SWBF II = Messed Up! ("realism" debate)

[TK-8252]

They can do whatever they want with the game.

 

But should they?

 

What do they gain by not staying true to Star Wars? I mean, it's a Star Wars game, so common sense tells me that a game based on Star Wars should be, well, true to Star Wars.

[Micahc]

This game is hardly realistic; and its hard to make it as realistic as possible without changing a few things (adding heavey weapons units for example) but the problem here is that the devs aren't even trying. It's as if they figured it would be to hard to add in a remotly realistic element. If there is anything realistic that isn't the blantantly obvious (AT-AT's are big) but even then it isn't up to what it should be, heck AT-AT's should be bigger! There are many things that bug me (Battle droids being healed by bacta), but to put it bluntly this game is a far cry from realistic and from what I've seen ton's of fans are going to be dissapointed

[Redtech]

Majin Revan. Guess you=win today. It tends to be my feelings on BFront as well. After all, while the films never showed an Imprial Bazzookaman, I'm pretty convinced with the style of the one they have.

 

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Also, Micahc, if the AT-AT was any bigger, it'd be too big to manage. It already has trouble fitting in Hoth, let alone Rhen Var. Okay, you could say, make the maps bigger, but would you want a map so big it takes minutes to cross? BFront can't currently display so many bots that a map that big wouldn't look empty. It'd be like Geonosis. Boring as hell (if you're CIS).

[Kurgan]

I think this sort of thing happens because, like Star Trek, when you want to make a big "war game" you realize that from the movies, they just don't give you all the "units" you'd normally expect to find in a military simulation.

 

Now granted, you could say they're forcing 20th/21st century Earth standards of what warfare is onto this fictional sci fi galaxy, but still.

 

With that in mind, it isn't surprising that so many games just make up loads of stuff to fill in these percieved "gaps."

 

Now I think the point being made here by others is that they should have used the EU materials that have often tried to fill in those gaps already as the "ready-made solutions." In that case I can only say the developers just chose to use their own imaginations instead, or (gasp) perhaps they just didn't think to hire a few experts on the EU to advise them.

 

On the other hand, one could say that not every Star Wars fan is so "nerdy" that they know every detail of the EU and would insist on those details being used in the game instead of something completely made up. Perhaps they thought "well since we're going beyond the movies anyway, most fans won't know the difference." Some fans here may find that insulting, I imagine, but that's another theory. We've been arguing that they didn't even get the movie stuff right, so there you go... perhaps they're casual fans, appealing to other casual fans?

[Vagabond]

I agree with Kurgan - when there are gaps that cannot be filled by existing EU material, then new material should be created for game balancing issues.

 

However, I do agree with Majin Revan that certain details were bungled, such as Imperial capital ships shooting green, and Rebel capital ships shooting red. There is no reason for those inconsistencies other than lack of quality control.

 

I can summarize my feelings on this issue by stating that wherever possible, the game should be made to match the movies. When a deviation is needed, new material should be created that matches as closely as possible to what one might expect from the movies.

[Lord Vader 89]

All right this game is good and all but some of the stuff just ignores the movies completely.

 

1. First off, why the hell does the Imperial Officer look like that? I was anxious to play as those officers we see in the movies but instead I just get a suped up AT-ST pilot. And what the hell is up with that stupid sonic pistol?

 

2. Grievous' Manga Guards. I know I don't have to say anything more for the people who have played the beta, but where the hell is his staff?

 

3. When did the Clones and Droids fight on the Tantive IV, and when did the Galactic Civil War take place on Utapau? And when were Boba Fett and Han on Utapau, and when did Grievous and Yoda fight on the Tantive IV.

 

4. The starfighters are done wrong. The TIE Fighter and TIE Interceptors do not have torpedoes. I'm not sure about the TIE Interceptor but I am positive that the TIE Fighter doesn't have torpedoes. The TIE Bomber is done very well though surprisingly.

 

5. The turrets, cannons, and guns of the ships are supposed to be controlled from the bridge. The Bridge that we see in the movies. Instead the control room is right next to the hanger. WTF? This applies to both the Rebel and Imperial Capitol ships. Where did the bridges we saw for the Star Destroyer in the movies and the Mon Calamari Bridge where Ackbar talks from in ROTJ go?

 

6. Since when did Star Destroyers have side hangers?

 

7. The half sphere on the bottom of the Star Destroyer does not control life support. It's the reactor.

 

8. Star Destroyers have 4 E-Web Lasers on each side, not 2.

 

9. Turrets are not supposed to make that type of sound. They sound like a

friggin chain gun. WTF is up with that?

 

10. The Sentinel Class Shuttle. Now is it just me or did they mess this ship up horriblely? First off, it's supposed to be bigger than that. Second off the front side does not look like that at all. In fact the whole ship is supposed to look different. It looks more like the Theta-Class Shuttle than the Sentinel Class Shuttle.

 

11. Why the **** do the Rebels have a Clone Gunship?

 

12. Even more continuity errors. There are eras on maps where a battle from that era never took place, and heroes that do not belong on certain maps. Palpatine was never in the first Death Star. Mace Windu is supposed to be dead by the time Anakin invades the Jedi Temple, yet he's the hero for the Jedi side. The Clone Wars never took place in the Death Star. Hell the Death Star wasn't even near completion. Luke had a blue lightsaber on Hoth, not a green one. And when did anybody, the CIS, Clones, Rebels, or Imperials, fight on Dagobah? There are way more continuity errors than this in the full product. This is just based of the beta and some screenshots from the full version. It pisses me off when they ignore the movies like this.

 

13: Lasers. Lasers. Lasers. They messed it up again. Not only is the speed slow like in the first one, the colors are still messed up.

 

14. What happened to the Star Destroyer's Underside Hanger? You can't even go in there it's blocked off.

 

Now I'm not saying that they should just stay to the movies and only the movies. They should use the EU too to fill in some gaps. In fact I'm glad they used the EU to do things like give the Imperials a frigate, the Victory Class Frigate. And it doesn't contradict with anything. But they shouldn't do something that contradicts the EU or the movies and create something out of thin air, like Mace being at the Jedi Temple when he was dead by that time in the movie. The game should make you feel as if you are really in the Star Wars Universe, and this game, fun as it may be, fails at that. They should use stuff from the movies and the EU so that we feel that we are in the actual universe. I do hope they at least fix half of these problems up, or that some of them are mistakes like the imperials having the Theta-Class Shuttle.

[Darth Andrew]

3. When did the Clones and Droids fight on the Tantive IV, and when did the Galactic Civil War take place on Utapau? And when were Boba Fett and Han on Utapau, and when did Grievous and Yoda fight on the Tantive IV.

If the sides were limited to certain maps, the game would become more boring like as in Battlefront I. Sometimes, I just wanted to drive an AT-AT on Geonosis. Variety (even if it ruins continuity) is the spice of life.

4. The starfighters are done wrong. The TIE Fighter and TIE Interceptors do not have torpedoes. I'm not sure about the TIE Interceptor but I am positive that the TIE Fighter doesn't have torpedoes.

On this I agree with you. Couldn't the developers give the Interceptor more powerful lasers instead of missiles to balance it out?

7. The half sphere on the bottom of the Star Destroyer does not control life support. It controls shields along with the two spheres on top of the bridge.

Actually, the sphere is where the reactor of the Star Destroyer is.

It pisses me off when they ignore the movies like this.

If everything was based off the movies, there would be no snipers, heavy weapons, etc. Since when have the Rebels ever had dedicated combat tanks? We never saw those in the movies, and yet they are in to balance the game out and make gameplay more interesting. If the game was based solely on the movies and nothing else, combat would become boring and repetitive.

[Jan Gaarni]

1. I refer you to General Veers.

 

3. That is not the point though. The point is to have fun.

 

4. The TIE fighters (in general) have been known to be able to be mounted an external rocketlauncher rack below the cockpit.

 

5. Where did you read that?

 

6. True

 

7. Er, no, it's not life support, but no, it's not shielding either. You'll find the main reactor behind that dish.

 

8. Star Destroyers have no E-Web lasers, period.

 

9. Yes, there are no chainguns on the star destroyers.

 

11. Devs got lazy, or it's just a placeholder for the Beta. Who knows.

 

12. SWBF2 is not supposed to be 100% accurate to Star Wars event-wise, but to be fun and challenging.

[MachineCult]

This game isn't meant to be totally accurate to the movies, if it was then the game wouldn't be very interesting. It's a Battlefield-like game BASED ON star wars. Republic commando is an FPS based on star wars, thats hardly accurate either but like Battlefront, it isn't meant to be.

[McCusto]

I agree with you, the turrets are messed up. Since when did the Y-Wing have a Chaingun turret? And I thought the Star Destroyer had green lasers, not orange. And I thought the TIE Bomber had green lasers, too. Not orange. Everything else to me is fine. All they need to fix are the lasers and turrets.

 

 

EDIT: Along with since when did the Star Destroyer had side hangers, since when did the Republic Star Destroyers have side hangers?

[Jan Gaarni]

Victory class frigate?!?

 

What, isn't a Victory Class Star Destroyer not enough?

 

They need to introduce yet another type of ship that sounds almost like the VSD?

 

And shouldn't it be time soon to stop creating more and more ships? It just makes it harder and harder to justify the inclusions of them.

 

Anyway, here's what I had to say earlier:

1. I refer you to General Veers.

3. That is not the point though. The point is to have fun.

4. The TIE fighters (in general) have been known to be able to be mounted an external rocketlauncher rack below the cockpit.

5. Where did you read that?

6. True

7. Correct ... this time.

8. Star Destroyers have no E-Web lasers, period.

9. Yes, there are no chainguns on the star destroyers.

11. Devs got lazy, or it's just a placeholder for the Beta. Who knows.

12. SWBF2 is not supposed to be 100% accurate to Star Wars event-wise, but to be fun and challenging.

13. Agreed.

14. Perhaps they think of us as stupid and that we can't possibly manouver into such a large area successfully and land.

[Atkins]

I havnt got time to read all the post above (Nearly finished downloading the Beta) so sorry if i posted something that someone has already posted.

 

The Heavy Trooper, is similar to commander Bacraa but not the same, if you notice Commander Bacraa has lil blue and red on his armour, where as the heavy trooper dont.

 

All the big mods for Battlefront II should get together and make one big mod called, "The Movies Mod" basically you lot just fix everything the way it is in the movies, and get laods of downloads.

[Lord Vader 89]

^ I agree, and theyir first fix should be making the hanger of the Star Destroyer on the bottom. (hint hint)

[nightmarenny]

I havnt got time to read all the post above (Nearly finished downloading the Beta) so sorry if i posted something that someone has already posted.

 

The Heavy Trooper, is similar to commander Bacraa but not the same, if you notice Commander Bacraa has lil blue and red on his armour, where as the heavy trooper dont.

 

All the big mods for Battlefront II should get together and make one big mod called, "The Movies Mod" basically you lot just fix everything the way it is in the movies, and get laods of downloads.

They should have used episode three's rocket trooper. Those guys were cool. I liked their launchers.

 

To the guy bitching about continuity. I don't like you. Why the hell do you want to prevent me from taking a ride on an AT-AT on Genosis? Or use Boba to take han on Utapua?

 

Also on your Rebel gunship complaint the rebels are known for grabbing what ever the could for their army. They were desprete and just cause you didn't see one being used doesn't mean they wern't(I bet a few smart generals still used them on the impirial front as well.

[Kurgan]

One area I'm very glad they didn't go for movie accuracy was in terms of the Battle Droid voices. They used the "lower pitched" deeper voices reminiscent of those in TPM and AOTC, rather than the high pitched, chipmunk-esque voices of ROTS. That part of the movie really annoyed me in places. Wasn't this the big serious PG-13 flick that was supposed to be all edgy and dark? Weren't the battle droids already big enough laughingstocks without taking them down even further?

 

In any case, this type of inaccuracey is perfectly fine by me. You hear that devs? Don't make the Battle Droid voices like in ROTS, they are great how they are now, thanks again!

[Redtech]

I so agree. They're called SUPER battle droids. I think Maddox has made a point on why Epsiode 3 shouldn't really be described as a PG anyway. But yeah, the CIS at least have that robotic meaness in the games.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Yeah, even if battledroids could never be described as "terrifiying" they shouldn't have to sound like cartoon characters on helium.

[Blackrider27]

well im also mad that they didn't put tameara morrisons clone trooper voice they sound stupid

[CidCaldensfey]

I think not having everything to be exactly to detail with the movies is okay if it's not possible or extremely hard to do. It's okay though if there are some differences, to me. The creation of new classes to 'fill in the gaps' is required but this should be done in a manner where it'd make sense... Randomly creating weapons and the like which were not actually possible doesn't seem like a good idea...

 

So I am sort of satisfied with the current classes and all, however, I think more work needs to be done as far as making things a bit accurate as to what they are 'historically' to the Star Wars universe, not making them based off of the movies.

[clonearcman]

I like what the "super" battle droids are supposed to be designated: The B2. It atleast sounds better than super battle droids.

 

When I watched ROTS I burst out laughing because of the droids voices. It was kinda funny in the movies but its stupid in a video game.

[nightmarenny]

I think not having everything to be exactly to detail with the movies is okay if it's not possible or extremely hard to do. It's okay though if there are some differences, to me. The creation of new classes to 'fill in the gaps' is required but this should be done in a manner where it'd make sense... Randomly creating weapons and the like which were not actually possible doesn't seem like a good idea...

 

So I am sort of satisfied with the current classes and all, however, I think more work needs to be done as far as making things a bit accurate as to what they are 'historically' to the Star Wars universe, not making them based off of the movies.

Are you talking about the lightning gun? That is just rediculus. Just because its sci-fi doesn't mean that crap makes sense.

[zerted]

Are you talking about the lightning gun? That is just rediculus. Just because its sci-fi doesn't mean that crap makes sense.

Here is one of <b>many</b> companies which are making laser based plasma weapons:

http://www.ionatron.com/default.aspx?id=7

 

 

'Lightning guns' are real and do exist. They are not science fiction.

[CidCaldensfey]

Theres also some other things being made like a gauss rifle which really does fire projectiles by using magnets. Sort of like some of the new generation rollercoasters coming out.

 

I think theres even an Ion Cannon which was made to shoot down nuclear warheads, but I've only seen it once. So it might be fake.

 

As for the lightning gun, I do think that is kind of ridiculous. I don't really know how, ah, useful a gun with short-ranged capabilities would be in a firefight as those presented in the Star Wars universe. The only possible application is for a heavy unit, which is armored, to force the enemy to engage in relative close combat so that the ranged forces, on the same side as those having to be sent in for close-combat, would be able to advance while the enemy concentrates on those up close.

 

Though I agree, an lightning gun in Star Wars is kind of ridiculous. It's powered by the Dark Side!

 

Maybe if the jetpack commandos had flamethrowers. That would be a little more practical.

__________________________

 

Also Zerted, that is a very interesting find. How did you come across this? I know that the United States was working, and showed off mind you, this laser beam weapon last year. It was this giant red dish turret which was mounted on a structure and actually could shoot down artillery shells.

[Redtech]

Wait a mo, imagine you're in a jetpack at least 200 metres up, or some other cool height. Now, flamethrowers have a notoriously short range, of say, 10 metres at best without using liquid fuel (which is affected by gravity). Now, try burning something at distance.

 

So why would flamethowers AND a Jetpack be cool? It's a melee weapon to a long range class!

 

Anyway, I've said it a lot of times, but I don't like "Realism" in games. Real life sucks. That's why we play games. If Star Wars was realistic, then Bush'd be the emperor and the CIS would all have Muslim accents and the Maganguards would be wearing turbans. (I know Hindus wear Turbans, not Muslims, but heck, how many "haters" can tell the difference?)

 

On a serious note, realism generally sucks because you can go overboard and have weapons shot out of hands, injuries that cripple, the effects of stamina and hormones as well as pain, fear...At the end of the day, I don't want to be controlling a clone trooper who randomly spasses out because I haven't "watered" him recently and spontaneously gets angry seeing teamates killed, gets shot in the foot and so collapses in agony for the rest of the game.

 

If I wanted to play as someone who was as fragile as I was, I'd go play "real war".

 

Take Doom3. Haven't played it, but despite "realistic lighting" why does eveyone I know complain that it's only because there is near no light at all? Seems their realism hampered their game design.

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I prefer the term "convincing". If I'm convinced that "hey that's sensible" then that's all that matters. The author of irregularwebcomic.net has a penchant for disproving Star Wars physics, but in the films, it's convincing that a planet with no arable land could exist (Coruscant) or that a planet could be destroyed by an object smaller than it (Death Star), but NOT realistic.

 

It's like the weapons, they're not 'realistic' even to Star Wars, but I'm convinced that in their context, they have a place. Even units and classes are designed so that you can think 'well if I had a tie fighter, I want to be able to bomb the shiznit out of rebels as well'.

[CidCaldensfey]

Wait a mo, imagine you're in a jetpack at least 200 metres up, or some other cool height. Now, flamethrowers have a notoriously short range, of say, 10 metres at best without using liquid fuel (which is affected by gravity). Now, try burning something at distance.

 

So why would flamethowers AND a Jetpack be cool? It's a melee weapon to a long range class!

 

Thats the point. It would force close-combat fighting to a class which already has an advantage--the jetpack.

 

Giving them a weapon with greater range would ruin the whole purpose of a jetpack if you could just stand from someplace far away and shoot. The whole purpose of the jet pack is to offer more mobility, but whats the use if the mobility isn't required due to the weapons being offered to that class?

 

Besides, haven't you seen the movie 'The Running Man' ?