Graphics engine for KOTOR 3

[noghri_assasin]

Sure a new engine could be really sweet but all I think they need to do is upgrade the engine they aleady have. So they could do whatever they want. All I'm going to do is get it and beat it. =P

[witchfinder]

How hard would it be for developers to modify their current engine to work on a next-gen console? Aren't different engines developed specifically for certain types of hardware? So if they were making it for the Xbox 360, wouldn't it be easier to utilise/modify a different engine?

[RevanA4]

um next gen consoles are reverse compatable it think so it wouldn't be that hard for them to do it

 

(someone plz correct me If I am wrong)

[lukeiamyourdad]

What does changing the game engine have to do with backward compatibility?

[M1911A1]

I would just like to see something that would permit the use of my GeForce ti 4200!

 

And I do think the current engine is way outdated even for K2.

[stingerhs]

well, modifying a graphics engine to take advantage of a lot of new features like normal and bump mapping, as well as the latest shader and lighting effects, just sounds like a lot of work. i don't make myself out to be an expert or anything, but i think that those kind of changes would probably entail modifying the source code for the graphics engine.

 

IMHO, just adding on new features would probably bog the game down to an unplayable level due to how inefficent the graphics already run.

 

that's why i stand by my earlier statement that Kotor 3 needs to use a new graphics engine.

[Rok_stoned]

but the creator are paid for their job and are supposed to do their absolute best and earn their paycheck not do what is required to make a mediocre game.

[IndianaSolo]

I wouldn't even mind if they keep the current game engine as long as it is maximized and the bugs are removed, as long as the story is top notch and the game isn't rushed by Lucasarts.

[Rok_stoned]

good luck lucas arts will warp it to get as much short term money as possible

[IndianaSolo]

Yes and no. Lucasarts seems to have gone through some restructuring with someone new running the show (or so I was told). Hopefully they change their philosophy on rushing games before they are complete.

[Rok_stoned]

^^^where did u hear this?

[stingerhs]

acutally, you can read about it in the news section on http://www.starwarsknights.com, as well as source links for the news.

[Ztalker]

I read somewhere luicasarts was trying to make K3 with an internal team. But the team f*cked up and got fired. So Lucasarts got back to the source. Bioware. Bioware released Jade Empire recently, and was contracted to make K-3. Since they use the J-E engine, you will have more direc-tcontrol. This is the original message, it says they will use the J-A engine:

 

"As a leading representative of BioWare Corp. given the mamoth task of publicising the next in the series of Knights Of The Old Republic games (KOTOR 3), I have permission to confirm that this title is now several months underway.

 

This may come as a surprise to those who are currently reading this, as it was previously believed that the KOTOR staff had been cut from the LucasArts project. I can also confirm that the KOTOR 3 team is now officially on LucasArts budget and eagerly developing what we hope to be a 'must have' title on as of yet unconfirmed Next Generation platforms for 2006.

 

With more details to be released in the coming weeks, 3 points concerning KOTOR 3 can be posted:

 

1)The story takes place in a period roughly 14 years after KOTOR 2: The Sith Lords.

 

2)There will be new characters, equipment, classes, mini games and an entirely new combat system based on the interface used on Jade Empire.

 

3)The plot follows directly from the last game, plunging the galaxy into war with the True Sith.

 

This has yet to be posted onto the BioWare official website (http://www.bioware.com) as the pages are currently serving as a front to keep viewers occupied during a drastic remodelling process of the entire site.

 

As previously stated, this message is soon to be posted around the internet, and new details are to be released soon.

[ChAiNz.2da]

I read somewhere luicasarts was trying to make K3 with an internal team....

This is pure rumor, just re-written to fit into the JE theme

 

It's already been abolished here:

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=150539

 

Bioware is busy with there own private projects, namely Dragon Age...

[Ztalker]

Sorry, didn't see that thread

 

*sigh*

 

Back to the start, then...

I'd say Lucasarts can't use the old engine anymore. It's just to buggy. People walking through wals, bad collition detection, and just to few chances of making unique parts.

I'd say they use the J-E engine. It features a more action-packed fighting-engine, and it featured better landscapes, hills etc. I think they can do a better job using the J-E engine, then relying on a engine that had it's best days in 1998.

[TheLostWookie]

Kotor Source! It'd be so cool to see the entire cast redone in that engine

 

Bastila and Mira, as previously stated would be as sharp as Alyx

Jolee would be like Dr. Eli Vance! except much more senile and bitter, and less hair.

Carth Onasi would look like Barney Calhoun

 

Anyway, given how well Source does lip-sync and that Kotor has tons of dialogue, it would be pretty great to see K3 using Source.

[Ztalker]

Yeah..let's put a shooter engine to a RPG-game....

 

It woudn't work....shooter-engins focus on massive details and firt person action. It generate massive environnements, and no big database etc.

 

I'd say use the J-E engine. It is the tweaked version of the Kotor engine.....so it can only turn out better....also, J-E used a more-direct control. Would be nice for kotor....

[lukeiamyourdad]

Yeah..let's put a shooter engine to a RPG-game....

 

It woudn't work....shooter-engins focus on massive details and firt person action. It generate massive environnements, and no big database etc.

 

One name: Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines.

 

Besides, what would stop anyone from modifying an FPS engine for an RPG. It'll be hard I don't doubt it, but it's not undoable.

[fresnosmokey02]

They will obviously update the graphics. That much is a given. I want them to keep the same interface (game buttons/menus) however. The simplicity and ease of use makes for a more immersed game.

[Desolation]

and destroy all humans an action game used the havok, the same engine used for halo an fps

Havok is a physics engine though. Bungie (developer) made their own graphics engine for Halo. Whoever makes KotOR III should do what Bungie did to their Halo engine, and just completely upgrade it (like Halo 2). That way you keep the same feeling for things, but it just has a more nicer, and updated look. So my opinion is to keep the same engine they used, and just upgrade it for next-gen standards.

 

Obsidian didn't upgrade it at all for TSL.

[Prime]

Obsidian didn't upgrade it at all for TSL.

Well, they did add some features to it.

[Vladimir-Vlada]

How about using Source engine, or the Battlefield 2 engine. Or maybe try a mix of Odyseey and Soruce, maybe it would work. (HE HE HE. Enemies fly around when a bomb booms at their feet. )

[Darkkender]

After having spent my summer re-learning programming in C++ and having about 12 different books related to 3D game development of one sort or another I thought I would throw out a small nugget.

 

Whatever engine they use be it the Odyssey engine or another engine wouldn't be such a major issue. The reason is all they have to do is continue to improve upon the resources that you import into the engine such as the model files. For example Obsidian made changes to the model file however it was mostly in format internally. However they could have improved the model itself and that would have improved the graphics for the game world.

 

Now the only thing I can imagine being a problem is how the game engine processes the 3D graphics. For example setting up the engine to process all of the graphics on the video card leads to an overtaxed video card and a CPU that is bored or the opposite factor as well. Also if they setup there functions to only process a limited number of meshes that would lead to needing to make only minor changes within the engine itself but not tossing it out entirely.

 

I noticed people mentioning different FPS engines earlier and others getting upset saying not to use them. However FPS engines provide a solid 3D environment it is simply a matter of the perspective you program into the final game that gives you the First Person View not the engine itself. Or they may have simply included a library dedicated to First person view in the final engine but it could be swapped out with a 3rd person view library.

 

There is actually alot of reusability available in the Odyssey engine as it was developed using DirectX 9.0 which is still pretty current.

[Ztalker]

@ Lukeiamyoudad: You are right, but they need an Engine that supports the D&D rules-set. I don't know if SOurce supports that....

 

@ Rest: I don't know much about moddeling etc, but personally, i don't want Kotor 3 to be a shooter-like game. We already have Jedi Academy-series. I hope they choose the nicesest engine that can support the D&D rules set. I thinks they will turn out to get Jade Empire Engine.

[stingerhs]

Whatever engine they use be it the Odyssey engine or another engine wouldn't be such a major issue. The reason is all they have to do is continue to improve upon the resources that you import into the engine such as the model files. For example Obsidian made changes to the model file however it was mostly in format internally. However they could have improved the model itself and that would have improved the graphics for the game world.

but the biggest gripe i have with that is that the Odyssey engine isn't optimized to give you good framerates. if there is something to be said about FPS graphics engines, most are designed to give you a high framerate without sacrificing any visual quality, which is something the Odyssey engine currently lacks.

I noticed people mentioning different FPS engines earlier and others getting upset saying not to use them. However FPS engines provide a solid 3D environment it is simply a matter of the perspective you program into the final game that gives you the First Person View not the engine itself. Or they may have simply included a library dedicated to First person view in the final engine but it could be swapped out with a 3rd person view library.

 

There is actually alot of reusability available in the Odyssey engine as it was developed using DirectX 9.0 which is still pretty current.

well, the Odyssey engine would need signifigant modification to bring it to the quality of a current-gen FPS engine. and it is much easier to make minor adjustments to the camera files than it is to make large restructuring to the engine itself.

 

now don't take this the wrong way. if the devs do decide to just simply upgrade the Odyssey engine to utilize more modern features available in the current-gen engines and optimize it for high framerates, i won't have a problem with it. that just means they'd either have to put more time into the development process or put more people in the process.

 

and thanks for putting this debate on its head, Darkkender.