Changes ARE being made to Star Wars DVDs.

[Astrotoy7]

Originally posted by Troopr-Undr-Fir

.... So if you are someone who thinks GL literally stole something from you... What does a single release mean to the memory you had of first time seeing the Star Destroyer crawling over your head? Memories are forever, not trivial releases.

 

werdage. I agree with the Troopski.

 

*hugs Troop*

 

SW is special to me *today* because of the effect it had on me when I was a kid, and saw *that* scene..... Memories are everything to me.... As for you ppl who havent even seen ANH ... PFFT to you !

 

hmmm, Kain has been guilty of generalising before....but I think his chickens have come home to roost....

 

wow, Kurgan, impressive again, who wouldve thought you have a shred of sanity left patrolling the JA forum to be able to make great posts like that...

 

*would hug Kurgan but is scared of him*

 

mtfbwya

[acdcfanbill]

alot of the changes are considered wrong in most everyones eyes except george :s

[Spider AL]

Originally posted by Troopr-Undr-Fir:

 

Wrong in your eyes, but not everyone has your eyes

Stating the obvious and avoiding answering the point. Mature debates are not made of this.

 

ANSWER the point: Why would any of us buy DVDs of our favourite films at all, if all we needed were our original memories? Your assertions make no kind of sense at all.

 

Originally posted by Troopr-Undr-Fir:

 

Not that I'm saying they shouldn't be able to see the original trilogy. But is it not the same movie? Only with a new coat of paint.

What do you think makes a movie? It's the look, feel and scenes within it. If you change those, of course it's not the same movie. If this were anyone but Lucas they'd be releasing it under the subtitle "producer's cut" and they'd also be providing the original cut on the same medium.

 

But that's not the point. Hayden's inclusion is the point. It's Georgie Porgie infecting what was not the fruit of his loins alone (the Original Trilogy), with what IS the fruit of his loins alone, the prequels (crap).

 

He is revising a piece that most of those who saw it enjoyed, and this should not be allowed.

 

Were the producer of Casablanca still with us, should he be allowed to digitally replace Dooley Wilson with... Kevin Spacey... AND THEN DELETE THE ORIGINAL?

 

Should the producers of Jaws be allowed to retroactively apply cybernetic paraphernalia to the body of the shark... AND THEN DELETE THE ORIGINAL?

 

Of course not. And the complaint is that Lucas has made a hash of this new cut by putting the annoying little fool from the prequels into the original trilogy's last scene payoff, AND REFUSES TO RELEASE THE ORIGINAL.

[Kain]

Originally posted by Astrotoy7

hmmm, Kain has been guilty of generalising before....but I think his chickens have come home to roost....

 

What chickens?

 

And your right Troopr, I did generalize about everyone hating Christiansen, and now that I think about it, it was mostly people in the Star Wars forums that where bashing him, so...

 

...he still sucks:D

 

And my bad for the generalizations: I just think they mind as well have Obi bend Anakin over if they're gonna rape something...

[Crazy_dog no.3]

Originally posted by TK-8252

According to this site, yes, the burn effects were censored. Things were different in the 90's!

 

And... silly silly Kurgan... didn't you follow the story? The Imperials are the good guys, and the Rebels are the bad guys.

 

Uh-oh. I just checked my SW video. It IS censored! ****! I always go the extra mile just to get the more brutal/profane/sexy version of a film (The UK has a horrible history of cutting films), and this toned-down version is the ONLY one available?! Aaargh!

[Troopr-Undr-Fir]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Stating the obvious and avoiding answering the point. Mature debates are not made of this.

 

ANSWER the point: Why would any of us buy DVDs of our favourite films at all, if all we needed were our original memories? Your assertions make no kind of sense at all.

 

What do you think makes a movie? It's the look, feel and scenes within it. If you change those, of course it's not the same movie. If this were anyone but Lucas they'd be releasing it under the subtitle "producer's cut" and they'd also be providing the original cut on the same medium.

 

But that's not the point. Hayden's inclusion is the point. It's Georgie Porgie infecting what was not the fruit of his loins alone (the Original Trilogy), with what IS the fruit of his loins alone, the prequels (crap).

 

He is revising a piece that most of those who saw it enjoyed, and this should not be allowed.

 

Were the producer of Casablanca still with us, should he be allowed to digitally replace Dooley Wilson with... Kevin Spacey... AND THEN DELETE THE ORIGINAL?

 

Should the producers of Jaws be allowed to retroactively apply cybernetic paraphernalia to the body of the shark... AND THEN DELETE THE ORIGINAL?

 

Of course not. And the complaint is that Lucas has made a hash of this new cut by putting the annoying little fool from the prequels into the original trilogy's last scene payoff, AND REFUSES TO RELEASE THE ORIGINAL.

 

 

Well, my short and sweet sentence before explained it better, but if I have to spell it out... EVERYTHING YOU HAVE JUST WROTE IS YOUR OPINION.

 

You are entitle to it, but that doesn't make me wrong.

 

so on that, I am taking myself out of the subject since I guess I don't get my point across well enough.

[Kurgan]

The issue is NOT that Lucas shouldn't be able to change and modify his own creative works to his heart's desire (that's a strawman argument often put forth by Star Wars fan bashers on the internet to defend Lucas).

 

Rather, the issue is with Lucas's stubborn refusal to release the ORIGINALS on DVD. Rather, he insists on giving us the option ONLY to purchase these modified versions of the classic films we fans grew up with and supported all these years.

 

So it's really not the fans who are to blame for Lucas's decision, but Lucas himself. He could easily have avoided all of the fan angst over the Special Editions, etc if he'd just promise to release the originals on DVD as well.

 

For now we just have "rumors" that sometime in the future, he *might* release another edited version on a better format for the next big anniversary of Star Wars.

 

And Lucas has tons of money. He could tomorrow decide to cancel the release of the DVD's, and cancel ROTS, and still die a rich man. That's not the point either. The point is that he's not LOSING anything by making both versions (the originals and whatever modern modified version he claims fits his "original vision" these days) available for purchase. As of now, he's losing money to bootleggers and generating negative hype (which may work in his favor, I guess, but I'd say the average person looks at it and says "NERD ALERT!!!" and doesn't care) about it. So he's only hurting himself and his franchise by not giving the fans what they want.

 

And it's not like other directors haven't made special edition DVD's of their movies and modified them (Alien Quadraligy, Robocop, E.T., Night of the Living Dead, etc)., but they understand that it's important to make the originals available for historical purposes and for those who prefer the originals. Lucas doesn't seem to grasp this. Instead he's stuck in "revisionist" mode, and wishes us to forget the originals ever existed, and his apologists wish us all to "shut up and like it." Well, I disagree.

 

If you love the changes, think the originals are outdated and shouldn't be released, and agree with everything Lucas says, fine, you're entitled to your opinion. But the rest of us aren't just crazy, it's a perfectly reasonable point of view and expectation.

 

To each "side" of this debate... the "dont' release original" point of view excludes the rest of us who want the originals. The inclusive view, that the originals should be released allows everyone to be happy, because it doesn't stop the modified versions from also being released. There isn't even an out of print Star Wars Trilogy DVD set we can get off ebay or in some hobby store.

 

To sum up: it's not the ACT of defacing a classic in order to "update it" that angers me (and many others I imagine), it's the stubborn refusal to make the originals available as an alternative.

 

Sorry for the rant, like I said, done it before...

[CapNColostomy]

I posted this earlier in another thread, and thought it might apply here as well.

 

Originally posted by CapNColostomy

Let me see if I can put this in terms you people can understand. Because you're missing the point. I don't think I own the movies. I know George Lucas owns them. Let's say for instance Robert Plant and Jimmy page from Led Zepplin take up rapping, and mixing and scratching. Now lets say that they decide Stairway to Heaven, a classic song that people have felt was done right the first time around, needs to be overhauled with their new...crap. Yeah, it's theirs, so they CAN do with it whatever they see fit. Does that mean I have to like it? Or be happy about it? Certainly not. Does that mean I'll be buying it? HELL NO. Same with this new bastardized SW trilogy.

 

ps, I hate LZ and Stairway to Heaven almost as much as I hate GL.

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by Astrotoy7

wow, Kurgan, impressive again, who wouldve thought you have a shred of sanity left patrolling the JA forum to be able to make great posts like that...

 

*would hug Kurgan but is scared of him*

 

mtfbwya [/b]

 

Heh, I'm honored. ; )

 

*reminds me of that scene where Dr. Evil is trying to give his son a hug in 'Austin Powers'*

 

Hey, I think that new Jabba scenes looks "super sweet" but something inside me wants to be secure in the knowledge that I still listen to the choruses of "Yub Nub," avoiding seeing that singing dust bunny and horny Boba Fett, and see Han waste Greedo under the table before the green dude can squeeze off a shot and embarrass himself as the worst bounty hunter in the universe. ; )

 

And if I have to end the saga seeing that long-haired whiney bratty creep Anakin instead of the world-weary but grateful old man, well, that just sours a lot of otherwise pleasant entertaining memories. I buy DVD's because I know they will last and I can watch them over and over. You know? Hayden did a good job portraying an annoying poorly adjusted young man, which is how Lucas wants Anakin to be at that age. Letting us see him as an old man rounds out the experience, so he doesn't just go from apple-cheeked kid to teen hearthrob and suddenly he's the ultimate evil. Life is a series of transitions. I would think that the "new" Anakin would be older and wiser for his many mistakes, not suddenly a kid again, when the other, nobler Jedi don't get such a reward.

 

Some stupid "fans" may say they want to flay Lucas alive for "raping their childhood" and that's silly. But Lucas isn't doing this to get back at those people is it? No, he's doing it for some reason known only to himself, one that we fans can't understand.

[Kain]

CapN, that was poetry.

[Spider AL]

Originally posted by Troopr-Undr-Fir:

 

Well, my short and sweet sentence before explained it better, but if I have to spell it out... EVERYTHING YOU HAVE JUST WROTE IS YOUR OPINION.

 

You are entitle to it, but that doesn't make me wrong.

 

so on that, I am taking myself out of the subject since I guess I don't get my point across well enough.

I see LF is still cursed with a minority that don't feel they have to back up their baseless assertions with any facts or even spurious arguments. What a shame.

 

Originally posted by Kurgan:

 

No, he's doing it for some reason known only to himself, one that we fans can't understand.

To be honest, I think that the fans figure somewhere in his twisted reasoning. He seems to want to FORCE the prequels into the primary canon, even though they're crap. He doesn't care. He likes them. He wants to make the original films which were the inspired product of many minds and hands, into his nonsensical whimsy alone. He'll be digitally inserting a big pink collar onto Han's outfit next. All the decisions that were ill-advised, that he was dissuaded from making, he will make retroactively, as an act of pure arrogance and ego.

 

What a bottom that man is.

[Astrotoy7]

Originally posted by Spider AL

....To be honest, I think that the fans figure somewhere in his twisted reasoning. He seems to want to FORCE the prequels into the primary canon, even though they're crap. .....

What a bottom that man is.

 

*clicks heels together*

 

Toto, we're not at LFN anymore, this is TFN Fan Forums ! O No !

 

 

mtfbwya

[Spider AL]

Toto, we're not at LFN anymore, this is TFN Fan Forums ! O No !

*puts on French accent*

 

You know it's true. How nice!

[Sam Fisher]

Eh... that last scene in RotJ with the ghosts... eeeeww.

[Spider AL]

I think this says it all.

 

http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2374

 

I especially like these:

 

http://images.somethingawful.com/mjolnir/images/cg09142004/Comeau.jpg

 

http://images.somethingawful.com/mjolnir/images/cg09142004/osoiman.jpg

[Sam Fisher]

 

Those are great

[Nairb Notneb]

Well, all I can say is put me in your ring Kain and that GL is an evil marketing genius. I wonder if he really wants to make his movie better, or if he wants to make his pocket book fatter. He knows that chumps like me that already have the real OT on VHS, the SE OT on VHS are going to go out there and buy the OT on DVD. I feel so gullible and stupid and a moth drawn to the flame. George, just take my money now, please, my wife hates it, she hates it, she hates it. Every time we see a sign or advertisement for the DVD she simply says no. I ignore it and try to think of a way to get it without here knowing it. I have a problem. Hello, my name is Nairb Notneb, and I'm a Star Wars-a-holic.

[El Sitherino]

What's with you people saying it's all about him wanting more money? Perhaps he just wants it to be more like he envisioned it. Lots of artists re-do their work if they aren't satisfied.

If you don't want to buy it, don't buy it. Just stop complaining, and griping, noone cares if you aren't gonna buy it. Just sit their hugging your original copy VHS' and be gone.

[toms]

its pretty clear that the "original special editions" that had the cinema re-release were almost entirely done to build hype for the upcoming prequels.

GL looked through the films and his offcuts for any little bits that he could change just so he could claim it was a "special edition" and then made those minor changes.

 

(Its like the directors say in the intros to the Alien and Alien 4 "director's cuts" - these aren't really director's cuts, as we were happy with the originals - but they are alternate versions we made to give the fans something new for this dvd release). At least they are being honest and also provide the originals.

 

I don't think GL foresaw that there would be such an outcry about the changes being WORSE, and that (combined with people dissing Ep1) made him angry and stubborn. The more people complained about him, the more he stuch his heals in and resisted. ANd he basically said statements about this being his definitive vision that make it very hard for him to back down and release the originals without loosing face.

 

You can tell that even HE doesn't believe in some of the changes he made. He is trying to get out of the bad Han Solo changes without going completely back on his word... ending up with something between the two versions.

I don't know why he didn't release a alien quadrilogy style set with BOTH versions though, as it would be a great way to apease the fans and keep face by selling both together.

--------------------------

I have to admit i am still really looking foreward to these, EVEN WITH THE CHANGES. But i figure they have to be better than the special editions, and even a great film with a few bits broken is still a pretty great film.

 

I'm happy about cleaning up SFX (boxes round ties, rancor etc... - although i must admit i liked the "fuzzier" look to the sabers and blaster bolts in the first film more than the cleaner look in the later ones),

 

i don't get nonsensical changes that don't make sense (anakin being a young ghost, greedo shooting first)

 

and there are a number of changes that aren't that bad, but i prefer the original way (extra jabba scene seems pointless as it repeats all the dialogue from the immediately preceeding greedo scene, prefered the old yub yub music at the end of ROTJ etc..)

 

It'll still be great, but there will always be a bit of my heart that twinges every time there is a new bit and i remember the original.

--------------------------------

The stuff about him "always meaning it this way" is an absolute load of rubbish. Read the original 3 drafts of the SW script. The first two are ENTIRELY DIFFERENT STORIES, the third one begins to resemble ANH, but has almost nothing refering to ESB or ROTJ, let alone events for prequels and sequels.

He may have come up with ideas to add stuff later, or had a rough idea of other stories to tell, but the bit about him always meaning it to be 9 films is rubbish.

(You would think that in the 20 odd years he had to think of it he would have ironed out all the inconsistencies that the prequels introduced as well...)

 

PS/ Am i the only one who was disappointed to find that this ALL POWERFUL EVIL EMPIRE that i had imagined had been around for decades only lasted about 10 years?

PPS/ Off to pick up my dvds...

PPS/ Almost ALL artists look back on their old work and see things they would do differently, or they want to change. I do it with my WORK for god's sake. But if everyone of them went abck and kept changing it we would never have anything that was finished or released or accepted.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by toms

PS/ Am i the only one who was disappointed to find that this ALL POWERFUL EVIL EMPIRE that i had imagined had been around for decades only lasted about 10 years?

I think it's a pretty good run considering they covered multiple galaxies.

 

But yeah, it's a movie, there are always parts you do and don't like in movies, but small bits that you don't like shouldn't make you hate the entire movie.

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by InsaneSith

I think it's a pretty good run considering they covered multiple galaxies.

 

But yeah, it's a movie, there are always parts you do and don't like in movies, but small bits that you don't like shouldn't make you hate the entire movie.

 

Considering that the old Republic lasted what? 10,000 years? I can't remember...but the Empire didn't do very well at ALL

 

 

As for the likes and dislikes, it's not the fact that there are small bits that I like and dislike. It's the fact that George Lucas is basically giving me the finger and telling me that the movie that I saw and fell in love with is CRAP and his new version is right and I can go ahead and die if I don't like it.

[toms]

Originally posted by ET Warrior

Considering that the old Republic lasted what? 10,000 years? I can't remember...but the Empire didn't do very well at ALL

 

And even then the old republic handn't managed to reach out to many of the outer systems.

 

I saw a train station last night that still had "British Rail" on it, even though it hasn't existed as such for almost 10 years... if they can't even get the train station signs sorted in that time, imagine trying to sort out the galaxy.

There would be whole sections of the galaxy that hadn't even GOT THE MEMO that the galaxy was under new management before the emperor fell.

 

interesting quote you all wish GL had read:

Aldous Huxley wrote this in regard to a later edition of Brave New World:

 

To pore over the literary shortcomings of twenty years ago, to attempt to patch a faulty work into perfection it missed at its first execution, to spend one's middle age in trying to mend the artistic sins committed and bequeathed by that different person who was oneself in youth - all this is surely vain and futile. And that is why this new Brave New World is the same as the old one. Its defects as a work of art are considerable; but in order to correct them I should have to rewrite the book - and in the process of rewriting, as an older, other person, I should probably get rid not only of some of the faults of the story, but also of such merits as it originally possessed. And so, resisting temptation to wallow in artistic remorse, I prefer to leave both well and ill alone and to think about something else.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by ET Warrior

Considering that the old Republic lasted what? 10,000 years? I can't remember...but the Empire didn't do very well at ALL

hello, dictatorship, it's very remarkable to go that long in that big amount of space fighting rebels. because the military usually gets very spread out, I think it's a good run, but meh.

[toms]

Few interesting posts from a discussion on slashdot about a GL interview on yahoo.

 

I've noticed that an artists favorite work is rarely what is considered his or her best work. Artists are generally in love with the idea they had in their head when they were creating, but fans grow to love a work because of the ideas and emotions that flow through it, quite often without the artist's knowing. A piece connects with something inside each individiual audience member, and it's hardly surprising that the artists don't have a firm grasp as to how that works. If they try to rationalize it, they'll likely screw up whatever it was that was working.

 

However, Lucas said that the vision in his head is not what went into the actual movie (something like 20-30% he said). So people responded to what was actually made and not what he would consider a "complete" movie.

 

It's like this is the movie I wanted it to be, and I'm sorry you saw half a completed film and fell in love with it.

 

So basically what he says is, he got lucky with Star Wars. Because what he wanted to make was garbage. Look at the prequels - he had much more control over these, and comparatively they sucked. They are tripe on their own, without using the original three as a crutch.

 

So the movies that people loved, and built his "empire" (so to speak) were not his true vision. We have seen his vision, and it isn't that great. So I think it is time to stop giving Lucas any credit for the first three movies. He doesn't want it, and he apparently doesn't deserve it. Actually, the more control he had, the worse the movies got. It was kind of obvious to me that he had more control with ROTJ, because of the Ewoks and some of the direction the story took. I am almost looking forward to EPIII - not to see it, but just to see how bad it is.

 

http://movies.yahoo.com/news/ap/20040915/109528362000.html

 

GL comments on mesing with movies:

“Star Wars” creator George Lucas, who testified with Steven Spielberg before Congress in the 1980s against colorization and other forms of alteration, said the process yanks such slapstick performers as the Stooges out of the black-and-white universe they belong in.

 

“Would color distract from their comedy and make it not as funny anymore?” Lucas said. “Maybe just the fact that they’re in black and white makes it funny, because their humor is dated. But by putting it in black and white, it puts it in a context where you can appreciate it for what it was.

 

“But you try to make it in full living color and try to compare it to a Jim Carrey movie, then it’s hard for young people to understand. Because you’re then thinking you’re comparing apples to apples, when you’re not. You’re comparing apples to oranges. I’m saying it’s not fair to the artist.”

[Samuel Dravis]

Originally posted by toms

GL comments on mesing with movies:

“Star Wars” creator George Lucas, who testified with Steven Spielberg before Congress in the 1980s against colorization and other forms of alteration, said the process yanks such slapstick performers as the Stooges out of the black-and-white universe they belong in.

 

“Would color distract from their comedy and make it not as funny anymore?” Lucas said. “Maybe just the fact that they’re in black and white makes it funny, because their humor is dated. But by putting it in black and white, it puts it in a context where you can appreciate it for what it was.

 

“But you try to make it in full living color and try to compare it to a Jim Carrey movie, then it’s hard for young people to understand. Because you’re then thinking you’re comparing apples to apples, when you’re not. You’re comparing apples to oranges. I’m saying it’s not fair to the artist.”

Hehe. I guess he forgot. Starting to look like Kerry.