SkinWalker Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 So, basically, your assumption is that the entire history of Christianity - and the whole reason it spread to become the single largest-followed religion on Earth - with one-third of the world's population accepting its message - is because of a huge network of lies and carefully planned out made-up stories, which are compiled in one, 1,000+ page book. Yes, that makes sense. So, basically, your assumption is that it must all be true because that's what most of everyone you know believes. If that's not a logical fallacy, they don't exist! Its an argument from authority, because it relies on time and quantity as authorities to provide veracity rather than testing or inquiry. Its an argument from personal incredulity because the adherents of christian cults can't explain the world any other way -mostly by refusal to inquire or examine. It's Ad ignorantum because its believers say it must be true because they don't know it isn't. It's a Non sequitur because it doesn't follow that just because there are a lot of cult followers that they must be right. Its argued that 33% of the world follows some brand of christianity. But this 33% agrees on very little! It includes after all, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. There are, by the way, a lot of Muslims in the world. Indeed, the Islamic cults are, together, the fastest growing! By your own logic, would that not indicate that you are WRONG! Xianity isn't the way to go -Islam is! Finally, the argument is a tautology, because it argues we know xianity to be true "because it tells us so" as the Sunday school hymn goes. For the most part, humans get their world beliefs and religious ideas from the parents. This is readily apparent simply by looking at the obvious correlation between nations and regions with predominant religions and noting that no christians are born in Saudi Arabia to parents that are Muslim; no Hindi born to parents in Dublin who weren't already Hindu; and no Buddhists are born to Mormon families in Utah. The numbers of people who convert to other religious cults or give them up entirely is small (though the numbers giving up religion is growing). The world was colonized by nations like Britain, France, Belgium, Spain, and Portugual. Each ruled by monarchs who had "divine provenance" and empowered by the Judeo-Christian faith. Going further back in time, each of these nations was once part of a larger empire of Rome, which conquered what it termed "pagan" religions -stealing many of their icons and myths to adopt for the new christian cults that took their places. Indeed, there were competing cults at the conception of christianity, one of them being Mithraism, which celebrated he birth of Mithra on Dec. 25 (none of the gospels mention this date), visited by magi bearing gifts; celebrates consumption of wine & bread and baptism as sacraments; etc. Evidence is suggestive that these two competing cults may have originated from the much, MUCH earlier cult of Dionysus, who's myth is strikingly similar to that of the Jesus myth. The evidence is, that the early christian cult leaders were looking for ways to gain and maintain patriarchal power. They stole/borrowed the mythologies of the peoples they sought to influence as a method of developing trust or just outright deception. http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Terros Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 And with that post SkinWalker has won this thread. The awesomeness of that post nearly brought a tear to my eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I just believe that people should think and question. That religion has cast some "spell" to prevent inquiry is wrong. That it is somehow taboo to criticize religions and religious practices is nuts, particularly when the five or six major religious cults of the world (Sunnism, Shi'aism, Baptists, Catholicism, etc. -particularly the evangelicals of each) have such a profound effect on societies and governments to the point of being dangerous. Planes flown into buildings, pseudoscience in public schools, government policy and decisions based on religious dogma... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo_92 Posted August 8, 2006 Author Share Posted August 8, 2006 Well how do You explain this prophecy, in Revalations it says that natural disasters, Wars, and all would rise aganst Israel. These are very true signs that Jesus' second coming is very near. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Terros Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Well how do You explain this prophecy, in Revalations it says that natural disasters, Wars, and all would rise aganst Israel. These are very true signs that Jesus' second coming is very near. ... that is so damn retarded Natural disasters happen because they are natural they happen all the freaking time all through out history there has been natural disasters and theres nothing to suggest at all that they are becoming more frequent or worse. Wars well name a time in our history where there hasnt been a war. I dont see everyone rising agasint Isreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo_92 Posted August 8, 2006 Author Share Posted August 8, 2006 ok here we go Iran has missiles right they are going to use those against the us tryin to turn the us against israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 And, so, is the strawman tactic now to change the argument from inquiry about christianity to the current political problems in the Middle East. People go to war. Natural disasters happen. Predicting either or even both is hardly a "prophecy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 These are very true signs that Jesus' second coming is very near. You do know that the Christians have ALWAYS been claiming that right? My parents, who were raised Jehovah's Witnesses (they're not anymore), both say that they remember from childhood being told that "the end is near." My dad really regrets the fact that he was discouraged from education because his parents thought that Armageddon was almost here. He now, as an atheist, embraces education, and encourages me to be something that he never had the chance to be, like a teacher or a journalist. My parents are both middle-aged and no freakin' end of the world despite what their religion told them. Next time when all the Christians get excited about the "end times" and they never come, why won't they just admit that they have no clue when the "second coming" is near. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joetheeskimo Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 You do know that the Christians have ALWAYS been claiming that right? My parents, who were raised Jehovah's Witnesses (they're not anymore), both say that they remember from childhood being told that "the end is near." My dad really regrets the fact that he was discouraged from education because his parents thought that Armageddon was almost here. He now, as an atheist, embraces education, and encourages me to be something that he never had the chance to be, like a teacher or a journalist. Yes, that is what Jehovah's Witnesses teach, and that's also why Presbyterians dont' refer to Jehovah's Witnesses as "Christians". The New Testament tells all Christians to live our lives as normal, and nowhere in there does it say to stop everything and hide in your house, because the end is near. "Near" can mean millennia. However, from a scientific viewpoint, things are deteriorating, and conditions are much worse since your dad was a kid (global warming, ozone depletion, etc.) My parents are both middle-aged and no freakin' end of the world despite what their religion told them. Next time when all the Christians get excited about the "end times" and they never come, why won't they just admit that they have no clue when the "second coming" is near. We have admitted that. For a while, Jesus' disciples thought the ned was really, really near -- that it would be in their lifetime. Eventually, they realized Jesus had a different definition of "near", and that was why they began to plant churches: because they realized they needed to settle down and survive the attacks of the Roman Empire and other oppressors, since the end was, in fact, farther than they thought. So if anyone you know gave up education or something else thinking that the end was coming within months, then that person has got the wrong idea. And with that post SkinWalker has won this thread. The awesomeness of that post nearly brought a tear to my eye. You're right. He's won this argument, because I'm tired of countering what he says. Enjoy your victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pho3nix Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Yes, that is what Jehovah's Witnesses teach, and that's also why Presbyterians dont' refer to Jehovah's Witnesses as "Christians". The New Testament tells all Christians to live our lives as normal, and nowhere in there does it say to stop everything and hide in your house, because the end is near. "Near" can mean millennia. However, from a scientific viewpoint, things are deteriorating, and conditions are much worse since your dad was a kid (global warming, ozone depletion, etc.) BTW. Global Warming / Ozone depletion have not been scientifically proven. It's only propaganda fed to people by scruffy lookin' nerfherders like Al Gore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edlib Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Is it? There isn't a single, respected scientist that I can think of that refutes global warming... the scientific community is pretty universal in their acceptance of it as fact. But we are off topic (again... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samnmax221 Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Well how do You explain this prophecy, in Revalations it says that natural disasters, Wars, and all would rise aganst Israel. These are very true signs that Jesus' second coming is very near. To quote Billy Joel "We didn't start the fire", the world is and always will be some what unstable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexraptor2000 Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 As long as there is man there will be war as Einstien once said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MachineCult Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 As long as there is man there will be war as Einstien once said. Yeah, I saw that quote on Call of Duty 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexraptor2000 Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I saw it in the first Call of Duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BasiliskJC Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I used to be a christian. It's funny I went to public schools most of my life, but when I went to a private christian school I just couldn't belive it all any more. Religions, to me, just don't add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smon Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I used to be a christian. It's funny I went to public schools most of my life, but when I went to a private christian school I just couldn't belive it all any more. Religions, to me, just don't add up. They don't make sense... And there's a reason Christianity is so popular: FEAR. Hinduism says that if you don't believe it, no prob, go out and do your own thing and you're good! Buddhism says that if you don't believe it, no prob, go out and do your own thing and you're good! Christianity says that if you don't believe it, no prob, YOU'LL JUST BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY AND KNOW UNENDING PAIN FOREVER. ...and that is no good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jimmy Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Actually, Christianity says you can believe whatever you want but if you don't accept that Jesus died for you and that God will allways love you and be willing to care for you then YOU'LL JUST BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY!!!!!!!! It's not like you guys haven't had fair warning or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samnmax221 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Actually, Christianity says you can believe whatever you want but if you don't accept that Jesus died for you and that God will allways love you and be willing to care for you then YOU'LL JUST BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY!!!!!!!! It's not like you guys haven't had fair warning or anything. If Jesus comes back I'll lock him in a closet nobody tells me what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jimmy Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Yes, have fun with that. THEN BURN IN HELL!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smon Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Actually, Christianity says you can believe whatever you want but if you don't accept that Jesus died for you and that God will allways love you and be willing to care for you then YOU'LL JUST BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY!!!!!!!! It's not like you guys haven't had fair warning or anything. They say God makes no mistakes, but sending Jesus down just so he can die and scare the hell out of us (literally) seems like a mistake to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Andrew Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 They don't make sense... And there's a reason Christianity is so popular: FEAR. Hinduism says that if you don't believe it, no prob, go out and do your own thing and you're good! Buddhism says that if you don't believe it, no prob, go out and do your own thing and you're good! Christianity says that if you don't believe it, no prob, YOU'LL JUST BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY AND KNOW UNENDING PAIN FOREVER. Um, no. As far as I know, Catholicism teaches that as long as one does God's will to the best of their knowledge and ability, they will go to Heaven. Besides, Christianity wouldn't be popular if it told people 'come with us or suffer eternal damnation;" people would simply leave. They say God makes no mistakes, but sending Jesus down just so he can die and scare the hell out of us (literally) seems like a mistake to me.How so? He didn't seem to scare the hell out of us.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jimmy Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 They say God makes no mistakes, but sending Jesus down just so he can die and scare the hell out of us (literally) seems like a mistake to me. How did He scare you? I don't get it. And it wasn't a mistake. God sent Jesus to earth to witness but the main reason was so that Jesus could die for us. He had to die for us to redeem us of our sins. Thanks to Him we are all forgiven as soon as we ask. Because Jesus was 100% perfect the ultimate sacrifice, perfect and pure it counters all our sins. He came here to die for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 He had to die for us to redeem us of our sins. Thanks to Him we are all forgiven as soon as we ask. Wow that makes no sense at all. God forgave us for our sins... because we killed his son. He must have really hated his son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jimmy Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 No, Because we have sinned against him we need forgivness. So Jesus was willing to come down to earth, represent mankind, and die for us. Therefore being the perfect sacrifce because He was completely sinless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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