kept him alive. so it makes sense that vader couldn't use lightning. the question i think needs answering is, if they could clone whole humans then surely they could clones body parts and vader could of had transplants instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boinga1 Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Well, here's what the starwars.com databank has to say: "Unable to watch anymore, Vader turned against his master. He grabbed a surprised Palpatine from behind, hoisted him above his head, and tossed his evil master down a bottomless reactor shaft. Vader was bombarded by the Emperor's Force lightning, mortally wounding him." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plo_Koon_27 Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Originally posted by Old Rep Knight I like the idea that Vader was "overloaded" by the lightning from the Emperor. Can you believe this movie (ROTJ) has been out since the mid-80s and that is a point still debated? Really, I still have a hard time figuring out why Vader died just from removing his helmet or getting hit once with the force lightning. Luke took more than Vader and Anakin got knocked out for a bit by it in Ep II. Perhaps Ep III will have more lightning. It definitely was cool having Yoda be able to absorb the lightning though. We all must know, given clues dropped in EpII and what we know of the original trilogy that Anakin, most likely at the hand of Obi-Wan, seriously gets carved up by a lightsaber to be so mechanical. I think he may very well have two mechanical hands/arms and could not use force lightning because of it. He was able to stop a blaster laser (Han solo, TESB) with his hand, but that's different. Star Wars Episode VI The Return of The Jedi has been out since 1982 and yes it is something that this subject is still debated exactly 20 years later. The mask is what kept Vader alive and without it is why he died so quick. He would have died anyway but not as quickly had he not had Luke take his helmet off. (I've watched all of the originals so many times I know them by heart) that's why when he said to Luke "Luke help me take this mask off so that I may look upon you with mine own eyes" Luke said to his father "But you'll die without it". Everything that you need to know about Darth Vaders suit and helmet are explained to a great degree in the original trilogy and yes it should be explained alot more and alot better in Episode III (I hope) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taos Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 I think with Darth Maul was the fact that he wasn't that strong with the dark side of the force.......meaning that he was a better swordsman and fighter then a user of the force. The more I read on topics like this the more I'm starting to think how good of a sith Count Dooku is..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediNyt Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Vader still is better. Ya know the simplest explaination needs to be thought about. Vader just didnt have a need to use lightning, he just didnt feel like it. From the all the other explainations I think the best one is the mechanical hand and suit overloading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy867 Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 But by that same logic, any lightsaber struck by force lightning may as well have to to be overloaded, because the lightsaber itself is just concentrated energy from crystals, which lightning can move through, and would overload the circuitry inside the lightsaber, but we all know that didn't happen with Obi-wan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Dooku shouldnt have used lightning that was palpatine's move like vader and his grip:lightning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted November 27, 2002 Share Posted November 27, 2002 well luke used force grip on those gamorrean guards..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratmjedi Posted November 27, 2002 Share Posted November 27, 2002 I think that Vader did not use Lightning cause it was not his style like many people have said before me. I can also say that it was sloppy. I mean you really don't have to control it that much. It just fans out. With the Grip it is more precise. It must take more dicipline to use since no one else used it. I mean he choked people without him actually being at the location. He was very strong. The mechanical arm theory is very good as well. As for why he wore two gloves was because he had to seal his suit. He is in a whole suit so that is why he wore it like a NASA suit. As for how he died. If you notice when Luke is fighting with him and then Vader is on the floor. Then Luke tosses his Lightsaber and talks to Palpatine. Vader is already breathing hard. You can tell that his breathing is not normal. It sound like his breathing is more heavier and harder to breath. Then when Palpatine is frying Luke with the Lightining you see Vader over Palpatine's shoulders. He is breathing heavily there also. Then he picks up Palpatine and you can see that he is getting electricuted at the same time. Then afterwards he falls to the floor and Luke talks to him. Then there is the whole scene with him telling Luke to take his helmet off and the no you'll die dialogue. He was injured by Luke before Palpatine used the Lightning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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