bucket-o'-mudd Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Here are my reasons why: 1) Main reason above all: graphic adventures are also known as 'point 'n' click' games. At the time of SMI when there weren't many other genres of games that the player would control with the mouse, this was what separated them from action-type games 2) An off-shoot of (1) really: Now that Tom, Dick and Harry have their Quake, Counterstrike, GTA etc. the graphic adventure is the endangered speicies of games. Adopting a keyboard control method not only makes it more actioney but hard to control walking, as every single review of Grim Fandango and Escape.. will tell you 3) After having a go with the demo of CMI and seeing artwork of the CMI Guybrush - not a game screenshot - I felt I could really relate to this character much like any Disney one. I don't feel a personification of the EMI Guybrush despite the fact he looks more appropriately shaped. To me he nearly looks like some shaded polygons 4) Keyboard controls (again) limit the scope of the puzzles. For instance it is less practical to do 'against the clock' puzzles such as distracting the catapult firer in EMI than it would be with a mouse My opinions aren't set in stone. Now that I think about it, if fluent realtime 3D graphics would become as good as those used on Monsters' Inc, Shrek or Ice Age then a 3D Monkey would be the way foward, and I did think it was implemented well in GF despite its primitive stage I'm just saying, now in the current state of graphics. A 2D Monkey Island, viz. CMI would feel and play like an interactive Disney-like animation. A 3D one wouldn't Please feel free to disagree with me and give your opinions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannar85 Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 GRIME? That's the game system, not the graphics Anyway, I vote for CMI graphics in better quality. I've seen a few snips from Bill Tiller a few months ago, where he was trying out a new style (better than CMI!), and it looked beautifully. I'd say that Lucasarts should do MI5 in 2D, and hire Bill Tiller to do the new amazing style! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrik Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 To be honest, the style in this very forum's banner would look great in another MI game. Not exactly of course, because it *is* a picture, but the general realistic tone of it works very well in my opinion. I'm not sure how it'd be done though. I guess they could use either SCUMM or GRIME for the backgrounds, but I'm not sure about the actual characters. I'd assume that with today's standards models could be created and skinned like the characters in the banner. I doubt LucasArts/Film/whatever they are now would go to that much trouble though. Of course there is using the old completely hand-drawn style, but I don't think that offers enough freedom for the designers. CMI looked a little "robot-like" because every frame of the character's animation had to be drawn, while with 3D it can all move realistically. It also saves them time to use 3D, so the chances of them reverting to old-fasioned animation is very slim I think. And that's enough blabber from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remi Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Dan Lee for MI5, man. Even Tiller said he was good enough for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I agree, the image captures the MI1/2 piratey atmosphere perfectly, something that was sorely lacking from EMI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Head Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 something that was sorely lacking from EMI. It felt too plastic. The title bar has heaps of ambience and warmth fairly oozing out of it. I love all of his work, and I have one of his pictures as my background (the arctic shipwreck), he just seems to have an unbelievable talent for conveying the feeling of a particular scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamNMax Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 THE FUTURE IS NOW!!!! *****3d***** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannar85 Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Originally posted by SamNMax THE FUTURE IS NOW!!!! *****3d***** Bah, it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicardoLuigi... Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 yeah, they really shouldn't make it in 3d again, or at least not that kind of 3d where its all choppy, as i've said many times before. you know what'd be neat(like i say all the time)? is if they could make the whole game in the kind of artwork used in the banner of this forum. like realistic art, but where you can actually move your character, but he looks really real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrik Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Originally posted by Thrik To be honest, the style in this very forum's banner would look great in another MI game. Not exactly of course, because it *is* a picture, but the general realistic tone of it works very well in my opinion. I'm not sure how it'd be done though. I guess they could use either SCUMM or GRIME for the backgrounds, but I'm not sure about the actual characters. I'd assume that with today's standards models could be created and skinned like the characters in the banner. I doubt LucasArts/Film/whatever they are now would go to that much trouble though. Did you miss this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nioe Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Hey everybody wot up? I woz just wonderin if I woz alone in thinking dat the graphics of CMI suited the franchise a lot better den de graphics of EMI. Im all for progression in games and I thought dat Grim Fandango woz stunning but dere woz something about the 3D graphics in EMI that made me feel almost disconnected from the game! Call me weird but if there is a fifth game I hope its in the cartoonish 2D style of CMI. Wot does ne1 else think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicardoLuigi... Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 this kinda belongs in the future of mi one(it's in the general one right now) but anyway, yeah i agree. the style of mi5 should be in cmi style. or (now i actually know what this is) cel shading (like in legend of zelda:the wind waker) would also be nice. the 3d style in emi sucked really bad, and i didn't feel into the game at all when i was playing it. it felt like you were literally controlling a robot, unlike the other games where it felt like you were a person. honestly, if they made mi5 the same as emi, i would cry, but i would buy it. i would keep it as a collector's thing to complete my set, but i wouldn't play it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 i see no reason in buying a game just to have it. i'd play mine however it turned out. efmi was full of plotholes and crap, but it was still good in comparison with other point 'n' click adventures (excluding lucasarts, most of there point 'n' click are brilliant). and yess, i would prefere a 2D MI5 but as i've said in countless threads almost identical to this one (why whenever i come to the futrure of monkey island, i get this strage sense of Deja Vu?) lucasrarts aren't going to do it in 2D style because 3D sells tio a wider audiece than 2D would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mullog Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 If we get rid of that smartass guy over at lucasarts who thinks that all games should be made for atleast 4 consoles we might get a monkey5 in scurvy 2d with mousesupport. Who knows? Escape from monkey island would have been twice as good if they had limited it too PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 well now that's another thing, they'd have to make it available to four consoles so they sell moreas they'd have a wider audience that way (and no compatability problems or installation or slow processor problems). these games cost a lot of money to make and this money needs to eb made back plus more with the sales. the fan base alone wouldn't do this so they need to appeal to a wider audience. i'm trying really hard here not to make lucasarts out to be the bad industrialists here as most companies are the same (alhtough the wirters and actualy developers of the game may be out to create a good game, but must lie within these bounderies). sorry, but that's how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scabb Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by Mullog If we get rid of that smartass guy over at lucasarts who thinks that all games should be made for atleast 4 consoles we might get a monkey5 in scurvy 2d with mousesupport. Who knows? Escape from monkey island would have been twice as good if they had limited it too PC. I'm tired of people blaming the interface, when quite clearly it was the lack of decent piratey story, the crappy locations, the boring puzzles that were either easy or confusing, and worst of all, the repetition. Eg Find the hat from the boulder by talking to the parrots 2.1 billion times, navigate the swamp (fun!), Monkey fecking Kombat.. even the diving part could have been improved, so you only had to imitate and beat Marco once. 3D did not ruin it. You can't say that until after you've played Grim Fandango. Would EMI really be that much better if you "clicked" to move Guybrush? And as for the console versions, well it's a double-edged blade, because it could a) Bring money to the Adventure game industry, which could in turn lead to b) Make it more friendly! Add a few more action sequences, and before you know it, WHAM! Tomb Raider clone. I've blizz blazzed enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mullog Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Originally posted by scabb I'm tired of people blaming the interface, when quite clearly it was the lack of decent piratey story, the crappy locations, the boring puzzles that were either easy or confusing, and worst of all, the repetition. Eg Find the hat from the boulder by talking to the parrots 2.1 billion times, navigate the swamp (fun!), Monkey fecking Kombat.. even the diving part could have been improved, so you only had to imitate and beat Marco once. 3D did not ruin it. You can't say that until after you've played Grim Fandango. Would EMI really be that much better if you "clicked" to move Guybrush? And as for the console versions, well it's a double-edged blade, because it could a) Bring money to the Adventure game industry, which could in turn lead to b) Make it more friendly! Add a few more action sequences, and before you know it, WHAM! Tomb Raider clone. I've blizz blazzed enough. Yeah. EMI would have been much better if you clicked to move guybrush. I'm not blaming the lacks of the game totally on the interface but this thread was about the graphics and that's why I talk about the GrApHiCs! Makes sence to you? Allthough, I cant say that the puzzles were so much worse than in previouce titles but the story was rather confusing, yes. And the main issue about the graphics is that in CMI evrything was made so great and it all looked so Monkey Island- and cartoon- alike. In EMI the whole Monkey Island mood is lost a bit because of the "deadness" "and actiongamealikeness" of the characters. <Refers to when Guybrush sticks the rubberthing on to the cactus>. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scabb Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Originally posted by Mullog If we get rid of that smartass guy over at lucasarts who thinks that all games should be made for atleast 4 consoles we might get a monkey5 in scurvy 2d with mousesupport. Who knows? Escape from monkey island would have been twice as good if they had limited it too PC. Plus, the graphics were actually slightly better on the PS2 version (I think). It would have been the same with or without a PS2 conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 To Scabb yes, the story and puzzels weren't up to monkey island standards and in 2D or point 'n' click, it wouldn't have made the story much better (although it it may have as less work would have gone into the graphics and engine and maybe more into the story and puzzels) but frankly what we're saying here is that we want monkey isl;and to be point n click and 2D. yes, we want a good story amnd good puzzels, but that's not what this thread is about, 2D and point 'n' click would have made the game that muich better, but we're not talking about the story. to everyone else the PlayStation actually had point n click games on them in the past (i'm thinking of discworld and discworld II) where you basically move the pointer around with the arrow keys and so on. but i dont think this would be appealing anymroe, not when the general gaming public want full control over the chracter and bounderies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mullog Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Originally posted by scabb Plus, the graphics were actually slightly better on the PS2 version (I think). It would have been the same with or without a PS2 conversion. No. If the game hadn't been made for PS2 they wouldn't have had to catch up with the release date on PS2 or spending large amount of time with the converision to that console and holding general agreements with Sony. They could have put more work on it and the story, puzzles, jokes, 3d models etc. wouldn't have been so fastly put together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scabb Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Originally posted by Mullog No. If the game hadn't been made for PS2 they wouldn't have had to catch up with the release date on PS2 or spending large amount of time with the converision to that console and holding general agreements with Sony. They could have put more work on it and the story, puzzles, jokes, 3d models etc. wouldn't have been so fastly put together. They spent as much time as was needed on the game. It was hardly rushed - they found time to improve the 3D models during the PS2 conversion, and there really is no point in rushing an adventure game. However, If this was the case, then the console release is still not to blame. Yes, the engine clearly needs work, as Guybrush is tough to handle at first, but you can get the hang of it pretty easily. Besides, the fact is that the interface and engine were both derivative of an existing engine for a PC Only game - namely Grim Fandango. I completely agree that the models were poor, but although not as luscious as the sprawling CMI towns, the backgrounds were still fairly terrific and didn't look rushed at all. Allow me to repeat myself one last time. Pointing and Clicking would not have made a significant difference. Graphics aren't everything. The console release was not the reason that the game was so bad. Try Blaming something else now, k thx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nioe Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 No graphics aren't everything but they are the most important thing in this instince. Adventure games are meant to draw you into the game and make you feel apart of it, graphics play a huge role in this , I mean look at Discworld Noir its storyline was a bit repetitive and some of the characters were frustrating but the dark sombre graphics suited the game and created an atmosphere that I believed captured the film noir essence better then GF there by making up for many of its inadequaties. Yes EMI had other problems bar graphics but the graphics are at the foundation of a game and if you have flawed graphics then the game itself will be flawed before any puzzles etc are put in place. By having flawed graphics that did not suit the game the developers committed the cardinal sin of adventure gaming; they made the player disconnected from the game. Unforgivable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 not entirely true. MI1 was brilliant without magnifiscent graphics and so was mi2. it's really how bthe story and graphics work together perfectly that make a good game, but i would have to concure that it is the story that makes the game unless you basicaly want one of those shoot em ups with no story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mullog Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 It's not about the graphics beeing in a great resolution or not pixly and so on, Neil. It's the style of them, how they suit the game. Nothing bad about the background graphics in EMI, they were great, but the characters were too lifeless and actiongamealike, as said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRI5 Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 I think they should make it in 3d again. Its the way they are all going (Full Throttle 2 etc). the backgrounds in EMI were amazing. The characters need a little work tho. Plus it should definalty be point and click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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