Killing-off the characters

[igyman]

A very simple question: Do you think that some of the old characters should be killed-off in K3, either by actually seeing them die, or just by their death being mentioned in some conversations? Of course, if you think someone should be killed-off, say who and why, if you don't then say why not.

 

Just to clarify, by 'old characters' I don't just mean Revan, Exile and their party members, but some of the other more important possible recurring characters (ex: Talia/Vaklu; Atris, if she's not dead already, etc).

[Diego Varen]

I did a Thread like this once. I believe that Canderous should die a worthy battle for the end of Clan Ordo and all Mandalorians and possibly Carth risking his life for his son or vice versa.

[Prime]

I don't think your immediate PC members should die, at least forced to. If they are going to die, I'd rather it be because of choices I made for them.

[mimartin]

I agree with Prime as far as PC are concerned. I wouldn’t mind, if it is far enough in the future, to hear about Mira being killed as described by Kreia. If it was a lightside ending (I know you have to be LS or Neutral to get her) and she did not kill Hanharr, I would like to hear about him coming back and being her undoing. Mira is my favorite NPC from either game, so if KOTOR III is set 20 – 30 years in the future I’d like to hear more about her. I also like the idea that the compassion she showed such a hideous creature could end up being her undoing. There might be too many variables to do it, but if possible I’d love to see something like that.

[Totenkopf]

Well, depending on how far forward the game is in time (10 years +/-), you could have Mira die, as Kreia reveals @Trayus Core. But, assuming Kreia's visions can be counted on as accurate, I guess you could only kill off Atton or BD (nevermind the droids). As for KOTOR, I suppose you could have Juhani, Mission and Jolee die off or be mentioned as having died here or there. You could have Canderous go out in Wagnerian glory, but that should be an option only. There should also, again, be an option to kill off Bastilla and/or Carth. Also, Zalbar could take one for the team while trying to defend Revan. In some ways, though, it begs the question of how many party member NPCs will accompany your character in the next game.

 

How about you, Igyman. Who's on your hit list?

[igyman]

Well, as most of you said, Mira could die, but I'd prefer to see that scene where she dies in a battle on a distant planet, how Kreia put it. Of course if she were to die, then she should only be a NPC and not a party member. As for the others, I'm not sure, I'd like to see Calo Nord resurface and then maybe die for the third time (but this time for real), as for other characters, well, Master Dorak's fate is unresolved (I think, since I don't remember his death being mentioned in TSL), I'd like to hear about the death of one of the Hutt mob bosses that we encountered throughout the first and second game. Only one more character comes to mind at this point and it's Hanharr (if he's even still alive). Oh, and maybe, just maybe, Carth to provide a reason for Dustil to enter the bigger picture.

[khawk]

My opinion:

 

I would kill off:

 

Juhani / Dustil Onasi / Yuthura Ban / Atris / Disciple / Handmaiden. By just mentioning how they died. The first 3 could off course have died on Katarr. The others? Well, it is possible and it makes it easy for a developer to make a story with less variables.

 

Mira? I think it would be welcome if she would sacrifice herself for our new main character. Kreia allready predicted that Mira would die by defending others so why not our new PC.

 

The following characters are I think not to important:

 

Mission / Zaalbar / Hanharr / GO-TO. I don't know if you should bring them back or not. I don't mind. But again, more variables would mean more difficult to make a decent game.

 

The following characters should IMHO be alive and in the next game:

 

REVAN!!

THE EXILE!!

 

It would be a great miss if these characters are not around:

Bastila

Atton

Visas

Mandalore

T3-M4

HK-47

 

That leaves Bao Dur. I guess it wouldn't hurt bringing him back. Maybe he engineerd something we should use. It wouldn't hurt.

 

General question as to why to kill off the ones I mentioned at the start?

Well, I think they aren't that important to the Kotor series and it would very much depend on the genders and alignments of Revan and the Exile which is why I think they should be killed off.

The ones that I think would be a great miss if they are not around are the ones that I consider "important" in the game. I would say that Visas Marr (allthough she can be persuaded to sacrifice herself if she wears clothing and she is equipped with a lightsaber) should be around, even with a DS exile. It's the same as Bastila being around with a LS Revan.

T3-M4 and HK-47? Have them as party members again! Anyone object?

Mandalore? Off course he should be in! The Mandalorians are a very important faction in the Kotor series!

[TSR]

If they do get killed off, i want to be the one responsible for it

[Emperor Devon]

I'd love for a major character other than a villain to get killed off. It could really add to the story.

[Maverick5770]

I think that it would make a better game if they killed off one of everyones favorite character. I t makes it more emotional. I also think that some of the old NPC's should still be alive, but some should have died, like JOlee, from old age, or JUhani, from Katarr. That would be the best. Even if every character goes to hell, they have to keep T3 and HK around.

[igyman]

I just remembered that I forgot to say that the Exile should get himself/herself killed. Who else, let's see, maybe Freyyr, Zaalbar's father - that way Zaalbar could:

a) appear as the new chieftain on Kashyyyk (or be mentioned as such)

b) he could return as a party member and go to Kashyyyk to restore peace to the now once again competetive tribes.

c) a combination of a) and b).

[Vaelastraz]

I want to see Mira fight on an abandoned world, like Kreia predicted, but Mira should not die. Then a bearded old man steps to her and mumbles "I knew it! Kreia was a liar!"

 

No seriously, if the developers of Kotor III are wise (at least I want it to be that way ) they will set Kotor III decades after Kotor II, featuring a new story with fresh characters. Every character from the First 2 games (including Revan and the Exile) are dead at that time, except for a very old Dustil Onasi who obviously is a Jedi Master, teaching you, the PC the ways of the force.

 

So basically yes, I'm for killing-off all characters.

[mimartin]

if the developers of Kotor III are wise (at least I want it to be that way ) they will set Kotor III decades after Kotor II, featuring a new story with fresh characters. Every character from the First 2 games (including Revan and the Exile) are dead at that time, except for a very old Dustil Onasi who obviously is a Jedi Master, teaching you, the PC the ways of the force.

 

I agree with you on the time line being decades later, except I'd have Jolee still alive having out lived all the youngsters. He could be the one to train the PC saying "lightside, darkside if you want to live forever stay in the middle."

[khawk]

That I think, just shows a lot of incompetence. And Dustil Onasi is dead, killed by the hands of a DS Revan and his own father!

 

Seriously, if you think it would be so difficult to bring back Revan and the Exile then you probably never thought about storyline ideas which can be written by a lot of people including Jediphile / The Architect / TNova / myself and probably a lot of other people too, and we are not the professional writers.

[HerbieZ]

I always imagined the death of a major jedi character in your party about half way through the game who at the very end, comes to you as a force ghost. A sort of "One last time" thing, i think it'd be pretty quaint.

[Vaelastraz]

That I think, just shows a lot of incompetence. And Dustil Onasi is dead, killed by the hands of a DS Revan and his own father!

 

Seriously, if you think it would be so difficult to bring back Revan and the Exile then you probably never thought about storyline ideas which can be written by a lot of people including Jediphile / The Architect / TNova / myself and probably a lot of other people too, and we are not the professional writers.

 

 

I read many stories about Revan, Exile & True Sith, and I'm afraid I don't like any of them. That's just my opinion. Some are certainly good, but I simply don't like them.

For me, Revan's story is more or less finished in Kotor I. Due to Revan's action during the mandalorian war and the Jedi Civil war, the events of Kotor II happen, where the Exile's story is finished.

 

Kotor III can be based on the outcomes of that (I mean in what state the galaxy is.. destroyed, rebuild, ...). But IMO it is time to move on. With a new and fresh stories and new characters.

[steven]

I read many stories about Revan, Exile & True Sith, and I'm afraid I don't like any of them. That's just my opinion. Some are certainly good, but I simply don't like them.

For me, Revan's story is more or less finished in Kotor I. Due to Revan's action during the mandalorian war and the Jedi Civil war, the events of Kotor II happen, where the Exile's story is finished.

 

Kotor III can be based on the outcomes of that (I mean in what state the galaxy is.. destroyed, rebuild, ...). But IMO it is time to move on. With a new and fresh stories and new characters.

 

*agrees*

[igyman]

And Dustil Onasi is dead, killed by the hands of a DS Revan and his own father!

Nope, he's not (or rather, not necessarily), why?

Reason 1: the canon Revan is LS, not DS;

Reason 2: even if there is a choice to kill Dustil, it is only one of many choices;

Reason 3: there is a choice where Dustil realizes his error and leaves the Sith, which must be the canon choice, since Revan is LS in the official canon story.

[BanthaFodder01]

I know this sounds crazy but I think there should be a KOTOR III and a KOTOR IV related to this story. KOTOR III would involve you going through the galaxy getting some of the people who accompanied Revan & Exile. In KOTOR IV you go into the Unkown regions. The reason I think there should be two seperate ones is because the Unkown Regions will most likely be a very vast and huge part of the game, but also will the first part. But then again, its always possible to do both in one game.

 

-Atton and Mission would be smugglers together, Atton a rogue jedi, but both dont know eachothers history with the exile and revan. They are found at Taris, perhaps they board the ship your on and its a coincidence your looking for them.

-Zaalbar is chief of tribe on kashyyyk

-Hanharr dies in the shadowlands of Kashyyyk but its a mystery as to how

-The Handmaiden is almost a jedi knight on Rhen Var

-The Disciple (Mical?) is the Keeper of the Archives on Coruscant, however you find him breifly on Ossus.

-Bastilla and Carth are both on Coruscant, Carth still an admiral, and Bastilla on the council of the jedi order

-Mira also an admiral in the republic, shell die in KOTOR IV

- HK and T3 are sorta like C-3PO and R2..except T3 is more responsible, while HK is the kind that will blast u for fun..anyways, they are together flying the Ebon Hawk which is how u meet them, oh and they are "criminals" in a sense.

-GOTO has been destroyed

-Jolee is alive, but old and a council member however he is not a jedi master..at least he doesnt have any apprentices

-Juhani, found on Kathar killing off mercenaries and such, she is also a rogue

- Atris is dead and u find her spirit on Coruscant

- Canderous has given up his title as Mandalore and given it to his second in command (forgot his name)

- Visas is alive, but dont know where u find her

 

So that leaves 14 rofl.

 

Anyways, I didnt want to kill off anyone cause I thought all of them played a role in the story but 14 isnt that realistic I guess..but maybe it is to bring them into the Unkown Regions to fight the true sith with the exile and Revan.

[khawk]

@igyman.

There would be a lot of disappointed people if you just go "canon story". Yes, Canon story says that Revan is LS Male. Does that mean we shouldn't have a choice to create our own Revan character?

And would that also mean that our Exile is LS Female?

Well, I guess that would be nice! Revan falls in love with the Exile so Bastila and the Exile would fight over Revan. That would be funny!

Or shall we play a game 22 years after the events of Kotor II were the main character would be the child of Revan and the Exile. Even funnier!

 

Seriously now, Lucasarts wouldn't make that kind of a story with a fixed Revan and Exile. They got away with it in an action game like Dark forces II Jedi Knight where they decided that Kyle Katarn would have gone LS in the expansion disk, I forgot what it was called. But they wouldn't get away with it in an RPG. Why not? Because it is a Role Playing Game which should be build around choices. Also with your previous characters.

[igyman]

Like I said, Dustil is not necessarily dead, refer to reason 2, which I think is the best of the three.

[khawk]

True, but IMO it wouldn't be wise to include him as a party member. I would accept it if he would come back if you set Revan as LS as it is considered canon that a LS Revan would save Dustil but I think it wouldn't be a wise decision.

To many variables would make to much work = to much money. My opinion? Say that Juhani / Yuthura Ban / Dustil Onasi / Thalia May / Mekel / Dak Vesser / Kel Algwinn (any others?) died on Katarr if you set Revan as LS.

 

@BanthaFodder

Allthough it is "okay" to bring back all characters I think it is more important to be able to make decisions about your previous characters in terms of alignment / gender and perhaps their faces then to bring back all your other NPC's. Fanfic is better suited to that then the new game(s) IMO.

[Vaelastraz]

Why does setting Revan DS lead to Dustil, Yuthura, etc being dead?

 

A dark side Revan may not go around and slaughter people just for the fun of it. He may have an aim, which he wants to achieve as soon as possible. Like collecting all starmaps, and doing everything that is needed to get there. That would not involve killing Dustil.

 

I don't like to assume that a DS Revan is always an evil senseless butcher. A darkside Revan could as well be only interested in ruling the universe. Same goes for the LS Revan. That one is not obliged to help out everyone in the galaxy..

 

Or Revan might be a LS character, till the confrontation with Bastila occurs, where the temption for power just gains the upper hand.

[khawk]

That could off course be true Vaelastraz. In Kotor II certain things are simply assumed. It is assumed that LS Male Revan didn't kill Bastila, even if you could do that on the Star Forge. It is assumed that LS Revan would turn Ajunta Pall to the LS. It is assumed that Revan bought HK-47 from Yuka Laka.

Things are simply assumed on the canon storyline. That also says that Yuthura Ban was saved by LS Revan which involved quiet some work.

 

You could even never meet Dustil and don't know about him because you simply don't talk to Carth.

 

And yes, you could also go thinking that Revan was LS all the way up until the confrontation with Bastila. Off course, it is all possible.

You could say that Revan was all the way DS right until the top of the temple where he couldn't bring himself to kill Jolee and Juhani.

 

But I said before, to make a Kotor III someone need to make a storyline based on a canon LS and DS Revan or it would be a very difficult and costly project which Lucasarts would never even think about doing. They are far to DSidish and greedy for that.

[The Architect]

KotOR III should not focus on bringing back too many characters from the previous KotOR's just to please everybody as the game will suffer from the developing perspective of size and costing if it does that.

 

I say leave it up to the imagination of the player what happened to characters such as Juhani, Yuthura Ban, Dustil Onasi and Atris. For example, if Juhani, Yuthura Ban and Dustil Onasi survived the events of KotOR, or from your 'canon' point of view, they all did not die in KotOR, you can safely assume that Juhani died on Katarr (same goes with Dustil and Yuthura by the way).

 

But if Dustil and Yuthura survived but didn't end up being LS or so on, one can assume that they were killed in the big civil war the Sith had against each other on Korriban after the events of KotOR, or that they were killed when the Sith academy was bombed.

 

With Atris, if the Exile spared her, you can safely assume that the holocrons killed her, since they do not abide failure (as implied in the game). The point is, KotOR III should not bulldoze all over the players choices and say "This is what Revan and the Exile really did" and so on. A lot of variables should just remain unaddressed (as most of them aren't important and do not need to be addressed in KotOR III).

 

It's okay to bring back characters such as Mission, Zaalbar and Jolee (in cameo's or whatever) because we know for sure that if you set Revan as LS, they did not die in KotOR. But characters such as Dustil and Atris (who's fates aren't decided according to Revan and the Exile's alignment) should stay away from KotOR III.

 

I read many stories about Revan, Exile & True Sith, and I'm afraid I don't like any of them. That's just my opinion. Some are certainly good, but I simply don't like them.

For me, Revan's story is more or less finished in Kotor I. Due to Revan's action during the mandalorian war and the Jedi Civil war, the events of Kotor II happen, where the Exile's story is finished.

 

Kotor III can be based on the outcomes of that (I mean in what state the galaxy is.. destroyed, rebuild, ...). But IMO it is time to move on. With a new and fresh stories and new characters.

 

Fair enough. Have you read the introduction and part one of my KotOR III story so far? If not, here's a link...

 

http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=171405

 

Although I think I will make some changes to my story, to make it less restricting and eliminate all characters from the game who's fate isn't decided according to the alignment of Revan and the Exile.

 

I may even start it in a new timeline to allow more events to happen and to help create a more fixed beginning so that I can avoid most of the annoying variables from the previous KotOR's...