Should Revan be tried/executed by the Republic?

[Jediphile]

It does tell us why he left the order: He learnt all he could from the Jedi and wanted to leave. Why does he want to leave the Jedi Order then? Just because you learnt everything you needed to learn, why would you want to leave it...unless you want to learn something else? This is a clue to indicate Dark Side tendencies.

 

Jolee has dark side tendencies too then. I mean, he left the order, so he must have dark side tendencies as well, right?

 

Alright. So, before Kreia got converted to the Dark Side, she actually felt sorry for teaching Revan his final lesson, of how best to leave the Order. Kreia also blamed herself for showing Revan the path to the Dark Side.

 

For Kreia to feel sorry for Revan's fall only makes sense if teaching him how to leave the order is not the same as falling to the dark side. You are contradicting your own logic. I mean, if Kreia did not want Revan to fall to the dark side, then why did she teach him how to leave the order, if doing so means turning to the dark side?

 

She soon scummbed to the same energy that Revan felt and got different views. But, until then, we got some evidence that Kreia thought that she was the cause of all the mayhem.

 

If she "succumbed" to the dark side on Malachor V, then why do you allow that account for her fall but not for Revan? I mean, according to the chronicles, exactly the same thing happened to them both - they went to Malachor V and were overcome by the dark side. Yet for Kreia you allow that she just "succumbed" to the dark side, while suggesting that Revan must showing have fallen at least a little before that. Why could Revan himself not simply have "succumbed" at Malachor V himself? That looks like double standard to me...

 

Or a testament that he basically abandoned his passion to become Light Sided. Jolee did nothing to help out the Wookies, you know, which was not what his previous Jolee-self would have done...that self was smuggling goods against the orders of a tyrant and was active. This Jolee did nothing and merely watched the Wookies suffer.

 

No, he didn't. He helped several of them at times, particularly Freyyr. But he is a helper not a caretaker. He refused to be the savior god of the wookiees, so as long as they did not move against Czerka themselves, he would not help them. That's Jolee's point - you have to figure out what you want for yourself. The wookiees didn't do that - they just allowed the slavery and status quo to continue. What? Was Jolee supposed to save them in spite of themselves? I agree that they should overcome their own apathy first. You can't save a problem in spite of themselves. If someone needs help, then they must at least acknowledge that first. Otherwise you just trade one problem for another.

[Nancy Allen``]

Here's a few more Vash quotes from where you find her on Korriban that should shed some light.

 

"You have found the Force again. And something more I see."

 

Maybe the real reason the Exile was cast out was because she cut herself from the Force at Malechor. Without the Force how could she be a Jedi? The Council discusses the real reason for her exile and how she might be healed from what happened to her.

 

"I dislike passivity. Much like another Jedi I know. With the Council's support, I decided to take the fight to the Sith."

 

So much like Revan and the Exile, who did go to war, Kavar and even Atris who admit they were tempted, and Zez Kai El who believed it was the right thing to do, Vash thought they did have to fight, against this threat at least.

 

"Look within for the answer. We are each solely accountable for everything in our lives. Nothing ever happens to us unless we allow it."

 

This is her answer to why the Exile was cast out, inferring that it was the choice the Exile made, whether that was going to war or cutting herself off from the Force.

 

And interestingly Vash also refers to the Exile as a Jedi, four times I believe. None of the others do so.

[Emperor Devon]

and blowing up the republic is a better idea because...?

 

I've answered that exact question of yours several times. Look at one of my previous posts and you'll see an answer.

 

but why, WHY did Revan have to use it to attack the republic instead of doing the original goal of stopping the true sith?

 

I have also explained this. Rather than writing another explanation, I will refer you to one of my previous posts.

 

and how is the republic prejudiced to DSers? i think you're talking about the jedi.

 

Who, coincidentally, are revered and honored throughout the Republic. But other than that the Sith/proto-Sith were responsible for starting four unprovoked galactic-scale wars in which they acted like complete savages and killed millions (if not billions) of people, I suppose the Republic has little reason to be prejudiced towards them.

 

again, to the republic, Revan is a warhero/superstar. his/her word holds weight, and a LOT of it.

 

All we know is that Revan was a good tactician and ended the war quickly. Your ideas that he's something of a galactic celebrity are entirely conjecture.

 

Heroes can besmirch themselves easily enough. If FDR had started wearing a swastika armband and shouting "Heil Hitler!" during WWII he would not have remained popular for long. To the Republic being a darksider is just as bad, if not worse than being a Nazi.

 

so why would Revan waste resources on a war with an opponent that loves him/her, and if not that, at least an opponent that probably couldn't care less.

 

I have already explained that Revan needed the Republic's infrastructure. My previous posts explain why.

 

After referring you to something I've previously said about three times, this debate is starting to feel rather circular and repetitive to me...

[Nancy Allen``]

Because nothing less than "**** redemption, **** rehabilitation and **** the Republic, Revan is to die and if that means the galaxy has to be wiped out to do it then the galaxy will be wiped out to do it" is enough to satisfy.

 

Looked at the image in your sig by the way. So how long had Palpatine been dating?

[SilentScope001]

Jolee has dark side tendencies too then. I mean, he left the order, so he must have dark side tendencies as well, right?

 

No. You don't understand...

 

According to Kreia, Revan left the Order because he "finished" learning from them. What else does he want to learn? Why does he need to leave the Jedi Council to continue learning? I speculate it's that he wants to fall to the Dark Side.

 

For Kreia to feel sorry for Revan's fall only makes sense if teaching him how to leave the order is not the same as falling to the dark side. You are contradicting your own logic. I mean, if Kreia did not want Revan to fall to the dark side, then why did she teach him how to leave the order, if doing so means turning to the dark side?

 

I do not know why Kreia taught Revan to leave the Jedi Order so that Revan is free to follow the Dark Side. It could be a lie on the part of the Databanks (Kreia really wanted Revan to fall), or maybe Revan manlipuated Kreia into telling Revan how to leave the Order.

 

If she "succumbed" to the dark side on Malachor V, then why do you allow that account for her fall but not for Revan? I mean, according to the chronicles, exactly the same thing happened to them both - they went to Malachor V and were overcome by the dark side. Yet for Kreia you allow that she just "succumbed" to the dark side, while suggesting that Revan must showing have fallen at least a little before that. Why could Revan himself not simply have "succumbed" at Malachor V himself? That looks like double standard to me...

 

Because it seems that while Kreia accidently stumbled upon Malachor...Revan did not. Revan wanted to leave the Jedi Order to begin with...because he "finished learning from them".

 

No, he didn't. He helped several of them at times, particularly Freyyr. But he is a helper not a caretaker. He refused to be the savior god of the wookiees, so as long as they did not move against Czerka themselves, he would not help them. That's Jolee's point - you have to figure out what you want for yourself. The wookiees didn't do that - they just allowed the slavery and status quo to continue. What? Was Jolee supposed to save them in spite of themselves?

 

Yes. That is what a true Jedi would do. Jolee did the same thing, when he smuggled goods to the refugees of the tyrant. Why didn't they take matters into their own hands and fled? No, Jolee left them behind.

 

Not to mention that the Wookies were being lied to and deceived. That deception is causing them to accept Czerka's puppet government...and they cannot know the truth. You have to save them, even when they are puppets of the evil government.

 

Revan betrayed Jolee's core principles twice. He showed the holocron to Dustil and to the Seltkah in the Sith base. Both were content with the oppression of the Sith. But Revan needed to save them, in spite of themselves.

===

Listen. We got sidetracked with Jolee, and my attempts to get an argument to lynch Revan has not exactly work, not even for the Pre-Wipe Revan which should be easier to get rid of, what, for being a Dark Sider and all?

 

I think it's better to stick with the belief according to me that Revan was a Dark Sider. There is no evidence in game that Revan was doing so for good intentions or for evil goals...and therefore, the developers allow us to make Revan our "own". I think we should use that, and end this topic, for we already have gotten the viewpoints of everyone.

 

But this debate is not in vain. I learnt a lot of stuff and had lots of fun.

[Jae Onasi]

To really go off on the Jolee tangent....

Yes. That is what a true Jedi would do. Jolee did the same thing, when he smuggled goods to the refugees of the tyrant. Why didn't they take matters into their own hands and fled? No, Jolee left them behind.

The Ukatis system was under interdiction--there was no place for the refugees to flee to, and the Enforcers had all the power and starved the people into submission.

Not to mention that the Wookies were being lied to and deceived. That deception is causing them to accept Czerka's puppet government...and they cannot know the truth. You have to save them, even when they are puppets of the evil government.

As long as the Wookiees were divided amongst themselves, there was no way for them to succeed. Jolee had to wait until they were both united and ready to move, then he could help. Otherwise, it would have been a suicide mission for the wookiees. The pro-czerka wookiees would have given up the anti-czerka ones to Czerka, and it would have been a slaughter.

[SilentScope001]

The Ukatis system was under interdiction--there was no place for the refugees to flee to, and the Enforcers had all the power and starved the people into submission.

 

I wasn't saying Jolee's actions was bad. In this case, I commend Jolee for doing it. But it seems to violate his later actions of letting the Wookies get oppressed under Czerka.

 

As long as the Wookiees were divided amongst themselves, there was no way for them to succeed. Jolee had to wait until they were both united and ready to move, then he could help. Otherwise, it would have been a suicide mission for the wookiees. The pro-czerka wookiees would have given up the anti-czerka ones to Czerka, and it would have been a slaughter.

 

My impression was that everyone actually supported the Czerka regime, and if there was any dissent, it was silent. Jolee knew this, and that since most Wookies were for their enslavement under Czerka, it would be either up to him or Revan to lead the charge. Jolee did not do so because he felt it was their fault for listenting to the lies of Czerka, and I think that was due to him becoming very apathetic.

 

However, it is all based on opinons, and I can understand that your view has some valid points. But, yes, this is one huge tangent.

[Jediphile]

No. You don't understand...

 

According to Kreia, Revan left the Order because he "finished" learning from them. What else does he want to learn? Why does he need to leave the Jedi Council to continue learning? I speculate it's that he wants to fall to the Dark Side.

 

Well, if you think I'm being troublesome, then you're right, I guess

 

My point is that if you want to see Revan's choice to leave the order as an indication of wanting to fall to the dark side, then I insist that you apply the same logic to Jolee, since you'd otherwise be using one standard for Revan and another for Jolee. And that's just wrong IMHO.

 

As for the Kreia comment you refer to let's just look at it...

 

Kreia: "He came to me, yes. Both before and after, before Revan knew himself.And after, in the times when Revan was coming into his own and learning he was more than he had been told. At one time, Revan was my Padawan. In times past, long ago. But Revan, when he had learned all he could, had other masters... that fool Zhar, and other Jedi on other planets. He learned from each.But in the end, he turned back to me. When he realized there was nothing more to be learned from the Jedi - except how one could leave them forever."

 

I take it it's the end here, that you use as a basis for your conclusion that Revan wants to embrace the dark side, yes?

 

Well, obviously you're free to interpret it as you want, but I will point out that while you can interpret it your way, it is not conclusive. To me it just means that since Revan knows that the jedi order will never accept his choice to go to war against the Mandalorians, and so he wants to learn as much as he can before they kick him out.

 

Keep the timeframe in mind. The Mandalorian Wars officially begin in 3965 BBY, according to Wookieepedia, with the First Battle of Onderon. That's two full years before Revans gets involved and leaves the order. Wookieepedia even argues that you can set the beginning as early as 3976 BBY, because that's the year the neo-Mandalorians begin to conquer worlds on the outer rim.

 

This means that by the time the Republic gets involved at the battle of Onderon, the Mandalorians have already been at it for eleven years, and by the time Revan joins the fight in 3963, it's thirteen years since the Mandalorians began conquering worlds on the outer rim. Is it hard to believe that Revan might have been planning this for more than a decade? Not if you ask me. To me Revan saw the danger a long time ago, but also that the masters would never get involved in the war. So he decided he had to become powerful quickly, so that he fight the battle that the masters refused to. And as Kreia also says, "The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war."

 

I do not know why Kreia taught Revan to leave the Jedi Order so that Revan is free to follow the Dark Side. It could be a lie on the part of the Databanks (Kreia really wanted Revan to fall), or maybe Revan manlipuated Kreia into telling Revan how to leave the Order.

 

Manipulate Kreia?!? That would be a feat indeed

 

Because it seems that while Kreia accidently stumbled upon Malachor...Revan did not. Revan wanted to leave the Jedi Order to begin with...because he "finished learning from them".

 

No.

 

Yes. That is what a true Jedi would do. Jolee did the same thing, when he smuggled goods to the refugees of the tyrant. Why didn't they take matters into their own hands and fled? No, Jolee left them behind.

 

Not to mention that the Wookies were being lied to and deceived. That deception is causing them to accept Czerka's puppet government...and they cannot know the truth. You have to save them, even when they are puppets of the evil government.

 

If the wookiees' can't see behind the blindingly obvious lies and manipulations of Czerka, then I really can't fault Jolee for not helping. Because then it can only be because they would rather accept the status quo than do something about the situation. Czerka doesn't even try to hide what they are doing on Kashyyyk. How about Jaarak, the old wookiee, who would rather accept the death penalty than have it revealed how the young, idolized Rorwoor that he killed was setting up his own people for Czerka's slavers to capture? That's an indication fo a sick society. Jolee's point is that you can't save a people from their own ignorance and stupidity, and I agree with him. I always have Jolee in my active party on Kashyyyk, and not once have I heard him say that Revan should not interfere. Jolee had no problem with what Revan did and even helped.

 

You could argue Jolee could have done what Revan did himself, but I don't think so. Because Revan had something that Jolee lacked. Something that forced the wookiees to reconsider their position, and something that is not optional in the game - Revan had Zaalbar with him! And Zaalbar's return is the catalyst that forces the entire situation. Revan had that, and Jolee didn't. Without that or something similar, Jolee could not have remedied the situation, because true change must always come from within. Or as Qui-Gon would say, "I can only protect you - I cannot fight a war for you." Qui-Gon and Jolee are jedi - they are not gods. Same thing with Revan. It is not Revan's choices that change things on Kashyyyk - it's Zaalbar's return and the implications it brings with it.

 

Revan betrayed Jolee's core principles twice. He showed the holocron to Dustil and to the Seltkah in the Sith base. Both were content with the oppression of the Sith. But Revan needed to save them, in spite of themselves.

 

No, he forced them to see the truth, then let them decide whether the would live with that truth or not. It was not Revan's choice in either case. If you put it that way in Dustil's case, then you ruin Carth's point to his son:

 

Carth: "I'm proud of you, Dustil. You aren't hanging onto a lie after you see it for what it is. Not everyone could do that."

 

That was Dustil's choice. Not Revan's.

[EnIgmA_XX]

Zez-Kai Ell is not the only one. Consider the Exile's trial at the jedi council:

 

{snipped to save space}

 

People frequently dismiss anything that Vash says because most of it is cut content, but this IS actually in the game and canon, and she is clearly on Zez-Kai Ell's side. Heck, she took responsibility for the failed jedi teachings even at the exile's trials, which is almost a decade before Zez-Kai Ell concedes the same point to the exile.

 

Kavar is on the fence but a close friend of Zez-Kai Ell. So if I had to guess from that and from his comments in the game, I'd say he is leaning in that direction too. He certainly does not throw all blame on Revan and the exile, as Atris and Vrook do.

 

but again, you dodge from the real question. what could the masters have done to stop Revan from turning? what the masters say only minorly supports your point.

 

Hitler was never redeemed, nor is has there ever been any evidence that he ever tried to atone.

 

but that's not the point. the pont was that even though Revan didn't do a lot of hands on killing, he/she is still very, very responsible for the deaths that were ordered, the turning of Malak, and the start of the war.

 

 

oh, yes. of course, the . yeah, i can understand why you'd feel that way when i compare the 911 incident to Revan, but you know what? it's true. did Revan have good intentions, at least, for the most part? yes, it's very possible. but did Revan pursue the correct course of action?

 

it's the exact same thing, Jediphile. those terrorists did think that they were doing the right thing. but did they do the right thing? omg pls say no.

 

No, but what do you suggest then? Revan should just be killed for what he did?

 

Let's try another approach...

 

First of all, I will NEVER accept that Revan (or anyone else for that matter) must be executed or punished in any other way solely for the sake of appeasing public opinion. That is mob mentality and NOT justice! You can argue it's just my opinion - fine - but it's indisputable! You do not punish someone just because the public calls out for blood. That's uncivilized and barbaric. Period! You judge to a sentence that fits the crime. End of story.

 

yes i agree. and the sentence fits the crime.

 

Now, Revan has done very bad and evil things. He should take some responsibility for his acts. However, extenuating circumstances are reasonable to consider in such a case. You can just say "well, 600+ = death sentence. That's it I'm afraid..."

 

Not to excuse but Revan did, but I agree with Picard on Star Trek that, "There can be no justice so long as laws are absolute!"

 

I will always think so. Justice must be blind, yes, but that does not mean black and white. If you oversimplify a case for the sake of convenience that it's a miscarriage of justice and a new crime of its own. You MUST consider all points relevant.

 

And let's look at it practically. Revan did bad things, true. Then he was redeemed and did good things like destroying the Starforge and defeating Malak. But we shouldn't let that excuse what he did originally, so let's chop off his head and put it on a pike for the greater glory of justice.

 

i could no more forgive Revan than i could forgive those 911 terrorists. and Revan killed even more people. Malak and the star forge were problems caused by Revan in the first place anyway.

 

Now, a few hundred years pass, and another ex-jedi Sith Lord rises to power. He makes war on the Republic and kills millions until his apprentice betrays him. This apprentice betrays him and leaves him for dead, taking over the the title of dark lord. The former dark lord is not dead, however, and the betrayal of his apprentice causes him to reconsider his motives. This leads him to break free from the hold the dark side has on him, and now he considers that he really should help the Republic and the jedi against his old apprentice, not for revenge, but to atone for the evil he did himself.

 

Now what will this ex-jedi/sith think in this situation? He will think: "Wait... Isn't that what Revan did hundreds of years ago? And what did the Republic do to him? They EXECUTED him for it!! Well, screw that!" And so ends the Republic, finally falling to the might of the Sith...

 

Whether Revan deserves it or not (and that is no admission), killing Revan is just stupid and impractical for that reason alone.

 

so we should cower from justice because of this? we need to save this mass murderer because we want sith lords to think better of us? besides, i wonder what the chances are of that exact same situation happening again. lol and you're the one talking about practicality.

 

I've answered that exact question of yours several times. Look at one of my previous posts and you'll see an answer.

 

I have also explained this. Rather than writing another explanation, I will refer you to one of my previous posts.

 

I have already explained that Revan needed the Republic's infrastructure. My previous posts explain why.

 

After referring you to something I've previously said about three times, this debate is starting to feel rather circular and repetitive to me...

 

yes you have explained it, but your reasons are illogical. here, i'll explain:

 

I've already answered this, but no harm in doing so again...

 

Fact: The Republic is a very large state, consisting of thousands of planets, along with immense numbers of people, shipyards, resources, hyperspace routes, etc.

 

yup.

 

Fact: Any invaders (the true Sith) that take over this state will gain a large advantage in the war. With it the true Sith would be able to bolster their fleet significantly, get more supplies for their troops, and most importantly, have access to all the hyperspace routes.

 

correct.

 

Fact: The Republic as it is is incapable of defending itself against the true Sith. Revan's empire is.

 

you're most probably right.

 

Therefore, is it not entirely logical that Revan's troops should defend the Republic, both to stop the true Sith from using its resources, and to gain (essential) resources they are incapable of producing otherwise?

 

here, ED, is the problem. analogy time!

 

okay, so we have a house (republic and republic planets). in the house, we have 4 soldiers (republic forces) guarding it, and some rations (resources). they are stationed inside the building. a bit away from the house, we have a squad of ten soldiers (true sith) that want to kill the troops and take control of the house and rations. finally, we have a set of 6 soldiers (Revan's group) that want to defend the house as well. it is also logical to not let the enemy get the rations, but Revan's troops also need some for themselves. what you have basically stated to me is that in order to defend the house, and protect rations, we need to kill the 4 soldiers inside. this way, Revan's troops can more properly defend against the attack. now, what is the problem with this picture? oh, i know. why the hell do we need to kill the 4 soldiers inside to be able to properly defend the house!? are the soldiers' presence inside the house rendering Revan's forces incapable of defending it? no. are they stopping Revan from being able to properly plan the defence? no. are they hostile to Revan? no. do they hate Revan? no, and even if they do, only very minorly. are having 6 soldiers better then having 10? no. are they selfishly keeping the rations for themselves? no, and dude, you didn't even ask for them! if i want some sugar from my neighbor, do i have to plot to kill him in order to get it? NO, just ask your neighbor for the sugar you fool!

 

now, tell me again, why is this a good idea?

 

Who, coincidentally, are revered and honored throughout the Republic. But other than that the Sith/proto-Sith were responsible for starting four unprovoked galactic-scale wars in which they acted like complete savages and killed millions (if not billions) of people, I suppose the Republic has little reason to be prejudiced towards them.

 

the republic doesn't care about the jedi and sith, ED. if you talk to Atton, you'll also find out that just about everyone in the republic can't even tell the difference between the two. how are they supposed to have a fav? to them, they're all the same.

 

All we know is that Revan was a good tactician and ended the war quickly. Your ideas that he's something of a galactic celebrity are entirely conjecture.

 

Heroes can besmirch themselves easily enough. If FDR had started wearing a swastika armband and shouting "Heil Hitler!" during WWII he would not have remained popular for long. To the Republic being a darksider is just as bad, if not worse than being a Nazi.

 

no, i've covered that above. they can't tell the difference between jedi and sith. and Revan was popular, just talk to Carth. Revan was a hero. and only later was that diminished.

[Emperor Devon]

why the hell do we need to kill the 4 soldiers inside to be able to properly defend the house!? {snip} NO, just ask your neighbor for the sugar you fool!

 

Your house analogy reduces the true magnitude of what Revan's request would be. A fleet the size of his would need billions upon billions of tons of fuel, food and other resources just to stay in operation, let alone fight a war. That is nothing like a few packages of rations you can buy without a second the next day - the resources wars consume can amount to trillions of dollars (or in this case, credits) and could drastically affect the economies of the countries involved for decades to come. Revan would have to do more than just as politely.

 

the republic doesn't care about the jedi and sith, ED. if you talk to Atton,

 

Which, coincidentally, is after the Jedi Civil War. Attitudes towards Jedi changed quite a bit in those years. Look in any source about the EU and you'll find they were quite revered before then.

 

no, i've covered that above. they can't tell the difference between jedi and sith. and Revan was popular, just talk to Carth.

 

I don't recall Carth describing him as a galactic celebrity, only a brilliant general. Those are far from the same things.

[Jediphile]

but again, you dodge from the real question. what could the masters have done to stop Revan from turning? what the masters say only minorly supports your point.

 

But it does support it, and Disiciple supports it too. As for what the masters could have done, they could have taken Revan's call for a crusade against the Mandalorians seriously, was any jedi should when MILLIONS of innocent lives are lost on the outer rim. In essence, the masters just cling to the cold letter of the jedi code and - more to the point - their own authority and infallibility (that's your problem right there). And basically Revan makes the same choice Luke does in ESB, when he leaves to save his friends against the wishes of Yoda and Obi-Wan. Revan's choice is just on a far greater scale, because far more people are dying and suffering (none of Luke's friends were killed).

 

Tell me, how "ethical" is it that the masters forbid any jedi to get involved in a war where millions if not billions are lost? There are dangers, sure, but jedi are trained to protect the weak and innocent - isn't it just as dangerous to DEMAND that the younger jedi ignore all they were trained to do and instead just sit and watch how the Mandalorians butcher the outer rim? Luke could not sit by and do nothing, and neither could Revan.

 

but that's not the point. the pont was that even though Revan didn't do a lot of hands on killing, he/she is still very, very responsible for the deaths that were ordered, the turning of Malak, and the start of the war.

 

So Revan is responsible for EVERYTHING because he defied the council, but the masters are not responsible for getting him to that point, and neither Malak nor any of the other jedi who followed Revan are responsible for the own acts.

 

Right....

 

oh, yes. of course, the . yeah, i can understand why you'd feel that way when i compare the 911 incident to Revan, but you know what? it's true. did Revan have good intentions, at least, for the most part? yes, it's very possible. but did Revan pursue the correct course of action?

 

I won't even dignify that with an answer. Revan was fighting a war. Nobody calls him a terrorist in either game.

 

i could no more forgive Revan than i could forgive those 911 terrorists. and Revan killed even more people. Malak and the star forge were problems caused by Revan in the first place anyway.

 

This is not a question of what you or I can forgive. It's a question of justice. And leave 9/11 out of it. It is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

 

so we should cower from justice because of this? we need to save this mass murderer because we want sith lords to think better of us? besides, i wonder what the chances are of that exact same situation happening again. lol and you're the one talking about practicality.

 

OMG, you're right! Because the theme of redemption is so unique to Revan, isn't it?

[EnIgmA_XX]

Your house analogy reduces the true magnitude of what Revan's request would be. A fleet the size of his would need billions upon billions of tons of fuel, food and other resources just to stay in operation, let alone fight a war. That is nothing like a few packages of rations you can buy without a second the next day - the resources wars consume can amount to trillions of dollars (or in this case, credits) and could drastically affect the economies of the countries involved for decades to come. Revan would have to do more than just as politely.

 

no, ED, in fact, it isn't as far apart as you think it is. i'll compare it to world war 2, then.

 

in the days of the war, do you think that people had a wonderful supply of food at all times, and they could just eat their rations to their heart's desire? no, of course not. in the war, you would spend days, weeks, maybe even months just sitting in a trench and praying that an artilery shell doesn't get lucky and blows you to peices. do you really think that they could just eat all they want? no, because the battles there could, and sometimes would drag out for long periods of time. food was something to be protected, and this is true for many war zones. but soldiers were able to find ways to get around this. how you ask? simple. if there happened to be a skirmish in the area, you'd simply run in afterwards and loot the battlezone. easy. soldiers would always carry rations of some sort and you could salvage it so that you could survive one of those longer trench battles.

 

now, you are wondering what in the world this has to do with anything. here, try this thought. do you honestly think, ED, that when Revan destroys an enemy fleet, that they'd have no resources on them at all? you seem to be of the impression that every scrap of resources has to come from the republic's wallet. no, ED! just loot the fleets that you destroy. what did you tell me before? you said that fleets need billions of tons of fuel, food, etc. now tell me, why would an enemy fleet not have these resources on them? they probably have tons of fuel in their cargo hold, if what you say is true. there, problem solved.

 

Which, coincidentally, is after the Jedi Civil War. Attitudes towards Jedi changed quite a bit in those years. Look in any source about the EU and you'll find they were quite revered before then.

 

but i'm not talking about whether they're revered or hated. what i'm talking about is that the republic can't tell the difference between the two. if they can't tell the difference some years into the future, then how can they tell the difference at the time of Revan?

 

I don't recall Carth describing him as a galactic celebrity, only a brilliant general. Those are far from the same things.

 

a hero, ED.

 

But it does support it, and Disiciple supports it too. As for what the masters could have done, they could have taken Revan's call for a crusade against the Mandalorians seriously, was any jedi should when MILLIONS of innocent lives are lost on the outer rim. In essence, the masters just cling to the cold letter of the jedi code and - more to the point - their own authority and infallibility (that's your problem right there). And basically Revan makes the same choice Luke does in ESB, when he leaves to save his friends against the wishes of Yoda and Obi-Wan. Revan's choice is just on a far greater scale, because far more people are dying and suffering (none of Luke's friends were killed).

 

Tell me, how "ethical" is it that the masters forbid any jedi to get involved in a war where millions if not billions are lost? There are dangers, sure, but jedi are trained to protect the weak and innocent - isn't it just as dangerous to DEMAND that the younger jedi ignore all they were trained to do and instead just sit and watch how the Mandalorians butcher the outer rim? Luke could not sit by and do nothing, and neither could Revan.

 

hm? you're getting away from the point here. i don't support the masters' choice in the Mando wars, but we were talking solely about Revan's fall. the question was what could the masters have done to stop Revan from falling? keeping the mom and toddler analogy in mind, even if they went into the war and supervised Revan, the masters would also be devoured by the ds on Mal V.

 

So Revan is responsible for EVERYTHING because he defied the council, but the masters are not responsible for getting him to that point, and neither Malak nor any of the other jedi who followed Revan are responsible for the own acts.

 

Right....

 

i'm not getting you. you seem to be thinking that only one person must take the blame for something that happened. Jediphile, if i told you to kill someone and you did, is it only my fault? is it only your fault? no, both of us are at fault. so Revan, Malak, and all those sith (but only if they had evil intent) are responsible. no one person is at fault, they all are.

 

and i explained the master thing above.

 

I won't even dignify that with an answer. Revan was fighting a war. Nobody calls him a terrorist in either game.

 

oh wow. so we're fighting a war, and that means Revan is absolved for everything he/she did now, huh? hm, i wonder who started that war in the first place...

 

okay, Hitler started the war, so everything he did is fair game, then? you can say "guys, it was a war" and so everything is excusable? and on top of that, they were the ones to start the war.

 

This is not a question of what you or I can forgive. It's a question of justice. And leave 9/11 out of it. It is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

 

it's not irrelevant. you want to think it's irrelevant. but the intentions, Jediphile. it's quite similar. both parties thought they were doing the right thing, and while to some extent that means something, what they did is still wrong. both parties are guilty.

 

and so wait, it's justice to do nothing?

 

OMG, you're right! Because the theme of redemption is so unique to Revan, isn't it?

 

that's hilarious. ya, you've got a point there, but that's averting away from justice. you're excusing a mass murderer because of a reason other than intent and actions. you're sparing this killer because we want sith to think better of us, and that's, well...

[Jediphile]

hm? you're getting away from the point here. i don't support the masters' choice in the Mando wars, but we were talking solely about Revan's fall. the question was what could the masters have done to stop Revan from falling? keeping the mom and toddler analogy in mind, even if they went into the war and supervised Revan, the masters would also be devoured by the ds on Mal V.

 

In that case Revan should be pitied for being the one who fell there in the place of the masters. If nobody could have avoided falling to the dark side there, then it was going to happen either way, since it is naive in the extreme to believe that NO jedi would EVER oppose the Mandalorians - of course SOME jedi SOMEWHERE would, and so we have an escalating chain of events that will inevitably take us to Malachor V and a fall to the dark side at some point. In which case you're convicting Revan for being a victim and punishing him for what was done to him rather than for what was done by him.

 

i'm not getting you. you seem to be thinking that only one person must take the blame for something that happened. Jediphile, if i told you to kill someone and you did, is it only my fault? is it only your fault? no, both of us are at fault. so Revan, Malak, and all those sith (but only if they had evil intent) are responsible. no one person is at fault, they all are.

 

and i explained the master thing above.

 

The problem is that they are linked. It is impossible to separate the masters from the equation because they force Revan's choice and fail to be the guides to Revan that they needed to be by their absence. He was still their responsibility, and instead they just abandoned him.

 

oh wow. so we're fighting a war, and that means Revan is absolved for everything he/she did now, huh? hm, i wonder who started that war in the first place...

 

There is a big difference between killing enemy soldiers or citizens during a time of war and carrying out ethnic cleansing within your own ranks. Tragic as it may sound, people do tend to die in war, which is one of the things that make wars bad. Yet I haven't heard you call for Canderous' head for the all the killing he did during the Mandalorian Wars. Or maybe Bastila should also be tried for all those of Malak's soldiers she killed with her Battle Meditation during the Jedi Civil War? No, I don't like it either, but in war you do kill the enemy. It's really not that difficult...

 

it's not irrelevant. you want to think it's irrelevant. but the intentions, Jediphile. it's quite similar. both parties thought they were doing the right thing, and while to some extent that means something, what they did is still wrong. both parties are guilty.

 

An enemy in a war is not the same as a terrorist. Period. Any claim to the contrary is just propaganda IMHO.

 

that's hilarious. ya, you've got a point there, but that's averting away from justice. you're excusing a mass murderer because of a reason other than intent and actions. you're sparing this killer because we want sith to think better of us, and that's, well...

 

No, I want the LS side of that Sith to have one more reason to return to the light and do the right thing without having to consider that it doesn't matter because nobody will appreciate it anyway. I don't support bloodlust, and if that sith is to change his evil ways, then he must have the chance to see that there is a way back for him to choose. That's not an excuse. I would agree with the exile when he tells Kreia that nobody is beyond redemption. The second you dismiss that idea, the dark side already beckons, since you've rejected the idea that people can change for the better. Sure, it certainly does not always happen, since people fail all the time, but sometimes you have to choose to be naive if you want to hold onto your principles.

[EnIgmA_XX]

In that case Revan should be pitied for being the one who fell there in the place of the masters. If nobody could have avoided falling to the dark side there, then it was going to happen either way, since it is naive in the extreme to believe that NO jedi would EVER oppose the Mandalorians - of course SOME jedi SOMEWHERE would, and so we have an escalating chain of events that will inevitably take us to Malachor V and a fall to the dark side at some point. In which case you're convicting Revan for being a victim and punishing him for what was done to him rather than for what was done by him.

 

i'm not punishing Revan for falling, no. that was unaviodable. i'm punishing Revan for staying on the dark side path, converting others to the ds, starting a war, and killing a load of people.

 

The problem is that they are linked. It is impossible to separate the masters from the equation because they force Revan's choice and fail to be the guides to Revan that they needed to be by their absence. He was still their responsibility, and instead they just abandoned him.

 

and if they became the guides you want them to, they also would've fallen to ds and make a whole lot more problems in the republic. the guide idea is basically stating that it is the masters fault for not being lemmings and following Revan into doom.

 

There is a big difference between killing enemy soldiers or citizens during a time of war and carrying out ethnic cleansing within your own ranks. Tragic as it may sound, people do tend to die in war, which is one of the things that make wars bad. Yet I haven't heard you call for Canderous' head for the all the killing he did during the Mandalorian Wars. Or maybe Bastila should also be tried for all those of Malak's soldiers she killed with her Battle Meditation during the Jedi Civil War? No, I don't like it either, but in war you do kill the enemy. It's really not that difficult...

 

Bastila thinks she's fighting for the right thing, and i don't think she killed very many people unnecessarily. Canderous is a lot more debateable.

 

look, for the record, you are right in one respect. in war, people die. there's no avoiding it, and you have no choice, especially the people that were attacked. the problem is, though, is that the only person in a war that can really, truly be pegged for the deaths he/she caused is the person that started the war in the first place.

 

Jediphile, who started the JCW?

 

An enemy in a war is not the same as a terrorist. Period. Any claim to the contrary is just propaganda IMHO.

 

yes, they're not the same, but then if that person happened to have started the war in the first place, then those two things get a whole lot closer.

 

No, I want the LS side of that Sith to have one more reason to return to the light and do the right thing without having to consider that it doesn't matter because nobody will appreciate it anyway. I don't support bloodlust, and if that sith is to change his evil ways, then he must have the chance to see that there is a way back for him to choose. That's not an excuse. I would agree with the exile when he tells Kreia that nobody is beyond redemption. The second you dismiss that idea, the dark side already beckons, since you've rejected the idea that people can change for the better. Sure, it certainly does not always happen, since people fail all the time, but sometimes you have to choose to be naive if you want to hold onto your principles.

 

redemption? yes. for mass murderers? no.

 

okay, look, Jediphile, if the allies stormed Berlin in WW2, and they go into Hitler's house, and 4 seconds before Hitler gets shot he tells everyone that he's sorry and means it, could you forgive him?

[Emperor Devon]

nin the days of the war, do you think that people had a wonderful supply of food at all times, and they could just eat their rations to their heart's desire? no, of course not. in the war, you would spend days, weeks, maybe even months just sitting in a trench and praying that an artilery shell doesn't get lucky and blows you to peices.

 

Sure, and unless you've found some way to survive without food for all those months you'll have to eat at some point. If you bring none yourself and simply rely upon the enemy to provide for all your culinary needs you're looking at a recipe for disaster.

 

do you really think that they could just eat all they want? no, because the battles there could, and sometimes would drag out for long periods of time.

 

And I'd assume you'd go without food all this time? Wars are not and endless stream of constant battles. With galaxy-spanning fronts and vast armies and fleets fighting across them, you're going to be transferring troops around pretty often to reinforce certain planets, retreat from others, join forces, split forces, etcetera etcetera. This can take a very long time to do - hyperspace travel can take weeks and troops can be on the march for hours, days, or weeks. You simply cannot get such vast volumes of it from looting.

 

no, ED! just loot the fleets that you destroy. what did you tell me before? you said that fleets need billions of tons of fuel, food, etc. now tell me, why would an enemy fleet not have these resources on them?

 

I suppose the fact that the enemy needs to eat too wouldn't be a damper on that? You'd never be able to find the necessary amounts of resources on the enemy when they've been using them as well.

 

Fine, send the soldiers off on needless skirmishes unrelated to their objectives, have them suffer unnecessary casualties as a result, only to find half-eaten packets of food left that should sustain them for a few days before they have to do it all over again. That's not even mentioning what kinds of food are recovered, how much of it gets damaged in the battle, the malnutrition that's sure to result, the complaints (or revolts) from the men about not enough food...

 

Not giving troops food simply would not work. Armies spend far more time moving from place to place and resting than they do in actual combat - look into any account of any army in history and you'll see that. Hell, the garrison at Verdun didn't even see any action for several years.

 

And lastly, were I in the true Sith's position, I'd order all troops and ships to destroy their supplies whenever possible upon imminent capture. There, that's drastically cut down on the already meager amounts of supplies Revan's forces would manage to scavenge. They'll starve themselves to death, problem solved.

 

they probably have tons of fuel in their cargo hold, if what you say is true. there, problem solved.

 

Unless the true Sith want their ships to float aimlessly in space, you're more likely to find the fuel in the fuel tanks than the cargo holds...

 

Dunno, it seems pretty unlikely to me that ships which couldn't even move could defeat ones that could, let alone steal their fuel once they won. How exactly would they go about that? Warships aren't equipped to transfer millions of gallons of fluids from one tank to another in the middle of space. That's all done at the drydocks.

 

I'm sorry, but your idea of an army getting its supplies by looting them from their enemies is the most surefire way, apart from ordering the troops to shoot themselves, to lose a war.

 

but i'm not talking about whether they're revered or hated. what i'm talking about is that the republic can't tell the difference between the two.

 

Ehhh?? The Republic hates one group and loves the other but can't even tell the difference?

 

if they can't tell the difference some years into the future, then how can they tell the difference at the time of Revan?

 

If you mean before the Jedi Civil War they most certainly could. Back then all the Jedi had done was defend the Republic, whereas the Sith/proto-Sith had attacked and burned it in four galactic-scale wars they started.

 

a hero, ED.

 

Might I ask where you saw Carth say he was a galactic celebrity with an influential hand in politics?

[EnIgmA_XX]

Sure, and unless you've found some way to survive without food for all those months you'll have to eat at some point. If you bring none yourself and simply rely upon the enemy to provide for all your culinary needs you're looking at a recipe for disaster.

 

*sigh* you really don't get it at all then. we are not completely relying on the enemy for all of the resources. they will provide them after skirmishes. now, if what you said before holds true, they will have a considerable number of resources on board. but in addition, Revan will have to partially rely on resources from the republic. of course, they won't need too much because they already have the star forge to make ships, and the creation of them is probably what takes the most resources, as opposed to just maintaining them. so we are relying on both the republic and looting the enemy, see? since we are looting rations, etc from the enemy, the republic will have to provide substantially less than what it would've had to contribute otherwise.

 

And I'd assume you'd go without food all this time? Wars are not and endless stream of constant battles. With galaxy-spanning fronts and vast armies and fleets fighting across them, you're going to be transferring troops around pretty often to reinforce certain planets, retreat from others, join forces, split forces, etcetera etcetera. This can take a very long time to do - hyperspace travel can take weeks and troops can be on the march for hours, days, or weeks. You simply cannot get such vast volumes of it from looting.

 

yes you can. you know what you're right. during war you'll have to split forces, create flanking maneuvers, retreat, push attacks, and so on. and who says that the enemy won't be doin the same thing? they're not fools. and if they're going to be doing that, and that requires a lot of fuel, then how are they going to do it? it means that they too must have a lot of fuel. and if they have a lot of fuel then Revan can loot that fuel.

 

I suppose the fact that the enemy needs to eat too wouldn't be a damper on that? You'd never be able to find the necessary amounts of resources on the enemy when they've been using them as well.

 

so when we loot their cargo holds they're going to have nothing in them? what, you think that just because the enemy has to eat means that every fleet Revan loots is going to be out of fuel and on the verge of starving to death? is that what you think, ED? you think the true sith are boneheads? no, if they're going to fight a war, they're going to be properly prepared. that means lots of fuel, food, etc. and that means lots of loot for Revan.

 

Fine, send the soldiers off on needless skirmishes unrelated to their objectives, have them suffer unnecessary casualties as a result, only to find half-eaten packets of food left that should sustain them for a few days before they have to do it all over again. That's not even mentioning what kinds of food are recovered, how much of it gets damaged in the battle, the malnutrition that's sure to result, the complaints (or revolts)from the men about not enough food...

 

the republic will also provide some. and Revan won't go on needless battles. they'll take it from battles that are fought normally.

 

Not giving troops food simply would not work. Armies spend far more time moving from place to place and resting than they do in actual combat - look into any account of any army in history and you'll see that. Hell, the garrison at Verdun didn't even see any action for several years.

 

again, the republic will provide some. and you've also helped me prove my point that the true sith fleets will have many resources on board.

 

And lastly, were I in the true Sith's position, I'd order all troops and ships to destroy their supplies whenever possible upon imminent capture. There, that's drastically cut down on the already meager amounts of supplies Revan's forces would manage to scavenge. They'll starve themselves to death, problem solved.

 

the republic is helping supply some resources, ED.

 

Dunno, it seems pretty unlikely to me that ships which couldn't even move could defeat ones that could, let alone steal their fuel once they won. How exactly would they go about that? Warships aren't equipped to transfer millions of gallons of fluids from one tank to another in the middle of space. That's all done at the drydocks.

 

then bring the ships and captured ships to the drydocks, ED. so easy.

 

Ehhh?? The Republic hates one group and loves the other but can't even tell the difference?

 

no, they can't. to the republic they're all jedi. have you visited Dantoine when playing tsl lately? talk to a few people there. finally, i'll let Atton do the rest of the talking for me.

 

The Jedi... the Sith... you don't get it, do you? To the galaxy, they're the same thing; just men and women with too much power, squabbling over religion, while the rest of us burn.

 

If you mean before the Jedi Civil War they most certainly could. Back then all the Jedi had done was defend the Republic, whereas the Sith/proto-Sith had attacked and burned it in four galactic-scale wars they started.

 

if they can't tell the difference some years into the future, how can they now?

 

Might I ask where you saw Carth say he was a galactic celebrity with an influential hand in politics?

 

HERO, ED. it's not the exact same. and heroes usually hold some weight with people, whoever they are.

[Nancy Allen``]

you know, this reminds me all of a sudden. you know those terrorists that caused 911 and the destruction of the world trade center? they thought they were doing the right thing, y'know that?

 

First you gleefully compare Revan to Hitler and then Al Qaeda. You don't have to play the games if you hate him so much. Chill.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law

 

There is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress.

[Allronix]

Guys! Yikes. This is getting WAY out of hand.

 

To steer this back on topic, say you're a Senator. The options presented for Revan are...

 

1) It's Jedi business, Jedi take care of their own

2) A pardon for Revan for actions during the Mandalorian Wars and in taking out Malak.

3) A pardon for <Fullname> on the basis that s/he is not Revan, but a new legal entity

4) A jail sentence, but with the possibility of parole for "extenuating circumstances"

5) Life in prison fror treason without parole

6) Execution

 

Which of the above (or suggest another) is most fitting? Why?

[PoiuyWired]

Just say that this Bobby guy is not Revan (cause Revan is dead some time ago at the hands of a jedi Princess) and let Bobby go. There are more important things to do as a senator, like reciving bribes and inspecting twilek dancers. And seriously, pissing off the jedis would significantly disrupts your corrupted life.

[SilentScope001]

Guys! Yikes. This is getting WAY out of hand.

 

To steer this back on topic, say you're a Senator. The options presented for Revan are...

 

1) It's Jedi business, Jedi take care of their own

2) A pardon for Revan for actions during the Mandalorian Wars and in taking out Malak.

3) A pardon for <Fullname> on the basis that s/he is not Revan, but a new legal entity

4) A jail sentence, but with the possibility of parole for "extenuating circumstances"

5) Life in prison fror treason without parole

6) Execution

 

Which of the above (or suggest another) is most fitting? Why?

 

Number 1. Or just claim Bobby is not Revan, due to Revan being killed. Really, the Republic has more things to worry about. Revan's a big, big threat, but the Republic is at the edge of death. Not to mention, Bobby can become a great hero for the Republic, and can easily act as a counter-balancing act for that evil, evil Revan who is not at all like Bobby.

 

I would want to keep an eye on him anyway, just to be on the safe sign (I really don't think Revan and Bobby are two seperate individuals, but I understand this point is in contest). How about a secret Republic survillance project? Getting Revan on "parole"? But not exactly public knowledge though. I don't think even Revan would know he is being watched for signs of treason. Oh, and prehaps some marksmen in the background in case Revan decides to fall to the Dark Side again.

 

Note: This is me, if I was a Republic Senator. It is not my own personal view on the matter, which calls for at least some sort of punishment, wheter it is imprisonment or a slap on the wrist.

[EnIgmA_XX]

5 or 6 IMO. i've already said previously why i feel that way about it, so i won't bore anyone with my talks about how evil Revan is again.

 

First you gleefully compare Revan to Hitler and then Al Qaeda. You don't have to play the games if you hate him so much. Chill.

 

not gleefully, no. it's a rather grim, but sadly accurate comparison for me to make. and i play the games because that's exactly what it is, a game. it's not real, and that's why i can bear it. i don't hate Revan in the game, he/she is a good person. but, Revan killed just so many people. the numbers are probably high enough to make us average citizens of the world die of shock. another similarity is genocide. Revan enacted genocide on the jedi, attempting to destroy that entire group of people.

 

library.thinkquest.org/13915/gather/glossary.htm

 

Deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group.[/Quote]

 

that's exactly what Revan was doing. convert, torture, and kill. i'm just thankful that it's a game.

 

BTW, just so you know i am chill. this is just a subject which i have a very strong opinion about, and it's something i am debating determindely for.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law

 

oh. wow, i've never seen that before. so wait, what does this mean? it's against internet policy or something? i don't get it. yeah, okay, so i'm sry if anybody got offended or anything...am i supposed to apologise? i'm not sure.

 

but there is a counter argument i'd like to make to this.

 

However, Godwin's Law can itself also be abused, as a distraction or diversion, to fallaciously miscast an opponent's argument as hyperbole, especially if the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate.

 

my comparison is not a hyperbole (over exagerated or over the top). in fact, it is quite similar, with the exeption of the mindwipe at the last second. if the comparisons aren't hyperbole then it is valid, isn't it? i mean, Revan is a mass murderer and genocides jedi.

[Nancy Allen``]

This week Wookiepedia's featured article is on Bastila. Reading it I noticed this part.

 

'Bastila tried to follow the Jedi Code as strictly as possible, to the point of expressing even more radical views than some Jedi Masters—she believed that nobody deserved death without a chance of redemption, a belief that would later result in Revan's return to the light side.'

 

And Bastila herself says as much. As hungry for blood as we are we are going to have to live with the fact, based on this, that we are not going to be able to satisfy our lust for vengence against Revan.

 

As for the Republic, here's my take. 'Revan died when the Jedi tried to capture her, and whoever killed Malek I'd sure like to know who they were, I'd buy them their own lightsaber factory.'

[Masgrtgr]

Speaking from a Machiavellian and political perspective I would have Revan put under constant surveillance. After that I would force Revan to do various tasks such as wiping out Sith insurgents, Giving the Republic resources and other things. If Revan truly feels guilty for his/her actions then she will accept his/her punishment.

 

Assuming that people know that Revan is alive but don't know that he is under our control or that he was (insert name here), then I will see to it that the public isn't aware that he is working for us or his that he was (insert name here) and tell them that Revan is missing. I will blackmail Revan using this information.

 

If Revan becomes dark sided again then I will put him/her down.

 

Once I'm done using Revan I will banish Revan to a planet ravaged by the Sith where he/she will spend the rest of his/her life doing community service RIGHT IN FRONT of the survivors. The survivors won't know but Revan will.

 

Poetic Justice.

[Jediphile]

Speaking from a Machiavellian and political perspective I would have Revan put under constant surveillance. After that I would force Revan to do various tasks such as wiping out Sith insurgents, Giving the Republic resources and other things. If Revan truly feels guilty for his/her actions then she will accept his/her punishment.

 

Not if you order him or her around, I think. Besides, being connected to Bastila means that Revan is already under constant surveillance. I could see redeemed Revan doing such things, but only if you appeal to redeemed nature, not if you try to dictate it. Nor should he.

 

Assuming that people know that Revan is alive but don't know that he is under our control or that he was (insert name here), then I will see to it that the public isn't aware that he is working for us or his that he was (insert name here) and tell them that Revan is missing. I will blackmail Revan using this information.

 

I guess two wrongs do make a right...

 

If Revan becomes dark sided again then I will put him/her down.

 

Given Revan's power at the end of the game - good luck!

 

Once I'm done using Revan I will banish Revan to a planet ravaged by the Sith where he/she will spend the rest of his/her life doing community service RIGHT IN FRONT of the survivors. The survivors won't know but Revan will.

 

Poetic Justice.

 

No. Torture. And cruel and unusual. That's barbarism, not justice.

[Masgrtgr]

Not if you order him or her around, I think. Besides, being connected to Bastila means that Revan is already under constant surveillance. I could see redeemed Revan doing such things, but only if you appeal to redeemed nature, not if you try to dictate it. Nor should he.

 

Bastila is unreliable for various reasons. And define dictating.

 

 

I guess two wrongs do make a right...

 

This isn't about doing wrongs this is about security dammit!

 

 

Given Revan's power at the end of the game - good luck!

 

Plant a bomb. Ambush his/her ship. It worked for the Leviathan.

 

If all else fails spread the news of Revan's identity and whereabouts to people like the Exchange.If Revan doesn't run away from the Republic or spend the rest of his/her life in hiding then he/she is going to do lots of fighting.

 

 

No. Torture. And cruel and unusual. That's barbarism, not justice.

 

I bet Revan has done worse. And really I imagine Revan's remorse could be used to stop him/her from running off.

 

And who said It was torture? It's really a resort for all of Revan's benefit.