Sithxace Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 i think that this game would have a better name for itself if it was anounced as a expansion pack, but as a individual game, it's too much like the original. Im a huge starwars fan and game fan and im still buying this game and like it but i dont think this game is gonna be a huge smash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarteX Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Im not too convinced either. I saw the promo "trailer" from E3 and it looks like its going to be circle strafing and hack'n'slash once again. But I believe Raven will suprise us, because they've barely revealed anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 I don't think that JA will be on any major magazines top-10 list, or GOTY for action. There are too many others out there - HL2, DOOMIII, Deus Ex - that are 'revolutionary', when JA is 'evolutionary'. That said, JKII was a very solid game - rated ~90%, close to MoHAA and better than most other FPS other than Deus Ex and HL. Again, even JKII was not really revolutionary - MP was nothing really new (except duel, perhaps), and SP was well done, perhaps the excellent saber system could be considered revolutionary, but I see it as a fantastic realization of a fundamental desire to slice stormtroopers I think that if they had come out with a small Expansion pack (remember, MOH:Spearhead's SP was ~3 hours) in ~January it would have been a big splash. But they are doing something more - character building, all-new sabers and styles, new plots and players, SP game as big as JO (which was the biggest I've played since Deus Ex, perhaps since JK!), and revamped MP with additional game-modes. So - I'm not disappointed, and I think when 2003 ends, JA will top my list of the years' faves, and probably my all-time fave as well. But I think I'll be in the minority - I think most will have JA in their top 5 action games, but not much more than that. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 I personally don't much care if it's a hit or not, as long as it's good, which I hope it will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 It may not be a 'huge smash' as you put it...probably not in the same league as the hotly anticipated Half-Life 2, Doom 3 etc., but then I don't think it really has to be. The series is obviously successful, or they would not keep making the games. Just looking at these forums, you can see that the community behind the game is quite large, even with all of the problems that dogged Jedi Outcast. In my view, they don't have to try and make it 'the best game out there', or aim for GOTY, even though that would be a nice achievement. They have got the mix of ingredients almost just right in this series, and I'd hate to see them change those ingredients too much. As I've said before, the gameplay is solid and entertaining, the play time is a decent length, the gameplay mechanics work. There are not very many ways you can alter something like saber combat, for example. A new engine would be nice, but on the whole, not essential, and in fact would probably alienate some of those gamers on lower end rigs who still want to play this series of games. These games are like the bread-and-butter, with good sales and a good fan base. Anyway, what they are trying with JA does sound more radical than a lot of other FPS games out there at the moment (in terms of the tiered mission choices at least), and if they can pull it off (and I'm pretty certain they will), it could be a new model for other SPs in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 ... and what's wrong with just being a really good playing game? Unreal II was 'revolutionary', and hyped pretty well, but was just mediocre (at best). JO was widely considered an excellent game with some flaws. We have seen the cool features of HL2 and Doom3, but already know some of their compromises (and there *will* be more, of that I'm sure), and we assume that Deus Ex will be revolutionary, but I tend to think it will be a cool playing game with great graphics. (BTW - nothing wrong with that! I hope it rocks!) So what is wrong with JA being a really fun game, with improved sabers, improved graphics, improved multiplayer, and hopefully a really fun plot? I'm starting to see Elite Force II reviews - and they seem to be saying ... a relly cool game with some flaws, with mid-upper 80's ratings (based on 2 ) Is that a bad thing? In a gaming world filled with so much 60%-level crap, being a ~85-90% rated game across 4 games in a series, now possibly 5 ... not too bad. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 I don't really care if it is "revolutionary". I don't really care whether or not it adds a bunch of features I've never seen before. As long as the game is fun, I'll be happy. Even if it turns out to be a tweeked JO (but it looks like much more than that), I'll be happy, because I loved most of the elements in JO. The Enter the Matrix game is revolutionary in some respects (integration into the movie, motion capture by original stunt team), but from what I've heard, it is quite plain. Give me a fun game with familiar features any day. If it is indeed a fun game, I think the fact that it is Star Wars will have it end up on some magazines top 10 lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Prime The Enter the Matrix game is revolutionary in some respects (integration into the movie, motion capture by original stunt team), but from what I've heard, it is quite plain. Give me a fun game with familiar features any day. If it is indeed a fun game, I think the fact that it is Star Wars will have it end up on some magazines top 10 lists. Actually, the reviews put the 'Enter the Matrix' game as pure sh*t. It has sold loads based on hype ... it is just amazing that it keeps selling. I agree - having a 'bankable' name doesn't hurt a game get attention. But if the game doesn't live up to the name it gets even more roundly thrashed. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 JO would never have gotten half the scores it got if it hadn't been Star Wars based and a sequel to JK. I did see a few 4/10 and 5/10 reviews out there that were a lot more objective than the 94% Best Game Ever???!? PC Gamer Reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by toms JO would never have gotten half the scores it got if it hadn't been Star Wars based and a sequel to JK. I did see a few 4/10 and 5/10 reviews out there that were a lot more objective than the 94% Best Game Ever???!? PC Gamer Reviews. So bad reviews for JO make you 'objective' and a good review means you're blinded by 'Lucas-vision'? I just don't see it. If that were the case, Enter the Matrix would be getting good reviews. I looked at reviews a while ago, and 75% of the reviews were between 86% and 94%. And there are like 150 reviews. I know that reviews aren't an absolute indicator - previews are about the worst thing to go by - but they are fairly indicative. Most reviews called the SP experience 'excellent' with flaws being mainly the slow start, and the MP being more or less standard fare, with the sabers and force powers giving an interesting twist. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallen[fk] Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Gamezone - 7.8 on a scale of 10 Gamespy - 76 on a 100 pt scale IGN - 7.2 on a scale of 10 And I can't find my old PCGamer with the review in it, and pcgamer.com doesn't have it archived, but I'm pretty damn sure it wasn't 90%. JO was a fun game, but by no means was it ever going to be in contention for any game of the year voting, especially with the patch fiasco. In response to the first post of this thread, Jedi Academy was supposed to be an expansion pack, but raven had "so much fun creating it" that they decided to make it a stand-alone game, much like many companies are doing these days. I mean, why make it just an expansion pack that will only sell for 25 bucks when they can make it a full game that sells for 45+ ???? It's all about the money these days. When I heard they were making this game I was quite disappointed. It should be just an expansion. But them pounding a whole game out just barely a year after JO was released tells me they're just trying to cash in on the game's popularity with the Star Wars fanbase. I mean it took what 6 years between JK1 and JO? Especially with the sweet new engines being developed and licensed now, why do they have to push us out another quake3 based game? I can't wait till next summer, we'll finally have a REAL FPS for star wars again with the sweet assed Unreal Warfare engine. If you don't know what I'm talking about go check out the LucasArts site and click on Republic Commando. Makes me wish Raven had just made this an expansion and would wait till they're done QuakeIV to put out another full game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Blackrose Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 With games like Doom III and Half-Life 2 on the horizon, I almost 100% guarantee that JA is going to go on the back burner immediately upon their release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler_Durden Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 You know what? Who cares how much this game sells or how much better it will be and what possible rating it will get? I know for one that it WILL in fact be a better game with a lot more playing time and innovation in terms of nonlinearity as well as customization. Do i give a rats ass what someone elses inept opinion on the game will be? Nope. I've made up my mind, i've played JO, and i know this game will be awesome. Take my fifty bucks now. This conversation is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertogJan Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Haha well yes, where can in fundamentally go wrong (sp?), cause Raven has experience with another JK game, which was great!! So it will be good at least, probably really really good! Of course there can be problems with balancing etc. but at least the SinglePlayer is going to be loads of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockstar Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 i agree that the single player mode cannot really go too far wrong. JO, SOF2 and other games by raven have had great SP modes . i can't see how bad they can go? however i am not fully confident about the mp mode, as with all the new sabers and force powers. it could go one of 2 ways. A) they blow it by just chucking stuff in to make it "cool" at the expense of imbalance and other things B) they use the new features to correct any imbalances and create a very good all round solid mp mode I hope (B) !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by Mr.Joshua Gamezone - 7.8 on a scale of 10 Gamespy - 76 on a 100 pt scale IGN - 7.2 on a scale of 10 And I can't find my old PCGamer with the review in it, and pcgamer.com doesn't have it archived, but I'm pretty damn sure it wasn't 90%. JO was a fun game, but by no means was it ever going to be in contention for any game of the year voting, especially with the patch fiasco. Excuse me, but did you pull these numbers from a**hole #5 or just make them up to support your opinion?!?! I checked out all of your 'facts' ... they were all wrong. GameZone was 96%, GameSpy was 86%, IGN was 90%, PC Gamer UK was 94%, PC Gamer US was 91%. So actually JKII *was* in the high ranks of games last year, but MoHAA was a critical darling and reviewers were still in the afterglow of NOLF2 (both excellent games, but MOHAA's shortness was a real issue for me) In response to the first post of this thread, Jedi Academy was supposed to be an expansion pack, but raven had "so much fun creating it" that they decided to make it a stand-alone game, much like many companies are doing these days. I mean, why make it just an expansion pack that will only sell for 25 bucks when they can make it a full game that sells for 45+ ???? Do you have a source for that quote? Or that info? I know we heard rumors aboutt an expansion, but I never saw anything official. It's all about the money these days. When I heard they were making this game I was quite disappointed. It should be just an expansion. But them pounding a whole game out just barely a year after JO was released tells me they're just trying to cash in on the game's popularity with the Star Wars fanbase. I mean it took what 6 years between JK1 and JO? Especially with the sweet new engines being developed and licensed now, why do they have to push us out another quake3 based game? I can't wait till next summer, we'll finally have a REAL FPS for star wars again with the sweet assed Unreal Warfare engine. If you don't know what I'm talking about go check out the LucasArts site and click on Republic Commando. It is ~1.5 years between JO and JA, about the same as between JK and MotS. But JA is much more a full game, IMO. But there is truth in your point - would MotS be released as an expansion today or a full game? MOH Spearhead sold for ~$35 as a 3-hour SP expansion! Makes me wish Raven had just made this an expansion and would wait till they're done QuakeIV to put out another full game. See I want all of the above. I think JA is well timed, and will be very satisfying. I also see its' MP and general press being overshadowed by HL2 et al. I am also looking forward to RepCom, but that is not a Jedi Saber game, so it will truly be just another pretty FPS. And I hope that another Jedi Knight game comes out on the new engines - Unreal Warfare is the most available, and games are just going to ship this fall with that. A word of advice - don't play facts games with a phycisict / statistician Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by HertogJan Haha well yes, where can in fundamentally go wrong (sp?), cause Raven has experience with another JK game, which was great!! So it will be good at least, probably really really good! Of course there can be problems with balancing etc. but at least the SinglePlayer is going to be loads of fun. Exactly my point! It seems some people got themselves so bothered about MP issues that they have decided that SP must have sucked. Look - I'll not deny that JO's MP didn't take over the 'net, and that there were several issues, some self-inflicted by Raven/LEC, some self-inflicted by the community (i.e. US). I have no idea how JA MP will do, but I'm pretty sure that the SP will be solid, fun and longer than just about anything else (EFII, supposedly so much longer than EFI, clocks in ~12 hrs I've heard). Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclaimer Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 They said that Star Wars Rebel Strike won best off E3 someone conferm that please than I can tell more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by Reclaimer They said that Star Wars Rebel Strike won best off E3 someone conferm that please than I can tell more. Um ... yes ... here's from the official site: "Rebel Strike Wins Best of E3 Award! Star Wars Rogue Squadron®III: Rebel Strike™ has received GameSpy's award for Best of E3 2003 GameCube Game of Show. "Rebel Strike slew gamers where they stood with its breathtaking visuals, sweet action gameplay and legendary soundtrack." Read on at GameSpy.com." (link is http://www.gamespy.com/e32003/awards/index9.shtml ) This looks cool - it may make me get a 'Cube But what does this have to do with Jedi Academy? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by Mr.Joshua And I can't find my old PCGamer with the review in it, and pcgamer.com doesn't have it archived, but I'm pretty damn sure it wasn't 90%. JO was a fun game, but by no means was it ever going to be in contention for any game of the year voting, especially with the patch fiasco. As Mike said, "What are you talking about?" There were tons of glowing reviews, and it was under consideration for game of the year in some publications. To say that the game was a big success is an understatement. Originally posted by Mr.Joshua In response to the first post of this thread, Jedi Academy was supposed to be an expansion pack I mean, why make it just an expansion pack that will only sell for 25 bucks when they can make it a full game that sells for 45+ ???? It's all about the money these days. I don't remember that it was ever going to be an expansion pack. There was discussion around here that it might be, but that was because it was coming out a year and a half after JO. I believe that one of the developers came here and said it was never going to be an expansion. Does anyone have something that says one way or another? Why make an expansion where you can only charge $25 and so are quite limited in what improvements you can make budget-wise, when you can make a full game with lots of great improvements because you can charge $45? I say give me tons of cool new features and improvements, and charge me extra. Those improvements are well worth the difference in price to me. Sure, Raven and Co. want to make money off these games. So what? Is that evil? They are providing kick-ass games with lots of features that people want. They are providing a product, and if you are unhappy with it, you can choose not to buy it. Really, everyone wins. Originally posted by Mr.Joshua When I heard they were making this game I was quite disappointed. It should be just an expansion. Why should it just be an expansion? There are far too many features and upgrades to fit into a simple expansion pack. Originally posted by Mr.Joshua But them pounding a whole game out just barely a year after JO was released tells me they're just trying to cash in on the game's popularity with the Star Wars fanbase. Again, so what? They are providing what people want. What is so evil? If people didn't want all these games, no one would buy them. But people do want them, and they are buying them. It's not some big conspiracy. Originally posted by Mr.Joshua I mean it took what 6 years between JK1 and JO? And so what if it comes out a year and a half after JO? How long do they have to wait until it is OK for them to make another full game? 6 years, because that was the time between JK and JO? Originally posted by Mr.Joshua Especially with the sweet new engines being developed and licensed now, why do they have to push us out another quake3 based game? I can't wait till next summer, we'll finally have a REAL FPS for star wars again with the sweet assed Unreal Warfare engine. If you don't know what I'm talking about go check out the LucasArts site and click on Republic Commando. A new engine does not mean the game will be good (although this one should be). When do you think the first game using the Doom III (after Doom III, of course) engine will be out? Why do they have to wait for new engines to make a new game? Originally posted by Mr.Joshua Makes me wish Raven had just made this an expansion and would wait till they're done QuakeIV to put out another full game. If it was an expansion, you'd be getting so much less, content wise. They haven't even announced the release date for Quake IV yet. It will be a while after that for the engine to be licensed out, the development house learns how to use it, then develop a new game. Unlike you, I am not keen on waiting 3 or 4 years between Star Wars games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by Prime Sure, Raven and Co. want to make money off these games. So what? Is that evil? They are providing kick-ass games with lots of features that people want. They are providing a product, and if you are unhappy with it, you can choose not to buy it. Really, everyone wins. <snip> Again, so what? They are providing what people want. What is so evil? If people didn't want all these games, no one would buy them. But people do want them, and they are buying them. It's not some big conspiracy. I am thinking a lot of this comes from a generation of kids growing up not paying out of their pockets for music - thinking that downloading movies and MP3's (and games) is some type of entitlement, and that copyright law, and anything that points to companies trying to make money or protect their property is inherently evil. I also see a lot of 'Star Wars Syndrome', which is a cynical view of anything Star Wars as just a marketing draw to line someone's pockets. I like Star Wars, and Star Wars games. But I'm not anyone's lackey. I didn't buy Gallactic Battlegrounds (and won't) as I'm not into RTS. Same for Galaxies. Or any of the flyer games. I like shooters, and FPSaber games even more And Raven has delivered one to satisfy, and the promise of another excellent entry with enough to truly stand on its' own. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 of course people who disagree with me are wrong... that should be obvious... im still baffled by all the 90%s it got... i like this review, as it makes most of my points... i just got a cube on monday... almost entirely for Zelda though... but i must say that Rebel Strike does look amazing (especially the speeder chase), but the gameplay rarely lives up to the visuals in Factor 5 games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by toms i just got a cube on monday... almost entirely for Zelda though... but i must say that Rebel Strike does look amazing (especially the speeder chase), but the gameplay rarely lives up to the visuals in Factor 5 games... I've never played a Factor 5 game ... but watching the promo spots for Rebel Strike makes me want a Cube ... even though i don't have any desire for a console (I have small kids ... and I like them to have a good mix of fun and educational games - they're obsessive enough about the Harry Potter games ) I'm glad you found one objective, right-minded reviewer! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallen[fk] Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Originally posted by txa1265 Excuse me, but did you pull these numbers from a**hole #5 or just make them up to support your opinion?!?! I checked out all of your 'facts' ... they were all wrong. GameZone was 96%, GameSpy was 86%, IGN was 90%, PC Gamer UK was 94%, PC Gamer US was 91%. So actually JKII *was* in the high ranks of games last year, but MoHAA was a critical darling and reviewers were still in the afterglow of NOLF2 (both excellent games, but MOHAA's shortness was a real issue for me) Do you have a source for that quote? Or that info? I know we heard rumors aboutt an expansion, but I never saw anything official. It is ~1.5 years between JO and JA, about the same as between JK and MotS. But JA is much more a full game, IMO. But there is truth in your point - would MotS be released as an expansion today or a full game? MOH Spearhead sold for ~$35 as a 3-hour SP expansion! See I want all of the above. I think JA is well timed, and will be very satisfying. I also see its' MP and general press being overshadowed by HL2 et al. I am also looking forward to RepCom, but that is not a Jedi Saber game, so it will truly be just another pretty FPS. And I hope that another Jedi Knight game comes out on the new engines - Unreal Warfare is the most available, and games are just going to ship this fall with that. A word of advice - don't play facts games with a phycisict / statistician Mike Gamezone Review of Jedi Knight 2 - Rating 7.8 http://gamecube.gamezone.com/gzreviews/r18815.htm Gamespy Review of Jedi Knight 2 - Rating 76 http://www.gamespy.com/reviews/december02/jk2gcn/ IGN Review of Jedi Knight 2 - Rating 7.2 http://cube.ign.com/articles/377/377863p3.html?fromint=1 Who's the liar? Post proof newbie. Here's mine. So shut yer hole. And as far as my confirmation about it originally being an expansion, that came from LucasArts/Raven themselves at E3 which I attended, go download a transcript of the event if you feel the need to question my credibility again, as I've clearly proved that you're an egotistical assclown. JK2 recieved AVERAGE marks PERIOD. E-mail PCGamer and everyone else in the industry, WHICH I'M IN!, if you don't believe me. Otherwise, continue making an idiot of yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallen[fk] Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 And Prime, you obviously failed to comprehend my words. IT WAS INTENDED ORIGINALLY TO BE AN EXPANSION PACK. When Raven started tinkering around with it they realized it'd be better to just make a whole new game. And it was NOT considered for GOTY by the top award givers. PCGamer March 2003 Game of the Year Awards Issue GOTY - BF1942 (JK2 not nominated) Best MP Game - BF1942 (JK2 not nominated) Best Action Game - MOH:Allied Assault (JK2 not nominated) Best RP Game - NWN (of course, JK2 not nominated) Best RTS Game - WC3 (of course, ....) Etc, etc... JK2 wasn't even given honorable mentions in any award category. The only mention PCGamer gave it was in "the best and the worst" section. In "The Best" PCGamer says, "Lightsaber-battling side-by-side with Luke Skywalker". In "The Worst" PCGamer says, "Slogging through JK2's first few missions -- lots of puzzles, no Force powers, no fun." And that's it. Now if this game was as aclaimed as you all CLAIM it to be with reviews done by children then why is it the #1 Selling Gaming Magazine only mentions it in passing on their best/worst section of their awards issue? This magazine is regarded as THE voice of reason and knowledge in the gaming world. The fact is this. The game had great potential, but the patches and the bitching and whining from fanboys ruined it. Jedi Academy was supposed to be an expansion but Raven decided to make it a full game after tinkering around with the initial concept design, don't believe me, e-mail ken hoekstra. And finally, the comments tossed my way after my first post causing hostilities are the reason this community is crap alongside the fanboy rpg nerds that would rather sit in a server (litterally) than play the game the way it was intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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