Dagobahn Eagle Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 call me sick, but is she dead yet? I'm sick of the news. It's just sick that they are putting mass coverage on this whole thing while there are CONSCIOUS LIVING people dying of starvation in other countries. It disgusts me. Come, let me buy you a huge pizza and a ba-a-a-d drink. So your saying she can't serve a purpose being in a vegetative state? Look around you, if it wasn't for her we wouldn't be having this conversation right now! She is serving a huge purpose. Everything serves a purpose. There's a good side of everything. But that does not make it right. Want to serve a purpose? If those $2 million were spent on vaccination on third world children, we would afford to vaccinate roughly 80 000 children against all common diseases. Diseases that claim the lives of roughly 5500 children every day. That serves a higher purpose than keeping someone alive because you love her too much to let her go, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Originally posted by kipperthefrog if she is hanging in between getting better and dying, how do we know what god's will is? is it in god's will that we remove the tube or keep her here? Thas why you shouldn't try and second guess god's will. It isn't possible. Is it his will we intervene, we don't interevene, we intervene but then stop. Who can know. So it becomes an invalid argument. As for the money, i heard he said he would give what was left to charity. Which he has no reason to do, but would be a very kind gesture. Its perfectly understandable that parents get wrapped up in their kids welfare to such a degree that they stop thinking clearly... but that doesn't make them right. At least the court showed some common sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Here's how we determine gods will. Take her off the machines, if he wants her to live, he'll perform a miracle, if not she was meant to die and go to her rightful place in heaven/hell. People need to stop being selfish, especially those parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Exactly:) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Not to change the subject, but Won't stem cell researh solve problems like Shiavos? if it would regenerate the brain after somthing like parkinsense desease, or somthing simuar, would it help her problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 These other countries of yours, do they include, say, Norway? Norway "puts irrecoverable patients to sleep" on a daily basis. In many other countries, too, euthanasia has been legal for a long time. I didn't know about that. If those $2 million were spent on vaccination on third world children, we would afford to vaccinate roughly 80 000 children against all common diseases. Diseases that claim the lives of roughly 5500 children every day. Your right in your numbers, but, the sad fact is the doctors Mr. Schiavo sued probably weren't going to spend that 2 million on vaccinations. Everything serves a purpose. There's a good side of everything. But that does not make it right. Want to serve a purpose? Exactly, all things work together for good. Thats a Biblical verse (paraphrased), but I cannot remember where it is located... Thas why you shouldn't try and second guess god's will. It isn't possible. Is it his will we intervene, we don't interevene, we intervene but then stop. Who can know. So it becomes an invalid argument. We have free will, we make our own choices. Here's how we determine gods will. Take her off the machines, if he wants her to live, he'll perform a miracle, if not she was meant to die and go to her rightful place in heaven/hell. People need to stop being selfish, especially those parents. Perhaps... but God knows the past, present, and future, so He knows the best outcome. Its been 1 1/2 weeks now right? She has hung on a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IG-64 Posted March 31, 2005 Author Share Posted March 31, 2005 The Pope had a feeding tube put in, and he can't talk.... Lets starve the pope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 He wrote out a note that said IG-64 is full of crap, though. Seriously, you don't see the cognative ability of the Pope as equal to that of Schiavo, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue15 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 any of you watch the south park episode tonight? XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Originally posted by Rogue15 any of you watch the south park episode tonight? XD Muwahaha "Taking that pipe out of her is playing God!" "Actually, putting that pipe in was playing God..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Originally posted by InsaneSith Here's how we determine gods will. Take her off the machines, if he wants her to live, he'll perform a miracle, if not she was meant to die and go to her rightful place in heaven/hell. People need to stop being selfish, especially those parents. But then, is it god's will that we take her off the machines? Is it god's will that the court has ruled this way? Its impossible to tell. Seriously, you don't see the cognative ability of the Pope as equal to that of Schiavo, do you? I don't know about you, but I have for years.... Your right in your numbers, but, the sad fact is the doctors Mr. Schiavo sued probably weren't going to spend that 2 million on vaccinations. Probably not, but that is 2 million lessthey will have to spend on patients (so they will have to miss some operations, or raise fees), or that is the insurance premiums for doctors nationwide going up to cover it. The money doesn't just come from nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Schiavo, 41, died 13 days after doctors removed the feeding tube that had kept her alive. (Full story). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 May she rest in peace now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Nine Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 'Bout bloody time. Now she can truly rest easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legameboy Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Her soul was practically gone anyway. =\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue15 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 now she can be in peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IG-64 Posted March 31, 2005 Author Share Posted March 31, 2005 Well, IMHO, Michael Schiavo was committing adultery by being with another woman and having 2 kids outside his marriage, and he shouldn't have been given power over Terri's life. And the fact that he was married in common law to the other woman, committing bigotry, which is against the law. If he had not been given power she might have been given tests, scans, and therapy and might have gotten better, despite the assumption that she was already dead, even though there was no medical proof of this. Terri was looking around, recognizing, and smiling at family, answering questions with grunts, and could've been saved. But it is too late now, and may she be in peace. "Is the b**** dead yet?" - Michael Schiavo (dunno if he really said it, but it was reported by a nurse) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Originally posted by IG-64 Well, IMHO, Michael Schiavo was committing adultery by being with another woman and having 2 kids outside his marriage, and he shouldn't have been given power over Terri's life. And the fact that he was married in common law to the other woman, committing bigotry, which is against the law. Look at what his wife is, though. She's supposed to be dead, she's being prolonged just to please her parents, and she is draining his resources, which could be much better spent on his own children. Not to say though that Micheal isn't a scumbag, just that he does have legit reasons for wanting to end her mortal life. If he had not been given power she might have been given tests, scans, and therapy and might have gotten better, despite the assumption that she was already dead, even though there was no medical proof of this. Terri was looking around, recognizing, and smiling at family, answering questions with grunts, and could've been saved. But it is too late now, and may she be in peace. I don't know, it seemed like to me modern medical medicene(yay for alliterations) couldn't turn her back into a independent human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 IG, your post is a good example of biased, unreasoned and irrational thought. Originally posted by IG-64 Well, IMHO, Michael Schiavo was committing adultery by being with another woman and having 2 kids outside his marriage, Which is a place that the so-called religious right has targeted Schiavo in their campaign to attempt assasination of his character. The facts are, however, that Michael Schiavo did not commit adultery since his wife was essentially dead and her intention was to not be on extended life support in the event that her condition was such that it was. Of course, the only way we know is because Michael stated that she told him this. Does that that mean that she did? Of course not. But when you engage in a contract of marriage, you give your spouse the right to make such decisions in the event that they aren't written on some sort of instrument that supercedes intimate conversations. The very fact that she trusted his judgement enough to enter into a lifelong contract of marriage, gives that ability for Michael to act as her proxy. It would be unreasonable for us to expect Michael Schiavo to abandon his goals of establishing a family and raising children because he has a brain dead wife in the hospital being grotesquely kept alive through artificial means against their express will. This was done for nearly as long as you've been alive! 15 freakin' years! The doctors he had told him that her condition was not recoverable -was he to be denied the chance at living his life because his wife's life was gone? What spouse would truly wish that on their loved one? Originally posted by IG-64 and he shouldn't have been given power over Terri's life. Then she shouldn't have married him. I understand that if I'm ever in such a predictament and without a written instrument to guide family and physicians, my wife will have the ability to make those decisions. I'm counting on that and this is what happens when you make a committment like marriage. The so-called religious right, by protesting Michael Schiavo and his wife's wishes have threatened the sanctity of family and the very family values they claim to uphold. Why? Becuase it furthers their agenda in the abortion issue by using the "right to life" bullcrap. It's hypocrisy at its fullest. Originally posted by IG-64 And the fact that he was married in common law to the other woman, committing bigotry, which is against the law. It isn't bigotry unless you legally formalize your marriage, which they did not do. But this is more evidence of your irrational and biased thought processes, interested only in propaganda and not facts. Originally posted by IG-64 If he had not been given power she might have been given tests, scans, and therapy and might have gotten better, despite the assumption that she was already dead, even though there was no medical proof of this. How do you know? Have you reviewed the medical files? Have you consulted with the physicians? In one of the court decisions that favored Michael Schiavo, the court instructed that each side (the husband and the parents) would gather the opinions of two physicians each of their own choosing and the court would obtain the opinion of a fifth physician unassociated with either side. The phsyicians of the parents said that it was possible that she might recover; the husband's physicians stated that it would be impossible and that her cerebral cortext was liquified (these don't grow back). Obviously there's a bias, but which way? The fifth, unassociated physician decided the direction of the bias by agreeing with the husband's physicians. Get your facts first and support what you say and you won't seem to be nonsensical. Originally posted by IG-64 Terri was looking around, recognizing, and smiling at family, answering questions with grunts, That hasn't been established. People in persistent vegetative states rarely recover if they haven't already in a period that is somewhere under a year; moreover, it is common for people in persistent vegetative states to react to various stimuli without actually performing cognitive acts or engaging in cognitive thoughts. Originally posted by IG-64 "Is the b**** dead yet?" - Michael Schiavo (dunno if he really said it, but it was reported by a nurse) A very irresponsible statement unless it can be substantiated to a primary source. Particularly since you "dunno if he really said it," but, again, it speaks to your inability to engage in rational thought when it comes to such a significant issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 The real tragedy of this case is not only the sheer time, effort and media attention spent on a very simple issue, but also the court system's inability to be swiftly decisive in this case. The woman was brain-dead, and her physical shell was being kept alive against medical advice and her own wishes by a sadly, and fanatically, grieving family... with a grudge against her husband. The law should have intervened to remove life support LONG ago. What if the woman WAS partially aware? Over fifteen years of mute motionlessness, she'd have gone HORRIBLY INSANE. It would have been TORTURE. Fortunately she was well out of it. But the courts should shape up and allow those who wish to die... to die. Quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 That is a very excellent point, I cannot imagine how completely miserable I would be to live in a bed for 15 years, unable to talk or communicate with friends or family, not able to feed myself or control any bodily functions. That would be worse than dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Fortunately she was well out of it. Or so you think. No one can be 100% sure. From what I have heard on the news, she didn't have a will in writing. Nothing else can be proven true. Of course, the only way we know is because Michael stated that she told him this. Does that that mean that she did? Of course not. But when you engage in a contract of marriage, you give your spouse the right to make such decisions in the event that they aren't written on some sort of instrument that supercedes intimate conversations. The very fact that she trusted his judgement enough to enter into a lifelong contract of marriage, gives that ability for Michael to act as her proxy. Right, but the fact your overlooking is that he broke that vow. What rights should he get? Its like commiting a felony, you lose rights. He broke his vow, and so why should he be entitled to marriage rights with Terry? In fact, I could go as far as to say that whole statement contradicts itself, because, since you claim she is dead, then she is not his wife. Its like a divorce- would you let your ex-wife decide your fate? If you disagree with that, you must acknowledge that they were (because now she is dead) married and that he has committed adultery/bigotry. Why? Becuase it furthers their agenda in the abortion issue by using the "right to life" bullcrap. I see what you mean, but I think it was just parents wanting their daughter to live. They are deep into catholicism and asked their local priest for advise and support. IG, your post is a good example of biased, unreasoned and irrational thought. To a certain extent all posts are biased, its all how you look at it. It would be unreasonable for us to expect Michael Schiavo to abandon his goals of establishing a family and raising children because he has a brain dead wife in the hospital being grotesquely kept alive through artificial means against their express will. Artificial means? Ummm, it was a feeding tube. It just feeds her, just like a person feeds their young child, sort of. Its obvious she could stay alive without the machine... for a while. I think its is unreasonable to opt out of your responsibility. This reminds me of something in the bible. Seriously, this is a good read... 2nd Samuel Chapter 11: NIV While these two cases are fairly different, they are also simular. David screwed up, and had a responsibility. He should have told Uriah and admitted he was wrong. He should have owned up to his responsibility. Michael had a responsibility. It was his wife. You see, now he has had her killed (it is murder, no matter how you look at it, whether she was almost dead or not). He didn't want to continue his responsibility to his wife. True, its not his fault, but the point is still there. To continue the story (for those interested) Also a good read: 2nd Samuel Chapter 12 NIV God later went on to call David "A man after my own heart." Jesus Christ was a descendant of David (and through bathsheba too!) That there is proof of how God works everything for good! I just realised this, but through that affair, Jesus Christ was born... kinda (I say this because Joseph wasn't the biological father of Jesus) If it wasn't for that affair Joseph wouldn't have been born. Those two chapters are really good though... really good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 ... Why are people using the term bigotry? big·ot·ry Audio pronunciation of "bigotry" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bg-tr) n. The attitude, state of mind, or behavior characteristic of a bigot; intolerance. Perhaps you mean bigamy? Anyway, had he been allowed to take his wife off earlier like she should have, he wouldn't have to have "broken his vows". Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 Artificial means? Ummm, it was a feeding tube. It just feeds her, just like a person feeds their young child, sort of. Its obvious she could stay alive without the machine... for a while. That would be artificial means my friend. She would have died otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Lol @ bigotry. That would be artificial means my friend. She would have died otherwise. I see. Anyway, had he been allowed to take his wife off earlier like she should have, he wouldn't have to have "broken his vows". He didn't have to remarry. No one forced him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 He didn't have to remarry. No one forced him. And he didn't have to put up with the BS of the parents, but he did. Seriously though, you try waiting 15 years staying loyal to somone no more alive than a cucumber. Eitherway, the husband and parents should be bludgeoned to death with a shoe. They're all idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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