twifkak Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Editorial here (it's short) Especially notable are the screenshot of people dancing, and the last sentence. It's not really anything special, but I do find it odd that it takes a fringe of a fringe of society to find people who are socially accepting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingzjester Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 This 'surfer dude' editorial writer for my school paper entitled an editorial 'Gay Marriage is Ok' and then - thinking he commands the same satirical faculties as Jonathan Swift - proceeded to compare gay marriage to government-regulated bestiality. Of course, he mentioned god a couple of times and the Bible and such assorted crap. It is people like this who make me want to carry through with that big piece I've been brooding over: 'Destruction of the World as Performance Art'. I already don't ride the university shuttle because most drivers listen to Rush Limbaugh exclusively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wajus Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 America is strange indeed. Political correctness doesn't cover all your bigot dirt you know? Nevermind... As for the article. Who can stop gays or women from playing computer games anyway? Oh Kings? : Armaggedon Happening sounds better i think. np Circle - Vaudeville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fov Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Yet a quick scouring of Internet message boards and forums, including Gamespot's, reveals a plethora of less-than-kind comments about gay people. i'm sure this is true, but you could insert so many words for "gay people" in that sentence and it would still be true. (Try inserting "adventure gamers"!) Considering the demographic (especially age) of the vast majority of "mainstream" gamers, it's not surprising that you find such comments on the boards they frequent. That's why you keep looking till you find a board you like (ahem -- like this one). Our wrists aren't as limp as you thought! -emily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomStLeger Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Something that suprises me about that article is that the writer suggests gay people are just another demographic group in the same way as say 18-24 female. Obviously they are a demographic group in the conventional sense, but I think it's impossible to start talking about them as targetable as he suggests with "Developers are smart: Gay people generally have a lot of disposable income." The only thing gay people have in common is that they are homosexual. It's still a hugely diverse group. It's like saying Max Payne or GTA are targeted at heterosexual people. I guess what I'm trying to say that there is this obsession with the idea of sexuality which is out of proportion; an idea that sexuality defines people. While it is a fairly big part of someone; it's no where near the most important quality. But they way sexuality is treated you'd think that everyones obsessed with sex 24/7 and that it defines every person on the planet. I don't know; maybe my thoughts are pretty random and off topic in this thread. I just don't understand why sexuality has to be invoved with everything and what the hell it has to do with computer games anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wajus Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 You are right. This article is simply pointless. As I said before who can forbid gays to play video games anyway? Why should I care whether someone playing Grim Fandango is gay or not? It's stupid. It's like paranoia or something. Are there any social, political, humane consequences of gays/women/muslims/christians playing (or not playing) video games? I don't know maybe womens can be treated as "viable" target group for developers... but other than that? There are so many different things that describe you as a gamer and sexual preferences are not one of those I think. We are gamers because we like gaming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remixor Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 I don't think the point is whether someone playing Grim Fandango is gay or not. Adventure games do not involve interaction with other humans, so they don't really relate to the guy's article. While I do agree to a point that this article isn't hugely necessary, I will absolutely confirm that the mainstream gaming community (particularly the action gaming community) is intensely homophobic. I don't even know if the individual people making up that demographic are homophobic, but as a collective they sure as hell are. It's so rampant as to be offensive to me just as a person, sexual preference aside. Quite frankly, I don't care if I come off as some kind of bleeding heart, but I think it's appalling and a bit frightening that to call someone gay or a fag, or a queer, or what have you, instead of using some generic insult, has become the norm. I think that young children (in particular boys) who grow up in this environment (which seems to be just as common in elementary schools) and who think they may indeed be gay are going to think there's something seriously wrong with them. Regardless of whether that's the intent or not, if you're struggling with the possibility that you're gay and you learn to equate "gay" with "stupid", that quite simply cannot have a positive effect. That worries me, and it seems completely and utterly unnecessary. There are a myriad adjectives one can use that go beyond sexual and racial slurs, but those two categories seem to make up by far the most common among pre-teen and adolescent (particularly young teen) males. Perhaps I'm making too much of a big deal about the whole situation, but I quite simply can't help but feel disgusted about the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordmaster Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Originally posted by DomStLeger Obviously they are a demographic group in the conventional sense, but I think it's impossible to start talking about them as targetable as he suggests with "Developers are smart: Gay people generally have a lot of disposable income." If that's true, then I demand to know where's my portion of the disposable income. Who has taken it? Where is it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Minnie Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Hey Swordmaster, I think the same people took your money that took my married-heterosexual-female-in-the-professional-workforce-with-kids money. It's a conspiracy I tell you! Either that, or your money and mine have gone toward buying one too many games! I absolutely agree that people in general are way to obsessed with whom everybody else is sleeping, and it has little bearing on many aspects of life, like gaming. I guess it makes for good "shock value reading," though. That must be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadworm222 Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Homophobia is actually a rather "new" thing. It began in the 1800s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curacao Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Originally posted by deadworm222 Homophobia is actually a rather "new" thing. It began in the 1800s... um, no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homoludens Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Originally posted by deadworm222 Homophobia is actually a rather "new" thing. It began in the 1800s... Sorry, wormie: Homophobia and the Ancient Hebrews It is commonplace to say that anti-gay prejudice is "a medieval Christian attitude." Although it is true that such prejudice was certainly expanded and cruelly enforced during the medieval Christian ethos, homophobia nevertheless began long before Christ or the Church Fathers, and is quite specifically Jewish or Hebrew. In comparison with other ancient legal codes, Mosaic law was relatively lenient — it listed a mere 36 crimes which were punishable by death. But of these 36 crimes, exactly one half were "crimes" involving sex, so in contrast to other legal systems the Hebrews gradually extended the notion of "crime" into the personal and private affairs of people rather than limiting it to the social and public level (such as the public crimes of murder or theft). Further, there rather quickly evolved the notion that crime and sex were intimately related. Unlike their contemporary Greek, Egyptian, and other civilizations, the Hebrews held the view that sex, the sex organs, and nudity were shameful. Essays by Rictor Norton on the Historical Roots of Homophobia from Ancient Israel to the End of the Middle Ages The Greek prelate Basil, in the 4th century, considered same-sex desire horrifying. It was, however, so overwhelmingly tempting a quill among the devil's arsenal that he spoke against the sin in the following terms: "When a young man converses with you . . . make your response with your head bowed, lest perchance by gazing fixedly in his face, the seed of desire be implanted in you by the wicked sower." As Fone comments, "Basil seems to know just how attractive a boy can be." If gay desire is an illness, the eyes, it appears, have it. A similar nervousness probably led Emperor Theodosius, in 393, to ban the Olympic Games. In discussing Europe during and after the Renaissance, Fone responds to the surfeit of material by making some odd choices. The English king Edward II is glancingly referred to but is deemed "familiar." The assassination of France's Henry III is related in full, however. Later, Fone dismisses well-informed comment on the private life of William Beckford, author of the codified Gothic novel "Vathek" as speculation. He should look up details of Beckford's harem of young male servants in the recent biography by Timothy Mowl. Still, there is space for fascinating lesser known material, such as the 12th century poem "Debate Between Ganymede and Helen." By design homophobic, this poem nonetheless contains many witty retorts by Ganymede, Zeus' catamite, to the straitlaced Helen. " Men who have ruled the world and held the highest offices . . ," he says, pointing to the popularity of homosexuality among great leaders and thinkers, "don't shun the silky crotches of boys." A history of homophobia by Richard Becker Silky crotches of boys? EIW!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleto4_ryan Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 I just don't understand why sexuality has to be invoved with everything em...because sexuality is one of the important things in our lives Ask sex-phycology if you don't believe me... Actually Most ancient greek were bi-sexual. Of course there wasn't such a name that days it was regular to do it. Imagine the armies...being for years away from country and your wife. There where, the "women" for the wars, but... well look at Iliada (Troia?) What do you think Achileas and Paris were . And most spartians were also... As a famous philosofer said, the best army is an army of loved men ---------------------------------------- As for the article. I may say it would be better if it was saying also about black men, chinese men etc. I mean it's true that we only see stereotypes in game. If you think about it, most games are rasist. Women had years to see one of "their sex" in the small screen. I understand the guy, it's true he is going a little away of what he wants to say. Anyway i think this article best goes to the "dumb" people who are SO right that they don't believe a different person may be a gamer, and i think the person is just buffled off those people. refference. The first gay superhero was out in 80' i think, after many years after the creation of the Marvel and DC universes. Also a black one was really late....(spawn was the first, wasn't?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feisar Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 I think its about time we had some more games aimed at the "gay" market. Okay so we dont all fit the stereotype with disposible income or whatever. But as well as being defined by our sexuality, we are also defined by the homophobia. By the hate crimes, verbal abuse, having to explain yourself, hosility.. The discrimination brings the gay community together. I live near a city called Brighton which over the years has grown a massive gay population, basically its where people run away to and then stay. If business and communities wont accept homosexuality then we've had to make our own.. We have homosexual magazines (gaytimes, axm, attitude..) shops (prowler, scene 22, clone zone..), lawyers, estate agents and Ive even heard of a gay removal firm.. A lot of music and film is aimed at us but never a videogame. There is a huge lack of understanding from companies. Some videogames portray the sexuality issue in a good light. Although this is usally from Japanese developers like Square-Enix rather than any western company. Eidos for example used lesbians to sell fear effect 2, to straight men, but threaten to sue any gay organisation for breathing a word about Lara Croft or even the lesbians in fear effect. Because they "dont want to be associated with that and its not what they would do". Ive always highly regarded nintendo. Their games are universal. Unlike other companies they dont build the discriminative boarders around everything. Everyone and anyone from any minority or majority group can enjoy their titles. Thats what gaming should be like. I think it is getting better, there are many homophobe free sites now like adventure gamers, and some message boards are trying to stamp it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadworm222 Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Well, I just trusted the information the Finnish equivalent of the Science magazine provided me... Looks like you can trust nobody these days BTW, what do you mean by EIW? Is it lust or are you about to throw up? (Hehee...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homoludens Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 LMAO! Boys don't have silky crotches! EIW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomStLeger Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Originally posted by pleto4_ryan em...because sexuality is one of the important things in our lives Ask sex-phycology if you don't believe me... Sex is not the most important thing in our lives. Hence it does not have to be involved with every aspect of peoples lives. And I personally have little respect for the opinions of Sex Psychologists. Originally posted by feisar I think its about time we had some more games aimed at the "gay" market. Okay so we dont all fit the stereotype with disposible income or whatever. But as well as being defined by our sexuality, we are also defined by the homophobia. By the hate crimes, verbal abuse, having to explain yourself, hosility.. The discrimination brings the gay community together. Feis, I understand where you're coming from but think about it. To appeal to the gay population would just be like appealing to the heterosexual population. The only thing that unites either of them is sexuality; so it's a very limited market. It'd be porn and love stories. Other games don't lend themselves well to it; gay tetris? heterosexual tennis simulators? gay max payne? heterosexual quake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wajus Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 I don't think the point is whether someone playing Grim Fandango is gay or not. Adventure games do not involve interaction with other humans, so they don't really relate to the guy's article.... But you should know that discrimination is a social not gaming problem. It is something more general and limiting it in any aspect to gaming is unneccesery if not wrong. No kind of discrimination should be treated as a problem of one community only. At the other hand computers, internet and games are in a way an educational tool. It's social influence is not to be underestimated. And in a way it could be used to convert all those poor racist/showinist/homophobic bastards out there to normal people. Internet is a very efficient tool, and it's not hard to scold a bastard who calls you "gay" by telling him that he cannot offend me by calling me like this really as it is no offence at all. I guess it works just like every day on the streets among casual people when I hear them calling others gays/jews/niggers like it was some kind of ultimate insult. At the other hand they become so defensless and speechless when you scold'em about their futile efforts to insult me. It really gives them something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanukitsune Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 This brings me back horrible memories:eek: (Curl up into fetal position) Before I came here I was at the most horrible forum ever... I wont say the name ever... It was filled with the gamers equivalent of white-trash or hill-billies... Most of them homophobes.... Every post had the word "f*gg*t" at least once... And the gay people at the forums made things worst by provoking them... It even had furries, the bad kind... the forum was filled with smut and all.... I tried to make an intelligent converstion but it was futile, they didn't even want to talk about games... It was like a cross between Jerry Springer and that Goat whatitsname webpage all blended in a forum... GOD BLESS ADVENTURE GAMERS! Where you can say what you want and you won't get mean looks for what you are.... I have a friend who is gay and a furry, so I now the "truth"... I was probally homophobic before... My best friend was afraid to tell me he was gay... but thank to him I am much more tolerant... I learned one important thing being gay doesn't mean you have to talk funny and dress funny, or even be "girly"... There are gay people out there more "macho" than me... So what if I had have beanie babies and I like Hamtaro? I think its stupid to say that gay people need gay games! Like most of you have said they are just like us, the only difference is that I find Tracey Nakamura sexy and my firend likes Gabriel... but we can both play Gabriel Knight! In the beginning gay meant happy, then it meant homosexual, now its stupid? Maybe in 20 years gay will mean "a day when you feel cold with short sleeves and hot in long sleeves". By the way, was the main character from Phantasmagoria II bisexual? But how do you make a "gay" game? If they make a game where the main character is exactly like the stereotype wont that offend them? (Wearing pink and puffy shirts, talking funny..) I mean I'm offended every time I see a cartoon / movie / game / comic that makes Spain look like Mexico in 1890.. For the last time we do not wear sombreros!!! Wouldn't women be offended if they made a game "for girls" where they have to shop and go to the beauty saloon? Wouldn't you be offended if they made a game about "gamers" where we had no social live, we were bald, fat and full of zits? So to make a game "gay" with out being offensive the main character should be gay, but not stereotypical, but then the only way to know that the main character is gay is see him/her interested in the opposite sex... But since games aren't that sexual how do we know that a character is gay or not? Man this post is getting too long... I better stop... Rather silly though people thinking that gay people like different games than straight ones... I mean my gay friend play the same stuff I do... Must stop tpying... Boring others... Ranting like a lunatic... :ninja1: Epp Ninja attack must leave.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feisar Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Originally posted by DomStLeger Sex is not the most important thing in our lives. Hence it does not have to be involved with every aspect of peoples lives. And I personally have little respect for the opinions of Sex Psychologists. Feis, I understand where you're coming from but think about it. To appeal to the gay population would just be like appealing to the heterosexual population. The only thing that unites either of them is sexuality; so it's a very limited market. It'd be porn and love stories. Other games don't lend themselves well to it; gay tetris? heterosexual tennis simulators? gay max payne? heterosexual quake? It doesnt have to be love simulators, porn or whatever.. Howabout an RPG where as the character grows older he's in denial realises he's gay/bi-sexual/whatever and has to deal with it.. or an adventure where you play a father who's just lost his son and find out that he's gay and all the implications of that, like how the father feels about homosexuality and how the grief, hate, predudice and everything leaves him not knowing how to feel (btw that has kinda been done with the orion conspiricy although they turned it into a crap generic sci-fi adventure). The possiblilites are endless... Gay or straight fiction/film is never always about porn or crude.. Queer As Folk, Tipping The Velvet and Beautiful Thing being high profile examples of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleto4_ryan Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Originally posted by DomStLeger Sex is not the most important thing in our lives. Hence it does not have to be involved with every aspect of peoples lives. Read carefully is one of the important things in our lives and it is. Sex and its problems affects people to a high degree that has define their life. example : there cannot be a happy marriage without a healthy sexual connection. example 2 : a teen who has problems defying it's sexuality can become so frustated that he won't be never happy in his life. And I personally have little respect for the opinions of Sex Psychologists. well you should have great respect...or you are never gonna fulfill a woman's needs ever and about the possibilities in gaming. I believa a "good" game for gays would be a simple one where the hero is gay without being stereotypical. Just that...T he "gay gamer" could feel better the connection between him and the game... Simple things...as when woman's feel more warm in a game where the hero is a heroine... gay max payne? Yes....don't laugh. What if, in the game, max was gay and they killed his Partner and their adobted child.... By the way, was the main character from Phantasmagoria II bisexual Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wajus Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Originally posted by pleto4_ryan Sex and its problems affects people to a high degree that has define their life. example : there cannot be a happy marriage without a healthy sexual connection. example 2 : a teen who has problems defying it's sexuality can become so frustated that he won't be never happy in his life. Ain't you a little frustrated pleto? I mean you sound like you're obsessed with sex. well you should have great respect...or you are never gonna fulfill a woman's needs ever Sex Psychologist don't have monopoly on satisfying the needs of women. And certainly I wouldn't trust any psychologoist in that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomStLeger Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Originally posted by pleto4_ryan Read carefully "is one of the important things in our lives" and it is. Read carefully: Originally posted by pleto4_ryan quote:I just don't understand why sexuality has to be invoved with everything em...because sexuality is one of the important things in our lives Ask sex-phycology if you don't believe me... Did you understand? I said I don't understand why sex has to be involved with everythung. You said "em...because sexuality is one of the important things in our lives" I said it's not the most important thing in our lives so it doesn't have to be involved with all of it. Nowhere did I disagree that it's not an important part of life; infact I implicitly agreed with you. I'll make this as clear and simple as possible: I say: Why sex in everything? Pleyto say: Sex important. I say: Sex not most important. Sex not have to be in everything. Pleyto say: Read carefully; you must misread and say pleyto say Sex most important. I say: No. All I say is sex just not most important. Agree sex important. Originally posted by pleto4_ryan quote:"And I personally have little respect for the opinions of Sex Psychologists." well you should have great respect...or you are never gonna fulfill a woman's needs ever Pleyto, if you need to get advice in order to have sex and satisfy a woman thats your own problem; most people don't go to sex psychologists as hard as that may be for you to believe. Most people get the hang of it on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleto4_ryan Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 you must know i am not 5 year old. Anyway your saying could have been easily misread...Your new explanations where better, well done. most people don't go to sex psychologists em....there are also books? ... and there are far more thinks in sex, that you never even dreamed about it. Sex isn't just insert object "A" in slot "B", that's a piece of cake, even for animals. The think is to understand your partner, not only phycically but also with the mind. And that's where the "knowers" give their knowledge more...to the mind aspect. and it's pleto..what the heck with the "y" Ain't you a little frustrated pleto? nope, thank goodness i know these things. Just ask some other people who don't even know the problems to their marriage is the fault of their sexual life, or they see their child locked to him/herself... and then you will see who is frustated.. don't have monopoly on satisfying the needs of women lol ( and also the needs of men) most people don't go to sex psychologists as hard as that may be for you to believe. too bad that's true, we are living in a very Taboo society I mean you sound like you're obsessed with sex. Ijust try to know and understand human soul as best as i can...i am obsessed with far more objects than sex...sex is just ONE of the many thinks out there to know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.