Did i miss something? (why the anger towards honor/RPGers?)

[Prime]

Originally posted by vS:Mr.Joshua

Now, the game is dead because of these factors...

 

1) At this same point in it's life cycle Jedi Outcast still had thousands of players PER DAY where as JKA has a measely thousand.

OK, but does less players automatically mean dead? Then again, everything is dead compared to Half-Life.

 

Originally posted by vS:Mr.Joshua

2) At this same point JO still had active leagues/ladders on the major tourney sites. TWL's been closed for JKA for months. CAL/IGL/OGL didn't even give it any attention like they did JO. Provinggrounds is pretty much the only comp site running any JO ladders aside of "clanbase".

True. Competative players have do not like JA. This has been documented. At great length. So definitely it is dead to this part of the population. However, it is not the only part of the population. I could care less about ladders and things of that sort, but that's just me. It may be the only part you care about, however, which is fine.

 

Originally posted by vS:Mr.Joshua

3) 1 patch. And I doubt there will be a second. Like JO the devs have given up on the game. Just took em less time to do so with JKA. And don't expect another patch either, Raven's working on Quake4, so they're not going to have any time for that lowly antiquated Q3 engine based glow stick flailing debacle known as JKA.

I also highly doubt there will be another patch. Whether the devs have given up on it or not, it is not in their power to say if there will be another patch, as that is Lucasarts decision. Another possiblity is that Raven is satisfied with the current incarnation of the game, even if you and competative players are not. It may be safe to say that JA was not developed with competative players in mind, which was their perogative. My guess is that they are very aware about what happened to JO with regards to patching, and with JA saw to leave things well enough alone.

 

But I understand why the game is dead to you. I just have different requirements

 

Originally posted by Master William

No wonder JA doesn't have that much players, it could have been a stupid expansion pak. I was very disappointed.

So were you somehow duped into thinking JA was a vast departure from JO? Why were you so surprised with what you got?

 

Originally posted by Master William

I prefer to wait long for an excellent game rather than to wait for a Jedi Outcast 1.05.

But you could have waited. You could have not gone to the store and not bought the game if it wasn't something you wanted. You must have known beforehand what engine it was based on and what things were different from JO. If it wasn't different enough for you, no one was ripping the money from your hand.

 

You may be happy to wait, but many of use don't demand a brand new engine and control system for every new game, and want games to come out fairly regularly. Luckily, we can both have our way. Just buy every third game that comes out

[Rad Blackrose]

Hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooly crap. Someone finally understood why we called Jedi Academy "Jedi Outcast 1.05" or "Jedi Outcaste Newbie Lite?"

[Prime]

Originally posted by Rad Blackrose

Hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooly crap. Someone finally understood why we called Jedi Academy "Jedi Outcast 1.05"

But Rad, I thought competative players wanted Jedi Outcast 1.05

[AxVegetA]

I agree with you all, that JA is JOs expansion pack. That doesnt changes the game, only the money you pay, i would play JA the same way if it were an expansion.

I guess this game didnt satisfied UT, CS or Quake players, it is either not competitive enough or you guys just dont like it.

 

BY competitive players i understand, ctf and team ffa (maybe siege) clans. Not duels or ffa. Right?

[Dr_night]

I haven't waded through the flame wars to post this, so if it's been mentioned before then you need to listen again because if you had actually read it, you wouldn't be flaming here.

 

if you are anti-rpg, then don't play on a pro-rpg (aka honour/newbie/ect...) server!

 

if you are pro-rpg Then don't play on an anti-rpg (aka leet/lamer/ect...) server!

[Rumor]

Originally posted by AxVegetA

I agree with you all, that JA is JOs expansion pack. That doesnt changes the game, only the money you pay, i would play JA the same way if it were an expansion.

I guess this game didnt satisfied UT, CS or Quake players, it is either not competitive enough or you guys just dont like it.

 

BY competitive players i understand, ctf and team ffa (maybe siege) clans. Not duels or ffa. Right?

 

duels were very competitive in jo (ff/so that is). Every one of the top TDM clans were primarily duel clans (aside from FK which was primarily CTF).

[Rumor]

Originally posted by AIVAS

I haven't waded through the flame wars to post this, so if it's been mentioned before then you need to listen again because if you had actually read it, you wouldn't be flaming here.

 

if you are anti-rpg, then don't play on a pro-rpg (aka honour/newbie/ect...) server!

 

if you are pro-rpg Then don't play on an anti-rpg (aka leet/lamer/ect...) server!

 

If i declare these forums my domain and only anti-rpg aka leet people can come here (like prime, kurgan, rad, etc. -- much <3 prime/kurg ) then would you stay away?

[Amidala from Chop Shop]

Besides the reasons already listed, I think JK:Jedi Academy has struggled for two reasons:

 

1. I don't think people really appreciate what a devastating, crippling blow the bugged\flawed ingame browser problem was. People crowded into the few servers that would show up, or gave up trying to get into those full servers, while most other servers were invisible and empty. It sucked the momentum right out of the game.

 

The most excitement about a game is when it first comes out (don't you remember, all of you who, like me didn't have the warez version, how excited you were in early September?). When people say "...at this point in it's life, JKII:Jedi Outcast blah blah..", you really have to subtract those horrible first almost 2 months before the patch came out when you look at "at this point" in JK:JA's "life". But the damage has already been done. Instead of an explosion of interest at launch, the ingame browser bug took the wind right out of JK:JA's sails. Like a runner or race horse that stumbles at the start, it never recovered.

 

2.Competition from other games. Here are some of the other FPS games (and yes, all you cheapo RPGers, the Jedi Knight games are classified as First Person Shooters (FPS), not ROABs [RPG On A Budget]) that came out in the first half of 2002 (JKII:Jedi Outcast came out in the middle of that time period). The number after the game was a reviewer's rating. I also include other Star Wars games that might have distracted Star Wars fans away from JKII:Jedi Outcast:

 

Mobile Forces Shooters 77 Jun 11, 02

 

The Sum of All Fears Shooters 72 Jun 05, 02

 

Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds - Clone Campaigns Strategy 70 Jun 03, 02

 

Soldier of Fortune 2: Double Helix Shooters 91 May 23, 02

 

Ghost Recon: Desert Siege Shooters 76 Apr 02, 02

 

Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast Shooters 92 Mar 30, 02

 

Command & Conquer: Renegade Shooters 77 Mar 01, 02

 

Medal of Honor: Allied Assault Multiplayer 89 Feb 08, 02

 

Star Wars: Starfighter Simulation 74 Feb 01, 02

 

Serious Sam: The Second Encounter Shooters 88 Feb 07, 02

 

Not that many other games, and this site rated JKII:Jedi Outcast the highest with a 92 rating.

 

Here are the FPS and Star Wars games that came out in the second half of 2003, and again JK:Jedi Academy came out in the middle of that time period with it's fatally-flawed ingame browser:

 

Armed & Dangerous Shooters 72 Dec 08, 03

 

Deus Ex: Invisible War Shooters 85 Dec 02, 03

 

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic RPG 93 Nov 27, 03

 

XIII Shooters 74 Nov 17, 03

 

Call of Duty Shooters 93 Nov 03, 03

 

Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne Shooters 82 Oct 19, 03

 

Warhammer 40,000: Fire Warrior Shooters 19 Oct 16, 03

 

Freedom Fighters Shooters 86 Sep 30, 03

 

Medal of Honor: Allied Assault - Breakthrough Shooters 60 Sep 29, 03

 

Halo: Combat Evolved Shooters 87 Sep 29, 03

 

Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy Shooters 87 Sep 16, 03

 

Battlefield 1942: Secret Weapons of World War II Shooters 91 Sep 05, 03

 

Tron 2.0 Shooters 84 Aug 26, 03

 

Chaser Shooters 59 Aug 20, 03

 

Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided RPG 73 Jul 11, 03

 

Star Trek: Elite Force 2 Shooters 80 Jun 24, 03

 

Will Rock Shooters 64 Jun 10, 03

 

Day of Defeat Multiplayer 82 Jun 06, 03

 

Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory Multiplayer / Jun 05, 03

 

PlanetSide Shooters 78 Jun 04, 03

 

So not only did JK:JA have much more and better FPS competition than JKII:JO, it had two other significant Star Wars games (particularly KOTOR) sucking "Star Wars" fans' money\attention\time away.

 

When JKII:Jedi Outcast came out it was much different than it's predecessor, was released around the time of a new Star Wars movie, had less and weaker competition, had not been nerfed\patched yet, and had an ingame browser that worked, so it shot out of the gate and gathered momentum. Whether or not it was a better game, you can't ignore these other factors when comparing JK:JA to it.

[GUNNER]

Originally posted by vS:Mr.Joshua

Hahaha I don't think you're going to be able to stop "yoda was a ...." His proxy ownzor your ban system.

 

Then you must not know much about our banning system or the IP octet system.

 

Say this guy has an IP of 220:220:220:220, so we just ban that whole octet. But if he has another ( not static) IP of 220:220:220:219 we can then also ban that octet or else we can ban 220:220:220:xxx but then we might ban numerous people as well. But it is do able. It just depends on how bad we want to get rid of someone.

 

Consider it colateral damage.

 

So in essence, we are in control, don't let any one else tell you different.

[vS:Mr.Joshua]

Amidala you conveniently left out UT2k3 which came out at the height of JO's popularity.

[Amidala from Chop Shop]

I listed the games that came out around the time that JKII:Jedi Outcast came out (1st half of 2002). UT2k3 came out at the end of September 2002, approximately 6 months after JK2. By then, JK2 was well-established, but it probably (along with the patches) did contribute to the leveling-off of JK2. If it had come out before or shortly after JK2 came out, perhaps Jedi Outcast would have been less successful. But still, JK2 was such a big advancement over DF2:JK, probably not. Jedi Academy was not the same type of big advancement over Jedi Outcast, and there were more good games that came out around the same time that it had (has) to compete with.

[Kengo]

I am surprised how worked up some people get over the honour thing, but I don't play JA MP enough to really notice it. At least you can't really 'camp' with a saber...

 

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop

1. I don't think people really appreciate what a devastating, crippling blow the bugged\flawed ingame browser problem was. People crowded into the few servers that would show up, or gave up trying to get into those full servers, while most other servers were invisible and empty. It sucked the momentum right out of the game.

 

I'd completely forgotten about that. It was a real problem, there were about 3 Siege servers in the entire World according to that browser thing. I used QTracker for finding servers, but it and all the other server tools took time to update to JA, and it must have killed some momentum. I know I was put off.

 

It did seem that JA came out amidst some good FPS or SW games like Max Payne and the PC version of Halo, in a real eventful period.

 

I don't think it recieved sparking reviews on the whole either. No one said it was a terrible game (which it isn't, IMHO) but some of the big magazines like PCG (UK) really panned it quite a lot, saying it wasn't a big enough step forward from JO.

 

If you want to know when a game is officially dead, try find a non-clan server playing my once beloved TFC in Europe...there are like 20....used to be hundreds.

[Master William]

When they announced JA, they said it would use a new engine, not at all like Jedi Outcast. They must have been sarcastic.

[Prime]

Originally posted by Rumor

If i declare these forums my domain and only anti-rpg aka leet people can come here (like prime, kurgan, rad, etc. -- much <3 prime/kurg ) then would you stay away?

If only it were that easy

 

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop

I don't think people really appreciate what a devastating, crippling blow the bugged\flawed ingame browser problem was. People crowded into the few servers that would show up, or gave up trying to get into those full servers, while most other servers were invisible and empty. It sucked the momentum right out of the game.

This cannot be overstated. And not just the bad browser, but the leaked beta that showed up in the browser as well. The majority of players likely would not make the effort to find out what was wrong or when it might be fixed. Most would see there there were only a few servers, and most of those they could not connect to. Most would then just give up on the game outright. This killed the community right out of the gate.

 

I'm usually a supporter of Raven, but in this case the blame falls squarely on them. People can say what they want about no kicks and the katas, but the browser bug is what damaged the game the most by far.

 

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop

When JKII:Jedi Outcast came out it was much different than it's predecessor, was released around the time of a new Star Wars movie, had less and weaker competition, had not been nerfed\patched yet, and had an ingame browser that worked, so it shot out of the gate and gathered momentum. Whether or not it was a better game, you can't ignore these other factors when comparing JK:JA to it.

Apart from the browser bug, I always wondered how JA would have done had JO not existed. What if JA was the first Dark Forces game since JK? Presumably it would have done just as well as JO did.

 

The thing that always strikes me as funny is that the competition for JA as far as SW games go mainly comes from RPG games. Galaxies and KOTOR go out of their way to provide an indepth RPG experience (and KOTOR delivers in spades). JA has no current competition from other SW FPSs. There are no other options for FP/TP lightsaber combat. But what do we find on JA servers? Lots of people trying to RPG. And not only that, JA is the worst for providing that experience.

 

As for the monthly fee of Galaxies, how is $14/month or whatever that outrageous? I mean, that is few beers. Surely RPGers play enough that it works out to under a dollar an hour. Are most RPGers young teens that can't get their parents to foot the bill?

[Prime]

Originally posted by Master William

When they announced JA, they said it would use a new engine, not at all like Jedi Outcast.

False.

 

"Q. What engine does the game use?

 

A. The game is built on the same engine as Jedi Outcast (which was based on heavily modified Quake 3 Arena code), but it has been even more heavily modified in terms of terrain scale and complexity, model animation and definition, scripting and other areas. "

 

Note the engines mentioned in the released info for each game:

 

JA:

"Developed by critically acclaimed Raven Studios and powered by the Quake III Arena engine."

 

JO

"Developed by critically acclaimed Raven Studios and powered by the Quake III Arena engine."

 

So "they" must not have known what they were talking about.

[Master William]

It said on their old website. Didn't last long, looks like they changed and decided to work with the JO engine instead. I even got a newsletter a long time ago from them, stating the same facts.

[Rad Blackrose]

Prime: The problem with SWG was that it was a big pile of festering **** when it was released by SOE. It made the premature abortion formerly known as known as EverQuest's Shadows of Luclin look like Sesame street. It has taken almost a quarter of a year to get back to what they were promising for release. 14 bucks a month for a solid game is not worthy of complaints. 14 bucks a month for a piece of shovelware, on the other hand...

[ksk h2o]

My biggest problem with JA is not being able to find a full force duel/ffa server which won't kick me after a dozen or so kills.

[Prime]

Originally posted by Master William

It said on their old website. Didn't last long, looks like they changed and decided to work with the JO engine instead. I even got a newsletter a long time ago from them, stating the same facts.

Oh really.

 

It is safe to assume that by the time the game was announced, they didn't switch back to an old engine. They did, afterall, begin developement of JA soon after JO was released in spring 2002. The press release announcing JA came in April 2003. So you are saying that after a year of development, they ditched the engine they were using, switched to the old one, and then finished everything in 3 months.

 

Excuse me if I am not convinced. But who knows, maybe you are right. Does anyone have information stating that Raven switched from a new engine to the old JO one after development began?

 

In any event, by the time the game came out, you should have known that JA did not feature a brand new engine.

 

Originally posted by Rad Blackrose

Prime: The problem with SWG was that it was a big pile of festering **** when it was released by SOE. It made the premature abortion formerly known as known as EverQuest's Shadows of Luclin look like Sesame street. It has taken almost a quarter of a year to get back to what they were promising for release. 14 bucks a month for a solid game is not worthy of complaints. 14 bucks a month for a piece of shovelware, on the other hand...

Ah, so I have heard from just about everyone. From what little I have seen, I have to agree. Curse your air-tight logic!

[Rumor]

Originally posted by GUNNER

Then you must not know much about our banning system or the IP octet system.

 

Say this guy has an IP of 220:220:220:220, so we just ban that whole octet. But if he has another ( not static) IP of 220:220:220:219 we can then also ban that octet or else we can ban 220:220:220:xxx but then we might ban numerous people as well. But it is do able. It just depends on how bad we want to get rid of someone.

 

Consider it colateral damage.

 

So in essence, we are in control, don't let any one else tell you different.

 

So in essence you believe that you are in complete control, when the person in question can change all four of his octets at will. Be as holier-than-thou as you like, but you aren't the first to use vB or a subnet banning system.

 

Not trying to be insulting, just an observation, but I find it very humorous that people think they know some great secret once they have admin status for a forum where others do not. Sorry, buddy but a lot of us have been playing online games for 13+ years not to mention USING the internet for more than that. In that time i believe we have aquired at least some semblance of networking knowledge. Hell some of us were playing games way back when over serial cables.

[Giddamon]

Originally posted by ksk h2o

My biggest problem with JA is not being able to find a full force duel/ffa server which won't kick me after a dozen or so kills.

 

Many people has that problem

[GUNNER]

Originally posted by rupart

hey if u guys want 2 kno how to get past the censor all you have to do is put <b></b> inbetween 2 of the letters of the word so like **** = fuck

 

btw prime ur a fucking fairie

 

You start trying to skirt the censors and you will be on the bus out of here real fast like.

 

Comprende.

[GUNNER]

Originally posted by Rumor

So in essence you believe that you are in complete control, when the person in question can change all four of his octets at will. Be as holier-than-thou as you like, but you aren't the first to use vB or a subnet banning system.

 

Not trying to be insulting, just an observation, but I find it very humorous that people think they know some great secret once they have admin status for a forum where others do not. Sorry, buddy but a lot of us have been playing online games for 13+ years not to mention USING the internet for more than that. In that time i believe we have aquired at least some semblance of networking knowledge. Hell some of us were playing games way back when over serial cables.

 

 

So what your saying is you have an answer for everything huh.

 

Ok, you win. your a GOD and we are not.

 

BTW, your not Al Gore are ya?

[Rad Blackrose]

Actually Gunner, Rumor happens to be right.

 

There are ways to reset all octets, thus evading bans faster than you can ban them.

 

How do you thing we (we being the anti-honor, laming community) are able to dodge bans on JA servers?

[Break_dF]

Originally posted by rupart

hey if u guys want 2 kno how to get past the censor all you have to do is put <b></b> inbetween 2 of the letters of the word so like **** = fuck

 

btw prime ur a fucking fairie

 

Can I nominate this guy for moderator status?