Neverwinter Nights 2 (May Contain Spoilers!! - Please Use Tags)

[Aash Li]

I dont like how ridiculously long the wait time is between attacks... its not realtime action with that delay... >_>

[Lantzen]

Chainz actualy you can use your own money to pay for uppgrades, you maybe dont have that much money, there is quite high sum. I did it with over half the things there. And stoffe i think there is a walkthorgh/tip thread about the keep at NWN2 official forum, try search there if you have to much trouble.

 

And about the dancer

 

You find a girl named Joy later in the merchant quarters, she will go to the keep to dance.

 

[ChAiNz.2da]

I dont like how ridiculously long the wait time is between attacks... its not realtime action with that delay... >_>

Agreed.

 

It does get better, eventually, once your members start getting extra attacks.. but up until that point, you can definitely tell it's a turn-based system.. hehehe

 

What's killing me is the sometimes inability to move to a certain point on the ground because some dumbass NPC doesn't get the hint to get out of the way...

 

Also, I've noticed that you or NPC's can get stuck behind placeables, especially if your NPC's 'bump' you into one because of the quirky pattern movement. The only way to get un-stuck is to have one of the other npc transition to a new area (which may or may not be 'suitable' depending on your situation). It's happened to me twice now.

 

@Zat yah, oops forgot about that

For the weapons & armor upgrades right? I meant to say for the Keep's upgrades (shops, lands, interiors, etc.) and such.. but my fingers type faster than I think hehehe

 

Now if you could (or can?) use your own money for the Keep's & land upgrades, yeah.. that'd be nice.

[Lantzen]

You can use your money to uppgrade the keep, but most thing cost around 20.000+, so thats why you maybe couldent do it. I found it out, when i had keep founds of 10.000 then tryed to buy a thing for 20.000, and i lost half my money

[SpaceAlex]

Well, it would appear the game still doesn't run perfectly on the 8800 GTX, but it still plays it much smoother than the 7800GTX. I get playable framerates outside (45 average i belive... it runs at around 30 FPS in public places and 50+ FPS indoors and non-public places) with all settings turned on (except water reflections) or set to high (1680x1050 res).

 

I still find this game to be pretty odd though, because Oblivion runs much better at max settings and HDR + 4xAA, 16xAF turned on.

[ChAiNz.2da]

You can use your money to uppgrade the keep, but most thing cost around 20.000+, so thats why you maybe couldent do it. I found it out, when i had keep founds of 10.000 then tryed to buy a thing for 20.000, and i lost half my money

Really? That's kewl.. I guess I've never tried upgrading something when my "budget" was too low for the price he was asking. Thanks for the heads up! If that works... kick arse, I'm going home and spending some money hehehe...

[stoffe]

I'd rather not screw up and have to reload an old save and redo hours worth of gameplay later, so I'll have to put the game on hold and play something else until I can get a better idea of how that "quest" is supposed to work.

 

Surprise, guess what? Uh huh, I've managed to screw up the stronghold quest before even reaching the 25% mark, and have done a few other quests in between as well. An entire evening of playing down the drain. Why did I know this would happen, but continue playing anyway...

 

Having pitifully few greycloaks who are poorly trained and only averagely equipped they are not good enough to handle any "special missions" thrown their way. And of course those special missions disappear if you don't accept them right away when offered, which I found out the hard way by missing out the first one entirely since I figured I could come back for it. The troops are not good enough to attract more people, or keep the lands or roads reasonably safe. And I'm playing on easy difficulty (which I suspect only affects combat and nothing else).

 

This game used to be fun, now I'm seriously contemplating to stop playing. Crap like this is so tiresomely annoying. How I despise management games. I want to continue playing a fun fantasy RPG, not SimFortress.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

Surprise, guess what? Uh huh, I've managed to screw up the stronghold quest before even reaching the 25% mark, and have done a few other quests in between as well. An entire evening of playing down the drain. Why did I know this would happen, but continue playing anyway...

 

Having pitifully few greycloaks who are poorly trained and only averagely equipped they are not good enough to handle any "special missions" thrown their way. And of course those special missions disappear if you don't accept them right away when offered, which I found out the hard way by missing out the first one entirely since I figured I could come back for it. The troops are not good enough to attract more people, or keep the lands or roads reasonably safe. And I'm playing on easy difficulty (which I suspect only affects combat and nothing else).

 

This game used to be fun, now I'm seriously contemplating to stop playing. Crap like this is so tiresomely annoying. How I despise management games. I want to continue playing a fun fantasy RPG, not SimFortress.

You could always check to see if there's a variable or something that could be set in order to uhh... train your Greycloaks a little faster.

[Aash Li]

I suggest waiting until the game is dicked around with more, and people figure out how to make the game less like simfortress, and get rid of the asinine long waits between attacks. *nods*

[tk102]

I suggest waiting...until people figure out how to make the game less like simfortress

Either that or be one of those people who figure it out! Think of this experience as fuel for your modding skills.

 

Speaking from naiveté, are there still .nss files that you could write? I'm thinking maybe the StartNewModule function a la "Skip the Endar Spire".

[Tysyacha]

Dumb question about levels...

 

Say I'm a Cleric, and I have the Water Domain. That means I will be able

to cast Poison (3) and Ice Storm (5). Uh...I tried getting to level 3 as a

Cleric, which was really easy, but there was no Poison spell listed in my book.

 

My guess is that you learn a new "spell level" every TWO levels, not

every ONE level. So the earliest I'd be able to cast Ice Storm would

be level 10, not level 5, if I went Cleric all the way through. Righty?

 

And if I were a Sorcerer, Ice Storm is a 4th-level spell, so I'd be

able to cast it at level 8, not level 4. Aye?

[Tupac Amaru]

Say I'm a Cleric, and I have the Water Domain. That means I will be able

to cast Poison (3) and Ice Storm (5). Uh...I tried getting to level 3 as a

Cleric, which was really easy, but there was no Poison spell listed in my book.

 

My guess is that you learn a new "spell level" every TWO levels, not

every ONE level. So the earliest I'd be able to cast Ice Storm would

be level 10, not level 5, if I went Cleric all the way through. Righty?

You are confusing spell level and character level. Ice storm is a level 5 spell. Clerics can't cast those until they reach level 9. In the case of clerics and druids, they gain access to a new spell level at uneven character levels while the other levels "only" allow you to memorize more spells. The best they can cast in this game are level 9 spells. It's a bit different for other spellcaster classes. Take a look at the spell progression tables in the appendix of the manual.

[stoffe]

Either that or be one of those people who figure it out! Think of this experience as fuel for your modding skills.

 

Speaking from naiveté, are there still .nss files that you could write? I'm thinking maybe the StartNewModule function a la "Skip the Endar Spire".

 

Well, after getting some sleep to let the irritation fade away I'm too stubborn to just give up, so I'll throw my "no cheats/mods on first playthrough" rule out the window and go that route instead. I've been poking around the CK scripts a bit to figure out how things fit together. Hopefully I can do some workaround scripts to compensate for my early screwups so I won't have to replay all that again.

 

"Skip" type mods wouldn't work as easily for this though since it's not a regular linear quest, but rather an on-going project that runs in parallel with everything else you do in the game, and I get the feeling it will continue throughout the remaining game and have significance for the main plot later how well you do it. (You could in essence achieve a "skip" type mod by rigging the scripts to always produce the most favorable outcome possible regardless of your choices, but I'd rather not go that far just yet.)

 

All NWScript source code is included for NWN2 so it's mostly a matter of figuring out how the code fits together and see what can be tampered with without breaking anything else. Since Obsidian still seems to be patching the game it's probably not a good idea to mess with the campaign modules directly, which would most likely create trouble with the auto-updater, so I'll settle for a "patch" approach with scripts that modify the same globals the keep scripts does. Fortunately there is still a console command that allows you to execute your own scripts in-game so that's a fairly simple solution.

[tk102]

Fortunately there is still a console command that allows you to execute your own scripts in-game so that's a fairly simple solution.

How thoughtful. Are there similar commands for recruiting or spawning NPCs?

 

Thanks for the info Tupac Amaru and stoffe -mkb-.

[Lantzen]

I dont think you hace screw up, recuit a sergeant and set him/her on patruling the roads when your men is patruling them, training when you men are training and so on. Also set the troops on training, buy them better wepons and shields, then set them on recrutin. And at last to guard the roads, think the roads are easier then the the other area. For you most still be able to train them, right?

[stoffe]

I dont think you hace screw up, recuit a sergeant and set him/her on patruling the roads when your men is patruling them, training when you men are training and so on. Also set the troops on training, buy them better wepons and shields, then set them on recrutin. And at last to guard the roads, think the roads are easier then the the other area. For you most still be able to train them, right?

 

Hmm, how many graycloaks is it possible to have recruited at the 25% time threshold? I currently have 72 Graycloaks and 24 Recruits.

 

I've burned through estimately 300 000 gp out of my own pocket so far to upgrade weapons, armor, fortifications and other structures in the keep. The 70000 gp Lord Gnasher supplied didn't last for much, and the keep only has a measly 3000 gp income. Still merchants, peasants and graycloaks seems to stay away from the place. Not exactly a rewarding quest where you have to shell out insane amounts of gold and still get meager results.

 

I've only found one sergeant to recruit so far, who I put on recruitment as well in hopes it would bolster the numbers, but doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

 

* * *

 

When you reach the 25% time threshold, will all recruitment, Land/Road security stats etc stop updating until you proceed with the main quest? Will you hear from the novice adventurers (I sent them to investigate the KOSH) or the special mission sent to deal with bandits (mission number 2) again, or will that wait until after you proceed beyond 25% time as well?

 

Is it possible to have gotten a decent land/road security by this threshold (I have Low for both), or that will take more time?

 

(Seems like the time updates every time you enter the Fort courtyard so if you enter/leave the inn or the merchants shop often enough the keep time advances at an insane pace.)

[Lantzen]

Yepp, the time stop at some places, then you most continue with the main quest, thinks it 25%,50% and 82%. Most of the things i payed with my own money, and it wasnt around 50-70% i got good security. And yes, you can walk out to the courtyard then in to speed up. I think you probaly have hitted the time stop, continue with the main quest and the time will start to incease again

 

Some of the sergeants you can also change, so they dont just need to recuit, i changed my sergeant, so when the men was paruling, the sergeant paruled, when they was recuting the sergeant was recuting and so on. And much of the things in the keep wont become good until later, when you got longer in the main quest

[stoffe]

Do anyone know how you switch to a female preview model in the armor set item maker window in the NWN2 Toolset? In Aurora Toolset 1 you could toggle between a male/female view with a set of radio buttons, but I can't seem to find any way to do it in the NWN2 Toolset. Help?

 

(I believe I've said it before but it's worth repeating: The NWN2 Toolset is a complete and utter disaster from a user interface perspective. It should be used as a warning textbook example for how not to design a user interface.)

[ChAiNz.2da]

(I believe I've said it before but it's worth repeating: The NWN2 Toolset is a complete and utter disaster from a user interface perspective. It should be used as a warning textbook example for how not to design a user interface.)

Amen. Hey, at least you've got to the point where you're looking how to switch a preview.. I can't even get that far The lack of intuitive interface, and the absence of a detailed right-click content menu (if you're lucky enough to even get a right-click menu) is really a poor, poor design. I still call "bulls---" when the devs say they created the OC with the same Toolset... then again, it could explain some of the errors I've caught

 

It took me 90 minutes to open a dialogue file the other night.

[tk102]

It took me 90 minutes to open a dialogue file the other night.

 

Pfft. With you and your low end systems this shouldn't be a surprise. ()

 

Do the .dlg use the same GFF format as TSL? I know the TLK file format changed a bit. I'm just wondering how many modifications it would take to get something like K-GFF or DLGEditor to work with NWN2's files.

 

Edit: (rereads "90 minutes") that must have been a very important dialog to you! I don't think I could wait longer than 90 seconds.

[ChAiNz.2da]

Pfft. With you and your low end systems this shouldn't be a surprise. ()

 

Do the .dlg use the same GFF format as TSL? I know the TLK file format changed a bit. I'm just wondering how many modifications it would take to get something like K-GFF or DLGEditor to work with NWN2's files.

 

Edit: (rereads "90 minutes") that must have been a very important dialog to you! I don't think I could wait longer than 90 seconds.

 

90 minutes, "including" the the time it took me to search, dismantle, fail horribly, re-try, stop cussing and actually finally getting the right one.. hehehe

 

The structure is either dead on, or there wasn't anything that looked "out of place". Because of the horrible (with a capital "horrible") GUI layout, I couldn't really tell you what fields were actually still there or not. Half the things I kept trying to do was in an apparent non-related, non-functional side window.. *sigh* I swear I was like a lost child in the forest... analogy: where you get so panicky you start clicking things just to see if something would work

 

Sometimes you get lucky and click on something and a field appears.. other times, not so much >.<

[tk102]

Sounds like fun!

 

Well if anyone wants to send me off a .dlg file from the game to peer at, I'm curious. PM me.

 

(Yes I have the game but I'm saving it for Xmas while I enjoy Oblivion.)

[stoffe]

I still call "bulls---" when the devs say they created the OC with the same Toolset... then again, it could explain some of the errors I've caught

 

I would think so too. If they actually used the Toolset script editor to write all those scripts the Obsidian designers should get a medal for their near-divine patience. That blasted thing constantly seems to be doing what it thinks is best for the moment, rather than what you tell it to do (including changing focus for input fields while you type, move the cursor to where it thinks it should be rather than where you click, save the script where it thinks it should be under a name of its choosing rather than just present a Save dialog box, etc).

 

Do the .dlg use the same GFF format as TSL?

 

The DLG format is rather radically different, but the GFF format seems to be mostly the same, at least in part. It's possible they have new field types I haven't run into yet in my still very limited tinkering. I've managed to edit a few UTI files with K-GFF without breaking anything at least (since the toolset seems to enjoy having some fields set as read-only. )

 

I know the TLK file format changed a bit. I'm just wondering how many modifications it would take to get something like K-GFF or DLGEditor to work with NWN2's files.

 

K-GFF seems to work, at least with some file types, as it is now. As for the DLGEditor it would likely require quite a bit of rewrites since the handling of conditional/action scripts appears to be rather different, as is the animation handling. I.e. the data fields for each entry/reply are mostly different, but the basic composition of the file (EntryList --> RepliesList --> ReplyList --> EntriesList) is still the same.

 

Have you looked at the NWN2 Toolset? Seems to be inspired by the worst parts of the Visual Studio GUI. Apparently the concept of using windows didn't appeal to the Obsidian designers. They have one big window where they have crammed in every aspect of modding in a myriad of different panels, tabs and frames in one big mess, where each panel is about the size of a postage stamp in the standard configuration if you don't have a monitor with a resolution higher than 1280x1024. No division of tasks into logical areas in their own windows, few right-click context menus and menu choices pertaining to all those tabs and frames in one big mess in the main menu bar. Lots of "property lists" with few explanations what the fields are for, and some seem to be without range and type checking of the input. Oh, and search features are of course redundant, obviously everyone already knows where all data is located.

[tk102]

K-GFF seems to work, at least with some file types, as it is now.

That makes me happy. I guess it shouldn't surprise me, but it does kind of.

As for the DLGEditor it would likely require quite a bit of rewrites since the handling of conditional/action scripts appears to be rather different, as is the animation handling. I.e. the data fields for each entry/reply are mostly different, but the basic composition of the file (EntryList --> RepliesList --> ReplyList --> EntriesList) is still the same.

I see. I imagined the animations, "emotions", soundsets, and all that might be rather different, but I thought the script portions would be relatively the same... they seemed to work rather well in TSL, IMHO.

Have you looked at the NWN2 Toolset? Seems to be inspired by the worst parts of the Visual Studio GUI. Apparently the concept of using windows didn't appeal to the Obsidian designers. They have one big window where they have crammed in every aspect of modding in a myriad of different panels, tabs and frames in one big mess, where each panel is about the size of a postage stamp in the standard configuration if you don't have a monitor with a resolution higher than 1280x1024.

Sounds a lot like DLGEditor or KSE, but at least I can blame Perl/Tk limitations. I haven't looked at the toolset much at all considering I don't have the game installed.

Oh, and search features are of course redundant, obviously everyone already knows where all data is located.

*sarcasm detected* So there's a niche for a FindRefs, I take it. Does the Toolset provide good savegame editing features?

[stoffe]

but I thought the script portions would be relatively the same... they seemed to work rather well in TSL, IMHO.

 

Apparently Obsidian disagrees. You can now have an arbitrary number of Conditional and action scripts, with an arbitrary number of parameters. Parameters are provided as normal function parameters to main() and StartingConditional() rather than having to be fetched out with specific functions. The toolset DLG editor reads the function signature and creates variable value input fields accordingly.

 

I haven't looked at the toolset much at all considering I don't have the game installed.

*sarcasm detected* So there's a niche for a FindRefs, I take it. Does the Toolset provide good savegame editing features?

 

No Savegame editing functions at all, AFAIK. If you have aspirations in that department though prepare yourself for loads of work. The savegame format is totally different in NWN, they don't appear to use ERF files for it any more. Not too surprising considering the other file type changes (using ZIP files rather than KEY/BIF being the most directly obvious one).

 

Behold, a toolset screenshot. View at your own risk.