Kotor 2 Special Edition

[HerbieZ]

In relation to the similar thread about KotOR 1, If Lucasarts were to release a special edition of KotOR 2 then I would like to know who would buy it. The reason for this is that I thought sometime in the future maybe two or three years, they could release KotOR 2 with the majority of the content that was cut from it. Now we are all aware, KotOR 2 had been drastically altered due to cut content. I want to know, if a large percent of content was restored such as the Droid Factory and M4-78 by Obsidian would that be enough to whet your appetite? Fixing alot of bugs and restoring the original ending could also be included, as could be various fixes to borked quests and to add more backstory to the characters via a smattering of well placed cutscenes that were greatly needed.

 

I’d like to know how others would receive this Special Edition of Kotor 2. Would you welcome it or would you be offended? Also, what other suggestions would you add, bear in mind im not talking about Obsidian creating drastically new content, just restoring.

[Henz]

Posted a similar thread asking the same thing. I for one would jump at the chance of an improved KOTOR II.

[90SK]

There's already third party content-enhancing projects in the works that do all that. Instead of Lucasarts jumping in too, I'd prefer they focus on making a more solid KotOR III. But of course if they made a special edition, I'd certainly buy it. Though, assuming the TSLR and M4-78 projects come out prior, I don't know why I'd need to when I could download all the modifications for free.

[HerbieZ]

I kind of thought that but id like to see the original companies restore the old content if anything to see how close the other restoration projects would be.

[Darth333]

No, I wouldn't buy it. I gave my reasons not too long ago in a similar thread: http://www.lucasforums.com/showpost.php?p=2108680&postcount=9

 

I fail to see the big deal about the cut content. There is cut content in every game you buy, in every movie, etc for various reasons. Kotor 1 had at least as much cut content as K2. Their only mistake in K2 was that they didn't erase the traces very well.

[Jediphile]

No, I wouldn't support it. I would much rather support the Restoration Project, which is done by dedicated people working for the love of the game, rather than a company looking to make more money by selling me the same game twice, after they released an unfinished product the first time.

 

If that works, we'll never see the end of of games that are released in only a functional and half-finished state, only to be appear in a "special edition" or whatever later, when it's actually finished.

 

If Lucasarts really were interested in doing the game for the interest of the public, then they would get Obsidian to finish it and make the cut content available for free download, since it should have been part of the released game in the first place. Since that has not happened, and doesn't seem to be about to, I'm left rather confident that any such "special edition" would be done only for economic interests and nothing more.

 

I fail to see the big deal about the cut content. There is cut content in every game you buy, in every movie, etc for various reasons. Kotor 1 had at least as much cut content as K2. Their only mistake in K2 was that they didn't erase the traces very well.

 

Well, I have to disagree with you there... K1 only cut only Sleheyron (and fairly early in the development process) and a few cutscenes (like Carth confronting LSF Revan at the end) that I know of, none of which impacted the plot.

 

I don't think the same is the case for K2, where a *lot* of stuff was cut. The missing confrontations on Malachor V do impact the plot, since your entire party is suddenly AWOL on the planet, and it's a very loose end that you can get HK-47 to say that he can trace the signal from that sonic device back to the HK-50 headquarters, but which then never happens and is just left hanging.

 

That's rather more significant than cutting M4-78, which there is no reference to in the game, or bits of Nar Shaddaa like the Genoharadan quests, which do not seem to have lasting impact on the plot at all.

[Lantzen]

Thats depands on the price, it would be very low for me to buy it, and i mean very low. For if they did, more companys could start to rush products, then make some money on that, then re-relese the product and get even more money for it. And thats not something i would like to see happend

 

Edit: Ohh, this was like the same D333 said, so im with her

[FiEND_138]

Well, I have to disagree with you there... K1 only cut only Sleheyron (and fairly early in the development process) and a few cutscenes (like Carth confronting LSF Revan at the end) that I know of, none of which impacted the plot.

From this thread.

 

Clairification: (KotOR and TSL Missing Game Content)

---------------------------------------------------

KotOR II: TSL

[*] Missing The HK Factory section on Telos...

[*] Droid Planet (M4-78 ?)

[*] A few ending cutscenes... cut for a good reason IMHO.

[*] Section of Nar Shadaa Docks

Total: 1 Planet and a few modules and cutscenes missing in TSL.

---------------------------------------------------

KotOR I

• Sleheron
  
• Live Planet 2
  
• Live Planet 3
  
• Live Planet 4
  
• Live Planet 5
  
• Live Planet 6
  
• Jedi Enclaive Sub-level
  
• Parts of Korriban, in Dreshdae
  
• Gammorian Camp in Taris Sewers
  
• Black Vulkar Base Upper Level
  
• Alternate DS Female Ending Cutscene
  

Total: 6 Planets and several modules and a cutscene in KotOR.

---------------------------------------------------

 

Anyways, I'm going to have to agree with D333 as well. I've already droped $50 I shouldn't have to drop more to get a complete game later just so they could cash in early.

[Hallucination]

I'd buy it for the PC, just because I only have it on the Xbox and I want to try out these mods you all rave about.

[Phantom Joker]

No, I wouldn't buy it. I gave my reasons not too long ago in a similar thread: http://www.lucasforums.com/showpost.php?p=2108680&postcount=9

 

I fail to see the big deal about the cut content. There is cut content in every game you buy, in every movie, etc for various reasons. Kotor 1 had at least as much cut content as K2. Their only mistake in K2 was that they didn't erase the traces very well.

True, every grand story, whether it be an RPG, novel, movie, etc. has cut content. K2's issue was not that they didn't erase the traces of it, but that they didn't even start erasing. It was blatantly obvious that there was missing content. Obvious rush job.

 

Would I buy K2--the Gold Version? No. I expected a complete game the first time around. Granted, I got my money's worth out of K2, but I'm not particularly fond of the idea of giving LucasArts extra cash for something that they should have done the first time around.

[Jediphile]

From this thread.

 

Clairification: (KotOR and TSL Missing Game Content)

---------------------------------------------------

KotOR II: TSL

[*] Missing The HK Factory section on Telos...

[*] Droid Planet (M4-78 ?)

[*] A few ending cutscenes... cut for a good reason IMHO.

[*] Section of Nar Shadaa Docks

Total: 1 Planet and a few modules and cutscenes missing in TSL.

---------------------------------------------------

KotOR I

• Sleheron
  
• Live Planet 2
  
• Live Planet 3
  
• Live Planet 4
  
• Live Planet 5
  
• Live Planet 6
  
• Jedi Enclaive Sub-level
  
• Parts of Korriban, in Dreshdae
  
• Gammorian Camp in Taris Sewers
  
• Black Vulkar Base Upper Level
  
• Alternate DS Female Ending Cutscene
  

Total: 6 Planets and several modules and a cutscene in KotOR.

---------------------------------------------------

Now which game is missing more content?

 

At the risk of giving offense (though not intended), that list does seem to me to be written a little for the sake of proving the point from what I know of what was cut.

 

And what are the "Live Planets" in K1? Never even heard of those...

 

Also, why does so much of TSL get dumped into "just a few cutscenes"? A few things I know were cut:

 

- Atton vs. Sion fight

- Brianna vs. Handmaiden sisters fight

- Visas vs. Brianna fight (if DSM Exile)

- Atton vs. Disciple fight (if DSF Exile)

- Prison level of Malachor (where you would free your friends)

- Jedi redemption plot on Dantooine

- Fuel for Telos quest

- Real Batu Rem

- Fate of Ratrin Vek (true owner of Ebon Hawk on Nar Shaddaa)

- Lonna Vash

- Visas blinds Exile during fight

- Keeper of the Laigreks in the enclave on Dantooine

- Genoharadan plot on Nar Shaddaa

- Sion hunting the Exile on Nar Shaddaa

- Additional revelations by Mandalore

- Sion and Nihilus conflict

- Option to become Nihilus' apprentice and destroy Citadel Station

- Exile's companions confront Traya (yes, a cutscene, but a pretty major one it told you what became of your companions on Malachor instead of having them just disappear into thin air)

 

Also, you have to consider how much the cut content impacts the game. In K1, you didn't miss the cut content. The same is not true in K2, where it's clearly missing in the plot. I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one who experienced a WTF-moment when the endscene ran in K2. That did not happen in K1.

 

EDIT: Also see Wookieepedia's list of cut content here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cut_Ending_to_Knights_of_the_Old_Republic_II

[RedHawke]

^^^^

Jediphile, are you telling me you would shell out another $50 for the cutscenes you listed? It must be nice to be rich.

 

Those cut things you mention are insignificant to what is the issue here. Most are also insignificant to the story, some are uneccisary. Hence why they were cut from the game. While I do agree they would be nice to see, they are not necissary in comparison to say the Droid Planet or HK-Factory levels, that is 'cut content'.

 

Also my list is not biased... it is more fact than you want to admit. If you read the thread I posted that in I was simply refuting a posters statement, not arguing the topic one way or another. You are attempting to twist things to your advantage with your 'list' of cut scenes, and you still can not top the 6 cut planets from KotOR I, not to mention the cut modules, no matter how hard you try, or how many more cut scenes you mention.

 

Fact: KotOR I was cut far more than TSL. TSL didn't recieve the Q&A 'polish' time KotOR I did.

 

TSL was screwed out of Q&A Testing (LA Fault, they wanted those holiday $$$), it is a testement to OE's skills that they created TSL in under a year, even in its current state it is a completed product. Remember TSL is a different style of game from KotOR I and the style OE chose for TSL is one that needs adequate testing before release, again a testement to their skills that the game is even playable. If the game had its Q&A testing just imagine how polished it would be and the so-called 'whining' about 'cut content' wouldn't even exist. Just like with KotOR I, the files would have been removed and we all wouldn't have any ammo for all this the 'whining'.

 

Lastly, the KotOR I "Live Planets" were supposed to be additional planned planets we could aquire through game patches, of course they were cut, the only example we have is Suvam Tan's Station orbiting Yavin IV or "Live Planet 1", and that was a cop out as far as additional planets are concerned.

[Char Ell]

There is cut content in every game you buy, in every movie, etc for various reasons. Kotor 1 had at least as much cut content as K2. Their only mistake in K2 was that they didn't erase the traces very well.

True, every grand story, whether it be an RPG, novel, movie, etc. has cut content. K2's issue was not that they didn't erase the traces of it, but that they didn't even start erasing. It was blatantly obvious that there was missing content.

Fact: KotOR I was cut far more than TSL. TSL didn't recieve the Q&A 'polish' time KotOR I did.

I 100% agree with these statements. TSL didn't get cleaned up enough to wipe the evidence of content that didn't make it to the final cut.

 

EDIT: Oops. Forgot to also say that I don't think I would buy a KotOR: TSL Gold Edition or Special Edition or Limited Edition or whatever edition besides the one I already have if it simply restored all or most of the content that didn't make it into the original release. It would need to be an expansion pack that added new levels or story besides just the cut content for me to consider purchasing it.

[SITHSLAYER133]

kotor 1 was polished so well that unless you had access to great tools like kotor tool ( thanks fred ) we would of never had known but kotor 2 was choped in certian ways that made it look cut and imcomplete with the time kotor 1 had kotor 2 might not of been cut so badly

[HerbieZ]

I think it also depends on how a big a fan you are of Kotor and Kotor 2 in general. After seeing the list of cut content for Kotor 2, id be happy to spend my non-existent money on a re-dub of Kotor 2 just to get a few answers.

[Jediphile]

^^^^

Jediphile, are you telling me you would shell out another $50 for the cutscenes you listed? It must be nice to be rich.

 

Nonsense. I guess you missed post #6. right back at you...

 

Those cut things you mention are insignificant to what is the issue here. Most are also insignificant to the story, some are uneccisary. Hence why they were cut from the game. While I do agree they would be nice to see, they are not necissary in comparison to say the Droid Planet or HK-Factory levels, that is 'cut content'.

 

That's a matter of taste and perspective. And it is undeniable that, for example, the HK factory is missing, because it is referred to in the game. HK-47 mentions it, and you can even get him to say quite easily that he wants to find it, but you must want until the sonic device is used again before you can track its signal back to its origin, which is the presumed location of the factory. But it just never happens. So that's a plot left hanging. As is the fact that once you hit Malachor V (quite too literally, too...), all your companions suddenly go *poof* and disappear into thin air with no explanation whatsoever. That's also missing plot.

 

And that is an entirely different matter than, say, the Exile's presumed death on Nar Shaddaa, which is cut completely from the game without any reference left hanging. I think most people aren't even aware that it was planned to be in the game at one point, because nothing points to it. That's cut material without being missing plot, because you don't know it's missing from playing the game. The same can not be said for the HK-factory or the Malachor prison level.

 

Also my list is not biased... it is more fact than you want to admit. If you read the thread I posted that in I was simply refuting a posters statement, not arguing the topic one way or another. You are attempting to twist things to your advantage with your 'list' of cut scenes, and you still can not top the 6 cut planets from KotOR I, not to mention the cut modules, no matter how hard you try, or how many more cut scenes you mention.

 

Well, I look at your list, and all the things I mentioned - which you don't even deny being cut, I might add - are chunked into one throwaway comments about unnecessary stuff "cut for good reasons" or simply missing from your list completely, like the prison level on Malachor V.

 

Biased? I find it interesting that you immediately jump to protesting my questioning of your list with such a claim of attack on my part rather than consider the matter. And to then speculate about my motives is not only trolling but actually a personal attack and flaming, which I would ask that you cease with before we get into a flamewar.

 

Attack being the best defense, however, I presume this is to conceal that you don't exactly have a good case, when I can very clearly point out that your own list is obviously missing stuff like the cut prison level of Malachor V. Pointing that out makes me biased and manipulative?

 

Fact: KotOR I was cut far more than TSL. TSL didn't recieve the Q&A 'polish' time KotOR I did.

 

TSL was screwed out of Q&A Testing (LA Fault, they wanted those holiday $$$), it is a testement to OE's skills that they created TSL in under a year, even in its current state it is a completed product. Remember TSL is a different style of game from KotOR I and the style OE chose for TSL is one that needs adequate testing before release, again a testement to their skills that the game is even playable. If the game had its Q&A testing just imagine how polished it would be and the so-called 'whining' about 'cut content' wouldn't even exist. Just like with KotOR I, the files would have been removed and we all wouldn't have any ammo for all this the 'whining'.

 

Even in that event, we would still be able to wonder why HK-47 talks about the HK-factory and how it must be found and destroyed, when it never happens. And many of us doubtlessly would still wonder what became of our companions on Malachor V. That was quite a WTF moment for me, and I know I wasn't the only one...

 

However, I otherwise agree with most of your points here. I'm not denying in any way that TSL was hurt by a short development period, which was cut even shorter by LA wanted it ready before schedule, so they could cash in on it for christmas. I do not agree that K2 was completed in its current form, however. As I've said before, there are clearly things missing. But I do agree that it is a testament to OE that they finished so much of the game in so short a time. I don't blame OE for it. To me any blame lies with LA.

 

Lastly, the KotOR I "Live Planets" were supposed to be additional planned planets we could aquire through game patches, of course they were cut, the only example we have is Suvam Tan's Station orbiting Yavin IV or "Live Planet 1", and that was a cop out as far as additional planets are concerned.

 

Ah, meant for download. So that means they were planned, but just never actually done. That's cut content? You can't "lose" what you never had in the first place, so I don't think you can include those on your list of "cut content".

 

Don't get me wrong, I would have liked to see those too. But they were not cut from the game. They just were never written, and they clearly had no significance to the plot. How could they, given that they would by definition have to be optional?

[Henz]

KOTOR I was cut down.

 

KOTOR II was cut up.

 

I'm an Xbox owner and can't get the mods. I'd love to have a polished, bug free, more conclusive and tight story.

[RedHawke]

Biased? I find it interesting that you immediately jump to protesting my questioning of your list with such a claim of attack on my part rather than consider the matter.

I strongly suggest you re-read what I said...

 

And to then speculate about my motives is not only trolling but actually a personal attack and flaming, which I would ask that you cease with before we get into a flamewar.

I have done nothing wrong here, I have not 'trolled' nor have 'flamed' you, and I don't appreciate the innuendo! Flaming is name-calling, I did no such thing... I never called you names, only rebutted your silly statements.

 

Speculating about someones motives is not 'flaming' you, or trolling either...

 

Perhaps you need to grow some thicker skin for debates in the future.

[Jediphile]

I have done nothing wrong here, I have not 'trolled' nor have 'flamed' you, and I don't appreciate the innuendo! Flaming is name-calling, I did no such thing... I never called you names, only rebutted your silly statements.

 

Speculating about someones motives is not 'flaming' you, or trolling either...

 

In comment "netiquette", flaming/trolling usually includes character assassination and speculation about the other person's alleged ulterior motives for the sake of the former and by extension their argument. I dare say that saying the other person is "attempting to twist things to his advantage" would fall in that category.

 

Also, your continued use of the "rolleyes" icon at me could equally well be construed as insulting.

 

Perhaps you need to grow some thicker skin for debates in the future.

 

Me? I'm not the one who completely abandoned the subject only to say things about the other person's motives instead of arguing the topic. For example, you still choose to remain silent about the fact that the Malachor V prison level is missing from your list of cut stuff in KotOR2 in spite of claiming that your list is unbiased. When I then point that out to you, you ingore it. It seems rather obvious to me that this is because you know it's missing, but don't want to admit it. Who has the thicker skin then?

[RedHawke]

In comment "netiquette", flaming/trolling usually includes character assassination and speculation about the other person's alleged ulterior motives for the sake of the former and by extension their argument. I dare say that saying the other person is "attempting to twist things to his advantage" would fall in that category.

 

Also, your continued use of the "rolleyes" icon at me could equally well be construed as insulting.

This post tells me that it is you are the only one interested in picking a fight. Also if a simple forum smily insults you then you are going a little overboard here and are just trying to pick on anything and everything I say or do.

 

Here is what flaming is around here;

 

No Flaming. We shouldn't have to explain what this means. You cannot, in any way, insult (or "flame") someone else on the board. People may not be insulted just because their opinion differs from your own. Flaming includes calling people names, insulting them in any way or saying offensive things to them. There is no need of this, and it won't be tolerated.

What we have here is clearly you being insulted because an opinion differs from yours, and you cannot seem to handle it.

 

Me? I'm not the one who completely abandoned the subject only to say things about the other person's motives instead of arguing the topic.

I did no such thing. Besides I already answered you above, posting the same exact thing again won't help. I don't know if you had noticed but there is no more debate or argument... once you fling flaming/trolling accusations at me the discussion is over.

 

If you persist then you will have proven yourself to be the only 'trolling' party here.

 

Edit to below post by Jediphile: Thank you for proving my point Jediphile.

[Mav]

*tests waters*

 

Um, I happen to agree with Darth333 and RedHawke, in that you have to realize every game has cut content. It is also obvious that the content that was cut from TSL was not done so very... "cleanly". In my opinion though, I would not place blame on OE, but rather LA, pushing a deadline is what created roughly cut content. Despite all that a solid game was still made, with a few plot points left hanging, but overall the game still felt like a complete game.

[SITHSLAYER133]

i wont buy another unless i have acidently wiped out my disk in some sort of CD drive explosion ( this has happend before )

[Jediphile]

What we have here is clearly you being insulted because an opinion differs from yours, and you cannot seem to handle it.

 

Nonsense. I've only had two points since my first post in this topic.

 

The first was to get you to calm down a bit. Which one of us has remained calm and at least tried to discuss the topic?

 

The second, which *is* the topic is to get you to acknowledge that the cut Malachor V prison levels were missing from your list of cut K2 content, and that it was therefore incomplete in spite of your claims to the contrary. You still haven't responded to that, but then I suppose I should have realised by now that it is a lost cause... Oh, well. It's not as if I'll lose any sleep over it...

 

If you persist then you will have proven yourself to be the only 'trolling' party here.

 

Right... Pointing out something that you continue to ignore makes me a troll. Very compelling argument there

[reven0123]

id buy it they did it with fable the lost chapters and that was a very good re-release

so i fail to see thier being any problems with them doing it with tsl.

[Darth InSidious]

Fable was developed using a company's own copyrights. OE does not own the SW copyrights, LA does.