Guardian Omega Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 O_o, think of the cheating............. halflife2.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoguePhotonic Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I don't see what the problem is?...so what if the code was leaked? Half life 2 is single player only right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Omega Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 It has multiplayer as well, you didn't think Valve wouldn't attempt a CS2 do you?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jed Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 This is friggin' terrible.. HL2's MP will be destroyed before the game comes out....=/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jokemaster Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 OH MY GOD YOU KILLED MP! YOU BASTARDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockerD Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 i was really looking forward to HL2 MP....now its ruined....*sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Gnarly Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I really dont see what the big deal is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoguePhotonic Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Well if it's only a multiplayer thing then I don't care....I want the single player! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jokemaster Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Originally posted by Mamba I really dont see what the big deal is. It means the multiplayer will be hacked from the beginning. I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 ...and no one thinks that they'll be able to correct that? it seems likely that it will just delay the release...MORE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacco Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 It would take a hardy internet service to play MP in HL2. Maybe that is why they took it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XERXES Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 itl save us all a headache in the future trust me no more of this crap... *carefully sits on ridge waiting 10 minnutes for the last guy to wander near your sights* *BAM* *game restarts* AWP WHORE AWP WHORE AWP WHORE AWP WHORE CAMPER CAMPER CAMPER CAMPER *booted from server* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crow_Nest Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Originally posted by Jed This is friggin' terrible.. HL2's MP will be destroyed before the game comes out....=/ MP will be destroyed? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiE23 Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 ****!!!!! Us......................................................................................Them Oh, wait, oh yeah, im gonna wait for the Xbox version to come out It wasn't leaked, it was stolen from the building TiE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodus Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Originally posted by Jed This is friggin' terrible.. HL2's MP will be destroyed before the game comes out....=/ Not neccessarily. First of all, it takes time to write hacks and cheats for games, and if you do see someone cheating (e.g. actually walking through walls, or somebody going at super fast speeds) then you just get an admin to ban them or get their IP banned on the network. Second of all, people aren't going to write cheats just because they can - the majority of people will only make cheats if they're unhappy, that is the gameplay is really frustrating and annoying that it gives the player enough resolve to open up MSVC and start writing something. Why do you think CS has more cheaters than Gladiator-HL or Battle Grounds mod? It's because it's so easy to die in CS and when you die - that's it, you stay dead for the rest of the round. With or without the source, we will be seeing cheats a few months after HL2's release, simply because cheating is inevitable -all games have some form of cheating. The only problem now is... people can look at the guts of a cutting-edge game and they can steal things - like the AI and physics stuff (don't forget Havok is used in HL2, they're in deep **** as well). Yes, Doom 3 can simulate physics very well, but the last time I checked 20 drink cans stacked on top of each other and shot at caused the Doom 3 Alpha engine to fail. Yes Doom 3 has specular lighting and dynamic shadows, but more than two monsters with specularity and shadows on slows the game down enormously. Even though Doom 3 is slightly more advanced, HL2 still has things that people would be interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoguePhotonic Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 I love to cheat in online games but not like you think...when I cheat I just mess around and trip people out...I never start killing people like I am trying to play...that kind of **** is lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wassup Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Um wtf? Did some mod change the link or something, cause when I go to the url (halflife2.net) its just a regular Half-Life 2 info site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 If the link has changed...it has nothing to do with me... As for the leak...it sucks big time. This isn't simply about ruining MP. If someone has the source, there is a potential for them to be able to introduce some more nasty things - like viruses, or maybe gaining access to someone's PC through a back door. Maybe. And as stated above...it's bound to find it's way into the hands of unscrupulous people trying to make their own game engine, and give them a 'lead' on development over competitors. The whole situation stinks. The worst thing is that Valve apparently didn't have tight enough security in the first place. I don't think they'll be making such a costly error in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Blackrose Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Surprise surprise... Not. I'm surprised myg0t hasn't claimed responsibilty, even though they are allowing access to the source code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Originally posted by Nith Sahor Not neccessarily. First of all, it takes time to write hacks and cheats for games, and if you do see someone cheating (e.g. actually walking through walls, or somebody going at super fast speeds) then you just get an admin to ban them or get their IP banned on the network. That's totally not the point, people don't go out of their way to put up ibg sings saying "LOOK AT ME, I'M CHEATING" They use sneaky hacks to give emselves the upperhand, like seeing through walls, fluorescent skins for other people etc. etc. Second of all, people aren't going to write cheats just because they can - the majority of people will only make cheats if they're unhappy, that is the gameplay is really frustrating and annoying that it gives the player enough resolve to open up MSVC and start writing something. Why do you think CS has more cheaters than Gladiator-HL or Battle Grounds mod? It's because it's so easy to die in CS and when you die - that's it, you stay dead for the rest of the round. Why wouldn't people make cheats from the start, if they have a big chance to get a big advantage people are gonna jump to it. The source is leaked now, cheats can be released already, other devs can just bump their physics/AI/lgraphical information etc. etc. I think that perhaps even Havok may be able to sue Valve for this (they've got their advanced physics engine open to the world to see, costa lot of money ye know) Oh, wait, oh yeah, im gonna wait for the Xbox version to come out You're going to get it for an inferior system which has no multiplayer - the added length of a game and then miss out on CS2? Sounds a bit stupid to meh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_One Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 None of you seem to get the seriousness of this leak. Rather than explaining it myself, there's a great article over at BeyondHalflife.com I'll refer you to: An Explanation Of The Source Code Leak Gloryofbach, from the halflife2.net forums has written up a perfect explanation of what the source code leak means for Valve, and what it means for us. It's a worthwhile read for anyone who has been following the situation, as well as anyone who is trying to understand the situation. Click on "read article" to see his article. --- I've seen a lot of confusion about what the Half-life 2 source is and isn't, whether it can be compiled into a working copy of the game or not, and whether this is bad or not for Valve. I am a small time games developer myself and for the benefit of those in the community not into software programming or knowledgeable in games development, I thought I'd try and give a brief explanation. Apologies to the experts as some simplifications have been made for general consumption. 1) A game like Half-life 2 consists of two main elements, resources and programming code. The resources consist mostly of all the non-logic/instruction based elements of a game, that is the art, textures, sound, story script, maps etc. Things like the model and textures for the headcrab is typical of this. This is the largest part of a game in size, for a game like Half-life 2 typically over a gigabyte of the game will be resources. These resources cannot do anything by themselves, and if you have the right software, can be viewed/played as when making a mod. These are like the bricks and wood for the "house" Valve was building. The program code consists of the logic and instructions as to how the game will function. That is to say, the code directs the computer in how to utilize the resources mentioned above, in the correct manner to allow you to play a game. Examples of what would be included in the program code are the Source engine, the Havoc engine for physics, artificial intelligence routines, game launcher code etc. Using the analogy above with the headcrab, the corresponding program code would be the animation rules for the headcrab, its artificial intelligence behavior, its stats etc. This is like the architectural plan of the "house" Valve was building. 2) To play the game (as you will when it is released) you need the program code and the resources. What has been leaked is the program code, which amounted to around 160 megabytes of text (though this did include some non half life 2 related code), which is a SERIOUS amount of code. The resources for half life 2 are not included, and they would have amounted to at least a gigabyte. When programmers write code, they write it in so called high level language like C++. A high level language is one that is easy to understand to humans, so that editing it is easy during development. This is known as the source code, and is what Valve will be working on right until half life 2 goes Gold. This is what has been leaked to the public. The source code has many lines of C++ code, which you will have trouble understanding if you do not know C++ (though it is very easy to learn!), and some comments that explain what the code is doing. A computer is not designed to directly execute C++ code, which has been designed for a human to read. Instead it executes machine code, a far lower level language which is very hard for a human to understand. Coding in machine code would be a nightmare for a programmer and so they prefer to use C++ and other high level languages. Now for the computer to understand Valve's C++ source code, it must be converted to machine code. This is what a COMPILER does. Valve will run a compiler on the source code every so often, creating a bunch of executable files (machine code based) that can then be used to run the game and test the changes made to the source code. This is what you get when you buy a game: Resources and the compiled source code to run them. As such, the fact that the source code is in the public domain does not mean that anyone can compile a working game out of it, as all the resources are missing as well as a few other code elements. So this source code leak isn't a big deal for Valve right? Why all the worry? 3) A source code leak is a HUGE deal. Source code is only released for obsolete games (like Quake, Quake 2 etc) once the programming secrets they contained are deemed out of date and no longer valuable to rival developers. Half-life 2 is NOT an obsolete game. Is a cutting edge game incorporating many features that have never been seen before in a game, and more importantly is HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED. What does this mean for Valve? It means all the work behind the new features, the Source engine, the revolutionary AI etc is now exposed for anyone in the public and rivals to see, learn from, and God forbid, copy. Using the house analogy above, it means the new revolutionary solar powered house you were building has had its building plans stolen before you've built it. Now everyone knows how you solved all those problems which prevented people from building revolutionary solar powered houses. As an example, the Strider as seen in the released videos, is an amazingly novel creature to see in a computer game. It is seriously big, yet maneuvers around and interacts with the landscape in a convincing and intelligent manner. Getting a Strider to function like this will have taken Valve months of painstaking AI and animation work. Rival developers would have had to guess how on earth Valve pulled it off. Now they can simply look in the equivalent of the Strider AI source code file, and it will all be there, conveniently commented and explained by the Valve programmers for their own internal private understanding. The source code for half life 2 is the result of 5 years of hard work by some of the best programmers in the games industry. No one would have seen it (bar engines licensees) for 5 or 6 years at least, upon which it might have been released to the public (like Id software with Quake). The source code is not to be confused with the SDK as some people have. The SDK for half life 2 which will be released, is its Software Development Kit. This allows modders and fans to create games and mods using Half-life 2 technology, but does not tell them how the technology works. Unfortunately this is exactly what the leaked source code tells people. So in short , this means for Valve: All its clever routines and algorithms for making a revolutionary game like half life 2 tick, are available to be understood by anyone who knows C++, including game development rivals, hackers making cheats and exploits and the general public. More worryingly the source code seems to contain a lot of source code from partner software developers that Valve had licensed to use in Half- life 2, such as the Havoc physics engine, and that Valve is contract bound to keep protected and confidential. These leaks enable people to potentially rip off these software partners too, and hence opens Valve to be sued. Finally the internal workings of Half-life 2 have been so seriously compromised that I will be amazed if we see it released before 1st Quarter 2004. The potential for hacking exploits is enormous; it is like printing the blueprint to your high security safe in the local newspaper before having it installed in your home. SERIOUS work is needed now to rework the source code to protect it from future attacks on release. Let us not even mention that it seems Steam has been seriously compromised as well in the leaked source, as that had enough problems of its own to be getting on with without this. A leak of the source code of a revolutionary highly anticipated game like Half-life 2, close to release is, as far as I know, unprecedented. My deepest sympathy as a games developer goes to the Valve crew and I wish them every success in catching the perpetrators of this crime. Thanks for reading! http://www.beyondhalflife.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 That's an interesting read. Thanks for posting it, The_One. One thing that was only touched on in that article is the fact that Valve's reputation and credibility will be seriously damaged by this incident. Developers of other code utilised by them will be perfectly within their rights to sue, and they too will undoubtedly feel the impact of their own products being compromised. I guess the worst case scenario would be if Valve is sued into bankruptcy and has to close it's doors, which would be a pretty major blow that would affect the online gaming community. If a rival company was behind this effort, it would be a classic case of industrial espionage. If nothing else, this incident must serve as a warning to other developers out there to tighten their security protocols right across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|GG|Carl Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Originally posted by Tie 23 It wasn't leaked, it was stolen from the building Someone just stole it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jokemaster Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Saved it onto a disk and carried it out of athe building prob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 If a rival company was behind this effort, it would be a classic case of industrial espionage. T'would be unthinkable, it wouldn't be worth it if they were caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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