The True Sith Does Not Exist...

[SilentScope001]

But this is what I hate about TSL, LA left too many branches of the story hanging. Yes most likely to set the stage for a third and final installment, but until that ever happens we'll never know for sure.

 

I actually like it. It allows for speculation and get people to come up with their own views and beliefs. Sure, it may be lazy storywriting, but it may also be a throwback to the games like Marathon where they don't tell everything, and people must debate and figure out what happens.

[TKA-001]

So the True Sith is composed of force ghosts and holocrons who try to convince people into doing their dirty work? Give me a break.

[PoiuyWired]

Actually it would be nice if its a bunch of force ghost trying to posess people and take their body as their own. Remember what Exar Kun release? Things like that would be fun.

 

Especially fun if one of them took over one of your party member halfway(or even lover), tempting you to the darkside slowly, and suddenly turn against you during that important moment if you stay lightside.

 

It actually makes sense, why Exile/Revan have to go there alone. Oh and it would make a nice game, with all plots and drama and betrayal. Fits Traya's warning, and fits why Revan would need many guns to do the job... kill them all and let the sith sort them out.

[The Architect]

Architect there are flaws within your idea.

 

Wait wait wait. This isn't the idea that I'd use if I was writing the story for K3. It was just a rough example that was supposed to demonstrate that their is potential for many different enemies in K3 apart from the 'True Sith'.

 

1) After K2 the Exchange was crippled, so it seems, afterall their main operations decimated by an unkown person. If there is a crime faction of some type it will most likely be the Hutts.

 

Okay, so even if the Exchange was crippled after K2, why do they have to be wiped out between one month to five years after K2?

 

2) The sith artifacts survive, they are mentioned later on in SW lore. So you cant have the mission be "destroy all sith artifacts" because it cannot happen or it will contradict SW lore.

 

I never said 'all Sith artifacts' would be destroyed. It could just be a few Sith artifacts that the 'True Sith' masters are protecting, keeping and using, to corrupt others. Basically all artifacts that the 'True Sith' just have.

 

The bottom line IMO is, I would find it to be very lame and disappointing if it turns out the 'True Sith' are some massive empire that were just waiting all this time in the unknown regions. How lame. I want something more than that.

 

Besides, the Sith didn't play that 'wait for centuries' game until Darth Bane came about, and he made the rule of two, which was the reason why the Sith were able to hide and spy on their enemy, until the Chosen One came about and Palpatine was in power.

[Ben Bryddia]

"Dangerous and disturbing this puzzle is." : First off, we must define "true Sith". There is a quote from Darth Bane: Path of Destruction "Revan was a true Sith not like Kaan and his simpering fools." True Sith here means that the Brotherhood of Darkness were not proper Sith, but pretenders who only used the title Sith but actually tried to emulate the Jedi "all for one and one for all" philosiphy with their rules like, students shouldn't kill each other without permission, nobody uses the challenging "Darth" title and don't try every thing you think will work to claw your way to the top and subject everyone else. Then there be the KotOR loading screen "True Sith died out centuries ago, the Sith of today are fallowers of the Sith ideal." Okay, so I messed the quote up, the message is the same. True Sith here means the Sith species, not the Sith Lords. I rather got the impression that Bane and Traya were on the same page as far as what a "true Sith" was, that is, someone who is guilefull, who takes what they want, and never shares their power. Somone who will scheme and betray and delve into the most dangerous nether regions of the Force to get what they want. Wereas it may be noted that the Sith fought in KotOR 2 were willing to share power. But I said "rather" which does not denote a certain theory. I don't consider SilenScope001's theory to be valid, however. Kun and Qel-Droma were not coerced or possessed by anything but thier own sinfullness (no I don't really count Satal's Sith poisen as a form of possession) Also may I point out that the artifacts, in this case amulets, did the sumaning of the Sith ghosts, the Dark Lords would not have come had they not been summand. I find the "True Sith" (Not, of course, refering to the uses of the term explained abouf.) theory about them being a rmnant of the original Sith Empire very likley. Not that it realy pertains to this discussion, but I'll leave thee with the still huanting words of Marka Ragnos (according to Bane's definition, a true Sith lord) "Exar Kun, becuase of you the Sith will never die, for this you have earned the title of Dark Lord of the Sith.":cheers:

 

-Bearer of the Krijinia.

[Darth Xander]

At least, not in physical form. The Sith is not a race...it is merely an idea.

 

This is a speculation that will be proven wrong once K3 comes around, but until then...

 

I speculate that the True Sith do not exist as aliens or as humans, or as any mortal being. I speculate that the True Sith Empire has already been destroyed, but the people are still alive, living holocrons or sith relics, or transformed themselves into Force Ghosts and Sith Spirits. They want to destroy the Republic, and want to take it over, as revenge for their loss in the Great Hyperspace War. All of them are defenders and creators of the idea of the Sith, and they are willing to do whatever it takes to have the Sith win. It is they who are waging the "war of ideology" that Canderous talked about in the cut content.

 

I need some sort of example to prove this...Exar Kun, for instance, fell to the Dark Side by Freedom Nadd and other Sith Lords upon Korriban and Yavin IV. These people corrupted Exar Kun and made him a slave, before Exar Kun killed the ghost of Freedom Nadd.

 

And then...from http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Exar_Kun

 

 

 

With this scene, I believe that the True Sith strikes from holocrons, and centers of learning, where they can corrupt. Their main goal is to convert people to their cause, and then contorl them. Here, the Sith used Exar Kun and Ulic to bring back the "Golden Era of the Sith". Both Exar Kun and Ulic want to lead such a Golden Era and allied themselves to the Sith spirits, not knowing that they were in fact being contorlled by the Sith spirits, who want to be the power behind the throne. Exar Kun and Ulic would do all the heavy-duty work in restoring the Empire...but the Sith Spirits would get all the glory in running it.

 

Prehaps Revan saw the spirits of the True Sith, and turned away from its will. But, he fell to the Dark Side in the process. Revan still kept his love for the Republic and therefore decided to go on a crusade to get rid of this enemy. By creating a new Sith Empire, one that everyone will love, then people would be totally converted over by Revan's Sith Beliefs that nobody would pay attentio to the Sith leaders of the old. They would worry about the now. If nobody listens to the Sith Empire's holocrons, then they are defeated. Revan's plan failed.

 

If so, three questions can be answered:

 

-Why did Kreia claim that the "machines" of the Sith were not really Sith?

A: Because they were not really Sith. They were Rakatan technology.

 

-Why did Revan leave his allies?

A: They can be converted by the True Sith...or the True Sith may put them in jeoporady, forcing Revan to fall to save them. Or prehaps Revan might fall, and by letting his allies stay in the galaxy, he would ensure that the allies will not fall alongside him.

 

-How can Revan destroy the True Sith?

A: By destroying every single Sith Holocron and Centers of Learning that the Sith Empire has built. It will take awhile.

 

But, I can be wrong. In fact, I proberly am wrong. Tear this theory apart as you will. It just somehow fits with what Kreia is stating, that the Sith is an idea...

Are you talking about the Sith'ari?

[SilentScope001]

Are you talking about the Sith'ari?

 

No. I'm talking about True Sith, the threat that Kreia and Revan hated. I am claiming that the True Sith are spirits lying in holocrons.

[Rev7]

Probably the only thing that I can put into this thread is that on a loading screen on KOTOR 2 it says that the "True Sith" fled to the Unknown Regions. How that helps i have no idea but I felt that I needed to put my two cents in.

[Allronix]

Y'see, and I'm Of the opinion that It's not really an Empire. It's not machines, or Sith Lords, or battlefields.

 

It's the knowledge of how to use the Force.

It is the knowledge the Force can and should be divided into Light and Dark, Ashala and Bogan. It's the schism that began with the first factions on Tython started to debate on what to do with their discovery.

It's the belief that the Dark Side is superior and more natural than light, that it will inevitably win.

It's embracing a mentality necessary to bring about that inevitable victory, and power to be had if you choose to back that winner.

 

It is an ideal and a thought - nothing that can be defeated with sabers or blasters.

 

The nastiest bits of Sith knowledge are held in archives through the Unknown Regions, in places like Malachor, watched over by archivists like Traya and a DS Exile.

[BigMike322]

It's not a bad theory, and it fits in with the comic storylines.

[Rev7]

It is true that the dark side is more natural an fun (hehehe) but you are forced to make a choice..... and sometimes you relapse.... those things are inevitable.

 

The true sith did exist at one time in star wars history, we know that they fled to the unknown regions and possibly became extinct, or their numbers are thriving...we just don't know at this point in time.

[Christos K]

I like SilentScope's idea. But the enemies could have the artifacts of the True Sith. The sith are known to corrupt others. How easily could the true sith have found a way to get the artifacts to the most powerful people in the galaxy, politically not physically, like the most powerful Exchange leader and others, even hutts. They could posess them. But this is one thing I have never found out, in the times of KotOR did they have cloning? If they did maybe the True Sith were behind it. knowing they might even be able to bring back their boddies and posses them meaning even if they died they could escape the body and clone the body again. Also I believe that Revan asked Kreia to find someone to send into the unknown, the exile, I also believe that their is still something to learn from Nihilus. I mean if he could posess such power from such a odd death. Then what could the True Sith posess spirit or not. Also for those who think that their would not be many enemies in the game if they were not actually alive you are wrong. What happened to the idea that the Sith Spirits are the true leaders behind the throne waiting for their time to come back and live. Also I have an idea the Revan might also have to battle Rodar Wizards. I mean the Rodar Wizards could very much be the next enemy. After all they created many powerful objects.

[JoeDoe 2.0]

Well, as many pointed out, the True Sith existed millions of years ago in a galaxy far far away. They probably killed each other (hey, they're Sith after all) or were defeated by the Jedi or something else happened to them. The Sith after them we're not Sith, but Dark Jedi who assumed the Mantle of Dark lords of the Sith by learning Sith knowledge found in Korriban (the First Jedi Civil War I believe, as told by Kreia) and the rest is history.

[lordofmalachor]

i like it. one of the best theories i've read.

[Rev7]

Well, as many pointed out, the True Sith existed millions of years ago in a galaxy far far away. They probably killed each other (hey, they're Sith after all) or were defeated by the Jedi or something else happened to them. The Sith after them we're not Sith, but Dark Jedi who assumed the Mantle of Dark lords of the Sith by learning Sith knowledge found in Korriban (the First Jedi Civil War I believe, as told by Kreia) and the rest is history.

 

Do we truly know if that was the "True Sith" way???Maybe that was something that was started by the first great sith lord: Ajunta Pall....

Or do we really know if that was the "True Sith" way??? Me personally, I do not know, but as may others I would like to know what happened.

[Jediphile]

Do we truly know if that was the "True Sith" way???Maybe that was something that was started by the first great sith lord: Ajunta Pall....

Or do we really know if that was the "True Sith" way??? Me personally, I do not know, but as may others I would like to know what happened.

 

No, we don't know.

 

Kreia uses the term to distinguish between the Sith led recently by dark lords like Nihilus, Sion, herself, Revan, Malak, Exar Kun, Ulic Qel-Droma and the ancient Sith.

 

The dark jedi did not, however, learn from Sith knowledge on Korriban - it's just the other way around, as while there was indeed a Sith species on Korriban at the time, they have very little or no knowledge of the force.

 

They gained that knowledge only after the dark jedi were exiled from the Republic and found their way to worlds like Korriban after the Hundred Year Darkness. The Sith species worshipped the dark jedi as gods, but as the dark jedi ruled and interbred with them, the distinction between the two became less and less.

 

The original dark jedi were humans or mostly so, which is why the ghost of a dark jedi like Ajunta Pall appears human and even mentions the betrayal of his jedi masters, if Revan asks about it in KotOR1.

 

Later dark sided Sith lords, such as Naga Sadow, and especially Marka Ragnos and Ludo Kressh appear less human, because they are all human/sith half-breeds to various degrees. Sadow seems a little more human than most and even talks about his "jedi blood" with pride.

 

The persistant idea that were was some uber-Sith race at some point, while popular, is not supported by facts and even contradicts established Star Wars history and seems mostly to be borne by fanboy insistance, as there is no basis for claiming such an uber-race ever existed that I have ever seen.

[adamqd]

 

The persistent idea that there were some uber-Sith race at some point, while popular, is not supported by facts and even contradicts established Star Wars history and seems mostly to be borne by fanboy insistence, as there is no basis for claiming such an uber-race ever existed that I have ever seen.

 

QFT

[Rev7]

 

 

They gained that knowledge only after the dark jedi were exiled from the

The persistant idea that were was some uber-Sith race at some point, while popular, is not supported by facts and even contradicts established Star Wars history and seems mostly to be borne by fanboy insistance, as there is no basis for claiming such an uber-race ever existed that I have ever seen.

 

It is not born from "fanboy insistance", In KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2 it says that there was an "uber-Sith" race at one point and time, when I do not think we know, but there was. Would you think that all of Korriban was only just a burial ground for the "Dark Jedi" that were Exiled?? I do not think that all of Korriban is only the resting place for the "Dark Jedi", but the "original Sith" as a race too.

[Jediphile]

It is not born from "fanboy insistance", In KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2 it says that there was an "uber-Sith" race at one point and time, when I do not think we know, but there was.

 

Sorry, but no there wasn't, and the the KotOR games don't say so either. They say that a powerful Sith empire existed, sure, but that empire was founded on the knowledge of the dark side of the force that the dark jedi brought to Korriban and the Sith species after they (the dark jedi) were exiled from the Republic. The KotOR games are remarkably and admirably true to the established Star Wars history in this regard and follows closely what was set up in the KotOR comic books that the games were founded on. That this is so is well established in the "Golden Age of the Sith" comic books, which the KotOR games seem to accept as gospel.

 

Besides, Wookieepedia's entry on the Sith Empire leaves little doubt about this: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_Empire

 

Nor do the sources I pointed to in my last post:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hundred_Year_Darkness

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Korriban

 

Would you think that all of Korriban was only just a burial ground for the "Dark Jedi" that were Exiled?? I do not think that all of Korriban is only the resting place for the "Dark Jedi", but the "original Sith" as a race too.

 

What I may or may not think does not matter. These are facts of Star Wars history.

 

You're correct that Korriban is not just a burial ground for the dark jedi, but nor has anybody suggested that. Korriban became a burial ground for the greatest dark lords of the Sith Empire, which was established by the numbers of the Sith species and the knowledge the dark jedi brought to them. The vast majority of Sith lords buried there were human/sith-species halfbreeds, which incluces both Ludo Kressh, Naga Sadow and Marka Ragnos. Those were all half-breeds and not members of this alleged Sith uber-race. Ajunta Pall wasn't a member of the Sith species either, only he was human instead of a halfbreed.

 

Sure, there was an original Sith race - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_species - but there is no basis that I've ever seen for claiming they were uber-force users. All the evidence I've seen suggests just the opposite.

[Rev7]

IT says in KotOR 1 that there once was a "uber-sith" colony, that is generally what I meant when I said that, but we do know that the original Sith were "thriving" at on point in time... then became extinct. I guess that the whole "fanboy" creation that there is still the Original Sith existing, is fake, but this could POSSIBLY be answered is there is ever going to be a KotOR 3.

*** NOTE: I SAID POSSIBLY***

[RobQel-Droma]

Yes! Finally we have an idea of the True Sith that does not involve some ancient Empire of wierdo grey force-users that are the most powerful beings in the universe!

 

Lol, sry, its just that I have been very adamant about the whole True Sith idea as usually put forth (ideas close to what I described above).

 

In fact, I don't think there will be any kind of "True Sith" at all. Just more of the good ol' Sith Lords hiding out in the Unknown Regions.

[Rev7]

..more likely than not...

[RedHawke]

Yes! Finally we have an idea of the True Sith that does not involve some ancient Empire of wierdo grey force-users that are the most powerful beings in the universe!

The whole "True Sith" as a race of powerful universal force users actually pre-dates this phenomina called the "Expanded Universe". They have been the subjects of conversations at RPG, Comic, and Sci-fi conventions for quite a while now... just a little FYI.

[adamqd]

so says you .... anyhow, if the True Sith are anything like the True Jedi in the TSL sense of the word, I hope they don't exist... I mean if that group of half wits, outcasts and force wounds are the genesis of the Jedi we know in later EU and film, what excuse for Darksiders will the True Sith be?

 

EDIT: IMHO

[RedHawke]

so says you ....

Uh? Ok? Perhaps you shouldn't so readily dismiss something, the world of Star Wars existed long before there was something called an Expanded Universe.