Lynk Former Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 And of course we all know the henchmen aren't that important, if they die they can easily be replaced. Hell even Vader was replacable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 ....@ Ashley: I think it's best to watch a movie from start to finish properly, it is usually how people watch movies Well except for porn. listen to him, he speaks from experience ! but seriously, Aash - the first sequence of ROTS is amazing, you found that opening sequence boring ?? mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 actually i've never watched a porn movie before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreenGoblin Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Uh...because, generally, when you are the puppet master you have henchmen that do the work. Plus it's Star Wars, the correct question would be "Why the **** not?". Because it lacks dramatic punch when the henchmen start to get killed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 But it lacks dramatic punch if no one fairly important dies within a single movie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Because it lacks dramatic punch when the henchmen start to get killed off. Well... they're henchmen, they aren't really supposed to leave a dramatic punch. Henchmen are there (in any movie) to kill and be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreenGoblin Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 But it lacks dramatic punch if no one fairly important dies within a single movie... Not true, nobody actually died in The Empire Strikes Back and its often considered to be the best in the series. Well... they're henchmen, they aren't really supposed to leave a dramatic punch. Henchmen are there (in any movie) to kill and be killed. Allow me to clarify because I used henchmen when I should have clarified what I meant. There are two kinds of villains. There's the soldier villain: physical threat to the hero and the mastermind villain: mental threat. Palpatine is of course the mastermind and Vader played the soldier in the Original Trilogy. They both a do a bit of each but largely fall into these roles. In the Prequels Palpatine is still the mastermind but we have three soldier villains which in and of itself isn't a bad thing but the problem here is that Maul, Dooku and Grevious all get introduced and killed rather quickly before they can really solidify their roles as big-bad baddies and make a real impact. For example, sure Maul killed Qui-Gon and Dooku sliced Anakin's hand off but really anyone could have done these things and resulted in the same effect, largely because we knew little about them. On the other hand Vader HAD to be Luke's father, it just wouldn't have been nearly dramatic or effective if it had been somebody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Maul, Dooku and Grevious all get introduced and killed rather quickly before they can really solidify their roles as big-bad baddies and make a real impact. That's the point, they aren't big-bad baddies, they're merely pawns being sacrificed. Anakin is like the queen you lost in chess, you want it and you get it in your grasp (Maul's sacrifice) but lose it again, you sacrifice another pawn(Dooku) and you're closer to keeping the queen, you sacrifice another pawn (Grievous)... finally the queen is back and you've got a hold. For example, sure Maul killed Qui-Gon and Dooku sliced Anakin's hand off but really anyone could have done these things and resulted in the same effect, largely because we knew little about them. We didn't need to know a lot about them, they were a means to an end for Palpatine, they held no more importance than Nute Gunray. On the other hand Vader HAD to be Luke's father, it just wouldn't have been nearly dramatic or effective if it had been somebody else. He still woulda been Luke's father, how he came to be Vader(if at all), would be another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 That's the point, they aren't big-bad baddies, they're merely pawns being sacrificed. Anakin is like the queen you lost in chess, you want it and you get it in your grasp (Maul's sacrifice) but lose it again, you sacrifice another pawn(Dooku) and you're closer to keeping the queen, you sacrifice another pawn (Grievous)... finally the queen is back and you've got a hold. That's a good analogy. You're right, they were just pawns used by Sidious. It wasn't a big deal to him if they were destroyed. He obviously didn't care that Dooku died especially We didn't need to know a lot about them, they were a means to an end for Palpatine, they held no more importance than Nute Gunray.Well.... I don't know about that, but I see your meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobQel-Droma Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Pretty much what Insane Sith said. Dooku, Greivous, and Maul were all pawns in Sidious's game. He was really after Anakin, the other three were just placeholders and easily disposed of; A fact which those three failed to realize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Not true, nobody actually died in The Empire Strikes Back and its often considered to be the best in the series. Han was incased in carbonite, that's not death but as far as people knew back then he was a deadman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Stormtroopers #1,#3,#6, and #18 gave their lives and you say no one died?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Besides, who thinks ESB was the best one of the three? I need to speak with these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I dunno, the "I am your father" moment is pretty powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobQel-Droma Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I think the most powerful, emotional moment was probably the "I am your father" and the "I hate you!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 But ESB sucked compared to ROTJ. ROTJ had the Ewoks, for one. What kind of person doesn't like Ewoks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hallucination Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 But the second half of your post is true, isn't it? I know enhancements isn't the right word, but if he didn't have the droid body he would mostly be organs probably. You caught me there. I meant because instead of but. I probably got it wrong was because I was laughing at the thought of jedi running from a pair of lungs chasing after them. @The doctor: ESB is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edlib Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Stormtroopers #1,#3,#6, and #18 gave their lives and you say no one died?! I can think of at least 3 Imperial Officers as well. But ESB sucked compared to ROTJ. ROTJ had the Ewoks, for one. What kind of person doesn't like Ewoks? What the hell are you smoking,.. and where can I get some? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 The ewoks ruined RotJ. Not that it wasn't still good, but it would have been much better without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobQel-Droma Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 What!? The ewoks are right up there with Wookiees. What didn't you like about them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hallucination Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 ^^Because they're short, furry, @$$-ugly and give me a headache when they talk. I think thats a good reason, don't you? P.S. That also describes Yoda. Except the furry part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Ewoks rule. RoTJ is the better movie, but ESB is easily my favourite after RoTS. There's "the better movie" and then there's favourite movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montnoir Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 ESB is the better movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Ewoks rule.Bah. RoTJ is the better movie, but ESB is easily my favourite after RoTS. There's "the better movie" and then there's favourite movie. Yeah, I know what you mean. RotS is probably my favorite movie even outside of SW movies, but I know it's not the best movie I've seen. I just enjoy it the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Ell Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 In regards to Darth Maul's and Count Dooku's short-lived villainy, I thought that their deaths demonstrate just how high the price is when one is the Sith apprentice instead of the Sith master. They weren't quick enough at taking out their master and replacing him and so they ended up being hack jobs or, as Sithy said, pawns in the grand game instead of the king. Dooku was trying to find a way but knew he would need help so he tried telling Obi-Wan about the existence of Darth Sidious in the small hope that Obi-Wan would ally with his cause. But like I said, my take on the whole thing is that a Sith apprentice better be quick about taking out his/her master or the master will find a way to get rid of the apprentice and take another. Personally, I would have liked to have seen Darth Maul continue on in the movies because I thought he was a great villain but alas that would have been difficult for him to do with the top half of his body separated from the lower half... RotS is a great movie. I didn't really buy into the scene where Anakin decided to pledge himself to Sidious nor did I think the infamous (IMO) "NOOOOOOO!!!" was very convincing when Vader found out that Padme was dead. Neither scene felt right to me. But all things considered it was still a great movie and a fitting end to the SW prequels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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