Maybe KOTOR III should NOT happen...

[Mosier]

Now that I have your attention...

 

What I mean is, that if they are going to make #III I think they need to make a definitive stand on what "really" happened in the previous two games and make them canon.

 

In making TSL they made the innovative decision to allow you to "continue" the story as YOU left it in KOTOR 1. Through the conversations you establish what happened to Revan and who he/she was.

 

HOW can they pull this off in III?

 

Think about it. KOTOR 1 had basically two endings: LS Revan and DS Revan.

 

KOTOR 2 comes along and continues EITHER of those endings, but now adds LS Exile and DS Exile.

 

That is FOUR possibilities. LS Revan and LS Exile. LS Revan and DS Exile. DS Revan and LS Exile. And DS Revan and DS Exile.

 

NOW add number 3 and if you try to do the same thing you have to add a LS and DS ending PLUS the different endings from the first two. Meaning that they would have to account for EIGHT different scenarios. And imagine trying to establish that through more expositional dialogue trees.

 

"So who was Revan?" "A LS girl?" "What about the Exile?" "A DS Male?" "What about...?" ad nauseum. Add to this a THIRD new character that doesn't know anything about his or herself. UNLESS...

 

They bring back Revan or the Exile. But this would require some things to be set down in stone. I would think it necessary unless they want to send the player through several hours of "discovering" what happened in two games the player has already played. UNLESS...

 

They abandon the Revan/Exile thing altogether and set the game in a different time period. The "Old Republic" Era is usually considered any time between 5,000 and 1,000 years before the Prequels or maybe right up to the Prequels themselves. So they could move up the timeline 2,000 years and still be in the "OR" era. Then they wouldn't have to worry about Revan/Exile because it would be "ancient" history.

 

OR

 

How about a new game altogether? *GASP, SHOCK, HORROR* They could try making Knights of the New Republic. LA kind of teased at this already with the Jedi Academy game. Why not an RPG? With the various conflicts the New Republic faced, it would make a fine setting. You also get the added benefit of dropping the Skywalkers/Solos into the game. Maybe even the Yuzhan Vong invasion or afterwards. I think that would be a great game too.

 

Just throwing some ideas out there. Hate 'em or love 'em. Won't hurt my feelings.

[KyleOfHarpenden]

hmm i still dont think that they shouldn't make a kotor3 it'll obviously sell, but u have some points. I think that revan and exile will both be DS so you have to ether join them or kill them, but if there was a kotor3 it would most likely have alot of open war in the game(witch would be great) i think that you should be a jedi who serverd in the Mandalorian wars and faced trial like the exile but was re-accepted, so you fought in the civil war and where thought dead... and the story goes from there

[Darth Windu]

Easy. All you have to do is, when you are being trained as a Jedi, have a simple 'Jedi History Test' where you define things like Revan's LS/DS and gender, plus that of the exile, much like was done in K2 with Atton.

[Pavlos]

Or you could just get the game to read the GLOBALVARS in a save file.

[Prime]

I like your last option, Mosier.

[jonathan7]

Personally, I dont think that both could have been DS as the galaxy would have been completly destroyed - eg, the republic army massacred at the star forge, then the exile being ds, would have made onderon leave the republic, telos would be dead, dantooine run by mercs - the galaxy would be too damamged dont you think?

 

So id favour having a DS Revan ((s)he had to go DS to combat the 'True Sith' and the Exile went LS to save the jedi - the other problem with the exile going DS - is how would any jedi be left if (s)he went DS??

 

The 'Jedi history test' is a good idea but i thin it would be good for lucas arts to come out with a definitive what actually happened in the games.

[The Source]

I like your last option as well.

 

A few moments ago, I just got through talking to the Jedi Masters on Dantooine (KotOR I). After listening to the historian, I drew the conclusion that Exile's necessity is really not important. The main focus of the series was Revan.

 

It was Revan & Malek who found the Star Forge.

It was Revan & Malek who tapped into it's power.

It was Revan who remembered the threat in the Unknown Regions.

It is all about Revan.

 

This time around, I am listening/reading the dialouge carefully.

 

Remember, the Masters have no idea how Revan and Malek quickly built such a big army. I think that Revan built a massive army in the Unknown Regions. He used the Unknown Threat's (Ancient Sith) technologies to do so. What we saw in KotOR I was a small fraction of the threat to come. Since his cannon is lightside, I think he went to confront the army. I also think that he handed the army over to that another Unknown Threat (Ancient Sith Decendant), for he wasn't sure if he was going back. I think Revan built apart of that Unknown Threat, and he went back to correct his Darkside error.

 

The Exile was only a small pawn in a bigger game. If I remember correctly, you can correct me if I am wrong, but the Exile was supossed to die at the end of KotOR II.

 

KotOR III should have a fresh story, but ocassionally you will hear about Revan's exploits. Revan should not be the main focus, but he will be a key player in the dialouge to find out about the Unknown Threat.

 

Remember, this story has to be simple. Simplicity is the key. The more details you add, the less likely the story will be finished in KotOR III.

[jonathan7]

Well Revan is a key player, But i have to say i prefer the charachter of the exile, it also makes sense for (s)he being lightside, given that he turned away after malachor and didnt go on the jedi civil war... therefore i think its more logical that (s)he would be lightside. But in terms of all the mysteries all of the questions revolve around Revan, so i think the exile only has a small part to play in KOTOR 3 - mainly that he re-established the jedi order. Because how would the jedi of survived if he hadnt gone lightside? I also agree simplicity is key and revan should have the questions answered about him/her.

 

I still say its better having Revan as a darksider tho, that way fans of the genre get to have a lightsider and a darksider satisfying those who prefer either faction.

 

I have to say im not sure i like the idea of the exile dying at the end of K2 unless it was to sacrifice him/herself to save everyone else!

[DarthMuffin]

Knights of the New Republic? Not for me.

 

I liked JO (early NR), but there's no way in hell I'm buying a game that has all those something-vong, imperial remnant, reborn, undead, whatever. Writers have been given way too much freedom IMO.

 

In any event, I strongly believe that a possible KotOR 3 should be in the same timeline as the 2 previous ones. Revan, Exile or entirely new character, I think it's the way to go. But I doubt we'll see KotOR 3 soon, as LA seems to be busy with that special game they're making.

[itchythesamurai]

I think KOTOR 3 should assume light side endings but avoid referring to the previous games. It's alright if a few previous characters pop up, and a couple of cameos, but I would expect the game to focus on a new set of characters and happenings.

[Phantom Joker]

KotOR III should have a fresh story, but ocassionally you will hear about Revan's exploits.

Actually, this is my line of thinking as well. Given the way the two games have played out so far, continuing the story and giving the player as much say as possible may be a bit clunky from a game play standpoint. TSLs solution was reasonably good (i.e. the dialogue with Atton), as long as you don't nit pick too much. I just don't see a slick way of repeating that sort of thing with two separate characters that we, as gamers, have grown somewhat attached to.

 

Remember that whoever develops KOTOR III will have 4000 years to play with. Lotsa good stories yet to be told.

[T.Nova]

Its not that hard. First off the events in TSL are not incredibly important to the plot unless your looking to shed some details on returning NPCs from K2. You don't need to worry about the Exile for the most part. Revan is really the person who set reprecussions throughout the galaxy. There are probably a thousand ways to explain the events of previous games. I think the best way though would be to save the endings of previous games and compile them into some sort of file for the next game to read so theres no need to go through several dialogue processes.

[Phantom Joker]

There are probably a thousand ways to explain the events of previous games. I think the best way though would be to save the endings of previous games and compile them into some sort of file for the next game to read so theres no need to go through several dialogue processes.

That's assuming that you have played the previous games or if you've played 'em, don't have fifteen different iterations of Revan/Exile.

 

I suppose this could all just be done at character creation. Set up your PC, then pick your Revan...

 

'Course, all of this is just speculation. If KOTOR III be done, I can only assume that there will be (or is already, we can only hope...) a pretty large batch of creative talent working these problems.

[Maverick5770]

Revan can't be DS, because they've already made him canonically (is that how to spell that?) light side. I think the idea of a history test is good to determine the history, but Lucas Arts tradition is that if it's open ended, it's lightside. I think the new PC will have to go find Revan and the Exile, LS, in the outer regions. But thats just my opinion.

[T.Nova]

That's assuming that you have played the previous games or if you've played 'em, don't have fifteen different iterations of Revan/Exile.

 

I suppose this could all just be done at character creation. Set up your PC, then pick your Revan...

 

'Course, all of this is just speculation. If KOTOR III be done, I can only assume that there will be (or is already, we can only hope...) a pretty large batch of creative talent working these problems.

 

Thats true, I would have said the game would just go on assumptions if the player does not have previous savegames, but then I realize if that player does not have K1 and K2 they will never be able to exerience the other scenarios.

 

Though as you said, chances are theres a good deal of people who are working on this issue if not have already solved it. I don't think theres a need to radically change the franchise in bringing it to the New Republic era or something just to avoid a small issue here.

[Phantom Joker]

I don't think theres a need to radically change the franchise in bringing it to the New Republic era or something just to avoid a small issue here.

New Republic era? Oh no no no... That wasn't my point. Sorry if I gave that impression. I rather like the idea of the older SW universe.

 

And frankly, it really doesn't matter much to me what the storyline is. I'll probably buy it just the same. Which is the best argument for LA to make KOTOR III, there's serious money to be made here. My greatest hope is that, whatever it is, it's a finished product. (And yet, even if not, I'll still probably buy the thing...)

[Mosier]

Here is what I think they COULD do if they want to include the previous story info without forcing you into it.

 

1)Ability to load TSL savegame. Avoids even having to do any conversation trees as the savegame will have everything: your answers to Revan history, Exile's characteristics and alignment.

 

2)Choose-Your-Own-Adventure style questionaire where you answer questions at character creation.

 

3)I-don't-care-button. Imagine a new player coming in having skipped the first two. Maybe they don't give a crap who Revan was because they have never heard of him/her.

 

I would also like to add to my point about there being 8 different scenarios to deal with in regards to possible outcomes of the first two games. That actually ignores any reference to the GENDER of Revan/Exile. Clearly, with the romantic options available that makes the gender reference very important. It decides whether the characters of Handmaiden/Disciple even "exist" in the story. So the possible outcomes actually goes up exponentially with gender data included.

 

So this actually increases the number from EIGHT to SIXTY-FOUR!!!!!

 

For each game, 2 alignments, 2 genders, over the course of three games.

 

2x2x2x2x2x2 = 2 to the 6th power = 64

 

Now this can be trimmed down by the developers by not including certain characters from later games. Mission couldn't be in TSL because of what happened to her if Revan went DS. Same with Jolee Bindo, etc.

 

Actually, the number goes higher than 64 because of whether or not the Exile actually completed the Jedi training of their crew in TSL. First time I played through, I only trained Atton and not any of the others. Adding the possibilities of them increases exponentially even further. OMG this is starting to sound like one of those Star Trek episodes lol.

 

So this goes back to my point of the developers having to drop the Revan/Exile thing OR make some hard choices and set certain story elements in stone at the risk of "invalidating" the experiences of some players. I don't see any other way.

[Clone L68362]

I've seen a thread like this recently, and I'll give the same answer. They aren't going to drop Revan and the Exile and go to a new time period or completely new story. Just let the devs do what they want, and we'll see if they made a good choice.

[MachineCult]

Revan was canonically Light side Male, so TSL didn't have 4 different scenarios to deal with, and I think that Exile was also Canonically Light side Male.

So there won't be eight different scenarios, in KotOR III the Exiles gender and force allignment will have been canonised.

[The Doctor]

^ The Exile is not LSM. The Exile isn't anything.

[MachineCult]

^ The Exile is not LSM. The Exile isn't anything.

Like I said, in KotOR III the Exiles gender and force allignment will have been canonised like Revans was in KotOR II.

[Emperor Devon]

I disagree. The end of TSL implied that there was a greater threat out there, so not having a KotOR III would be like not having a RotJ. Would that have been a terrible conclusion to the original trilogy, or what? The same goes for KotOR.

 

For how to choose Revan and the Exile's gender and alignment, I wouldn't worry about that. The devs will probably think up a better way to decide it than any of us will. Heck, they might not even bother implementing it into the game, and let you customize Revan and the Exile at the main menu. I'd be fine with that.

 

I definitely like the idea of an RPG set in the future, but maybe not the New Republic era. That time period has had far too many conflicts IMHO. That is what the Legacy era is for... I wouldn't mind seeing an RPG set in that time period.

[jedi3112]

You will need to know the endings of the previous 2 games. Otherwise the story can't continue (and RPGs are heavy story based games so that would mean the entire game collapses). They can not make any assumptions on those endings as they are determined by the player (and waht happened doesn't matter for the movies anyway). So that same player has to establish the ending of the other 2 games. This can be done by questions or loading savegames or importing characters.

 

Now I tink it would be a bad idea to create a new character as it would create another factor for a possible fourth game (they will keep this option open just so they can possibly make even more money out of KOTOR even if it's in a remote future). I think it would be better to play as 1 of the previous PCs. Loading them from a savegame or importing them into the game is actually very easy. There is no need to rid them of their abilities either. Even for players that don't have their savegames it doesn't take too much time at character creation. Just do a top down selection of powers, feats and stuff, greying out the most powerfull stuff as you go down in level. All characters should start the game at the same level (either a level 20 Revan or level 50 Exile I believe).

 

It's not that difficult to pick the feats the way I proposed, and this is the way it worked in Baldur's Gate and it caused no problems there. Besides, if you start at level 20 you would have about 20 Force Powers, now with the top down approach you could select in this order

 

Expert Lightning counts as 3 powers

Expert Choke counts as 3 powers

Death Field (advanced drain) counts as 2 powers

Expert Heal counts as 3 powers

etc.

That's already 11 powers. Done by selecting only 4 (and those 4 are probably the basic Powers)

 

Now you can also only have 3 level 18 Powers and that should be taken into account as well, but it isn't that difficult to program. I don't know the level of the power from the top of my head though, so I haven't taken them into account here.

[T.Nova]

Here is what I think they COULD do if they want to include the previous story info without forcing you into it.

 

1)Ability to load TSL savegame. Avoids even having to do any conversation trees as the savegame will have everything: your answers to Revan history, Exile's characteristics and alignment.

 

2)Choose-Your-Own-Adventure style questionaire where you answer questions at character creation.

 

3)I-don't-care-button. Imagine a new player coming in having skipped the first two. Maybe they don't give a crap who Revan was because they have never heard of him/her.

 

I would also like to add to my point about there being 8 different scenarios to deal with in regards to possible outcomes of the first two games. That actually ignores any reference to the GENDER of Revan/Exile. Clearly, with the romantic options available that makes the gender reference very important. It decides whether the characters of Handmaiden/Disciple even "exist" in the story. So the possible outcomes actually goes up exponentially with gender data included.

 

So this actually increases the number from EIGHT to SIXTY-FOUR!!!!!

 

For each game, 2 alignments, 2 genders, over the course of three games.

 

2x2x2x2x2x2 = 2 to the 6th power = 64

 

Now this can be trimmed down by the developers by not including certain characters from later games. Mission couldn't be in TSL because of what happened to her if Revan went DS. Same with Jolee Bindo, etc.

 

Actually, the number goes higher than 64 because of whether or not the Exile actually completed the Jedi training of their crew in TSL. First time I played through, I only trained Atton and not any of the others. Adding the possibilities of them increases exponentially even further. OMG this is starting to sound like one of those Star Trek episodes lol.

 

So this goes back to my point of the developers having to drop the Revan/Exile thing OR make some hard choices and set certain story elements in stone at the risk of "invalidating" the experiences of some players. I don't see any other way.

 

Mosier your making a big deal out of nothing. Theres no need to take into account every single detail from K1 and K2. Most of that stuff has little impact on the galaxy. Also plots aren't going to end up radically altered just because Revan was a female or male, or chose to romance over Brianna instead of Visas. Whats important is what Revan's alignment was and you can assume where the game went from there.

[Mosier]

Mosier you're making a big deal out of nothing. Theres no need to take into account every single detail from K1 and K2. Most of that stuff has little impact on the galaxy. Also plots aren't going to end up radically altered just because Revan was a female or male, or chose to romance over Brianna instead of Visas. Whats important is what Revan's alignment was and you can assume where the game went from there.

 

That is exactly my point. They would probably have to canonize certain aspects of the story in order to continue into a third game OR let people fill in the back story, which I think would be cumbersome. That can be done in TSL because they just continued on a few of the important threads and discarded the rest. I just think it would be a bit of a stretch to try that for a third game without setting certain threads in stone regardless of how certain players actually experienced it.