griff38 Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 For those of you who beleive that Democracy still works in the U.S. , I have some swamp land I will sell you cheap. Since the 1rst rules and laws of this country were established, those in power have sought to change the laws & rules to consolidate their power and control. I live in Florida where the votes were thrown out by the tens of thousands, my county alone dispposed of over ten thousand presidential votes. It's been 2 years and nothing has changed for the better. In our recent senate and local goverment vote the same thing happened again. The leader of this country (no right to be called the president) had the most powerful position ever held by a single human being given to him by unelected officials. Many of which had their jobs handed to them by his Father. The people of the United States do not run their own country, it's run by the rich and powerful who can apoint anyone they want dispite majority rule. I once read somewhere the pondering of a historian who wondered "If the Romans saw the fall of their empire when the Visogoths crested the hill in site of the capital." (even though it took awhile). I beleive the U.S. version of the Visogoths have crested the hill. P.S. Iam gonna move my family to Norway or Holland, or some place like that. Griffs clips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Hmmmm.... I've heard about the "disappearing votes" before.... is it possible for you to find a source? I believe he wasn't democratically elected, but I'd just like some proof of it. The interesting question is whether Gore would have made a better President. But hey, at least he wouldn't have felt any sort of obligation to clean up the "unfinished business" his father left in the middle east. I'm thinking your post is going to attract Republican flak like a B-17 over Berlin. Better watch this one. - C'jais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 first of all america is not a democracy. its a republic. we elect officials to make decisions for us. second i hate bush and all of his plans. thank you that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercatfat Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 I honestly don't care, considering the other choice was Gore/Lieberman. I hope the latter decides not to run for presidency today. You can't blame Bush for everything. He's not the only one making the decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonces Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Get over it already, and have fun in Holland I'm really supprised that some people are still complaining about this. If Gore had asked for a state wide recount rather than just that one highly democratic county the Supreme Court never would have had to get into it. It's over, move on, Gore did not ask for a state wide recount because he knew he would lose. Recounts have been done since the 2000 election by various independant sources and Bush picked up a few thousand votes state wide I'm not going to even mention the Military absentee ballots that the Democratic lawers were trying get thrown out. Read the Supreme Court decision, and learn how our Constitution actually works next time before posting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taos Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Originally posted by mercatfat You can't blame Bush for everything. He's not the only one making the decisions. I agree with Mercatfat......there are several people there making decisions, Bush is just the figure head. It is really sad what happened in Florida a couple of years ago. You say this happened again, recently?? You would think that they have things figured out down there by now..... Didn't the USA Today dig up the votes and do their own re-count that said Bush still would have won? As far as I'm concerned....I don't think who is currently in office would have made a difference on how things are today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Torque Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Hey Insane sorry to burst thy bubble but America is a democracy a democracy is a way to rule a goverment and has the people vote for officials to lead the country and a republic like China. A republic is a large council of people who decide not the people. I think you got the two mixed up:D or maybe you thought since george bush is a republican(a person who thinks people should decide on issues without the help of a government)is in office that the government is now a republic that is not necesarily true Also yes George bush maybe be a cowhick from texas but does his decisions really affect you as a person or do you just follow what your parents think??????? Well i think George Bush is a great president even though his decissions affect me i dont take time to bikker that he has an accent which is very common in the Southwestern region of the United States of America. So if his deccisions dont affect you in any possible way dont complain and also all you democrats would Al Gore be much of a better choice i mean come on. Speech by Al Gore at presidential campaign speech On my plan Elanor Hillsby will have her medicare paid for her she will be able to rest and have good life insurance she wont have to worry about retirment and best of all she will be happy And on my openents plan her house would burn to the ground. To me this is bolagna this persons home would never burn down because of medicare costs and this proves Al Gore's lack of intellegance. I am sorry InsaneSith i have reviwed my knolagable history and have realized that i have made a mistake Britain's American colonies broke with the mother country in 1776 and were recognized as the new nation of the United States of America following the Treaty of Paris in 1783. During the 19th and 20th centuries the government was declared a federal republic which is very stongly democratic this new government form sparked these historical things some where goodand some bad, 37 new states were added to the original 13 as the nation expanded across the North American continent and acquired a number of overseas possessions. The two most traumatic experiences in the nation's history were the Civil War (1861-65) and the Great Depression of the 1930s. Buoyed by victories in World Wars I and II and the end of the Cold War in 1991, the US remains the world's most powerful nation-state. The economy is marked by steady growth, low unemployment and inflation, and rapid advances in technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZBomber Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Originally posted by InsaneSith first of all america is not a democracy. its a republic. we elect officials to make decisions for us. second i hate bush and all of his plans. thank you that is all. Actually, USA is democracy. Democracy is when you vote for your leaders. Use your mind. Go back 2 years ago. We elected a president. Good job. Have a cookie. I did not want Gore or Bush to win. Gore made pethatic lies like his grandfather invented the lightbulb or some crazy ****. Bush is Texan, so he automacially is not good. lol, jk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 looks its in the pledge for goodness sakes. we pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Torque Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 I agree with you totally Z, except the part about G Bush read my post above yours and it explains my opinion on this topic:) ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Torque Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 srry bout double post but it refers to a Republic in 1807 when the pledge was written. Its 2003 now:p see my point things change and actually Teddy Roosevelt in the 1900's was elected president he brought with him the system to run a government that he had learned of when he went on a trip to Euorope and discovered the democracy and this sparked the idea for him to be pres of the USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 You're a representative democracy last time I checked. A republic is a representative democracy. Torque, edit your new post into the old. Double posting problem solved Just as a sidenote, you can all delete your posts from the edit screen if you ever accidentally double post due to the server locking up. -C'jais thinks people should cut 'n paste some more on this forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 well a democracy is a government RUN by the people. meaning no need for an official. second if anything its a democratic republic in which we elect the officials to create laws and all that for us. if we were a democracy every citizen would be able to decide laws and whether or not to go to war. and all that. also its in the US government classes. also i dont care what my parents say im an individual i follow facts not anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Good point InsaneSith. No country has so far been completely democratic in the true sense of the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonces Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Our founding fathers were quite clear to make the distinction between a true "Democracy" and a Representative democracy, or Republic. In a Democracy the will of the majority is law. Anything is allowed, as long as the majority approves. There are no checks and balances, and the rights of the individual are not protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 I'm not going to even mention the Military absentee ballots that the Democratic lawers were trying get thrown out. The New York Times found: "• 344 of these overseas ballots had no evidence that they were cast on or before Election Day. • 183 ballots were postmarked in the United States. • 96 ballots lacked appropriate witness information. • 169 ballots came from unregistered voters, had envelopes that weren't signed properly, or came from people who hadn't requested ballots. • 5 ballots came after the November 17th deadline. • 19 overseas voters voted on two ballots and had both counted. All of these ballots violated Florida law, yet all were counted." Furthermore, in the summer of 1999, Katherine Harris paid $4 million to a company called Database Technologies to go through Florida's voter roles and remove anyone "suspected" of being a former felon. It appears that the company not only removed these felons from the roles, but also thousands of black citizens who had never committed a crime in their lives--eligible voters who were disenfranchised by the Florida government. (From Stupid White Men by Michael Moore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Torque Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 I am sorry InsaneSith i have reviwed my knolagable history and have realized that i have made a mistake Britain's American colonies broke with the mother country in 1776 and were recognized as the new nation of the United States of America following the Treaty of Paris in 1783. During the 19th and 20th centuries the government was declared a federal republic which is very stongly democratic this new government form sparked these historical things some where goodand some bad, 37 new states were added to the original 13 as the nation expanded across the North American continent and acquired a number of overseas possessions. The two most traumatic experiences in the nation's history were the Civil War (1861-65) and the Great Depression of the 1930s. Buoyed by victories in World Wars I and II and the end of the Cold War in 1991, the US remains the world's most powerful nation-state. The economy is marked by steady growth, low unemployment and inflation, and rapid advances in technology. So once again Insane i am very soory and you are right infact and the teddy rosevelt thing proved to be wrong i got my facts screwed up he has injured i think in the vietnam war and never went to Euorope after that point there disproving my statement Also Cjais i sent you a PM please read and respond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Originally posted by griff38 Since the 1rst rules and laws of this country were established, those in power have sought to change the laws & rules to consolidate their power and control. From the very first laws of man those in power have sought to consolidate their positions. So what's the news? That they succeeded. Holy mother... Scary. Originally posted by griff38 The leader of this country (no right to be called the president) Which is why I usually refer to him as el Presidenté (has anyone played Tropico?). first of all america is not a democracy. its a republic. we elect officials to make decisions for us. second i hate bush and all of his plans. thank you that is all. But Republic is, oficially, a way to implement democracy. Or at least it can be. Denmark, for example, is a monarchy and a democracy (or at least that's what we like to fancy ourselves...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 The problem here in the United States is not that the country is run by the rich and powerful so much as it is allowed to be run by them. Voting is one of the rights we have that are most taken for granted... both Republican and Democrat parties would just as soon keep it that way, too. The fewer "regular people" that get out and vote, the less likely there is to be "swing" elections where folks vote with their minds and hearts rather than their party. This is why voting *does* make a difference. Even if there is not an official you prefer, voting creates a situation where you HAVE TO BE COUNTED. In future elections, political parties will then have to take your demographic into consideration. If a most college-age adults (18-24) voted in the United States, our government would be significantly different. Issues would be significantly different. The election between Bush/Gore was far too close for anyone to say that Bush is an "unelected president." The best decision was made given the information available at the time, regardless of what exists now. Had the decision gone the other way, the arguments would be the same, only from different people who feel disenfranchised. For the record, I disagree with MOST of Bush's positions on most of the issues. I firmly believe that he is an alcoholic and far too condesending to be a leader. But I would also give him my highest loyalty were I too be called back into military service. Honor dictates it. My disagreement with him came about when he promised us (the voters in Texas) that he was interested in being the Governor and not in using the Governor's mansion as a stepping-stone to the Whitehouse. Clearly a lie since it was later revealed that a significant amount of his Governor campaign funding came from the California Republican Party... hmmm.... Skin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 There are not many of us around, but I am a Bush supporter.I have been from the get-go. On the account of votes being thrown out, well, things happen, it's not Bush's fault. I shudder to think what our country would have been like today if Gore won the election...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff38 Posted January 11, 2003 Author Share Posted January 11, 2003 Originally posted by SkinWalker The problem here in the United States is not that the country is run by the rich and powerful so much as it is allowed to be run by them. Well yes I must agree with that. We have no one to blame but ourselves. The record shows that the majority of US citizens are moderate to liberal. (all playing video games & going to movies) Yet the conservitive minority maintain power ( they go to church 2 or 3 times a week and are in bed by 10:00) Oh yes as far as Gore is concerned I don't think he would have been a better president (I voted for Nader) but at least he would have been the legal president. As a nation that prides itself on laws, we sure don't seem to mind ignoring law when its inconvienant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWhiteRaider Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Actually, USA is democracy. Democracy is when you vote for your leaders. Use your mind. *buzzer* A democracy is were the people rule them selves. The greek had that. A republic is where you elect leaders. Just like the romans had. America is a Republic. The problem here in the United States is not that the country is run by the rich and powerful so much as it is allowed to be run by them. Hey every goverment one way or another will end up like that just some faster than others. Yet the conservitive minority maintain power ( they go to church 2 or 3 times a week and are in bed by 10:00 Pinning stereo types? Not all are like that. And by the way I do not support Bush too much and yet I am a Republican. And what do you mean by the conservitive minority? More states voted for Bush than Gore. That is why we do not go by popular vote or else liberals would win all the time. It say "We the people" not "We the states of New Your, California, and Florida" And you I note that Liberals are the only ones I can think of that want to go with the popular vote. Also if you look at a county map only the counties with big citys vote for Liberals In fact Bush won 89% of the counties. As a nation that prides itself on laws, we sure don't seem to mind ignoring law when its inconvienant. And it was liberals that tried to bend the law during the election. They tried changeing the rules mid-election. C'jais thinks people should cut 'n paste some more on this forum *Whisper*Join the club*Whisper* By the way This IS HISTORY JUST LEAVE IT ALONE! If you stay on the past so much no wonder you do not win the elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 1. Even though I'd rather have neither Bush nor Gore elected,I'd have to say Gore would be better,just because Bush was so damn lazy and irresponsible. 2. He AWOLed out of the army for 4 months. He could've been to sent to jail for that.But did he? Nooo. He had his Daddy to help hin... 3. The Florida election. They clearly tried to get more republic votes there without being too suspicious. 4.The entire fact Gore had more votes than Bush,but Bush only one because he had relations in Florida. Oh,and obi, Bush did have an option. To back down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWhiteRaider Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Originally posted by Tyrion 1. Even though I'd rather have neither Bush nor Gore elected,I'd have to say Gore would be better,just because Bush was so damn lazy and irresponsible. 2. He AWOLed out of the army for 4 months. He could've been to sent to jail for that.But did he? Nooo. He had his Daddy to help hin... 3. The Florida election. They clearly tried to get more republic votes there without being too suspicious. 4.The entire fact Gore had more votes than Bush,but Bush only one because he had relations in Florida. Oh,and obi, Bush did have an option. To back down. 1. LAZY!? Have you seen the black sacs under his eyes? Clinton if anyone was lazy. 2. Clinton did drugs too so why do you not rag on him. 3 and 4. Both sides have many "questionable" votes. Both side tried to as many of the "questionable" votes so neither side is more innocent than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Originally posted by TheWhiteRaider 1. LAZY!? Have you seen the black sacs under his eyes? Clinton if anyone was lazy. 2. Clinton did drugs too so why do you not rag on him. 3 and 4. Both sides have many "questionable" votes. Both side tried to as many of the "questionable" votes so neither side is more innocent than the other. 1. What in the...? Clinton was one of the best presidents! He helped raise the economy by alot! He tried to make peace treaties with countries. Bush is not benefiting the homeland,instead, he is going to Iraq(or Iran,I forgot) only to get the oil and to finish what his dad started. We're just lucky he's disabling a nuclear theat at the same time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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