JediMaster12 Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Remember Force powers aren't inherently evil, it's how you use them as so Kyle Katarn tells us. You do make a point. Both sides are guilty of killing and both sides can claim it as justifiable homicide. From their poinr of view of course. The concept of evil comes from the person. The person wielding it is where the evil is. Take a dog. It is your friend yet it can be used as a weapon. Does that mean the dog is evil? No the owner who uses the dog to attack say a child, that is evil. All comes to point of view.
Rev7 Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 I agree with you though, most if not all Sith seem to be evil. And their "purpose" is definitly to be evil, since Lucas intented them to be the bad guys in Star Wars. But in EU and Kotor... I'd like to have a few shades of gray in the Black and white concept. Thank you Remember Force powers aren't inherently evil, it's how you use them as so Kyle Katarn tells us. That is generally the point that I wanted to get across Lance Monance and Darth Deralia. then luke skywalker is evil when hes forcechoking two gamorreans?! Where does it say that Luke force-choked the gamorreans? I think that if he did that he would be considered a intruder and would be fired upon. Anyways can you get some sort of quote to prove that? I may be wrong and you may be right, I just want some confromation. :)
Corinthian Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Watch the beginning part of Return of the Jedi. He Force-chokes the two Gamorreans who attempt to grab him. He just mind tricks Bib Fortuna.
Rev7 Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 I have, I may be wrong but I think that Luke only restrained the two gamorreans. I will have to check it out...
Corinthian Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 Yeah, he restrained them. Force Restrained. By the neck.
Rev7 Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 You are right, but I don't think that Luke actually killed them...
Lance Monance Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 So? Again, why does it matter HOW you kill someone? Imagine a lightsaber can be as painful as any DS power... And Luke afterwards kills a lot of people. They might not have been evil, suppose they were somehow pressured into Jabba's service!
Sephira Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 Evil = morally bad. Frankly speaking isnt "good" just merely a point of view? then luke skywalker is evil when hes forcechoking two gamorreans?! very interesting point of view Aren't telekenetical attacks core force powers? Because luke himself has his own variant of sith lightning, rather its called "emerald lightning or electric judgment" Does that make him evil? Mace windu exhibits a force crush on grievious, does that make him evil? No Does the sith potray themselves as evil? No, but do the people potray the sith as evil? Yes
adamqd Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 Frankly speaking isnt "good" just merely a point of view? If the "good" is Bacon yes... If the "good" is murder, Betrayal, creating mistrust then no.. Unless your a Sith of course, then it is your point of view..... (Walks away scratching head) Because luke himself has his own variant of sith lightning, rather its called "emerald lightning or electric judgment" Does that make him evil? Although it looks like force lightning, it has the effects of force shock, and Jacen explicitly says it doesn't cause death, but as you imply, the emotions involved in using this power are anger and aggression.
Lord Revan63 Posted October 19, 2007 Posted October 19, 2007 I find the Sith Great but at one point no Both Jedi and Sith are good and bad.... Sith---they care for eachother(meaning to stay alive in a way)but they kill whoever is not strong. Jedi---care for all things, but innocent people die while they wait and meditate!
Sephira Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 If the "good" is Bacon yes... If the "good" is murder, Betrayal, creating mistrust then no.. Unless your a Sith of course, then it is your point of view..... (Walks away scratching head) I think you fail miserably at what im trying to get at. Good IS a point of view in reality, i can say "this guys rhis this guys that" and then kill him, i can take that as a good deed why? Simply because it is merely a point of view. Some people view smoking as good, some view murder as good. Why? Point of view Next time try to be more open minded if not then shut up. Edit: Sephira, please refrain from telling people to "shut up" that is flame-baiting and is as much a no-no as flaming around here. Best to deal with the subject at hand and not the other poster. -RH Although it looks like force lightning, it has the effects of force shock, and Jacen explicitly says it doesn't cause death, but as you imply, the emotions involved in using this power are anger and aggression. Jacens a fallible character, his knowledge of the force is less than lukes and sidious. Just because he says it is doesnt mean it is. If it doesnt cause death then why was luke killing vongs with emerald lightning despite the fact he isnt using emotions?
adamqd Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 I think you fail miserably at what im trying to get at. Good IS a point of view in reality, i can say "this guys rhis this guys that" and then kill him, i can take that as a good deed why? Simply because it is merely a point of view. Some people view smoking as good, some view murder as good. Why? Point of view Next time try to be more open minded if not then shut up. {Snip} I was having a laugh, what did you think I meant by it?! Lighten up a bit! Edit: Removed flaming part of post, please use the report a post feature next time instead of taking the flame bait from another poster. You can report a post by clicking the little yellow dot () below the persons Avatar section. Thanks. -RH
Corinthian Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 He's got a point. Jacen isn't exactly a paragon of the Light Side. *Cough*LegacyoftheForce*cough* {Snip} Removing this part as the issue is being dealt with. -RH Killing doesn't necessarily lead to the Dark Side. Is it any better to kill someone with the Force directly rather than using the Force to augment your physical abilities so you can slice them in half with a lightsaber? I would say not.
adamqd Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 Killing is the Jedi and the sith's business, whether they protect something or seek to oppress it, the process is the same... kill the opposition, to a degree its how the user manipulates the force that has further repercussions, abuse of one's power.
Lord Revan63 Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 Killing is the Jedi and the sith's business, whether they protect something or seek to oppress it, the process is the same... kill the opposition, to a degree its how the user manipulates the force that has further repercussions, abuse of one's power. I agree 100% with you!!!!
Jae Onasi Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 Deleted off-topic posts. The issue has been handled. Sephira and adamqd, please take any other issues to PMs or contact one of us moderators. Back on topic please, everyone. Thanks.
Jediphile Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 This discussion seems moot, since it's basically a very ancient discussion of whether "good" is a universal "truth" or relative to each case... If you're interested in that, please refer to the following terms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_absolutism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/absolutism (2.) http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/relativism A person who belives that "good" as well as "evil" and what is an example of either is relative is a person who belives in moral relativism, or just plain relativism. If a person holds, however, that that there are ANY (as in any at all) moral principles that apply regardless social structure, traditions, or taboo, then the person believes in absolutism (moral absolutism). Considering these terms can be enlightening, and I certainly would not attempt to dissuade anyone from continuing the discussion, but I would still advice people that they should not expect anyone to change their opinions as a result of the discussion, since I doubt a resolution will be reached... After all, philosophers and theologians have struggled with this discussion for a long time, so to me it looks like an undead thread. YMMV.
Nancy Allen`` Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 You kidding right? Of course the Sith are evil. Murder, torture, on innocents, that's evil in my book.
Tommycat Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 Murder/torture of innoscents: Then Christians are evil for the crusades/inquisitions/Salem witch trials. Jedi are also guilty of such things. In fact perhaps the Jedi are more responsible for it than they will admit. Their strict code and inaction led to murders. "Evil prevails when good men do nothing"
Nancy Allen`` Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 *snip* But you're right, the Jedi should act, such as the Mandalorian Wars. But Sith, they take gratification from the acts they do, unlike say a soldier, Jedi, nay even a religious terrorist or some such who do what they do as a matter of course.
Rogue Nine Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 This is not the place for that sort of discussion, so please, take it elsewhere.
Tommycat Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 Sorry, I thought it was relevent. In a discussion of evil and evil deeds, is it not important to include an example that can be related to? I suppose I could have used the tactics used by the Colonials during the American Revolution being considered "evil" by the british empire. Only problem with that is unless people study history, it's easy to forget that one man's terrorist is another man's revolutionary.
Rogue Nine Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 Use whatever example you want, just keep it relevant to the topic at hand. Not once in your post did you mention Star Wars. Anyway, back on topic, end of discussion, thanks.
Tommycat Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 (OT: Sorry Rogue Nine, I'll be more careful to explain HOW it relates in the future) At any rate There are countless examples from the SW Universe. Heck even in TSL the examples are everywhere. The Jedi hiding on Katarr. Which led to the destruction of that planet. As it was stated that Darth Nihilus was mere hunger, he was more like a beast. Which is the more evil, the rancor, or the one who leads the rancor to a bunch of children.
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