KOTOR 3 should be like Oblivion

Mister Chief · March 28, 2006

Anyone who has played The ELder Scrolls IV: Oblivion knows what I am talking about. No, I am not saying it should be First Person, but the Character cusomization on the game is vey good, along with the epic world size. The Developers should take notes on this game.

Some things I would like to see incorperated from Oblivion:

-Different Species for PC

-Actual Facial customization, not just "choose a head"

-Limited inventory, but if you leave an Item in a box, it stays there

-Level Size (Huge)

-Graphics detail (It looks amazing on 360, and a little bit of "pop in" is worth it)

-More side quests, possibly even groups to join like the guilds

Anyone else think that this game should inspire the other RPG designers out there?

†Saint_Killa† · March 28, 2006

I agree with you on the customizations and large maps.

RedHawke · March 28, 2006

-Different Species for PC

Well see romance is a feature of the KotOR series, and some people would have issues with a inter-species romance, hence why I believe Juhani's romance options were fairly well cut out of KotOR I and why the PC is restricted to being a human.

Personally I don't see why Human/Zabrak/Twi'lek/Misc Near Human romances aren't possible... Star Trek has no problem with it. (Note: I'm not addressing having children together, just that they could be a couple. )

But for KotOR III our PC will very likely be a human again, as it will likely follow the formula of the first 2 installments, and it is easier to write/script the game.

-Actual Facial customization, not just "choose a head"

I don't personally care too much about this one, though choose a head and then hair/skin/eye color for it would be nice.

-Limited inventory, but if you leave an Item in a box, it stays there

This was discussed before, and the general consensus is against incumberance or limited invantories.

Limited invantories in RPG's stink, and result in too much wasted time for gamers having to ferry stuff to different places.

This is the one thing that Morrowind irritated me to no end about, that inane and dumb encumberance weight system.

And FYI, in both the KotOR games placeables were persistant, so if you place an item in a container it will still be there when you come back. Example: The containers in the cargo bay of the Ebon Hawk in KotOR I.

-Level Size (Huge)

I keep hearing how this is good, but really huge levels are not all that good, it is a feature of that perticular game, but it doesn't fit in KotOR.

I'd prefer a KotOR III that keeps the general feel of the previous games. You can also keep the feel of a larger place by having travel between places, like on Telos in TSL, taking the shuttle to the different areas made it feel bigger and more diverse, I would like to see more of that in KotOR III.

-Graphics detail (It looks amazing on 360, and a little bit of "pop in" is worth it)

Will KotOR III likely be better graphically than KotOR and TSL are, most certainly, but I don't expect a drastic change to its look either.

-More side quests, possibly even groups to join like the guilds

While Guild and Side Quests are nice too many of them distracts from the main story of the game. Morrowind and Oblivion are more free play RPG's compared to KotOR and TSL which are a pure story driven RPG.

Anyone else think that this game should inspire the other RPG designers out there?

Yeah I believe it should, but not for a third installment for a set game series. After KotOR III is done, if they start a new Star Wars RPG, then I'm all for these kinds of features.

Achilles · March 28, 2006

Yeah I believe it should, but not for a third installment for a set game series. After KotOR III is done, if they start a new Star Wars RPG, then I'm all for these kinds of features.

Quoted for emphasis!

Ztalker · March 28, 2006

I couldn't agree more...

Kotor 1 and 2 are all about the humans. All the Jedi masters were human in Kotor 2, as well for your Team-mates. (Mandalorian and Miraluka are close enough )

But as Redhawke pointed out, they could start with it on the new trilogy.

I would like it...Twileks...hmmm...

Beast-Thrasher · March 28, 2006

I know I'm getting away from the major point but I just want to point out something I've notice over playing both games during the same week.

I've notice that in Kotor 1 there's alot of Twi'leks in the game in the second game barely any in comparison. The Black Vulkars consisted of mostly that one race you meet some of them on Nar shadaa and they want to get their captain back, well lots on Taris and some on Manaan but only three in the second game. There weren't many Ithorians either but in the second game there were more and they had a role to play as well. Rodians broke even, I saw as much in the first game as the second, same with that race of that guy who tries to buy T3 on Nar Shaddaa there's about the same amount, might have a little more in the first. If you remember that lizard race of guys that pop up on Yavin IV in the first game thats it thats all you see of them, but in the second game theres tons.

Anyway, as you can see a pattern here, I think that in the third game there'll be more aliens different and some returning. I'd really like having a twi'lek on my team....mmm maybe unreliable Griff would be neat but that's just maybe.

Prime · March 28, 2006

I agree with all but the first point.

Haven't played Oblivion though...

Mister Chief · March 28, 2006

I agree with all but the first point.

Haven't played Oblivion though...

I knew that the species and the limited inventory would stir up resistance, lol.

lukeiamyourdad · March 28, 2006

Well, anything can stir up resistance. I'm pretty much with RedHawke on every point except for the level size. It can be huge yet still keep the feeling of KotOR. It's a question of design. If we were treated with a Taris x3 with more quests and elements in the areas, it would be pretty fun.

Wide open spaces are a different matter though. The plains of Dantooine or the Sand desert of Tatooine might be annoying after a while.

Like I said, it's more of a question of design, where should we have big areas, where should we have smaller ones.

And yeah, any kind of limited inventory is annoying...except in MMORPGs since they do make sense and players are more leaniant on the matter.

Morrowind and Oblivion are sort of a cross between an SP RPG and an MMORPG. While their style does fit them (du'h), it might not for KotOR.

Mister Chief · March 29, 2006

When I say level size, I don't mean just wide open spaces. I am talking about cities that are seamless, and don't reqire loading, and jungles, that are multi-layered. Starship ports with capital ships landed in them, large scale battles that actually contain armies, (think a better khoonda.) etc.... maybe make the game a little more epic and grand in scale.

Buzz1978 · March 29, 2006

-Different Species for PC

I'd like it but I find it unlikely for a Kotor-game. Just imagine how complex the dialogue-work for example with Juhani would have been if the PC could have been different species, maybe even a Cathar himself...

-Actual Facial customization, not just "choose a head"

I believe most people want that, at least to some degree.

-Limited inventory

I don't know... perhaps if it matches the "gaming system" but right now it has always been only a stupid and annoying restriction to the player. I can't help but remember carrying around two really heavy swords in Morrowing for *some* time and then throwing them away because no merchant had enough money to buy them...

-Level Size (Huge)

Great. It took me one hour in Morrowind to find this blasted cave of failed whatchacallthems... I don't like getting lost in a RPG. I'd like a bit more free area and the "feel" of being on a big planet - but huge areas? No, thanks.

-More side quests

If they're properly done, yes. Side quests from K1&2 differ from other games' side quests. They're shorter, easier but still more intense. Most of the time when yout get lots of side quests, the devs didn't care enough for them to make them thrilling, unannoying, consistent or in one word *fun*.

Emperor Devon · March 30, 2006

-Different Species for PC

As RH said, it could interfere with the romance quests. I don't care that much if they include that option or not, as long as you have the choice of being a human.

-Actual Facial customization, not just "choose a head"

That would be nice, but not as in-depth as the one in Oblivion. I'd just like to choose a head and maybe change the eye or hair color of my character.

-Limited inventory, but if you leave an Item in a box, it stays there

Absolutely not. Although KotOR's unlimited inventory was realistic, it was very convenient. Having to get rid of or storing items just for the sake of a small inventory is tedious, and detracts from the actual gameplay.

-Level Size (Huge)

If it interferes with the level quality, then no. Level sizes have never bothered me that much, as long as it's fun to play through.

-Graphics detail (It looks amazing on 360, and a little bit of "pop in" is worth it)

As I have said before, I would prefer regular KotOR graphics with better textures and anti-aliasing. It wouldn't feel as much like KotOR otherwise.

-More side quests, possibly even groups to join like the guilds

I am against the guild part. You couldn't join guilds in the previous two games, and I don't think the consistency should be broken.

The Distorted · March 31, 2006

Personally, the level size doesn't bother me altogether that much (just as long as it doesn't shrink in comparison to the first two games!), but what I want are planets/levels where the quests are big, with many facets to them, or with lots of different quests to undertake, and potentially choose from.

For example, my favourite planet on TSL was Dxun/Onderon, and my favourite on KotOR 1 was Korriban, because one of the main reasons (combined with other factors, such as the quality of the tasks/missions you could do) they felt so "full", and thus were very immersive. Taris is another good example of this (although admittedly, it is big too, with its many areas).

Nar Shadaa is also another relevant example here too, but not quite as good as I did find (at least in the first playthrough) that it was a little too vague/ambivalent in some of its aspects.

But then again - I also don't want another Peragus, with all that backtracking through the same small areas (and it was hardly like you had alot of sidequests to do either )

It's just about finding the right balance, really.

As a sidenote, I definately want the team-mate sidequests concept to return from KotOR 1, especially the planet specific style ones.

Sabretooth · April 1, 2006

I've been envisioning an open-ended, top-notch quality KotOR III all this while. I haven't played Oblivion, but I have played the first Elder Scrolls and I was blown away by the detail. It was like real world. If we can recreate that with KotOR, it'd be great.

Species

While I don't mind alien species, there is a sort of taboo against aliens in SW, especially in the KotOR era. You'll notice that more than half of the NPCs in both games were humans - because reading stuff while the alien speaks weird was annoying to some. As for humanoids, it's just not done. Twi'Leks are mostly underworld dancers or dealers. Zabraks are rare.

Graphics

There will definitely have to be a leap in graphics. LA will have to break the industry standards and use a deadly-powerful graphics engine that will realisticly bring life to KotOR characters. They should also remake some of the KotOR and KotOR II characters, just for the heck of it. NPCs should be made more diverse and all that. Graphically, SW has a ton of potential, but for some reason, it's not used.

Inventory

Limited Inventory is okay, but it is normally considered unlimited, because you have such a large ship to dump stuff in. It'd be nice to see the stuff you own in your real-time, though. That'd be cool. But most of all, there should be a revamped Inventory menu. One that lets you check the stats of every item very systematically and lets you compare stuff. I liked how Diablo and Dungeon Siege's buy/sell screens were. There you could easily compare and trade your items. Something like that would be nice.

Animation

Auto-generated Animation is a must. Spore has proven that this is a possiblity, and if the idea is worked upon properly, KotOR 3 will be spectacular. High-Quality Physics too is a must. It used in just about every game now, even in RTSs, so why not a RPG? It'd be cool to watch people fly with Force Wave, then freeze the scene and rotate in 360, like the Matrix. They can also do Motion Blur etc. effects. Lots of potential here!

Jackel · April 1, 2006

It'd be cool to watch people fly with Force Wave, then freeze the scene and rotate in 360, like the Matrix. They can also do Motion Blur etc. effects. Lots of potential here!

Can already be done. Hit pause. Rotate the screen. Dont need fancy new physics for it at all.

Sabretooth · April 2, 2006

Can already be done. Hit pause. Rotate the screen. Dont need fancy new physics for it at all.

Yes I know, but I misconveyed my concept.

It's like, everybody in the air, and motion blur, and realistic flying physics-enabled models and all that. In KotOR, although the effect is cool, it's still generic in nature. The characters all fall back in the same animation style. Maybe also a 360 saver, so you can view the 360 version of your best fights whenever you like or something like that...

Mister Chief · April 13, 2006

Animation

Auto-generated Animation is a must. Spore has proven that this is a possiblity, and if the idea is worked upon properly, KotOR 3 will be spectacular. High-Quality Physics too is a must. It used in just about every game now, even in RTSs, so why not a RPG? It'd be cool to watch people fly with Force Wave, then freeze the scene and rotate in 360, like the Matrix. They can also do Motion Blur etc. effects. Lots of potential here!

This is something I left out, because physics don't really matter much in KOTOR, but using A physics engine to create a ragdoll effect for bodies killed in defferent ways would be cool. (i.e., Sith lightning blasting somone into a locker, and they bounce off of it and collapse onto the floor.)

stingerhs · April 13, 2006

physics could still be useful in a number of ways with in an RPG, especially with the puzzles that some RPG's are known for. another use could be to have the ability to pick up objects and hurl them at enemies or cause area specific events such as a cave collapse or otherwise. physics in gameplay is something that really helps to add to a number of dimensions that could easily be used in any game.

Vaelastraz · April 14, 2006

You cant really compare Kotor to Oblivion.

Oblivion isnt based on a tight fascinating Story, but on a huge explorable world.

Oblivion uses a combat system which cant be compared to the one Kotor is using.

The only part from Oblivion which i would like to see in a possible Kotor 3 is the character creater. It took me over half an hour in Oblivion to customize my character. IT was unbelievable how many options to customize your character you have.

For the graphics, no please not, i play Oblivion with minimum details at 800x600 and still there are lags. I dont want to buy a new PC.

However, i would like them to improve the graphics but keep the old style.

A simple increase in textures won't do it for me though.

And please no limited Inventory. THis is something which always annoys me (although is is realistic). It annoyed me in Baldurs GAte series, in NeverwinterNights, in Morrowind and in Oblivion. I like to pick up every single item i find.

For different species: No! I want the PC to be a Human, while in other games i like different species (Oblivion for instance) i dont want them in Kotor. That is just personal though, as long as iam not forced to be not human i wouldnt mind having the possibility-

Mister Chief · April 15, 2006

Different Species: It seems that if any, it should be humanoid, with only minor differences_ I.E. Twi-leks.

Facial Customization: The more the better imo

Limited inventory: when I first said this, I didn't really think about how much stuff I used in the first 2

Level Size: I didn't necessarrilly mean wide open fields, but maybe less load points on the planets, and huge bases and complexes.

Graphic Detail: Needs to be good. maybe not cutting edge, but good. I am against dumbing down the graphics so that all of you with old computers can still play it. Buy a 360 or new card. I view this like people who own PSones complaining about games coming out on PS2.

Side Quests: maybe just quests after the main storyline (if the storyline allows for it), or maybe just "resolution quests" as I call them, or a small number of quests after the climax of the game, to help smooth out the end.

I would like to see things like Limited inventory to be implemented using options (On and Off)

DarthZayne · April 15, 2006

anyone got problem with the forum ?

[Edited got some huge problem with the forum for a time]

i posted them my explorer crash and the post didnt apear.

[spoilers kotor 1 and 2.]

#1

yeah the combat system should be fun.

but some problem should apear switching for your party members and huge planet's and a huge amount of item that they have to make it for a first person view.

and yeah about human's but what i think about it its the dev realy liked the Story of Exar kun and Ulic Qel-Droma in the comic's and in someway they try to remake it .

2 human's , 2 fallen jedi

[Revan] realy look like Exar in so many ways , both abicious and both have been betray by them aprentice.

[Exile] and Ulic both search for Redemption , and both got banish from the force , because of them choice .

firehead2591 · April 24, 2006

You cant really compare Kotor to Oblivion.
Oblivion isnt based on a tight fascinating Story, but on a huge explorable world.

Oblivion uses a combat system which cant be compared to the one Kotor is using.

The only part from Oblivion which i would like to see in a possible Kotor 3 is the character creater. It took me over half an hour in Oblivion to customize my character. IT was unbelievable how many options to customize your character you have.

For the graphics, no please not, i play Oblivion with minimum details at 800x600 and still there are lags. I dont want to buy a new PC.

However, i would like them to improve the graphics but keep the old style.

A simple increase in textures won't do it for me though.

And please no limited Inventory. THis is something which always annoys me (although is is realistic). It annoyed me in Baldurs GAte series, in NeverwinterNights, in Morrowind and in Oblivion. I like to pick up every single item i find.

For different species: No! I want the PC to be a Human, while in other games i like different species (Oblivion for instance) i dont want them in Kotor. That is just personal though, as long as iam not forced to be not human i wouldnt mind having the possibility-

well you can't really expect on playing a next gen game(oblivion) on a ghetto a** comp,sorry but the truth hurts. as for kotor, yeah i wan't the same style with WAY better textures(clothes were horrendous close up) very good lighting and very good shadows and smoother edges keep style but make it graphically enhanced to a very high level. kotor and tsl graphics are unacceptable by todays standards we need to be taking a step forward not a step back for the people who don't want to spend money yet complain on how slow next gen games go on their comp.

firehead2591 · April 24, 2006

You cant really compare Kotor to Oblivion.
Oblivion isnt based on a tight fascinating Story, but on a huge explorable world.

Oblivion uses a combat system which cant be compared to the one Kotor is using.

The only part from Oblivion which i would like to see in a possible Kotor 3 is the character creater. It took me over half an hour in Oblivion to customize my character. IT was unbelievable how many options to customize your character you have.

For the graphics, no please not, i play Oblivion with minimum details at 800x600 and still there are lags. I dont want to buy a new PC.

However, i would like them to improve the graphics but keep the old style.

A simple increase in textures won't do it for me though.

And please no limited Inventory. THis is something which always annoys me (although is is realistic). It annoyed me in Baldurs GAte series, in NeverwinterNights, in Morrowind and in Oblivion. I like to pick up every single item i find.

For different species: No! I want the PC to be a Human, while in other games i like different species (Oblivion for instance) i dont want them in Kotor. That is just personal though, as long as iam not forced to be not human i wouldnt mind having the possibility-

well you can't really expect on playing a next gen game(oblivion) on a ghetto a** comp,sorry but the truth hurts. as for kotor, yeah i wan't the same style with WAY better textures(clothes were horrendous close up) very good lighting and very good shadows and smoother edges keep style but make it graphically enhanced to a very high level. kotor and tsl graphics are unacceptable by todays standards we need to be taking a step forward not a step back for the people who don't want to spend money yet complain on how slow next gen games go on their comp.

Cactus-Jack · April 24, 2006

I have to agree that species really should be kept to human only to avoid any issues with alien romance stuff, though i have to admit i did enjoy playing through once as a twilek.

Customising faces? Definatly, i think this would be on my top 10 list of wants, its sad to think even old N64 games and such have much better face customising options.

Limited inventory? Not sure... i dont think it would be worth the hassle, and it would no doubt bring with it bugs when reciving items from quests when your out of room. (unless it was automaticly zapped back to the hawk/ship for you..)

Level sizes were about right, imo. And i think i'm one of few here, but i LOVED the tatooine desert.

Graphics, hmm. Well i think the game engine is pretty much stuck where it is as far as effect support goes, but i'd kill to give clothing in the game some half decent textures! Some of the stuff that snuck into the game is pretty appauling... And while we're at it, can we please have models with NECKS. not freaky triangular shaped poles that stick into the body.

I'd love to join in the discussion of all the cool things kotor3 could have, but i dont want to get my hopes up, realisticly speaking we're going to end up with the same game engine as the previous kotor's. Hopefully it'll be tweaked a little to make it performance-friendly though.

Ragdolls, or a basic forum of them would be pretty cool, i'd love to force wave a group of guys into each other.

Something cool and within the game engines limits would be some kinda of battle-cam similar to empire at war. That way you could que up say 10 moves for your guys and watch it infold from all sorts of angles.

The box at the bottom of the screne that holds your qued movies could also be increased so allow for more than 6 (i think the limit is 6?) moves qued up. Just a pet peev of mine.

More varied animations! Please! Even if its just 20 or so extra melee attack animations, it would help things from being so samey. Maybe even have "finishing blow" animations since the game calculates if a character will hit before the animation is played. That way they could throw in a few cool death animations. Again, this would be easily within the engine limits and would be a nice touch.

The ability to stay in 1st person view would be nice, seeing as the code and such is already there i dont see why it shouldnt be an option. Just a simple "press X to toggle views" would do, and would mean close/far zoomed views to suit peoples personal referance.

But this is just my opinion, so pay no mind

Cactus-Jack · April 24, 2006