Tech News and Gossip thread...

[Astrotoy7]

Considering BR has won the format war....HDMI is the current winner as far as HD connectivity

 

For those that are curious about how DVI fits in, HDMI's video component is actually based on the DVI standard, but of course HDMI can also carry audio as well

 

Whilst I havent been entangled in any HDCP snares, as far as the dimensions and functionality of the HDMI connection, it's quite impressive (roughly like usb size)

 

 

However, to paint the fullest picture(as I always try to do) !

 

Of course, the other player which D333 may have been referring to is, as negsun mentioned, Displayport, which is likely to become the pc standard in cpl of years. It is license free(HDMI is a brand), which means manufacturers will be able to implement it without pretending to raise device prices Because it supports RGB and YCbCr colour spaces, it is likely to smoothen the transition than a straight to HDMI jump does for current kit. AMD and Samsung, Dell will be rolling out DP kit, nvidia, intel etc to follow along, maybe sony a bit more slowly. Those with HDMI kit(eg, a ps3, or gfx card) should not dismay though, whilst HDMI and DP arent the same type of signal at nuts n bolts level, a DP connector will allow you to plug in your HDMI gizmo and play happily away. Like the DVI>vga converters you have now, you'll eventually get DP>VGA, DP>DVI, DP>HDMI to keep all the peeps happy

 

@D333 >> FYI the Dell 3008WFP 30-inch that was released in Jan this year has DP connectors. But before you jump out and buy one, read some reviews first. I had heard some rumblings about the Dell 30", but not sure if it applies to these or its non DP predecessors.

 

but I think I'll wait for the next generation for extra connectivity options.

 

we all now what happened last time someone did that

 

 

mtfbwya

[Darth333]

Well this review says "Secondly, and this is what really hurts this product, is that its DVI interface isn't HDCP compatible. With a monitor of this size this is more than a problem!

 

Samsung and our tests with a Blu-Ray movie confirmed this non compatibility."

 

Since I was thinking of possibly replacing both my tv and monitor with something like that at some point, I'd like to have something that's HDCP compliant as I would intend to keep it for a little while. In the meantime my current monitor is satisfactory and I am not in a hurry to replace it (also, as said above I'd have to move things around quite a lot in my condo to organize a new "workstation" with such a monitor)

[Negative Sun]

Well this review says "Secondly, and this is what really hurts this product, is that its DVI interface isn't HDCP compatible. With a monitor of this size this is more than a problem!

 

Samsung and our tests with a Blu-Ray movie confirmed this non compatibility."

 

Since I was thinking of possibly replacing both my tv and monitor with something like that at some point, I'd like to have something that's HDCP compliant as I would intend to keep it for a little while. In the meantime my current monitor is satisfactory and I am not in a hurry to replace it (also, as said above I'd have to move things around quite a lot in my condo to organize a new "workstation" with such a monitor)

Darth333, does it have to be a 30" one?

 

The reason I'm asking is because the resolution for that size of screen is at a whopping 2560x1600, consider that Full HD is "only" at 1920x1080, when you play 1080p at full screen on such a monitor, even with HDCP compliant components, you'll notice some upscaling and loss of quality...I would personally go for a monitor that's about 24" because that resolution is at 1920x1200, so you can see where I'm going with this

 

If your input is from a PS3 or other HD equipment, I think a 24" screen would be more sensible and save you a bit more money too (there's 26" and 27" variants at the 1920x1200 resolution, with the difference being the same as 20" and 22" screens sharing the same res)

 

I would personally recommend this screen, but check out the rest of that site as well, it has a comparison of screens that'll blow you away, some even have video reviews

 

As usual, this is only my opinion, if your French isn't up to that task, click the button at the top righ to swap to English

 

Any more questions, ask away or PM me if you want.

[Q]

My panel recommendation to D3 would have be one of the IPS variety. IPS is superior to MVA in just about every way, but it is generally more expensive. Since D3 is in teh monies that shouldn't be as much factor for her. IPS panels are the finest LCDs you can buy.

[Astrotoy7]

D3... I feel you are a bit confused. Heres some points to add to negsun and Q

 

*HDCP is so utterly irrelevant!! its a 1600p. monitor There is no device, no media nor gpu that supports HDCP output at 1600p. To this end, I spend much of my spare time pointing and laughing at HDCP. [/1600p junkie]

 

 

For those curious, HDCP isnt a super duper design standard, its a butt ugly copy protection countermeasure, designed by those most noblest of *****, Intel.

 

 

If you want to plug your 'out of the box' BR player in, theyre optimised for 'up to' 1080p for starters. Even if it coudl work,(which it doesnt) it wont look right. Its UHD !

 

Its not really a good idea to use as a home theatre/tv screen IMO. You can get a much larger screen at 1080 or 720p and it will look better with its native 1:1 pixel mapping

 

*These things are really designed to plug a PC into. No other device is capable of native 2560x1600 output. I actually first saw one in a university engineering dept, where some serious 3D CAD work was being done on it....not watching "Miss Congeniality 2" on BR

 

*I do a heap of video editing, whether on my own pc in adobe premiere pro, or plugging in a friends Mac and using FinalCut Pro. Having the screen *real estate* is vital for this type of stuff.

 

*Gaming. If you have games that your graphics card can run at 1900x1200 or above, they look divine....

 

The question the observant clever people may ask:

If I have a BR drive in my pc, will it not play on this screen If its just a BR data disc, HDCP is irrelevant. Its the HDCP on movies etc that are the issue. As always, there are means around this(just like macro CP in DVDs etc) You can use AnyDVD HD etc to bypass HDCP from a HDCP disc, but as I mentioned above, it WONT support the 1600p, so you end up scaling down to make it work.... scaling down UHD is a crime against humanity and should not be allowed!!!

 

Conclusion:

 

get one of these monitors if:

1. you want to have a large workspace, great for image and video editing

2. you want to game at 1600p

 

Don't bother

*If you plan on using it purely for BR movies. Just buy a big 720p/1080p TV. duh! way cheaper

 

You can use a ps3 on it with a special converter gadget, but again, be aware of the downscaling to 1080p(or lower), depending on the game. longstoryshort: not ideal

 

mtfbwya

[Char Ell]

So did anybody see Tom's Hardware review of SSD drive power consumption in notebook computers?

Flash-based solid state drives (SSDs) are considered to be the future of performance hard drives, and everyone seems to be jumping on the bandwagon. We are no exception, as we have been publishing many articles on flash-based SSDs during the last few months, emphasizing the performance gains and the potential power savings brought by flash memory. And there is nothing wrong with this, since SLC flash SSDs easily outperform conventional hard drives today (SLC = single level cell). However, we have discovered that the power savings aren’t there: in fact, battery runtimes actually decrease if you use a flash SSD.

I have to admit I didn't see that one coming... :-S

 

In related news, OCZ has announced pricing for their latest SSD's utilizing MLC, 30 GB = USD$299, 60 GB = USD$449, 128 GB = USD$649. Not yet in my price range but exciting to see that SSD prices are coming down.

[Astrotoy7]

Asus Radeon HD 4870 Review Looks like the 4870 is acquitting itself well against the 260, even in HD. Not bad at all, considering teh price difference Looks like the GDDR5 is coming in handy

 

However, an interesting editorial note, for those considering buying one, might be worth getting in quick?

 

...GDDR5 memory is [relatively] scarce, and only produced by Samsung. This might be the only factor limiting the 4870. If there isn't enough GDDR5 memory, then there won't be enough Radeon HD 4870 boards to sell. And then price versus demand will kick in thus the prices will rise. At this moment, prices do seem to be stable yet I have seen some vendors ripping off their customers at 400+ USD for this 299,- USD priced product.

 

BFG GTX 280 OC Edition Review averages 47FPS at 19x12 on crysis at medium settings

 

9800GTX PLUS adds a few extra frames for extra bucks, is it worth it ??

 

4850 in crossfire, not a showstopper Looks like theres work to be done on those Xfire drivers AMD

 

Conclusion:

Theres a whole bunch of new cards on the market with similar performance. They key factors that will influence your decision will be

*price

*brand loyalty

*colour of PCB

 

 

Still no single card that can do crysis at 1600p/high , but theyre getting there

 

mtfbwya

[Q]

So are you happy that your beloved AMD is doing well in at least one area? Perhaps the aquisition of ATI wasn't the grave error so many thought it was at the time.

 

Sad thing about Crossfire. When it does scale, it's excellent; when it doesn't, well, it just doesn't.

 

Have you read anything about R700 aka 4870X2? Some form of GPU interconnect wizardry built into the dies themselves is supposed to make the two GPUs on that card behave like one (in other words, no Crossfire hit-or-miss). If it works it will be a GTX280 killer/dominator for sure. So there's your high end from AMD, Astro.

 

Most of the tech sites have proclaimed DAAMIT the winner of this stage of the GPU wars, and I couldn't be happier. I'm thoroughly impressed with the price/performance of 48xx. AMD has been in desperate need of a win for quite a while now.

[Astrotoy7]

.... AMD has been in desperate need of a win for quite a while now.

 

Its a great purchase option to be sure

 

However, Im sure Im not the only one that cant help but notice how the 9800/260/280 is achieving what it can on GDDR3...and these AMD boards on GDDR5!

 

Some GDDR(Graphic Double Data Rate) Fun Facts:

*GDDR v5 ups the maximum data throughput to 20GB/s, up a bit on the 16GB/s today's top-of-the-line GDDR 4 chips deliver.

*The bandwidth is 5Gb/s, delivered over a 32-bit bus, more than double the 2Gb/s of GDDR3.

 

If you are a tech ubernerd genius, you may also be interested in reading all about GDDR5 in this Whitepaper from developers Qimonda.

 

It is almost like AMD, rather than truly delving into making their processor 'all it can be' is more content to let its performance gains ride on GDDR5... if that is what they are doing, it is a bad and lazy move[iMO], and will come back to bit them in the backside in quick fashion.

 

When nvidia is ready to go GDDR5, I daresay there'll be some fantabulous, but expensive results

 

Conclusion:

*If your heart is set on a 4870, probably best to get one quick

*If you still arent impressed by the high end numbers...sit this wave of GPU releases out.

 

@Q >> What Id really love to see from AMD is a similarly impressive quaddie, clocked at 3.0+ and staying cool and quiet Then me and my wallet can get busy

 

mtfbwya

[Q]

It is almost like AMD, rather than truly delving into making their processor 'all it can be' is more content to let its performance gains ride on GDDR5... if that is what they are doing, it is a bad and lazy move[iMO], and will come back to bit them in the backside in quick fashion.

1) Most of the benchies out there would seem to refute this, especially at high res with AA.

 

2) After seeing the discussions on the tech forums about how DAAMIT purposefully nerfed the 4850's cooler in order to keep it from being "too good" (compared to the 4870) for it's segment of the market, I'm lead to believe that while important, all of that memory bandwidth just isn't utilized by R770 and that an overclocked 4850 would perform almost as well. This theory will be proven or disproven in the next few days/weeks when all of the overclocking software out there is updated for these cards and we start seeing some real overclocking results.

 

My bet is that a properly cooled and overclocked 4850 will be the best price/performance deal out there by far. And, yeah, they're still being sold here and there for around $150.

[Negative Sun]

If I had to go for a GPU that would be in my price range ATM, it would definitely be the 4850, especially with the performance/price ratio that one has!

[Astrotoy7]

1) Most of the benchies out there would seem to refute this, especially at high res with AA....

 

How so Q? There isnt a reference benchmark for nv 9xxx or 2xx series card with GDDR4 or GDDR5, only GDDR3. Considering the performance differences, It can easily be argued that at a nuts and bolts level, these cards are actually technicially not on the same playing field.

 

AMD invested into the development of GDDR5, it seems they made a conscious decision to maximise it gains.

 

I would simply like to submit that all reviews and benchmarks report this difference, and that everyone be aware when they report the differences. Apparently, the current series of 9xxx and 2xx cards are not GDDR5 compatible.

 

A true comparison of the performance abilities of these chipsets is only applicable when coupled with the same grade of Graphic Double Data Rate memory.

 

This in no way detracts from the 4870 being a great purchase option, but people simply need to be aware If you ever played Mortal Kombat, you would know that "knowledge is power"!

 

It seems nv made a conscious decision(probably from a cost perspective) to stick with GDDR3.

 

mtfbwya

[Q]

Makes one wonder how much Nvidia would have the nerve to charge for a GTX280 if it had GDDR5 as well as how much difference it would make.

 

Like I said before, benchies of overclocked 4850s will be very telling one way or another.

[Negative Sun]

Well if AMD helped develop GDDR5, why should nVidia reap the benefits of it? I call that fair game as they aren't developing the memory for systems in general, just their own boards, if it brings them back up to speed with nVidia who cares how they get there? Boo-Hoo AMD's got GDDR5, so what? If this market was anywhere close to being fair, AMD would outsell Intel hands down, we'd still have kicka$$ Voodoo GPUs and IBM wouldn't be a vague and distant memory...

[Astrotoy7]

lolz..AMD dont own rights or patents negsun. Qimonda does, Samsung has bought a license and is making the stuff. AMD have bought the license to use it on their cards.

 

It is absolutely inconceivable that should nvidia want to use GDDR5, that they couldnt afford to buy a license to use it themselves. Qimonda and Samsung would be beyond stupid for knocking back such a wad of $$

 

Its AMDs internal R&D that has us all hella-worried

 

mtfbwya

[Negative Sun]

It is absolutely inconceivable that should nvidia want to use GDDR5, that they couldnt afford to buy a license to use it themselves.

Jinx!!!

 

Nvidia in money problems...

 

Doesn't look like nVidia's gonna be paying anyone else but their customers back if the defect chip numbers keep going up...

It's not just the financial blow, but the fact their chips have been identified as "weak", which isn't going to do much to bring in new customers, on the contrary! And with AMD's 4850/4870 just out it looks like that timing is perfect for AMD, but the worst ever for nVidia.

 

AMD's gonna love this one lolz!

[Astrotoy7]

yeah, nvidias stock holders werent happy at all

 

Still, clever analyst types did not seems massively worried about nvidias future, simply because of their extensive range of products, high sales volume and continuing R&D.

 

Also, people seem to forget that these companies are insured to the hilt, and are likely to come out of it with more money than they lost(after a settlement) This is the way the corporate world works kids Its more a job for the PR folks than the bean counters at this stage

 

In other interesting news, AMD has revealed it 4870 X2 to be released in July, with 2GB of that magical GDDR5.Intrestingly, it is said to be priced at $499, not far from nvidias current flagship card...

 

will this card crack cryisis 1600p?? Old Uncle Astro eagerly awaits benchies due later this month! And what will be nvidias response we wonder ?

 

But I can definitely see 2GB GDDR5 being an endless source of ubergeek e-penis bragging rights for those willing to part with the $499

 

mtfbwya

[Q]

2GB! Insane!

[Negative Sun]

It'll probably have a PCB the size of a small country though

[Astrotoy7]

It'll probably have a PCB the size of a small country though

 

yar, tis bigger than liechtenstein!

 

 

sauce

 

2GB WTF

 

I dunno, I first read that at engadget, and havent seen it anywhere else since... must be another of engadget's silly typos 2GB GDDR5 would probably clock in at more than $499!

 

From the above source:

Well, according to these images, the most noticeable difference is black PCB instead of red. Between two 55nm GPUs there is still a PCI Express 2.0 bridge. The card utilizes 16 GDDR5 memory chips produced by Qimonda with total capacity of 1GB.

 

mtfbwya

[Q]

Well, apparently the the gauntlet that AMD has thrown down has had a profound effect. Competition is a good thing, even for Nvidiots.

 

EDIT: In case the price changes as it's known to do at the drop of a hat, the MSI GTX260 is now $260 after rebate.

 

ALL HAIL COMPETITION!

[Astrotoy7]

...

Have you read anything about R700 aka 4870X2? Some form of GPU interconnect wizardry built into the dies themselves is supposed to make the two GPUs on that card behave like one (in other words, no Crossfire hit-or-miss). If it works it will be a GTX280 killer/dominator for sure. So there's your high end from AMD, Astro....

 

Yes, it seems their highest end yet to date is nigh

 

No 4870X2 review, but whilst we wait, the 4870 in X-FIRE outguns the GTX280 896MB, Crysis refuses to co-operate

 

Obviously (and I hate to use that word, yet it is the reality) with multi-GPU setups, you are bound to run into problems as well. We surely had them as for example Frontlines would not even start, Crysis whatever we tried did not show performance improvements....

 

Of course, we'd like to see a GTX280-SLI vs 4870-XFIRE set of benchies, and please include a test of Crysis maxxed.

 

Looks like AMD and Crytek need to send each other some IMS and eml.s and get busy fixin stuff

 

mtfbwya

[stingerhs]

well, it does look like the ATI/Nvidia wars are back in full swing once again and all within two months. this doth hearken back to ye days of old with the X1900's and ye venerable 7900's...

 

in the meantime, any word on the CPU front?? information hasn't been very forthcoming in recent months with all the fireworks surrounding the GPU wars.

[Negative Sun]

in the meantime, any word on the CPU front?? information hasn't been very forthcoming in recent months with all the fireworks surrounding the GPU wars.

AMD has been releasing some unimpressing Phenom X3 and X4 variants, though better than the ones plagued by the TLB bug, they're still nowhere near challenging anything Intel has to offer...

 

In the meantime, Intel is solidifying their 45nm lineup and releasing the last chipset before stepping over to Nehalem.

 

So until Nehalem arrives with a bang (probably), or AMD releases something worth buying (highly unlikely, but hey, who knows?) it's all quiet on the CPU front...

[Astrotoy7]

...in the meantime, any word on the CPU front?? information hasn't been very forthcoming in recent months with all the fireworks surrounding the GPU wars.

 

There are some reviewers out there that are starting to think that the AM2 Phenoms are 'irrevocably broke'.... Maybe when AM3 hits?? Q may be able to tell us more

 

For 'average users' many wouldnt notice the difference if they bought an AMD based off the shelf compy >> It would be moreso the cost factors theyd be interested in, so AMD can still have a decent share of that market.

 

Its only high end work/gaming app users that need that extra punch. Intel has been unhindered and unchallenged in this area(unfortunately)... although, again, because GPUs need to catch up to demanding game engines, CPUs havent had the focus they had in the past. Im sure that will change again.

 

Of course, Fusion could be the Ace up AMDs sleeve.

 

What is amusing is that AMD have been saying theyre happy to shoot for the middle market, and with the 4870(and soon the 4870X2) have two products that sit nicely alongside the 9800, 260 and even the 280...and at a significantly more attractive price.

 

It has taken everyone by surprise...even the chaps at Guru3D, who are GPU junkies par excellence. (I make all my gaming GPU purchase decisions after combing through their reviews)

 

Pure bliss, pure victory, AMD's empire strikes back ! Let me call it, though both cards will win and lose from each other here and there, the Radeon HD 4870 is in fact competing with the GeForce GTX 260 in performance. Nobody expected that, well I certainly didn't!

 

I have to come clean...Ive pretty much decided that I'm going to grab a 4870 to pop in my AM2 shuttle to last it until I do a full upgrade next year. Gosh I hope AMD get their CPU act together by then...! It wont give me the 1600p kickassery I desire, but one of these definitely outshines my 8800GTS 640..

 

I will keep an eye on 4870X2 price(and dimensions), but am not hugely keen on 4870X2..... will have to see their upcoming benchies...., if the 4870-XF benchies are any guide, it must surely rival the mega expensive 280.

 

mtfbwya