Revan VS. Nihilus... who would win

[JediMasterJambi]

If Nihilus could have drained Revan, then I don't see why he didn't just drain Kreia of her power when Scion and Nih took her down.

 

Kreia was the master of all 3. Revan, Scion, and Nihilus. But unlike Scion, and Nihilus, didn't Kreia admit that Revan was more powerful than herself?

 

If Nihilus couldn't drain Kreia, then he can't drain Revan either.

[GarfieldJL]

Actually I think Nihilus did drain Kreia, however Revan had long surpassed Kreia. So it's anyones guess as to whether or not he would be able to resist Nihilus' attempts to feed.

[Emperor Devon]

If Nihilus could have drained Revan, then I don't see why he didn't just drain Kreia

 

Key word. Whether Nihilus actually bothered to drain Kreia or not is entirely unrelated to whether he was capable of doing so.

 

Actually I think Nihilus did drain Kreia, however Revan had long surpassed Kreia.

 

From what we see in the game I don't think he wanted to - Kreia says he subjugated her to many "indignities" instead. Nothing at all is mentioned about any attempts to drain her, which as a "normal" Force-sensitive she would not have survived.

 

I dunno about the surpassed part... He's probably better than her but not by a whole lot. Revan isn't some all-powerful Force God.

[GarfieldJL]

Never said Revan was, but remember he managed to beat Malak without his full memories, regaining abilities and gaining additional ones in a ridiculously short period of time.

 

Kreia said flat out that Revan was power, like the heart of the force, it was obvious he was more powerful than she was.

[The Architect]

Revan would win no doubt. It took not just one Jedi but an entire Jedi Council to erase his mind and still he remembered.

 

Umm… they didn’t erase Revan’s mind. They reprogrammed it. After Revan found out who he/she really was, it was only a matter of time before his/her memories returned.

 

Not only that but he was comunicating to Bastila through dreams.

 

So what? They shared a powerful force bond (caused by… well you played the game, so I don’t have to explain it). I didn’t know that Revan could “communicate” with Bastila via “dreams”. All I learned was that Bastila saw the same “visions” Revan saw in the game.

 

Revan might also be a wound in the force a much more powerful one than the exile. Since he left the force much more than the exile did. Just think the exile left the force knowing it exsisted. Revan left the force and than the council put the history of the galaxy in him making him know abbout the force.

 

On that basis, Luke might also be a wound in the force. So might Anakin, so might Yoda, so might Obi-Wan… see where this is going? But no, Revan wasn’t a wound in the force. No one ever cut Revan off from the force. Revan never cut himself/herself off from the force, so what have you based this on? Fanboyism perhaps?

 

Revan didn’t lose his/her connection to the force per se. His/her mind being programmed (causing him/her to forget what he/she remembered) and severe injuries to his/her head “weakened” his/her force connection (to level 1 status in game-play terms). Revan never left the force. Where did you get that from?

 

When Revan was on the verge of becoming a padawan again on Dantooine in such a short amount of time, he/she began to unknowingly at the time remember his/her training. The more Revan’s adventure continued, the more he/she unknowingly remembered his/her training, hence the reason why he/she goes from a weakling to a very powerful force user in a matter of what… weeks, or months (however long the events of KotOR from beginning to end spanned out)?

 

It would take Nihilus a while to be able to kill Revan probably through meditation.

 

Hahaha! Darth Nihilus wiped out an entire planet of Jedi from orbit, meaning he can detect force users, especially powerful ones, from thousands of miles away and drain their force connection. So Revan couldn’t get anywhere near Nihilus to begin with, so in other words, he/she has ZERO chance of winning.

 

I doubt that one ex-Sith Lord is going to be too much trouble to drain for Nihilus, unless you foolishly believe that Revan is more powerful than hundreds of Jedi put together, which is just nonsensical beyond reason. Besides, more powerful than average force users like Revan = bigger plate of food for Nihilus, since there’s even more force for Nihilus to drain.

 

I voted Revan. Exile beat him. yes, I know he was a wound in the Force, thus could not be sucked up, but Revan was the heart of the force.

 

Yes, I know that means Revan will be sucked dry, but he is a vacume of Power. If the force had a god, it would be Revan. He would manipulate the force to turn it upon Nihilus himself, swallowing himself in his own power.

 

No, Revan wasn’t the heart of the force. Revan is not Anakin. Kreia was using a simile to describe Revan’s power. She said staring into Revan WAS LIKE staring into the heart of the force.

 

There is one HUGE point some people are missing. Some people use the “Revan is so much more powerful than Nihilus, therefore he/she would win” argument to support Revan, but all it does is SUPPORT Nihilus, since as I’ve said, more powerful force user = lovely meal for Nihilus.

 

And Revan certainly WAS NOT more powerful than Nihilus. Revan is powerful yes, but there’s no way he/she could drain the life of an entire planet, like Nihilus could (only because of his inhumane, zombie-like void in the force status mind you).

[Titanius Anglesmith]

Revan would win no doubt. It took not just one Jedi but an entire Jedi Council to erase his mind and still he remembered. Not only that but he was comunicating to Bastila through dreams. Revan might also be a wound in the force a much more powerful one than the exile. Since he left the force much more than the exile did. Just think the exile left the force knowing it exsisted. Revan left the force and than the council put the history of the galaxy in him making him know abbout the force.

And what does any of that have to do with whether Revan could win? So what if he could share dreams with some else or remember who he was even though the council reprogrammed his mind.

 

Where is the evidence that Revan was a wound in the Force, or are you just saying that because you like Revan and you want him to be able to kill Nihilus?

 

 

It would take Nihilus a while to be able to kill Revan probably through meditation. But Revan also knew powers in which there was no defence.

Once again, where is the evidence for this? How do you know it would take a while for Nihilus do drain Revan? And pardon me, but nowhere does it say that Revan has powers to which there is no defense.

 

 

I know he was a wound in the Force, thus could not be sucked up, but Revan was the heart of the force.

That "Heart of the Force" thing was only Kreia's opinion, and even if it were fact, it would make Revan all the more tasty to Nihilus. The Force is the very thing he eats for dinner every day, so if Revan was some "heart" of it, he would be like some big plate of steaming fried rice and chicken.

 

 

Look at me, I'm being a stubborn Revan fanboy!

Aren't they all nowadays?

 

 

If Revan showed up with a few Ysalamari, he'd win hands down.

1.) Ysalimiri come from Myrkr, and since the planet wasn't even settled until 300 BBY, no one could really find any Ysalimir, now could they?

 

2.) If he was somehow able to find some Ysalimiri, it wouldn't be Revan winning, it would be the Ysalimiri.

 

 

Revan isn't some all-powerful Force God.

QFE

[JediMasterJambi]

I'm still not convinced. If Darth Nihilus is this huge ultimate evil, I don't see how KOTOR 1 even took place.

Why didn't Nihilus just kill Revan, Kreia, HELL, EVERYONE then?

 

Somthings not right, Nihilus has a weak point that dosn't allow him to drain certain people. I think he didn't drain Kreia because he couldn't, and if Revan surpassed Kreia, then he can't be drained either.

 

KOTOR 1 took place because Revan was stronger than Darth Nihilus, and Nihilus was kept in check until Revan dissapeared. Then he made his move.

[The Architect]

I'm still not convinced. If Darth Nihilus is this huge ultimate evil, I don't see how KOTOR 1 even took place.

Why didn't Nihilus just kill Revan, Kreia, HELL, EVERYONE then?

 

Somthings not right, Nihilus has a weak point that dosn't allow him to drain certain people. I think he didn't drain Kreia because he couldn't, and if Revan surpassed Kreia, then he can't be drained either.

 

KOTOR 1 took place because Revan was stronger than Darth Nihilus, and Nihilus was kept in check until Revan dissapeared. Then he made his move.

 

This probably won’t answer your question but your question is the main reason why I believe Jediphile’s theory that Darth Nihilus is a dark manifestation of the Exile. If I could be bothered enough to explain (and hopefully answer your question, I would) but I can’t.

 

Sorry. I’ll let Jediphile answer it… if he checks this thread again and chooses to that is of course. Well basically, the more time Nihilus remained “disconnected” with the Exile, the more powerful he becomes, and the more powerful his hunger addiction becomes (how much he relies on it; needs it).

 

And at the beginning of TSL, going by this theory, Nihilus has been disconnected with the Exile for ten years, so… He was most likely the equivalent of one of those measly TSL Sith assassins during the events of KotOR. In other words, his draining abilities were quite petit back in the day.

 

Or it could just be that it took a while for Darth Nihilus’ draining abilities to advance. Either way, if he could do what he did to Katarr during the events of KotOR, he’d have a fill day. Or it’s a plot hole… there is no explanation. BioWare didn’t create Nihilus. You see where this is going. I do believe Jediphile’s theory however.

[JediMasterJambi]

This probably won’t answer your question but your question is the main reason why I believe Jediphile’s theory that Darth Nihilus is a dark manifestation of the Exile. If I could be bothered enough to explain (and hopefully answer your question, I would) but I can’t.

 

Sorry. I’ll let Jediphile answer it… if he checks this thread again and chooses to that is of course. Well basically, the more time Nihilus remained “disconnected” with the Exile, the more powerful he becomes, and the more powerful his hunger addiction becomes (how much he relies on it; needs it).

 

And at the beginning of TSL, going by this theory, Nihilus has been disconnected with the Exile for ten years, so… He was most likely the equivalent of one of those measly TSL Sith assassins during the events of KotOR. In other words, his draining abilities were quite petit back in the day.

 

Or it could just be that it took a while for Darth Nihilus’ draining abilities to advance. Either way, if he could do what he did to Katarr during the events of KotOR, he’d have a fill day. Or it’s a plot hole… there is no explanation. BioWare didn’t create Nihilus. You see where this is going. I do believe Jediphile’s theory however.

 

Then I await the Return of The Jedi...phile > . < GOD THAT WAS SO CORNY I CAN ACTUALLY TASTE THE CORN RIGHT NOW!~!! > . <

[The Architect]

Then I await the Return of The Jedi...phile > . < GOD THAT WAS SO CORNY I CAN ACTUALLY TASTE THE CORN RIGHT NOW!~!! > . <

 

 

No it was funny. You saying that it’s corny an all helped the joke as well.

 

Uh, damn you Batman? I don’t understand that though. {Confused}

 

I am not Batman! I’m a… well, my username is a big clue *wink wink*.

 

I’m not really an architect by the way. I mean, have you ever heard of a 17 year old architect? Well, maybe you have (probably in your dreams/or when on drugs or something if you have), but I certainly haven’t… heard of 17 year old architects that is.

 

In an attempt to make this post not entirely spamalicious and stay on topic: Nihilus would eat Revan for breakfast… literally by the way.

[Marauder's Fury]

Revan, hands down.

 

1. Most probably, Revan was far more knowledgeable in the mechanics of the Force than any Jedi Master; he walked on the surface of Malachor V and studied at the Trayus Academy, thus having access to God knows how terrible secrets of the Force, while the members of the Council were busy sitting on their butts (or just standing there like idiots) and assessing? the Mandalorian threat. He'd no doubt find a way to counter Nihilus' power, where any other Force sensitive individuals (including Masters such as Vandar) had failed.

 

2. From what I gather, Revan was tremendously efficient in Force bonding, maybe as good as the Exile in this regard. What's better, he *knew* what he was doing and was in control of his bonding power. He had studied it extensively, and he'd be able to use his power more effectively than the Exile, who even had no clue about what kind of powers she possessed. Revan would just bond Nihilus to himself, turning his drain power into a continuous cycle of Force transfer, only to be ended by a masterful strike of Revan's lightsaber.

[Jediphile]

Rather than go through a lengthy explanation of my Nihilus-theory, which is not completely relevant to this topic, I was going to simply link to it on Obsidian's board, but it seems the original topic has now been deleted - curses!

 

Instead, I have begun a separate thread for this discussion. Feel free to comment there.

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?p=2305090#post2305090

 

Oh, and Revan wouldn't have a prayer. Nihilus would - quite literally - eat him for dinner

[GarfieldJL]

I think Revan would come up with a way to kill Nihilus. Seriously, Revan has done what was thought to be impossible before.

[Jediphile]

I think Revan would come up with a way to kill Nihilus. Seriously, Revan has done what was thought to be impossible before.

 

I have no quarrel or doubt about Revan's strategic abilities. If that comes into play, then I'd put my money on Revan. However, I think in this case we're talking about a straight one-on-one fight, and I don't see how Revan could possibly win that. Nihilus could drain him dry long before Revan ever got close enough to do anything to him.

[GarfieldJL]

He mopped the floor with Malak and he shouldn't have been to do that without his memories.

[SilentScope001]

He mopped the floor with Malak and he shouldn't have been to do that without his memories.

 

Well, without his power or his Force potential. Revan does not need to remember anything about True Sith to become a killing machine. He just need the Force potential, which is inherited from blood.

 

And, of course, Malak can't steal other people's force energy. Nihilus can.

[GarfieldJL]

Well, without his power or his Force potential. Revan does not need to remember anything about True Sith to become a killing machine. He just need the Force potential, which is inherited from blood.

 

And, of course, Malak can't steal other people's force energy. Nihilus can.

 

 

Correction, Malak used the Star Forge to do just that.

[Jediphile]

Correction, Malak used the Star Forge to do just that.

 

Which means that while the Starforge can do something similar - I don't agree it's the same - Malak himself cannot.

[DeadYorick]

I am glad that debates still exist in starwars.

 

But in reality if this was in KOTOR 2 hidden footage i'm guessing that Revan and Nihilus would have a stalemate since Revan has hidden potential and we still do not know what else he did in his power.

 

But there is also Nihilus's draining ability. Well Nihilus is the most mysterious character in KOTOR 2. The only way you can understand it is if you read between the lines a little and uncover the truth. But there is also another option. Nihilus could have a hidden weakness we do not know of.

 

Regardless it matters on if its in a KOTOR game. If it was that would mean Revan would win since all the fans would start crying to Lucas. But since Nihilus is an antagonist he would probably lose.

 

There are many different outcomes. It really depends on what you look towards.

[SilentScope001]

Nihilus could have a hidden weakness we do not know of.

 

He did. The Exile.

[The Architect]

Revan, hands down.

 

1. Most probably, Revan was far more knowledgeable in the mechanics of the Force than any Jedi Master; he walked on the surface of Malachor V and studied at the Trayus Academy, thus having access to God knows how terrible secrets of the Force, while the members of the Council were busy sitting on their butts (or just standing there like idiots) and assessing? the Mandalorian threat. He'd no doubt find a way to counter Nihilus' power, where any other Force sensitive individuals (including Masters such as Vandar) had failed.

 

That is nothing but speculation, that Revan would no doubt find a way to counter Nihilus’ draining power. We should only base our arguments on what has been established in the games (and other canon sources outside of the games, but related to the games).

 

Because otherwise you can just make up anything you want. Does an anti-Nihilus power exist? Well yes… the Exile is that power, technically speaking. But does an anti-Nihilus power apart from the Exile exist? Perhaps. Maybe there is; maybe there isn’t. We don’t know do we?

 

I would have to say no however, since in cut content, Darth Sion couldn’t defend himself at all against Darth Nihilus, and Darth Traya knew of no technique that would negate Nihilus’ force draining power.

 

If she did, there’s no question she’d tell the Exile what it is, since she desperately wants Nihilus to be stopped in TSL. And you see, Sion and Traya without doubt had accessed to and studied at the Trayus Academy, and since they didn’t discover any anti-Nihilus power, I doubt Revan did either.

 

Anyhow, if you want to play the supposition game to support Revan, I can assume that an anti-anti Nihilus power exists, can’t I? In my humble opinion, there is no such thing as an anti-Nihilus force power that regular force users like Revan could use in his/her defence.

 

2. From what I gather' date=' Revan was tremendously efficient in Force bonding, maybe as good as the Exile in this regard. What's better, he *knew* what he was doing and was in control of his bonding power. He had studied it extensively, and he'd be able to use his power more effectively than the Exile, who even had no clue about what kind of powers she possessed. Revan would just bond Nihilus to himself, turning his drain power into a continuous cycle of Force transfer, only to be ended by a masterful strike of Revan's lightsaber.[/quote']

 

Seriously, that is nothing but speculation. That sounds just like fan-boy nonsense crap to me. Sorry, but it does.

 

Revan would just bond Nihilus to himself/herself?

 

First off, do you agree that Revan would have to get close to Nihilus in the first place to do this? If so, well, your argument has already been defeated.

 

Because Nihilus drained the entire life of a planet from orbit, meaning that he can detect force users from thousands of miles away and use his power from that distance. So how the hell could Revan get anywhere near Nihilus, without him detecting his/her powerful force sensitivity, and then eating him/her for breakfast?

 

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Nihilus would kill Revan for sure. No question. I wish the Revan fan-boys would stop letting their huge bias get in the way of their arguments. It truthfully is as irritating as Malak’s laugh.

[Marauder's Fury]

Architect, I'm no Revan fanboy. I play KotOR and TSL for fun, but I would never get ahead of myself in such a manner.

 

Believe what you will, but I'm not still convinced. Seeing how Revan is portrayed in both games, he doesn't strike me as inferior to a joke such as Nihilus. If he had any slightest weakness against even such a tremendous power, I suppose Kreia of all people would call him a fool and an imbecile for going to fight the True Sith single-handedly. He sounds more like a person so knowledgeable and efficient in wielding the Force, that he wouldn't have much trouble finding a way around Nihilus' power.

 

Anyway, speculation is what we all do here. It is what you do, what I do, what everyone else do. This is fiction, for crying out loud. The more seriously you take it, the more amusing it gets (Nihilus' drain, anyone?).

[Christos K]

Architect, You have to remember what I said and that Marauder's Fury said. Revan found the Trayus Academy and I know I read somewhere probably on wookiepedia that Revan had learded all of the Trayus Academy secrets meaning Nihilus' power, Sion's power, and Traya's power. Now here is some things that I think: Kreia would not let Nihilus learn something beyond her control, I do not think Revan to trust anyone with the academmy except Kreia, Nihilus would have learned that he could be stopped by the exile or any other wound in the force. Here is a fact Palpatine was able to trick the entire Jedi Council, including two powerful jedi masters yoda and windu, that he was not strong in the force. Now that would be hard. Revan would have been able to hide his power from Nihilus unless Revan was so strong that he could not conseal all his force sensitivity. I am no Revan fan boy I just think Revan is a cool and very popular star wars character. And god, your making it sound like every one who votes or supports Revan hates Nihilus.

[Jediphile]

Architect, You have to remember what I said and that Marauder's Fury said. Revan found the Trayus Academy and I know I read somewhere probably on wookiepedia that Revan had learded all of the Trayus Academy secrets meaning Nihilus' power, Sion's power, and Traya's power.

 

A slight problem with that theory, though...

 

Kreia (about Nihilus): "It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves... it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes.It cannot be taught... it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand."

 

So no, Revan could have learned it because that is not possible. Besides, Kreia has been in the Trayus Academy longer than Revan, and while we can argue her strength in the force next to Revan's, she is far more of a scholar than Revan will ever be. So I think it's fair to assume that if the power could be learned, or defended against, then Kreia would have learned both. And yet she says, even as we see the cutscene where Nihilus unpowers her:

 

Kreia: "There are techniques within the Force against which there is no defense."

[Vaelastraz]

I think Revan would have no problem in getting Nihilus eliminated, after all Nihilus doesn't seem to be used to thinking. Or planning.

 

However, it is obvious that Revan could not eliminate him in single combat, without some help unknown to us. A Ysalamiri for example.

 

@: Jediphile

Wasn't that power which Kreia used to instantly kill 3 powerful Jedi Masters Force drain too? It definitly seems like it. And it looks like it worked so fast, that there would be no defend against it. Is that the same ability Nihilus has, or is it just another uncounterable instantly-lethal force drain?