Defensive walls - do they really work?

[Athanasios]

Just wondering, if the ground defensive walls will cover the units behind them from same-height units firing on them. In Battlegrounds and all AOE series (and in the majority of RTS in general that have walls), walls are mostly used to stop units from moving through the shortest route; they provide no cover. If you click to attack the troop behind the wall, then the laser/bullet would somehow* pass through the wall and hit the troop/unit.

 

Personally, this is not that good feature, or better, it's pointless. In the this image with the Bacta tank and the rebs vs imps fight, we can see some walls. I know, they look nice, but if they don't cover my units, then, i won't pay a penny for them.

 

* Ok, i know that according to quantophysics a small object has some possibility of passing through another object........but there we talk about e- and moles, not bullets and walls. Besides, i don't think that devs take in mind quantomechanics (they don't even take in mind most classic physic laws...) So, objection rejected

[popcorn2008]

Well in the C&C games, walls would actually do there job and stop bullets and shells from going through them. Only projectiles could go over them, as in real life. So I expect that since petro has many westwood vets they'll be able to get it right.

[Daddyboom]

walls probably would stop some laser fire, but not artillary or bombings

[Animask]

well, it would be nice if the whole game could be realistic (skills placed entirely at random, 1-2 shot kills, ect) but if walls dont work like how they should, then my vote for how great the game will be goes down by atleast 3

[shadowsfm]

its funny in galactic battlegrounds, everything but artilary can go over walls

[aggie_john]

Defense from walls can be suspect at times but if used right they can slow advancing troops and vehicles trying to rush a base. Me I would use walls in these games like barbed wire to tunnel the enemy into kill zones where I had set up strong defense.

[Athanasios]

Defense from walls can be suspect at times but if used right they can slow advancing troops and vehicles trying to rush a base. Me I would use walls in these games like barbed wire to tunnel the enemy into kill zones where I had set up strong defense.

 

Tunelling enemy with walls actually never works, at least in multiplayer where the enemy is human and not a *smart* pc. Also, even the "advanced walls" where no match for ATATs or some artillery fire; and then the whole Chinese walls proves to be just a waste of time and credits. That's why players in multiplayer at Battleground, when they wanted to use walls (advanced), they built 2-3 series of walls, one behind the other...

 

Yet, if C&C walls worked as they should, then we can hope that walls will deserve their credits

 

Personally, i use walls to cover units and especially long range artilleries from behind; stopping the marcing units with a physical obstacle is the second use of them. Artilleries behind a walls are normally harder to hit than in open battlefield, since many enemy shots fall on the walls (if artilleries are placed very close behind the wall). Also, walls can cover Turrets, both from many enemy lasers (not all, since turrets are higher than the walls) and from enemy troops that might try to take over the turret.

[saalkin]

If the walls work then I hope they have some kind of gate like CnC TS.

[darthfergie]

Also I think walls will do a good job of slowing down enemy units for one thing. Walls will keep light units from being effective in an attack so that you have the opportunity to pick them off at will. Also walls can force enemy troops down a corridor that you have heavily defended (having a wall, but leaving an open space in it that has heavy defenses allows you to have a kill zone/choke point) So walls will be effective no matter how you look at them. They may not stop fire from an AT-ST, but they may end up forcing that AT-ST into a crossfire where it is easily torn apart.

 

EDIT - heh. Sorry, didn't see your post John.

 

And funneling the enemy into killzones does end up working even with "smart" human players. Human players have the odd tendency to see defenses and think to themselves "I've got heavy artillery I can take these out" and will use their forces to take out the turrets and such even when there is a decent sized corridor where they can take their men and raid the enemy base if they only blow a hole in the wall a little bit farther down.

Now I'm not talking about a wall the size of the great wall of china, don't get me wrong. I'm talking about a somewhat small wall that covers the area of a medium sized open area. People tend to, once they see defenses, attack the defenses instead of the weak belly of the base such as a vehicle production yard. It's dumb human nature to do so and has been proven so throughout history instead of bursting through and leaving small pockets of resistance behind, you'll find most people hitting defenses head on. Funneling enemy troops has worked quite well for me anyways.

[Givike]

If your opponent is a person then he won't go in through the corridor. Unless you're noob or really confident.

[aggie_john]

Not always sometimes terrian forces you into areas. I am not saying that you should pin your hopes on it but it can often times inflect loses on the enemy that they will miss later, such as when your own forces counterattack after they have finally smashed through your defensive structures.

 

If nothing else they serve as a solid deturrent to attack certain area without making a big production of it. I mean if your opponent is shelling the crap out of a piece of the wall, ummmm I wonder what he is up to?

[Athanasios]

I never go through a tunnel simply because the odds are that the enemy will be waiting for me on the other side. I send just a speeder bike/spy to check this out, nothing more.

 

If im not mistaken, tunelling is used only from the player that is in "tight" position; he runs into a small place, fortifies it around with only a tunel driving to the area, he builds a mech factory and a base and tries to take a breath from the enemy's march. That's what i could see in Battlegrounds. In these situations, i would just camp outside the tunnel and bombard him in multiple ways (sea/air/artilery bombardment) from a secured position.

 

Luckily, in EaW, the terrain is 3d, so, there are chances that you can bombard the defender from a cliff or something. So, walls could be better used to fortify already fortified garissoned units in bunkers etc. and to surround factory areas.

[lukeiamyourdad]

its funny in galactic battlegrounds, everything but artilary can go over walls

 

 

Did you actually play SWGB ?

Artillery could fire over walls.

[DS_Vespidbat]

That's why players in multiplayer at Battleground, when they wanted to use walls (advanced), they built 2-3 series of walls, one behind the other...

 

Who will do that!?!?!a very skillful player will never do that in RM they would have better chance at building a fort and a sheild gen.And i never saw anyone do that in any sort of game in battlegrounds.If anyone does that than...they hadn't had the game for a long time <_<

[Givike]

Who will do that!?!?!a very skillful player will never do that in RM they would have better chance at building a fort and a sheild gen.And i never saw anyone do that in any sort of game in battlegrounds.If anyone does that than...they hadn't had the game for a long time <_<

 

 

People do it all the time...

 

 

If you're defending a trade route for example, one line won't cut it cause they'll rush in. If you have 3 lines you have time to reinforce it till back up comes.

[BattleDamage]

Did you actually play SWGB ?

Artillery could fire over walls.

 

 

Actually, many a time have I been frustrated because the stupid artillery kept hitting a building in front of it and not the one i aimed it at.

[Darth_Extas]

THe SWGB artillery is similar to the AOE2 catapult, in that it fires a curtain amount of (objects), that hit with less aim then the usual laser/arrow.

[Guest DarthMaulUK]

I only used walls to wall in my enemy playing SWGB (walled in his CC! lol) Depending on how much they cost but they really are a waste of money when you consider the height of the AT AT and AT ST so would really only offer addition protection to structures, if you can place them next to them

 

DMUK

[Jamps]

I use walls in Galactic Battlegrounds a lot. I usually use heavy walls to keep foot soldiers out of range of my cannons and artillery.

 

Also, when you must surrender a position, leaving a few builders behind to set up light and medium walls can give your army time to set up a new position.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Actually, many a time have I been frustrated because the stupid artillery kept hitting a building in front of it and not the one i aimed it at.

 

 

What Extas said and add to that the fact that you simply didn't aim it right.

Doesn't make it less capable of firing over walls.

[BattleDamage]

True, but my point was is that sometimes it does hit a higher object, like a wall, before the projectile hits the assigned target.

[lukeiamyourdad]

So? That's not what it's about. It's about whether or not it can shoot over walls and it can. If you don't aim it right, nobody cares.

[Rok_stoned]

In most stratagy games walls are used to protect achers and other squishies from the rigors of close combat. Translation from games like warcraft and AOE series didn't quite well, why? Because almost everyone in these futuristic games are archers! The meaning of walls is to protect the archers from swordsmen and axemen or maybe even pigmen by giving them the advantage of not being hit by 90% of the enemy army Whilst they could atack everything else (except artillery). In SWGB all the basic troopers were ranged! That means that the archers can get shot back at removing the advantage granted by the wall. Now the only units that truly benifit from walls are artillery and turrets because of their minimum range.

[shadowsfm]

funny, in galactic battleground, i never could shoot over a wall with artilary

[Athanasios]

Yes, yes and again yes . Seeing from the demo, the walls do block the lasers shot from lower heighted units. You can see this clearly in the Tatoine gc mode, where the "back door" of the enemy base has an anti-infantry turret behind the walls and troops/atst also take cover behind the wall.

 

Guess, this is why there's a "take cover" function for troops too .So, that's why there are sparse walls, and cover positions made by sacks of sand around the maps............

 

So, we're done with this one