Jedi?

[Windu Chi]

Perhaps I should have been a little more specific. Using Dirty Harry as the example, he was relentless and didn't flinch from using arguably excessive violence (ie the "wrong thing") to rid the city of parasitic scum/criminals (the "right thing"). So, while he was clearly an anti-hero style cop (much like his spaghetti western "good guys"), was he really evil? If you look at a lot of the things that were done to fight WW2, there were some pretty arguably inhumane (ie "wrong") things done by the allied countries to prosecute the war. That didn't necessarily make the allies evil.

What are you talking about, Totenkopf ?

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

How the **** did this turn serious?

[SilentScope001]

Perhaps I should have been a little more specific. Using Dirty Harry as the example, he was relentless and didn't flinch from using arguably excessive violence (ie the "wrong thing") to rid the city of parasitic scum/criminals (the "right thing"). So, while he was clearly an anti-hero style cop (much like his spaghetti western "good guys"), was he really evil? If you look at a lot of the things that were done to fight WW2, there were some pretty arguably inhumane (ie "wrong") things done by the allied countries to prosecute the war. That didn't necessarily make the allies evil.

 

Then you lead to the question of what is "evil".

 

Intentions? Well that sort of absolves everyone then, even Hitler did what he did because he thought he was right. Congrats, everyone's a good guy! Besides, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

 

Consquences? Well, that might work. But then you lead to the problem of why doing stuff for that? For example, suppose your goal is to defend the Republic. So you can do something wrong, like kill innocents. But the bigger goal of defending the Republic is what justifies the killing of innocents. But when what justifies the defending of the Republic in the first place? Those innocents you killed certaintly are not going to like what you did...

 

Some moral code that you have to follow due to the fact that "some dead guy says so"? The Jedi Code is right there, waiting to be interperted.

 

There is no wrong, or even right answer to this. How you answer this question determines what you see as "evil".

[Totenkopf]

What are you talking about, Totenkopf ?

 

Just responding to a comment from Prime on my initial post. I figure that if the force (or similiar phenomenon) were to exist, it wouldn't be necessary to simply classify yourself as either/or (ie Jedi/Sith). One could perhaps fall somewhere in between without ending up in either of the extreme camps.

 

 

@jmac---to keep it frivolous, neither Jedi or Sith. Too simplistically B&W. end of story.

 

@SS--yep, life is pretty freaking messy, man.

[Windu Chi]

Just responding to a comment from Prime on my initial post. I figure that if the force (or similiar phenomenon) were to exist, it wouldn't be necessary to simply classify yourself as either/or (ie Jedi/Sith). One could perhaps fall somewhere in between without ending up in either of the extreme camps.

Yes, I agree the Force has no preference to being good or evil.

So, you probably can handle both; a darkside power I would like to handle is Force Lightning, with out falling to the darkside.

 

If the Force do exist somewhere out there in the infinite existence, I believe it will probably be a universal intelligence that is compose of the consciousness of all life, that is linked on a Quantum scale

of electrons, protons and other subatomic particles through a hyperspace where quantum jump transitions (electron energy levels) are theorize to take place.

[Jae Onasi]

If you don't have fear in a battle, you won't anticipate the unexpected, some won't have no concern about being harm, so they will easily become vulnerable in combat.

 

I disagree. As someone who has fought with schlager (like rapier), foil, and a smidgen of epee, which is about as close to lightsaber combat as you can get on our world, I can tell you that fear in battle is definitely not your friend. In fact, fear makes it much harder to anticipate your opponent's next move because your ability to concentrate is greatly reduced, and the adrenaline surge makes it harder to keep a tight control over your weapon. The times I've bested my opponents (which is not very often since I haven't fought enough to be good) are the times when I was patient and calmly waited for my opponent to make a mistake that I could take advantage of. Every single master fighter I've seen in this system will tell you yes, they may get excited during a bout, especially if it looks like they're going to defeat a particularly challenging opponent, but none of them feel having fear is any advantage whatsoever in a battle. They constantly tell us newbie fighters to relax, as a matter of fact. Feeling fear is a big disadvantage, and it's something your opponent can smell a mile away and utilize to his benefit.

[The Source]

Simple poll, if given the opportunity would you become a Jedi? Why or why not?

It would be cool to have control over the force, but I would rather stay as a rouge force user. I think the Jedi are overated rule followers who have so many restrictions, and their Jedi Code is their biggest flaw. I like the Mara Jade character idea. Between 'Return of the Jedi' and that lame 'The New Jedi Order', Mara was pretty much on her own. I never really like the idea of a Jedi Council and Jedi Code driven force user. KotOR is awsome in that manner. Yeah, you do have to learn from the council on Dantooine, but you end up doing your own thing. When it comes to the preqel-movies, the Obi-Wan and Anakin have to keep checking in with the Council. Luke has the freedom to do his own thing. Jedi are just plainly overrated at this point. If I had a choice in the matter, I would go off on my own and learn from others who are independant.

[Prime]

I think she know it's a myth but do you ever open up your mind to other possibilities, like maybe in another universe all George Lucas imagine is a reality.

Or, do close you mind to other possibilities Prime?

Only the ridiculous ones.

 

And stay close-minded as a skeptic.

ok.

 

Well, thats your opinion, not mine.

It's not mine. It is the Jedi council's in the story.

 

Now, if you don't get it continue to think of me as the weird one

ok.

 

Perhaps I should have been a little more specific. Using Dirty Harry as the example, he was relentless and didn't flinch from using arguably excessive violence (ie the "wrong thing") to rid the city of parasitic scum/criminals (the "right thing"). So, while he was clearly an anti-hero style cop (much like his spaghetti western "good guys"), was he really evil? If you look at a lot of the things that were done to fight WW2, there were some pretty arguably inhumane (ie "wrong") things done by the allied countries to prosecute the war. That didn't necessarily make the allies evil.

Agreed. But I'm refering to the use of the dark side of the Force with good intentions. In the Star Wars universe, it simply doesn't work, as seen time and again.

 

Yes, I agree the Force has no preference to being good or evil.

So, you probably can handle both; a darkside power I would like to handle is Force Lightning, with out falling to the darkside.

I assume you are refering to your "Lucas ideas as an alternate universe"?

 

I would go off on my own and learn from others who are independant.

Jacen Solo did that, and look what happened to him

[Windu Chi]

First of all, I can't believe you are talking to me Jae.

I thought we had a falling out.

 

 

I disagree. As someone who has fought with schlager (like rapier), foil, and a smidgen of epee, which is about as close to lightsaber combat as you can get on our world, I can tell you that fear in battle is definitely not your friend. In fact, fear makes it much harder to anticipate your opponent's next move because your ability to concentrate is greatly reduced, and the adrenaline surge makes it harder to keep a tight control over your weapon. The times I've bested my opponents (which is not very often since I haven't fought enough to be good) are the times when I was patient and calmly waited for my opponent to make a mistake that I could take advantage of. Every single master fighter I've seen in this system will tell you yes, they may get excited during a bout, especially if it looks like they're going to defeat a particularly challenging opponent, but none of them feel having fear is any advantage whatsoever in a battle. They constantly tell us newbie fighters to relax, as a matter of fact. Feeling fear is a big disadvantage, and it's something your opponent can smell a mile away and utilize to his benefit.

 

I was talking about something more simple than that, I'm not talking about extreme fear I'm talking about some sense of danger, that you can be harm and your opponent in the battle may know some other combat strategy that you didn't anticipate, because you don't sense the danger.

I believe some sense of fear is a good thing, Jae.

And having no fear what so ever is a bad thing in a battle situtation.

Thats my opinion.

 

Only the ridiculous ones.

There is no ridiculous ones, everything is possible.

When you realize that, you will be more wiser.

Instead assuming that people who want to believe in other possibilities, are just naive or crazy.

 

Which are the ways of a skeptic.

[Darth333]

Which are the ways of a skeptic.

I think you meant "realistic" instead of "skeptic"...

[SilentScope001]

There is no ridiculous ones, everything is possible.

 

Exactly. Which means so is Prime's viewpoint.

 

Listen, the Star Wars universe is run by people. Canonically, Prime is backed. If you dislike Prime's viewpoint, you can create "fanon", such as "The Force needs an equal amount of good and evil". I like that fanon. It's an awesome fanonical statement. But, it's still fanon.

 

Frankly, whatever tells a good story is true to your story of Star Wars. It does not matter if it is fanon or canon, as long as you believe in it, it's true, at least for that specific story which is fanon or canon. I like Prime's canonical viewpoint more, so I consider it "true".

[Windu Chi]

I think you meant "realistic" instead of "skeptic"...

No, skeptic Darth333.

 

This universe has infinite possibilities, there is an infinite existence, we on this planet don't know everything, because the simple fact we have not left the cradle yet, to find the answers.

The physics of existence is infinitely complex, also because of Quantum Mechanics with the infinite possible universes with different world lines of spacetime of history.

A Star Wars universe is not only possible, it's highly likely.

People need to open there minds to the infinite possiblities and stop staying close-minded as a skeptic; they don't accept nothing as fact if it is not explain simple enough.

The Flawed Occam's razor belief.

Occam's razor

The principle states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible.

Or, the simplest explanation is always the best.

Flawed, it's not always the best.

Existence is not simple, there is no practical simple differention equation to explain it all.

If there is, it would have to contain infinite terms, accounting for infinite configurations of the laws of physics.

But nothing is impossible, so it is something none of us can't conceive of, yet.

 

 

Skeptics would have you believe that all those stars, planets and galaxies out there is nothing but decoration and that there is no life but what they experience here.

Experience here, they haven't left here to make that conclusion.

They are the ones that are naive and crazy, Darth333.

[Darth333]

They are the ones that are naive and crazy, Darth333.

Well then I guess I am part of them ( I mean the "naive & crazy" )

 

 

There is a huuuuge margin between believing that the other planets are there solely for decoration and believing in Jedi and SW btw....why don't you ask GL...

[tk102]

Come back, windu6, come back!

 

 

 

 

back on topic I mean

 

[Windu Chi]

Well then I guess I am part of them ( I mean the "naive & crazy" )

 

 

There is a huuuuge margin between believing that the other planets are there solely for decoration and believing in Jedi and SW btw....why don't you ask GL...

Why it's a huuuuge margin, because George Lucas imagine it?

Oh well, I have strayed off topic, but this isn't finish, Darth333.

[Prime]

No, skeptic Darth333.

 

This universe has infinite possibilities, there is an infinite existence, we on this planet don't know everything, because the simple fact we have not left the cradle yet, to find the answers.

The physics of existence is infinitely complex, also because of Quantum Mechanics with the infinite possible universes with different world lines of spacetime of history.

A Star Wars universe is not only possible, it's highly likely.

People need to open there minds to the infinite possiblities and stop staying close-minded as a skeptic; they don't accept nothing as fact if it is not explain simple enough.

The Flawed Occam's razor belief.

Occam's razor

The principle states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible.

Or, the simplest explanation is always the best.

Flawed, it's not always the best.

Existence is not simple, there is no practical simple differention equation to explain it all.

If there is, it would have to contain infinite terms, accounting for infinite configurations of the laws of physics.

But nothing is impossible, so it is something none of us can't conceive of, yet.

 

 

Skeptics would have you believe that all those stars, planets and galaxies out there is nothing but decoration and that there is no life but what they experience here.

Experience here, they haven't left here to make that conclusion.

They are the ones that are naive and crazy, Darth333.

Post of the year. No question.

[Jae Onasi]

First of all, I can't believe you are talking to me Jae.

I thought we had a falling out.

Someone forgot to tell me about this 'falling out' apparently. I never thought such a thing.

[Jeff]

Post of the year. No question.

Not enough colors.

[Windu Chi]

Someone forgot to tell me about this 'falling out' apparently. I never thought such a thing.

Well, you know how I don't like censorship, Jae.

Oh, well just chuck that one up to me being weird.

I'm just too suspicious, since the things that have happen to me in my life.

Just forget it !

[Nancy Allen``]

I disagree. As someone who has fought with schlager (like rapier), foil, and a smidgen of epee, which is about as close to lightsaber combat as you can get on our world, I can tell you that fear in battle is definitely not your friend.

 

Count Dooku's style of lightsaber combat is probably the closest the rapier gets to. Or Revan wielding one with one hand (re: cut scene when you meet Bastila). Maybe the katana.

 

With fear in a dangerous situation, I think the point being made is that if you don't have fear in those situations there's something wrong, fear is a natural reaction. Overcoming that fear however, that gives you an edge.

 

How the **** did this turn serious?

 

I blame gnomes.

 

With the Dirty Harry example, it's important to know what is right and wrong. Take Spiderman for example, he sought revenge against his uncle's killer and after he cornered him and caused him to fall to his death realised that what he was doing was wrong and instead took on the mantra 'with great power comes great responsibility'. This concept of right and wrong comes to a head when Spiderman goes after his uncle's real killer. Or still on Spiderman, look at the animated series. Silver Sable, who is voiced by Bastila. She targets a terrorist posing as an ambassodor but does so by whatever means nessecary. Suspecting that Peter Parker has evidence of one of her attempted assassinations she goes to kill him. Or how about the Punisher? His standered of crime fighting involves slaughter, torture and brutalisation of people such as drug dealers, crime families, mercenaries, woman slave runners, Yakuza and more.

[RedHawke]

Not enough colors.

Agreed...

[Totenkopf]

Originally Posted by Totenkopf

Perhaps I should have been a little more specific. Using Dirty Harry as the example, he was relentless and didn't flinch from using arguably excessive violence (ie the "wrong thing") to rid the city of parasitic scum/criminals (the "right thing"). So, while he was clearly an anti-hero style cop (much like his spaghetti western "good guys"), was he really evil? If you look at a lot of the things that were done to fight WW2, there were some pretty arguably inhumane (ie "wrong") things done by the allied countries to prosecute the war. That didn't necessarily make the allies evil.

 

Agreed. But I'm refering to the use of the dark side of the Force with good intentions. In the Star Wars universe, it simply doesn't work, as seen time and again.

 

Well, I'll defer to you on that as I'm probably not as well versed in the EU as you are. I guess I'm partially thinking that the slide to the dark side isn't irreversible (Luke and even Vader in the end). Afterall, I guess the Jedi had their own version of force lightning (eg. that energy ball that Yoda used).

[Windu Chi]

Not enough colors.

Well I didn't use that much colors because it was hurting my eyes.

[Prime]

Well, I'll defer to you on that as I'm probably not as well versed in the EU as you are.

Not necessarily. In any case, you can still debate!

 

I guess I'm partially thinking that the slide to the dark side isn't irreversible (Luke and even Vader in the end).

That's true, depending at what point the potential reversal starts.

 

Afterall, I guess the Jedi had their own version of force lightning (eg. that energy ball that Yoda used).

Actually, Yoda was deflecting it back.

[Totenkopf]

Well, I've read some of the books, but not that versed on accounts of Jedi using dark powers for "good" reasons, so I'd just be guessing. You may be right that I was giving you more credit than you feel you deserve .

 

As far as I understand it, Vader's reversal came at the end of his life, while Luke's came at around what I guess would be his 20s-30s. IIRC, he falls under the sway of the cloned emperor and goes darkside till he's brought back over after the new threat was defeated.

 

As to yoda, I guess he converted the lightning to some kind of "good" power... I suppose self defense is a "good" application of "bad" power....