Who would win this battle? Revan or Darth Sidious(Emperor Palpatine)?

[Jedi MasterRoot]

I was thinking about Jedi/Sith battles I'd like to see and this one popped into my head. I personally think it would be Revan though one of my reasons could be because i'm a fanboy. Tell me what you think.

 

Also I don't know if "Draw was the right word but I mean Stalemate if you didnt figure that out.

[jonathan7]

Darth Sidious would clearly win because according to G-cannon Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord ever; ergo he would defeat Revan. On this matter I'm of the opinion that Yoda, Luke and Anakin/Vader would also beat him as well, but Revan is certainly in the top 10 strongest force users in Star Wars history, in my list I would probably have him at 5 or 6.

[Jedi MasterRoot]

Darth Sidious would clearly win because according to G-cannon Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord ever; ergo he would defeat Revan. On this matter I'm of the opinion that Yoda, Luke and Anakin/Vader would also beat him as well, but Revan is certainly in the top 10 strongest force users in Star Wars history, in my list I would probably have him at 5 or 6.

What is g-cannon? and revan is more than a sith lord remember? also, who ever said the battle had to be in a head-2-head confrontation? it mightve been it might notve been im leaving the details of this fight to the imagination of everyon who veiws this.

[jonathan7]

What is g-cannon? and revan is more than a sith lord remember? also, who ever said the battle had to be in a head-2-head confrontation? it mightve been it might notve been im leaving the details of this fight to the imagination of everyon who veiws this.

 

Well; g-canon is what George Lucas himself has said, which means it is above normal cannon as its what the creator of the universe thinks Well you have to have it as a head to head really because otherwise Sidious could pay a non-force users like Carth to kill Revan as he could of shot him/her with a blaster while Revan slept on the Ebon Hawk. Also given that there is 4,000 years between it makes for more sense to just have a fight to decide who is more powerful. It leaves it too open, your reaction does scream of fan-boy I don't like Sidious but as I don't have an agenda over who is better out of him and Revan who is more likely out of us to have a non-biased appraisal of the situation?

[stoffe]

According to stoffe-canon Revan would win since she's 4000 years older than Sidious (but would in turn be beaten by any Sith Lords predating her by a few centuries or more).

 

The general trend in the Star Wars universe (and Fantasy in general) seems to be that the more ancient something or someone is, the more powerful it/they were. As exemplified by Kreia's comment outside one of the tombs on Korriban that current Jedi/Sith were "mere children playing with toys compared to the old masters" or some such.

 

The Ancients / First Ones / Forerunners / Creators / Progenitors etc always seem to have been way beyond anything contemporary.

[Emperor Devon]

Lucas said Sidious was the strongest. G-canon overrides all other forms of canon and fanboy theories, thread over.

 

Personally I don't think it's a fitting topic, as battle wasn't Palpatine's greatest strength by any means.

 

and revan is more than a sith lord remember?

 

Er, a wind-wiped soldier? A guy who went through Padawan-training twice?

 

also, who ever said the battle had to be in a head-2-head confrontation?

 

Not exactly the kind of fight you seemed to be portraying it as anymore, no?

[stoffe]

Lucas said Sidious was the strongest.

 

Mary Sue character detected.

 

(Wouldn't that make Mace Windu the strongest Jedi ever as well? If Anakin hadn't been present he would have beaten the Most Powerful Sith Lord Ever!™ in a duel.)

 

Besides, most of the Extended Universe (and Sidious own accounts of his own master) would seem to contradict that claim. Though I suppose it depends on how you measure "powerful". Strong in the force? Combat proficiency? Knowledge? Ruthlessness? Political/minipulative skill (power through making others do as you want), ability to actually achieve set goals?

[tk102]

Sidious had the most powerfully strong breath of all the Sith Lords. It's g-canon, go look it up.

 

 

 

 

 

(I was just about to type the Mace Windu thing before I read stoffe's last post.)

 

[Pavlos]

Mary Sue character detected.

 

(Wouldn't that make Mace Windu the strongest Jedi ever as well? If Anakin hadn't been present he would have beaten the Most Powerful Sith Lord Ever!™ in a duel.)

 

Doubtful, as far as I'm concerned (and I believe the novelization is as well...) Palpatine senses that Anakin has arrived and allows himself to be disarmed, appearing the innocent victim when the would-be Dark Lord steps over the threshold. It's just another trick to pull young Skywalker down the dark path. Palpatine is the only way Anakin can save his wife... when he's (apparently) about to be defeated, Anakin must make a decision - and he plays into Sidious' hands.

 

Plus, if he was truly defeated by Mace then it doesn't exactly explain where that huge surge of power comes from at the end of the battle (the whole "power! Unlimited power!" thing).

[jonathan7]

Doubtful, as far as I'm concerned (and I believe the novelization is as well...) Palpatine senses that Anakin has arrived and allows himself to be disarmed, appearing the innocent victim when the would-be Dark Lord steps over the threshold. It's just another trick to pull young Skywalker down the dark path. Palpatine is the only way Anakin can save his wife... when he's (apparently) about to be defeated, Anakin must make a decision - and he plays into Sidious' hands.

 

Plus, if he was truly defeated by Mace then it doesn't exactly explain where that huge surge of power comes from at the end of the battle (the whole "power! Unlimited power!" thing).

 

Hmmm, I don't think he was defeated, and he was certainly feigning how weak he was... Also given Yoda had the most force power and was the greatest Lightsaber duelist in the Jedi Order how come he drew with/couldn't defeat Palpatine yet Mace who was considered not as strong as Yoda managed to 'beat' Sidious? I'm also still firmly in the camp that Sidious would beat Revan. Whatever is said in EU doesn't make sense as surley Sidious would have an awful lot more material to study than previous Sith Lords meaning he could achieve a greater level of power?

[stoffe]

Doubtful, as far as I'm concerned Palpatine senses that Anakin has arrived and allows himself to be disarmed, appearing the innocent victim when the would-be Dark Lord steps over the threshold.

 

I choose to believe what is shown in the movie and not the possibility of a thrown fight with underlying motives since I dislike the notion that bad guys always have to be so much more powerful than any of the good guys. So it was fairly refreshing that the Big Bad™ actually got his butt handed to him in battle for once by a good side character, and thus had to fall back to less direct means of achieving victory.

 

In my interpetation MW was a more combat oriented person than Sidious, so even if the latter was overall more powerful all things considered Sidious wouldn't stand a chance in a fair 1 on 1 duel between the two.

 

Plus, if he was truly defeated by Mace then it doesn't exactly explain where that huge surge of power comes from at the end of the battle (the whole "power! Unlimited power!" thing).

 

My interpretation would be that he realized that he lacked to power to overcome MW's saber block of his Force Lightning and as such gave up rather than waste more strength on it. Once MW was unhanded by Anakin and lost his ability to defend himself matters changed and Sidious brought the toaster back out again.

 

Also given Yoda had the most force power and was the greatest Lightsaber duelist in the Jedi Order how come he drew with/couldn't defeat Palpatine yet Mace who was considered not as strong as Yoda managed to 'beat' Sidious?

 

Simple. Sidious leveled up after having won his boss battle against MW.

[jonathan7]

Simple. Sidious leveled up after having won his boss battle against MW.

 

Hehe Have you seen the recut version for the all 6 boxset?...

[Irian]

Does anyone know for sure what Lucas' exact words were? Palpatine surely was the most powerfull Sith Lord, because he ruled the whole empire - he ruled more people than any Sith Lord before... But does this mean, that he automatically was the strongest force user of all times? Or the best lightsaber-fighter? As far as I understood it, direct fighting against the Jedi stopped being the way of the Sith since Darth Bane established the rule of two, so I would at least assume, that some Sith Lord were more powerfull force users than Palpatine and better swordsmen - this abilities just weren't enough the conquer the republic...

[SilentScope001]

I choose to believe what is shown in the movie and not the possibility of a thrown fight with underlying motives since I dislike the notion that bad guys always have to be so much more powerful than any of the good guys.

 

But George Lucas said it was as such, that Palpatine threw the fight, in the Star Wars Ep. 3 DVD Commentary. You can't argue with G-Canon.

 

 

Silly George Lucas always ruining his stories. I loved Palpatine almost getting defeated and then using blind luck to save him.

 

[stoffe]

But George Lucas said it was as such, that Palpatine threw the fight, in the Star Wars Ep. 3 DVD Commentary. You can't argue with G-Canon.

 

Of course I can, since nothing in the movie indicates that Sidious was beaten on purpose, and that's all I've seen. So I go with the S-canon version where he was beaten since that makes the story better, in my opinion.

[JediMasterJambi]

Now hold on just one second Palpatine Fanboys.

First off:

Your talking about the NEC line aren't you?

"Yoda was unable to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."

Hate to break it to you buds. That lines not G-Canon. Its not even C-Canon. KJA didn't even review the line. The line is the authors (Dan Wallace) personal opinion on Palpatines strength.

The NEC is considered a GUIDE to the Chronology. It doesn't create Canon (Therefore its not considered C-Canon). His opinon is S-Canon based, just as much as yours is.

 

Second Off:

If thats NOT the line, then show me what statement are you talking about? If your gonna argue with Lucas Says then you'd better provide ATLEAST a quote. G-canon isn't G-canon unless you show GL saying it.

 

Stofee's point about ancient being better still stands as far as my thoughts go.

[adamqd]

Stofee's point about ancient being better still stands as far as my thoughts go.

 

QFT, Even before the old Hag spews about it on Korriban, I've always believed this, whether it be real world warriors or fictional.

[PoiuyWired]

Well, "Most Powerfu" is probably referring to being the most powerful when all things are concerned, including the fact that he mostly pacify the galaxy with many many troops under his command, which is true. This does not mean he is the best in everything and anything, for one he would have lost a beauty contest with many other cooler sithlords, and his taste in outfit too ...

 

Point being, in a one on one fight Palpy is probably not the best, and Revan is probably a better tactical general than him. But fact being Palpy is the first Sith to make the whole known(so called) galaxy his own.

 

That Is Power.

[JediMasterJambi]

Well, "Most Powerfu" is probably referring to being the most powerful when all things are concerned, including the fact that he mostly pacify the galaxy with many many troops under his command, which is true. This does not mean he is the best in everything and anything, for one he would have lost a beauty contest with many other cooler sithlords, and his taste in outfit too ...

 

Point being, in a one on one fight Palpy is probably not the best, and Revan is probably a better tactical general than him. But fact being Palpy is the first Sith to make the whole known(so called) galaxy his own.

 

That Is Power.

I must agree that Palpa was definatley the most politically powerful Sith Lord in history aswell.

 

The line could definatley be inturpeted as such.

EX:

"Gorge W. Bush is more "Powerful" than Arnold Schwarzenegger."

Yha...but Arnold would kick the !@$ out of Bush any day of the week...

 

However, Dan Wallace confrimed in an e-mail that what he mean't by "Powerful" was, infact, POWERFUL. (Combat Skills Included.)

Though it dosn't matter. The line is only his S-Canon based opinon. Hes a Palpa fan.

 

Edit:

But George Lucas said it was as such, that Palpatine threw the fight, in the Star Wars Ep. 3 DVD Commentary. You can't argue with G-Canon.

At first I was willing to agree with you dude...If George says it, I believe it...Unfortunatley I am a stubborn Mace fanboy. So I decided to check you on this.

 

I didn't want to de-credit your statement without being absolutely sure. (So I had to wait 1 day to get my Ep. 3 DVD back from my brother.) I watched chapters 20 - 31 with commentary on (3 times at least), and even re-checked the deleted scenes. George never...ever...said Palpa threw the fight. No one did.

In fact...George specifically says in Chapter 27...

(Which is entitled Mace vs Sidious)

"Okay...Well this sequence...uh...Always started out with Mace...Uh >overpowering< Palpatine, and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace, and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber. And it always was that Anakin cut the lightsaber out of his hand. But this part (After Palpatine had already been disarmed, and first attempted to shoot force lightning at Mace.) where he, he pretends to lose his power and be weak, was something that I added later." G-Canon

George tells us he was depicting Mace as OVERPOWERING Palpatine.

Debate over. Mace defeated Sidious in combat.

G-Canon over-rides all. Mace is better with a lightsaber than Palpatine.

 

And to clear things up even further, Yoda didn't lose to Palpatine. IF ANYTHING, it was a DRAW.

Proof:

1. Palpatine TRIED TO RUN from Yoda. PALPA KNEW HE COULDN'T DEFEAT YODA.

2. Palpatine realized that Yoda was his superior in Lightsaber combat early in the duel. He used RANGED combat against Yoda afterwards. (He couldn't do this in his office against Mace)

3. Also note that this is after 66 occurred. Yoda has just finished feeling the loss of at least (guesstamation) 80% of the Jedi of the Order. Including the lives of children, students, and some of his closest friends. As a Jedi, he can't succumb to Fear (Fear of also dying at the hands of Sidious, fear of seeing the end of ALL JEDI.), or Anger (Revenge on Sidious for all the loved ones he had killed.) And therefore despite the fact he was fighting Palpatine he also had to restrain these emotions of Fear and Anger. And may have even FAILED to do so, and therefore was unable to defeat him due to that.

[Jedi MasterRoot]

WOW! This became more of a heated disscussion then I thought it would. Though I will point out that you all drifted away from the topic. It was a good argument but know you are all just talking about how what and why Sidious did what he did in Eps. 3. This is SUPPOSED to be about the winner of a duel between Revan and Sidious so I would appreciate it if you stayed on topic. Though that was a good argument none the less

[Alexander the Great]

Except for history and character information and stuff, Lucas contradicts himself all the time. So do all of his slave minions.

 

Sidious wasn't the most powerful Sith; if he was, he could have destroyed most of the Jedi Order himself without much trouble. Marka Ragnos, possibly the most powerful, could've done that with ease.

 

Anyway, read my post in the "Nihilus vs Revan" thread regarding Revan.

[Masgrtgr]

Cosidering how Palpatine actually has several feats of strength whereas Revan has no feats whatsoever I'd say Palpy wins a feat contest.

 

And to claim the warriors of the past in real life are superior to the warriors of the future in real life as well is pure nonsense. I'd like to see a Spartan beat a Marine.

 

In any case seeing as how the Ancient Sith were pretty much exterminated I have doubts about their superiority. After all if they were so superior to the the future Sith then why were they exterminated?

[Nikkolas]

Mace Windu beat Palpatine in a lightsaber duel...while Mace had a style he specifically created that is extra effective against any Dark Side user.

 

But Palpatine is MUCH stronger than Mace when it comes to the Force.

 

Also, I take it no one here has actually read Dark Empire. IT's completely canon and states Palpatine is not only the most powerful Sith ever, he shows it in the comic.

 

Or can you name another Sith who can create a Hyperspace Wormhole or annihilate a starfleet with ease?

 

First off:

Your talking about the NEC line aren't you?

"Yoda was unable to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."

Hate to break it to you buds. That lines not G-Canon. Its not even C-Canon. KJA didn't even review the line. The line is the authors (Dan Wallace) personal opinion on Palpatines strength.

The NEC is considered a GUIDE to the Chronology. It doesn't create Canon (Th

 

Uh-huh.

 

And you have proof for ANY of this?

 

And every Sith who has come after the Ancients have surpassed them all in power.

 

Or can you tell me anY Ancient who did things like Exar, Nihilus or Palpatine?

 

In fact, what feats AT ALL can you guys name for the Ancient Sith?

 

When Ludo and Naga fought, Naga's immense displays of power included dropping a brick on Ludo's head and...that's all.

 

The Ancient Sith, by everything shown, are probably the weakest era.They needed artifacts to agument their abilities.

[stoffe]

Also, I take it no one here has actually read Dark Empire. IT's completely canon and states Palpatine is not only the most powerful Sith ever, he shows it in the comic.

 

Or can you name another Sith who can create a Hyperspace Wormhole or annihilate a starfleet with ease?

 

Sounds like very good reasons not to read Dark Empire to me, Mary Sue characters tend to annoy me, as does the EUs insistence to drag the Star Wars universe away from the movies in a direction of more traditional Fantasy/magic.

 

Starwars as portrayed by the movies were, while fiction, presented in a way that makes it feel plausible; a mix of futuristic technology-based sci-fi with some mystical/occult aspects. Jedi/Sith, while powerful, were quite mortal and could be overwhelmed, surprised and killed just like any other being. Their powers, while incredible, were not over the top. They were given a distinct advantage, but were not portrayed as living gods.

 

When you bring in more traditional fantasy/magic aspects and start to have immortal characters casually juggling with planets or re-shaping the galaxy at a whim things go from interesting to ridiculous, in my opinion.

[Irian]

Sidious wasn't the most powerful Sith; if he was, he could have destroyed most of the Jedi Order himself without much trouble. Marka Ragnos, possibly the most powerful, could've done that with ease.

 

Why do you think that? The resurrected Marka Ragnos was beaten by ONE rather green Jedi Knight...