jonathan7 Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Just watched RotJ for the millionth time, and thought I would ask you knowledgable/opinioniated lot this... When Luke goes to strike the Emporer down, why does Vader block it? I mean at the end of ESB Vader goes on about joining him and togeather killing the Emporer, so why then block it, as if Luke strikes him down, his path to the dark side has begun and Vader would then be the overall leader of the Empire. They could then rule the galazy as Father and Son. Answers/Opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totenkopf Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 He was probably still under the influence of the emperor and in very close proximity. Besides, if Vader had actually been stronger by that point, he might have killed Palpatine himself and tried to seduce Luke to become his apprentice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace MacLeod Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Vader had to see whether or not Luke had the walnuts to fight him and beat him, for starters. Sith dogma insists that the strongest should lead, so Luke would've had to actually beat Vader to prove it. Ol' Palpy wasn't just sitting there grinning IMHO, he was tempting Luke to the Dark Side by trying to get him angry enough to try to strike him. They were both trying to turn him. He had to fully turn to the Dark Side before he'd be any use to Vader or Palpatine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Devon Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I don't think that would have turned Luke fully to the dark side. Jedi have killed before. And Palpatine probably could've stopped Luke. He can use the Force. And as Lucas has stated Vader is 8/10ths as powerful as the Emperor, I don't think he wanted to risk fighting his master when his son's loyalties were in doubt. Or it could've been a reflex. Vader didn't have much time to think it through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Lady Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 On another note, watch the blades as they cross in front of the Emperor. Luke's blade is clearly the closest to the Emperor, so why didn't he just kill him with a slash to the side? I know it's probably a glitch or a mistake, but something to think about nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Because George said so in the script. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayden Kered Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Look back when Luke turned himself in, and Vader was talking with him before departing to the Death Star. Vader had said "Your skills are complete. Indeed you are powerful as the Emperor has forseen". I think he feared that Luke was stronger than him, and if that being the case, he feared Luke would become the Emperor. It's the same thing as running for office. Vader wanted the power and did not allow Luke to claim it. Also, in ESB when Vader tried to persuade Luke into joining him to over throw the Emperor, Luke was still in training. So vader was trying to turn him before Luke became a Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth InSidious Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Two words: Battle Meditation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Wasn't it because he suddenly turned light-side in one of the most Star-Warsy ways possible? If not, then because he always wanted a sort of revenge against Palpatine, but was too weak in the end to do it himself, so he waits for his uber-powerful son to do the job. He was a plotting, revenging, double-crossing Sith, in the end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Reign Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Vader's actions on Endore do not seem Sithy. His voice protrays emotion and not someone looking for power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbieZ Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I think by this point in the story, he's realized that he's going nowhere. Remember, he finds out his son is alive in ESB so from that point on we can assume it builds in his mind. When he sees his son being mullered by the emporer, he could'nt take no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Never fear, LFN SW/EU Historian Astro is here Looking for clues in the ROTJ and ROTS script/script drafts and novelisation. There are a few elements to consider: 1. Vader wasnt fully convinced yet of his propensity to go against the emperor ..."It is too late for me, son" 2. Vader didnt know about Leia...he had to yank it out of Luke's mind remember!! "so...you have a twin sister...." I think this more than anything would have reminded him of Padme and his love for her. 3. Sidious was quite capable of defeating both in normal battle conditions. He cut down 5 of the greatest jedi saberists of all time(including Yoda) What makes you think he couldn't defeat a clunky half robot and a kid with a couple of years training ??? 4. The element of surprise in Vader's attack on Sidious was vital to its success....it still cost Vader his life though... and, most importantly - for the purposes of telling the story: 5. George Lucas wanted it that way mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Source Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Vader's actions on Endore do not seem Sithy. His voice protrays emotion and not someone looking for power. I think by this point in the story, he's realized that he's going nowhere. Remember, he finds out his son is alive in ESB so from that point on we can assume it builds in his mind. When he sees his son being mullered by the emporer, he could'nt take no more. After seeing the Emporer and Luke confront each other, I think there was a sense of illumination in Vader. Everything that went on before-hand had come to light. His perspective on Jedi was flawed, and Luke had shown him that they were not war and power hungry. In a way, Luke represented what Vader wanted to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace MacLeod Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 1. Vader wasnt fully convinced yet of his propensity to go against the emperor. It was only at the very end where Palpy was zapping Luke that Vader finally snapped. I am firmly convinced that Vader's enticement to a newly-handless Luke on Bespin was just a line to try and turn Luke. 2. Vader didnt know about Leia...he had to yank it out of Luke's mind remember!! I think this more than anything would have reminded him of Padme and his love for her. Hmm. Yeah, could be. But then GL hadn't even written the story for Padme yet. 3. Sidious was quite capable of defeating both in normal battle conditions. He cut down 5 of the greatest jedi saberists of all time(including Yoda) What makes you think he couldn't defeat a clunky half robot and a kid with a couple of years training ???Definitely true. He was just playing possum with Luke while sitting in the EmpireChair. He didn't want Luke to "strike him down", he wanted Luke to try. 4. The element of surprise in Vader's attack on Sidious was vital to its success....it still cost Vader his life though...Yup. and, most importantly - for the purposes of telling the story: 5. George Lucas wanted it that way Always seems to come back to that, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mivoci1 Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I think that Vader allowed his son to kill Palpy he would completly turn to the Dark Side when Luke slice off Vader's arm I think that was revenge for slicing his hand in his first duel with Vader but Skywalker was to weak to finish Vader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Source Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I think that Vader allowed his son to kill Palpy he would completly turn to the Dark Side when Luke slice off Vader's arm I think that was revenge for slicing his hand in his first duel with Vader but Skywalker was to weak to finish Vader For a brief moment, Luke gave into his darkside. When he didn't fully turn, Vader realized that anyone could be redeemed. In Return of the Jedi, Palpatine does play on Vader's cognitions. There is a scene where Vader approaches Palpatine about Luke's arrival to Endore. Vader was questioning an inner conflict. Vader comes off as a tool of Palpatines, and he doesn't really seem like a Sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayden Kered Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 I think there was a sense of illumination in Vader. Of course there was, see: Sorry, I couldn't resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 ^^^ROFL! I am firmly convinced that Vader's enticement to a newly-handless Luke on Bespin was just a line to try and turn Luke. I don't think so. Vader wanted to supplant Palpatine, but he knew that he wasn't powerful enough. He also knew that if he could turn Luke and complete his training, that Luke had the potential to become as powerful as he could have before Obi-Wan PWNED him in RotS. I believe that there was at least an element of truth in his offer to Luke in ESB. The team-up of Vader and a fully trained Sith Luke could have indeed dispensed with Palpy, IMO, and ruled the galaxy together as father and son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Devon Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Not completely, Qliveur. A fully-trained Luke would have been more powerful than Vader. One who was half or so as much as he was would have been enough to get rid of Palpatine, but have the father be the Emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share Posted November 10, 2006 3. Sidious was quite capable of defeating both in normal battle conditions. He cut down 5 of the greatest jedi saberists of all time(including Yoda) What makes you think he couldn't defeat a clunky half robot and a kid with a couple of years training ??? I think all the points you made were good apart from this, Sidious and Yoda drew IMHO, Sidious also lost to Mace Windu there are those who say he planned it that way for anakin to arrive, personally given how careful Palpatine was i dont think he would have planned this as there is an element of risk to himself, however given how coniving he was i can see why people would think that. But i personally believe Yoda and Sidious drew, as it was a clash of force powers that meant Yoda fell, as he had pretty much just gained the upper hand but then falls loosing his lightsaber, therefore he couldnt really continue the fight. But anyways, I do agree that Luke and Vader couldnt of taken Sidious, especially considering did they have the training to block force lightning with there lightsabres? (anakin fails in AotC, when Dooki takes him) luke would never have encountered anything like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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