RoxStar Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Originally posted by Astrotoy7 *prints out thread, puts into scrapbook of weird & wonderful posts/threads, nest to Roxstars pokemon bashing thread, and the attack on Evula thread* Crraaappp.... Did you seriously pring that out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapNColostomy Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Originally posted by Breton Your problem is that you do not even attempt to understand the situation these people are in. You seem to believe these people aren't human, or at least not as much human as us "good" westerners. That's actually pretty scary. No, MY problem is that your talking out of your *$$hole. Because I never said that anyone who isn't a "good westerner" isn't human. I said that people, who make demands that if aren't met, chop your head off, are evil co**suckers, and terrorists. Do you not agree? Because if you don't, THAT, my friend is what is pretty scary.Where I come from, cutting off someones head or killing of any sort, in MOST cases, is just, well, you know, EVIL. I don't know what back-asswards place you come from. You're trying to turn this into a "BUT THEY STARTED IT!" thing. And this isn't the place for that. This thread is about head-taking-chicken****-terrorists. If you want to justify beheading people by trash talking the United States, feel free. Just maybe start your own thread in the senate. It's not like I don't think they believe they are right. Obviously they think they are completely justified. Why else would they keep doing any of the things they are doing, if they didn't believe in their cause? Can I call you Captain Obvious? And lastly, allow me to please convey my great disgust at what you think I "seem to believe". You have no idea what I believe. With exception to what I stated previously in this thread. Originally posted by Breton I believe no one has the right to judge others Do tell. [EDIT] PS, Captain Obvious? Just so you know, even if it were American Christians who were snatching up random Arab Muslims, chopping their heads off, and video taping it for the whole world to download on the internet, I would STILL call them evil co**-suckers. In fact, it's probably been done. And they were evil co**suckers too. So poke that in your pipe and smoke it, Mr. Walk-a-mile-in-their-shoes. Oh, and comparing what I said to what a random German in the 30's would say about the Jews, MIGHT be relevant, or even thought provoking, if the Jews were chopping peoples heads off. And besides. You're talking about everyone in a religious demographic. The Jews. I was talking about terrorists. Not Arab Muslims. You are aware that there's a difference, right? You got some balls on you to try and paint me up as a Nazi, when you assume anytime somone mentions the word terrorists, they automatically mean Arab Muslims. In this particular case (the beheadings), they are Arab Muslim EXTREMISTS AND RADICALS. Arab Muslim and terrorist are not synonymous. Ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jed Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 OT: You think that Evula thread was great? You weirdo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Originally posted by obi-wan13 Yes, I do. All of my evidence is found here: anyway, Sucks the korean guy died Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Originally posted by Jed OT: You think that Evula thread was great? You weirdo you werent part of the magic, the fun part was gettin busted by "pops", namely obi. it was like me siv, sabre, pie were smokin pot at evula's house, and he came there and told us we were all in trouble ah, but the mayhem we wrought, I cant believe it lasted a few days, rather than a few hours, I noticed some dude came in here trashtalkin the other day, lexxy shut him down quicksmart * * * back to topic * * * Breton. Thank you for the detailed outline. I think sometimes people confuse what your saying as judgemental statements rather than information. Its very hard to make the differentiation in an emotive atmosphere. When I read your posts, I take the info on, follow the links and learn a valuable lesson about the role of facts within statements of opinion, and contribution to discussion. Whether I agree or disagree makes the experience no less valid, or significant * * * my comiserations to the family of the korean man. absolutely terrible. those people responsible are murderers first and foremost, any other label applied to them is secondary.... * * * obi, thank you for taking our comments on board phew, what a thread ..... and I hear it's like this in the senate all the time, that just sounds like no fun at all mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kale Jerre Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Originally posted by obi-wan13 Did it ever occur to you that we've never kidnapped any of their innocent people and beheaded them and put it on tape for all to see? ...obviously not. and... Originally posted by obi-wan13 As I said earlier, we have never invaded Saudi Arabia. It was (or am I mistaken? If so, please correct me with a link or something) Saudi Arabians that did this. True, no beheadings going on (at least that we know of) and no invasions of Saudi Arabia. That said, there are plenty of Saudis being held at Guantanamo Bay, however, and that's not a place you want to be taken with no guarantee of humane treatment. Maybe you should stop and consider why you won't see footage of interrogations being conducted there--security is not the main reason, regardless of what the Bush administration will tell you. Treating 'suspected terrorists' inhumanely only makes us as filthy as a confirmed terrorist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapNColostomy Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Originally posted by Kale Jerre Treating 'suspected terrorists' inhumanely only makes us as filthy as a confirmed terrorist. "Us"? You got a mouse in your pocket? You and your mouse might be as filthy as a confirmed terrorist, but I'll thank you kindly to not blame me for something that may or may not be happening to prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, as I've never been there. I think what Obi was saying, is that the people responsible, were Saudi Arabians. Not that it was the fault of all Saudi Arabians. See how that works? Blaming only the individuals involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Originally posted by CapNColostomy "Us"? You got a mouse in your pocket? You and your mouse might be as filthy as a confirmed terrorist, but I'll thank you kindly to not blame me for something that may or may not be happening to prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, as I've never been there. I think what Obi was saying, is that the people responsible, were Saudi Arabians. Not that it was the fault of all Saudi Arabians. See how that works? Blaming only the individuals involved? indeed, generalisations are bad M'kay ! mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_One Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 So, can we bash Bush now? Or is that still off limits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kale Jerre Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Originally posted by CapNColostomy "Us"? You got a mouse in your pocket? You and your mouse might be as filthy as a confirmed terrorist, but I'll thank you kindly to not blame me for something that may or may not be happening to prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, as I've never been there. I think what Obi was saying, is that the people responsible, were Saudi Arabians. Not that it was the fault of all Saudi Arabians. See how that works? Blaming only the individuals involved? No need to be pedantic. In the future I'll be very specific about who I'm referring to (which anyone who bothered to read for intent and not the exact letter would have taken to mean the US government, etc. and not the average citizen on the street). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 i was going to post in this thread... then i decided better of it. BUt what the hell. First: Sorry about the guy who got beheaded. Second: There are several ways of looking at this. (a) You can say that the people who did it were wrong, and leave it at that (and even add in a bit of rage and hatred as well). This is a pretty valid response. (b) You can say that they were wrong, but also attempt to understand WHY it happened. This doesn't mean you have to sympathise with those that did it, or even their supporters, but if you have an understanding of how it came to that then surely you have a better chance of preventing it happening in the future? Much of this "understanding" depends on where you are standing. It is always easy to condemn those on the other side, and support those on yours, but the truth is often more complex. You could say that these people are just evil scum, but that implies that they were predestined to do this, which i don't believe. The other option is to think that something must have happened in their lives to lead up to this point, and if you can stop that happening to others, you can stop it happening again. You would be amazed at the number of wars that have been fought where god was apparently on BOTH sides, and the other side was always evil. Which doesn't quite add up. Often the "truth" ends up being written by the victors... Frankly, i don't buy this whole "evil terrorist" thing. One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter. Often terrorists use unsavoury methods such as targetting civilians, but this isn't just because they woke up one day "evil" and felt like it. If you are fighting a massively overwhealming force you end up having to strike where you can, and trying to get the maximum exposure and effect on the enemy morale from your limited actions. This has always been the case in uneven wars. (look at bomber harris, considered a hero by some and a war criminal by others. Indiscriminate bombing of civilians in the cities. Military value: pretty small. Morale value:huge. And of course at that time the UK was facing a vastly overwhealming force and had to strike where it could). (or you could look at hiroshima, war of independence and so on). OF course, by such actions you can end up annoyig and hardening your enemy's resolve, which is why a terrorist approach is never going to completely win the day. But it can raise your profile enough to give you some power in negotiations. If you look at it coldly, by beheading one man they got fdar more coverage than the deaths of the 70 or so other people killed in "normal fighting" that day. So i suppose you could say that they got more result for less suffering. (hiroshima?) The world is much more complex than "us and them", "good and evil" or even "muslim and western". There are whole ranges of complex opinions held on both sides, and just as complex reasons for those opinions and actions. So you can go with (a), that is ok. Personally i think (b) would be more constructive in the long term... but it is much easier to condemn and forget than to remember and try to solve. (the quick and easy path...? ) Me? In general i think "they" have good reason to be annoyed, and i understand why some of them end up in the situation where they can justify doing this, but i still wouldn't support killing anyone, on any side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MennoniteHobbit Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Makes a lot of noise, though. I'll have to agree with that part. Well, in a way, you could say that obi's right about the terrorists not following the true God. Terrorists claim they're following their religion of Islam, yet is Islam known to hijack planes and kill people? Terrorists just use their religion and hate as a reason to kill people. If the terrorists were following the true God, and actually following their religion correctly, not "ridding the world of the dirtied American scum", then they wouldn't be terrorists at all, or at least not as extremist as they are now. So, they're actually following some "Kill American" variant of God. Terrorists' minds at work here. So, can we bash Bush now? Or is that still off limits? Democratic strategy: blame the President for everything bad that happens, unless he's a Democrat. Then he's only doing what's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoxStar Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Originally posted by MennoniteHobbit I Democratic strategy: blame the President for everything bad that happens, unless he's a Democrat. Then he's only doing what's right. Replace Democratic with Republican, Inependent, Green Party, Whig Party, Communist and you get how our country works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Originally posted by MennoniteHobbit Democratic strategy: blame the President for everything bad that happens, unless he's a Democrat. Then he's only doing what's right. Republic strategy: Whenever they hear someone say something offensive to the president, they're automatically a liberal fanatical Democrat:rolleyes: Honostly, if Bush was a democrat I'd still bash the **** out of him just cuz I think he's done a half-assed job, but we're not here to talk about Bush, now are we. Though, apparently we're not acting any more rationally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MennoniteHobbit Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Republic strategy: Whenever they hear someone say something offensive to the president, they're automatically a liberal fanatical Democrat Actually, you'll find that most of the people who bash Bush like their life depends on it, are Democrats. And for the others, the people who bash Bush usually bash him about Democratic agenda/issues. But let's let us end that discussion, shall we? Anyways, I suspect (sadly ) that there's going to be one more hostage taken by al-Qaida or another of the terrorist organizations, if no one can do something to prevent them/stop them. And there was another attack in Iraq today, just less than a week of the handing over power/soverienigty (sp?) to the Iraqi interim government. I hope Wednesday doesn't become delayed or anything bad happens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 I doubt anything will delay the handover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MennoniteHobbit Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Hopefully nothing horrendous happens either, then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapNColostomy Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Originally posted by toms Frankly, i don't buy this whole "evil terrorist" thing. One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter. "If crime fighters fight crime, and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight?"-George Carlin Look, I see what you and Breton are saying. Try to understand why this is happening. And I'm going to say one more time, that it's pretty obvious that the terrorists that are responsible for these beheadings feel that they are in the right, because why else would they be doing it? But I'm curious. If you spoke to a family member or friend of Daniel Pearl, Nick Berg, Paul Johnson, or Kim Sun-il, would you come with that "try to understand" crap? I would hope not. You see, I HAVE tried to understand. And I keep coming back to the same thing. Cutting of someones head is wrong. And I'm not trying to put myself on the moral high road, or say that God's on "our" side and not "theirs". I'm just saying that I don't really care what your reasons are, cutting off someones head is wrong. I wonder where you and Breton were when you couldn't turn on the news without hearing about the prisoner abuse scandal in Iraq? Were you trying to explain it away, saying "well, you just have to try and understand those soldiers mindsets"? Of course I don't know the answer to that, but somehow, I really doubt it. Another thing I've done, in an attempt to "understand" why this happens, is gone back and watched Daniel Pearl talk about his family, his job, his parents, his religion, his nationality, and then, get his head cut off. Then I watched Nick Berg do basically the same thing, screaming in horror until his vocal chords were severed. He was still alive for a few seconds more before the head was completely detached, because even after the screaming had stopped his face continued to contort in pain and terror. I reviewed the pictures of Paul Johnson laying belly down on the floor, with his own head sitting in the middle of his back. Blood soaking his prisoner outfit. And lastly, I watched for the first time last night, Kim Sun-il sitting on a floor blindfolded, begging for his life. Screaming, crying, pleading for his country to not help the United States. And I almost had to laugh when I imagined you, toms. You and Breton walking in to interupt the man pleading for his life, by saying "well Kim, instead of doing all this whining and begging, and being upset, you should just maybe try to understand why these guys are going to do this. They're somebodys hero! And your country has pissed them off!". Then they cut his head off. Somehow, I doubt your explanations would make any of these men die a more peaceful death. In fact, I imagined that in every scenario. toms and Breton, swooping in seconds before the beheadings took place, to try and make these men understand why they were about to die a gruesome death. To help them try to "understand". And it was very funny. And I thank both of you for that. Originally posted by Kale Jerre No need to be pedantic. In the future I'll be very specific about who I'm referring to (which anyone who bothered to read for intent and not the exact letter would have taken to mean the US government, etc. and not the average citizen on the street). Thanks! Because I never developed the ability to read minds, and if you don't say what you mean, well...you can see where it might be confusing to us non-psychic internet users. When all I have are letters to go by, I kind of have assume you mean what you put in your "exact letter". And not what you intend. Believe me. If I could have your magical super powers, I'd use them. In fact, I wouldn't even log into LF to be "bothered to read". We could just communicate with our mystical magical minds. So now you're saying that everyone involved in the US government is responsible for prisoner abuse that may or may not be taking place at Guatanamo Bay? Does that include secretarys, office clerks, mailmen, etc? Because I work for the government. And I've never been to Cuba. Or seen any of the people held captive there. So once again, maybe you should narrow down your field of blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MennoniteHobbit Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 You and Breton walking in to interupt the man pleading for his life, by saying "well Kim, instead of doing all this whining and begging, and being upset, you should just maybe try to understand why these guys are going to do this. They're somebodys hero! And your country has pissed them off!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 They never said they condoned the terrorists actions, but the world isn't black and white like most of you wanna think it is. They're evil to us, we're evil to them. Get off your blackandwhite BULL**** and deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MennoniteHobbit Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Please CapN and Kain, calm down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Actually Capn, I was trying to stand up for you. I was trying to make light that everyone but YOU thinks the world is morally black and white and how stupid it is to think that. Didn't you learn anything from this thread? GENERALIZATIONS AND ASSUMPTIONS ARE BAD. Excuse me for not using every name for those of you with uh...well, I'll just say a lack of 'imagination'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapNColostomy Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Originally posted by Kain Actually Capn, I was trying to stand up for you. I was trying to make light that everyone but YOU thinks the world is morally black and white and how stupid it is to think that. Didn't you learn anything from this thread? GENERALIZATIONS AND ASSUMPTIONS ARE BAD. Excuse me for not using every name for those of you with uh...well, I'll just say a lack of 'imagination'. Ah. Well in that case, please accept my humble appologies. I'll delete the posts right away. Stupid is me. The good thing about having a big mouth, is being able to fit both my feet into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 No problem and no offense taken. Damned terrorist make people mad. Of course we make them mad. DAMN YOU SHADES OF GREY!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wilson Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 You mean you damn life as nothining is black and white, that means everything in life is gray, wait im not in Philasaphy It is a bitch that they killed that man. I agree with kains first idea tho, nuking the hell outta all the east, but id go further and nuke the hell out of all the west. In fact id just blow the planet up. There problom soveled with no real loss. Except mabey LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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