Sherack Nhar Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 *points to subject* I was wondering what you guys don't want to see in a story. Do clichés bother you, or can you live with them? Would you even favor something déja vu instead of something original? And what about stereotypes? Are you tired to always see the young and brash do-gooder as the hero of a story, accompanied by the usual strong but dumb Big Guy or old but wise magician? I want to know what you'd rather have instead That's an awful lot of questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eets Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 I want to see less evil minions. You see alot of things with like totally evil people that have a boss that is even eviler than him who has a boss that is even eviler than him. It seems like a never ending chain that pisses me off.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sad Shadow Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 i dont wanna see the good sidel win!! they always do it!! more blood, pain and chaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherack Nhar Posted January 26, 2003 Author Share Posted January 26, 2003 Originally posted by Eets I want to see less evil minions. You see alot of things with like totally evil people that have a boss that is even eviler than him who has a boss that is even eviler than him. It seems like a never ending chain that pisses me off.. That's a pretty good point I'm surprised, Eets! And DSS, you're right... Good guys win too often! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sad Shadow Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 thanx, we must beat the good ones!!! lets crush them!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherack Nhar Posted January 26, 2003 Author Share Posted January 26, 2003 The problem is that letting the bad guys win can only work in certain stories... and only if done right. If it's badly done, the reader will simply be left unsatisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue15 Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 i don't like to see unfamiliar 'how the hell do i pronounce this?!?!!!!' words that make no sense to me in a book, especially when used too often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eets Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Originally posted by Sherack Nhar That's a pretty good point I'm surprised, Eets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edlib Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Originally posted by Eets I want to see less evil minions. You see alot of things with like totally evil people that have a boss that is even eviler than him who has a boss that is even eviler than him. It seems like a never ending chain that pisses me off.. Agreed. The only example that I can think of where this REALLY worked was in "The Stand" by Stephen King. The evil characters were all really well developed and had really great back stories explaning how they got that way. Normally though, bad guys are just faithfully serving some evil master for no clearly defined purpose. Then there are those funny scenes in the first Austin Powers movie that shows the reactions of the friends and families of some of the evil minions after the good guys knock them off in the movie. That stuff is genius. Oh,.. and the Simpson's episode where Homer takes a job with a James Bond type supervillian. That episode is so funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Homer Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 weird enemies that are somehow immune to the special abilities of the hero(s) I dislike all of the stereotypes...good guys never do wrong, etc....which is why I like the Evil Dead Trilogy, Ash puts himself first throughout most of the series and what Eets said about the bad guys getting worse... I also hate when a book is based off of, let's say, a movie or series of movies and then goes and kills off one of the best characters. Anything with weird hairdo's or giant mechs....wait, no, that's what I hate in Anime... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eets Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Originally posted by edlib Normally though, bad guys are just faithfully serving some evil master for no clearly defined purpose. Yes! And the line of servants never ends! Like in WC3, there is a line of at least 5 demon lords that serve someone higher than them, and all of em are easily defeated.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zygomaticus Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Interesting questions, Sher (mind if I call you that?) Anyway, if you're willing to consider the VI's () opinion, here it is: I don't mind clichés at all. In fact I believe, as someone once wisely told me, a cliché is a cliché because it works and it makes a story better, usually. As for stereotypes. that's what I can't stand in a story, most of the time. Sometimes the gung-ho hero stories are good, like Road to Perdition and Indiana Jones, but most of the time, they get boring. And true, good guys win too often, but the good thing about it is, to me atleast, good guys winning makes me feel good. I can't help but dislike a story where the supposed good guy fails/dies. (which is why i didn't like 1984). Sometimes, good stories are those where there is no bad guy at all. Stories don't really need a living, candible, badguy. He/It/She can be an emotion, some spiritual thing or something like that, you get it, right? And about the originality part of your question, i certainly like to read a good original story/watch movie. Always, hero saves girl, hero kills bad guy is a bit too commonly used. But they're okay, as long as they have an original approach to it. For example, almost all James Bond movies have the hero saving the world from the clutches of some mad geneus, but each time it's for a different reason, in a different location, using different methods (both hero and badguy) etc. 'tis all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tie Guy Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 The problem with having the bad guys win is that if you often times the antagonist then becomes more of a protaganist than the protaganist, if that makes sense. The answer to that, for me at least, is to have major setbacks, loss, pain, defeat, etc. but then have the hero evetually overcome the trials and conquer evil. I mean, you just can't end a story with the evil guys winning, that would be depressing if there was nothing else after it. Also what i like to read (and write) is a hero that has flaws, real ones, not hubris. A hero that isn't some all powerful superman and destroys all evil in his path. And that kinda goes back to what i said above as well. I also like intelligent heroes, not just some shoot from the hip, guns blazing, get out'a my way hero. I like characters that can use strategy, cunning, and intellect, not just a quick draw or incredible strength, to defeat adversaries. To me thats much more realistic and interesting. This is actually kinda helpful, seeing as i'm attempting to write a novel right now, i'll try to take some of this into account. Interesting topic though, Sherack, why did you ask? just out of curiousity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherack Nhar Posted January 26, 2003 Author Share Posted January 26, 2003 Originally posted by Tie Guy This is actually kinda helpful, seeing as i'm attempting to write a novel right now, i'll try to take some of this into account. Interesting topic though, Sherack, why did you ask? just out of curiousity. I was just curious, I like polling people And I'm also trying to write a story (although I wouldn't call it a novel, it's never going to get as big as yours apparently). Example of a bad ending where villains win: Carnosaur. Although the entire movie was bad too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tie Guy Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Originally posted by Sherack Nhar And I'm also trying to write a story (although I wouldn't call it a novel, it's never going to get as big as yours apparently). Well, i'm calling it a novel because that sounds better. I'm not quite sure how long its going to be. I'm really just going to write until i'm finished. I actually have the basic story line to write 3 "novels" but we'll see if i ever actually get that far.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Good guys always hit, bad guys always miss. Hero does all the work. Day is saved when some counter is at 00:01. Bad guys winning often turns out as clichés. It was done well in ESB, though.. Anything that's not original. I mean, there is no such thing as an original fantasy story: Everything is ripped off from Tolkien (Elves, Dwarves, etc.). It's easy to come up with your own fantasy creatures! No stupid moral thing at the end!! Pokémon not only tries to fight racism in a bad way, it also does a poor job at doing it a bad way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fergie Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle Anything that's not original. I mean, there is no such thing as an original fantasy story: Everything is ripped off from Tolkien (Elves, Dwarves, etc.). It's easy to come up with your own fantasy creatures! No stupid moral thing at the end!! Pokémon not only tries to fight racism in a bad way, it also does a poor job at doing it a bad way. [/b] Beowolf is not a ripoff from Tolkien :note: only wriiten b/c it did not clarify good or bad and also note that I have not read BW or really intend to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artoo Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 That's cause Beowulf was written pre-Rennaisance. Very scary novel. Anyway what I want to not see in a story, is no humor. There has to be a way to incorporate humor in a story that is readily available. There are always times for serious moments, but you cannot have things be to serious all the time. Even if the humor is simpole dramatic irony. Also foils are funny when they bounce of each other in a literary work. Also things I don't like reading are among the few. Non-humor is one of them. Badly done romance is another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Odin Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 1984 was well done, had the bad guys win in the end. ------------------ Tolkien took his creatures from Norse Mythology, and others. Then modified them. Hell even the Evlish language bear a striking resemblance to the Elder Futhark. -------------------- What I don't want to see: The hero knocking people out with a single punch, then fitting for 15 minutes with the evil boss. The classic: Good Guy looses in the begining, gets a second wind and wins. This is really overdone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Groovy Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Heroes with costumes made of black rubber, leather, latex, whatever, it's always black black black. I really liked X-Men, but the costumes were so damn cliche. The costume designer on that movie should have been fired. The dark hero fad is dead. Thank God Spiderman stayed true to the comics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fergie Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Originally posted by Admiral Tolkien took his creatures from Norse Mythology, and others. Then modified them. Hell even the Evlish language bear a striking resemblance to the Elder Futhark. I'll say modified them before him Elves were like lepricauns (how ever you spell it), You know like small palm sized Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eets Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Originally posted by Darth Groovy Heroes with costumes made of black rubber, leather, latex, whatever, it's always black black black. I really liked X-Men, but the costumes were so damn cliche. The costume designer on that movie should have been fired. The dark hero fad is dead. Thank God Spiderman stayed true to the comics! Ew... I'd rather black leather over seeing Logan and Scott in yellow and blue spandex... Although, it wouldn't be so bad on Jean, Rogue, and Ororo.. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zygomaticus Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Black (darker color) is just the symbolic color of toughness, experience and power In the starwars series, Luke Skywalker starts our wearing white in EpIV, then wears brown (red) in EpV, and black in EpVI. Whereas Vader and the emperor are always wearing black In other words, i see it as a clue into the level of bad-arseness of the character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clefo Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 good grammar and speeeling is a must I don't like Cliches meeself, I'm a very picky reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Groovy Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Originally posted by Eets Ew... I'd rather black leather over seeing Logan and Scott in yellow and blue spandex... Although, it wouldn't be so bad on Jean, Rogue, and Ororo.. ^_^ Doesn't have to be spandex, just something other than black leather, that's like so 1990. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.