Terri Schiavo's feeding tube removed.

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by InsaneSith

That would be artificial means my friend. She would have died otherwise.

 

Indeed, it's not like they were holding food up to her mouth and she was eating it, they had to directly have the food pumped into her body, because she was unable to move anything.

 

Right, but the fact your overlooking is that he broke that vow. What rights should he get?

 

So what you're insinuating is that if YOU were completely brain-dead and confined to a hospital bed, unable to perform even the most basic of human bodily functions, you would wish your wife to stay loyal at your side while your parents forced the doctors to keep your shell of a body alive? You wouldn't want her to move on with her life and be happy?

 

It seems that the only reasons to keep her alive were selfish ones.

[lukeskywalker1]

Originally posted by ET Warrior

So what you're insinuating is that if YOU were completely brain-dead and confined to a hospital bed, unable to perform even the most basic of human bodily functions, you would wish your wife to stay loyal at your side while your parents forced the doctors to keep your shell of a body alive? You wouldn't want her to move on with her life and be happy?

 

It seems that the only reasons to keep her alive were selfish ones.

 

 

I view it as a sin pal. If I were alive and my wife cheated me, yeah its a sin. Did I say leave me there to rot? No.

 

Im saying, he broke his marriage vows, he has no rights as to whether she lives or dies (too late now)

 

Besides, what were those vows?

 

Do you promise to love and cherish her, in sickness and in health, for richer for poorer, for better for worse, and forsaking all others, keep yourself only unto her, for so long as you both shall live?

 

Terry wasn't dead.

 

Like I said, he broke his wedding vows knowing fully that she was still alive. He forfeited any rights to the decision of her life.

 

 

After thinking about it more, I think those Bible chapters express God's point of view on this situation. Simple as that. I could be wrong. Anyone agree? Disagree... have something to say?

[El Sitherino]

She was being kept artificially alive, by all real standards she was dead.

 

And it seems to me god wanted her to die, otherwise he would have miraculously kept her alive without use of machines.

[Derc]

Originally posted by SkinWalker

Schiavo, 41, died 13 days after doctors removed the feeding tube that had kept her alive.

As far as I'm concerned, Terri Schiavo died 15 years ago.

 

And the media coverage? It's sickening. But I guess there is a quote to go with it:

 

"One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic." ~ Stalin

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1

Like I said, he broke his wedding vows knowing fully that she was still alive. He forfeited any rights to the decision of her life.

 

He didn't remarry as he was still married to Terri. Adultery isn't illegal unless you are in the military. He broke no laws. The very fact that he refused to abandon Terri demonstrates that he loves her. I would have divorced her and left her lifeless body for her parents to do as they wished were me.

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1

I view it as a sin pal. If I were alive and my wife cheated me, yeah its a sin. Did I say leave me there to rot? No.

 

Well, when I marry that is one thing my wife will know. If anything like that EVER happens to me, where I can be classified as a vegetable, she is to divorce me and find somebody else. (Hopefully she can get them to pull the plug on me first, that way no need for a divorce)

[Master_Ginn]

Has anyone watched the coverage soon after she passed? People were on their knees crying! I mean how many of those people there actually knew who terri Schiavo was? How much of it was just for show? I don't know but that really makes me angry when people do stuff like that.

[SkinWalker]

Over 1500 U.S. Service men and women have perished in Iraq. I wonder how many of these "caring citizens" cried for even one of them?

 

Tom DeLay made a comment that the state judicial figures that "thumbed their noses at Congress" would get what's coming to them by someone... just the kind of comment that some extremist nut needs to hear to set him off in a killing spree against judges... something we've seen several times in recent times already.

 

What an idiot DeLay is.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Over 1500 U.S. Service men and women have perished in Iraq. I wonder how many of these "caring citizens" cried for even one of them?

Exactly. I'd like to see them cry over that school shooting where the neo-nazi shot six people. Amazing how emotional people can get if there's some politics or money involved:mad: .

 

"One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic." ~ Stalin

Or "one death is a tragedy, 1,500 are a statistic":rolleyes: .

 

Contrary to the claims of many sources, I think Stalin's quote was "one death is a tragedy. A thousand death are a catastrophe. A million deaths is just statistics".

Stalin wasn't the nicest guy on Earth, but he was a good speaker, I suppose.

[toms]

Originally posted by ET Warrior

Well, when I marry that is one thing my wife will know. If anything like that EVER happens to me, where I can be classified as a vegetable, she is to divorce me and find somebody else. (Hopefully she can get them to pull the plug on me first, that way no need for a divorce)

 

Me too.

 

---------

 

He definately DID NOT commit bigotry, in either a legal or moral sense.

 

You could possibly argue that he committed adultery, by the strictest sense of the word, but many people wouldn't even hold that to be the case. His wife was to all intents and purposes dead, and surely she would have wished him to move on and have a happy life? I know that I would want my partner to move on if I ended up in terri's position.

 

He could have just moved on, got a divorce, and washed his hands of the whole problem (and saved himself loads of heartache, stress, legal battles and demonisation by extremists) but instead he chose to stick by what his wife wanted and fight for her to get it.

 

I'm sure he's made some bad decisions along the way, maybe said some stupid things and done some selfish things... we all do, especially when under emotional stress. However to have people with an extreme agenda go over every bit of your life and try and pick certain bits out to paint you as an evil person isn't something I would wish on anyone.

 

Of course, no one can truely know anyones true motivations except themselves, but surely it is up to god (if there is a god) to sort them out in the end? In which case i suspect the husband and parents are lessliekly to be going to hell than the priests, activists, politicians and reporters who have turned the whole thing into a circus for their own ends

[swphreak]

Good ol' Florida....

 

I like how the parents wanted to keep her alive in her horrible situation instead of letting her "move on to a better place." They are Christians aren't they? Oh well, it doesn't matter anymore.

 

It took ~7 years to make this decision? Jesus. I think people need to start putting this stuff in a living will when they turn 18 or something. The government should not have had to get involved :/

 

*shakes head*

[edlib]

Somewhere I read that Terri's parents had originally encouraged Michael to date other people a couple of years after her attack.

 

Now that has become the central argument in the case that he shouldn't have had any say in what happened to her.

 

It makes me wonder if they had planned it that way to try to get him out of the picture. But then maybe not.

 

If I find that article again I'll post the link.

 

I also read that there were numerous arguments over money between Terri's father and Michael.

 

But that's the big problem... all these biased, half-formed, hearsay reports that have been the backbone of the press coverage in this case is all that any of have to go on and base our opinions on. Almost nobody that has been interviewed in the case can truly be said to be objective, so all we are left with is people shouting thier opinions and deeply held beliefs at us, being reported as fact on the news.

 

I hate the idea that her parents have become almost sainted, while her husband has become totally villefied. They are all only people, with thier own flaws and failings common to us all, and I'm sure they both felt like they were following her wishes and doing what was best for her. I doubt that there were these sinister overriding agendas being played out as we have all been pushed to believe. It's just that thier beliefs on the matter were in conflict, and that's where the courts had to step in. It's really all there is to this.

 

The press and the politicians should never have gotten involved in such a personal, private family matter... but they did, and here we are.

[lukeskywalker1]

John Chapter 7, verse 24

Stop judging by the way things look, but judge by what is really right."

NCV

 

 

 

Of course, no one can truely know anyones true motivations except themselves, but surely it is up to god (if there is a god) to sort them out in the end? In which case i suspect the husband and parents are lessliekly to be going to hell than the priests, activists, politicians and reporters who have turned the whole thing into a circus for their own ends

 

 

Read my Bible quotes... it all catches up with everyone in the end. :-\

 

BTW, good works and bad deeds don't decide your fate.

 

Check it out:

 

John 3 (New International Version)

New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

 

 

 

John 3

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus

1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”

 

4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!”

 

5Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

 

9“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

 

10“You are Israel's teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man. 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

 

16“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”

 

NIV

 

 

 

 

While I was there, I found something... interesting:

 

http://bible.com/answers/aeuthanasia.html

 

It explains God's viewpoint on euthanasia, suicide, murder.. etc. Of course, you'll likley scrub it off as a biased, unreasonable, and irrational source.

 

 

Scripture taken from the HOLY BIBLE, NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION®. Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society. Used by permission of Zondervan. All rights reserved.

 

John 3 Bible Link

[El Sitherino]

Bah.

[kipperthefrog]

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1

It explains God's viewpoint on euthanasia, suicide, murder.. etc. Of course, you'll likley scrub it off as a biased, unreasonable, and irrational source.

 

 

 

Looks like he did!

You can say ANYTHING is baised propaganda. Guys here says that about anything that don't agree with them.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

"God" is written with a capital "G". Other than that, the card rules:D.

 

The Bible may be a good read, but it's just one more set of opinions. I'm a religious person, but I know for a fact that the Bible was written by a group of Men.

 

The Pope had a feeding tube put in, and he can't talk....

 

Let's starve the pope!

But he isn't a vegetable without a working brain who'll never wake up. He still sees, feels, hears, smells, and understands. Bad analogy.

[IG-64]

Bigamy*

 

Whoops

 

 

This is exactly why I hate the senate. Skinwalker's post in response to mine was a bunch of creatively-worded flames. He's basically doing his best to shove my own words in my face and call me an idiot. Probably just so he can "soften me up" and win this pointless debate.

 

Btw, this is the last time i'm coming to this crappy forum.

[Tyrion]

Originally posted by IG-64

Bigamy*

 

Whoops

 

 

This is exactly why I hate the senate. Skinwalker's post in response to mine was a bunch of creatively-worded flames. He's basically doing his best to shove my own words in my face and call me an idiot. Probably just so he can "soften me up" and win this pointless debate.

 

Btw, this is the last time i'm coming to this crappy forum.

 

Oh comon, you just don't like the Senate 'cause you suck at the Internets.

 

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by IG-64

This is exactly why I hate the senate. Skinwalker's post in response to mine was a bunch of creatively-worded flames.

 

I apologize if you were offended and, admittedly, I was a bit harsh, but I probably wouldn't have been if not for the quote you attributed to Michael Schiavo. I just found it irresponsible to post such an anecdote that is already harsh just to get your point across.

 

Originally posted by IG-64

Btw, this is the last time i'm coming to this crappy forum.

 

Too bad.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle

"God" is written with a capital "G". Other than that, the card rules:D.

Maybe to you, but I don't believe to address "him" as a proper noun, therefore I do not capitalize.

 

Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle

The Bible may be a good read, but it's just one more set of opinions. I'm a religious person, but I know for a fact that the Bible was written by a group of Men.

Indeed, and it is not a valid arguement because the existence of god and that the book as his word can neither be proven or disproven.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Now the question is, what kind of presedence (spelling?) has this set?

 

The next time this is going to be decided for someone, will the debate be more or less tame? Will the "Guardians of Life"( ) be more resigned or even more fanatical?

 

Terri's death has definetly set off some emotional stir, but it's also created a presedence. So I think that legally, it'll be easier to put dead people to sleep now. Maybe there'll even be moves made towards doing it in a more primitive and frowned-upon way than pulling their IV tubes?

 

The protesters have no doubt not donned their tunnel vision patches for the last time, though...

[Spider AL]

Or so you think. No one can be 100% sure.

 

From what I have heard on the news, she didn't have a will in writing. Nothing else can be proven true.

Nothing else... like the existence of God, for instance.

 

Schiavo's physical shell was allowed to expire because the courts (fifteen years too late) deemed the case for withdrawal of therapy TO BE PROVEN.

[swphreak]

Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle

Now the question is, what kind of presedence (spelling?) has this set?

 

Of course, this can easily be solved by people writing a quick living will, or something real short in the event of a tragedy and what to do in "x" situation. Then no one can argue against it saying "That's not what 'n' person wanted!" ect.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Don't be too sure. Wills can work both ways. It might make it easier to put someone to sleep, but what about the people who write a will stating that they want to be kept artificially alive, Terri Schiavo-style, indefinetly? Does the hospital have to waste millions of dollars on those?

 

And even if the will from person x says that he/she wants to die in the event of braindeath, I suspect people will still try to make the will void or to override it in some other way. "Ah, she was probably just depressed when she wrote it, surely that can't have been what she wanted. I knew her, she wouldn't want that! Overrule that will!"

 

See my point?

[Rad Blackrose]

Originally posted by InsaneSith

Bah.

 

Hold on, I can do better.

 

There we go:

 

link pulled --Jae