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Lucasarts and Bioware Corp. partnership OFFICIAL - At last


zaykodroid

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Whoa. What is up with this sudden "Oh, if its an MMO, that will be just fine, red, red wine, makes me feel so fine." attitude?

An MMO would ruin this game.

I use to be an avid player of the Warcraft RTS games...which were RUINED by WoW.

I now have to pay monthly, and level a hero to 70, before I can even gain any really cool game content. Which, by the way, ruins any type of real life any person has. Not to mention they completley ruin most of the major characters by making them "Bosses."

 

"O, hey guys! I just finished raiding the Malachor V Dungeon, and killed Scion! He dropped an epic Darkside Lightsaber! I'll tell you about it latter though, I have to get 2 hours of sleep before I go to work."

Did I mention that to kill him you would also need 39 other level 70 players help? Lol?

For the love of god. Keep it an RPG.

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A friend of mine told me that there'll be KOTOR 3 but it will be a MMO and that it was confirmed. Is that true?

Whoa. What is up with this sudden "Oh, if its an MMO, that will be just fine, red, red wine, makes me feel so fine." attitude?

An MMO would ruin this game.

I use to be an avid player of the Warcraft RTS games...which were RUINED by WoW.

I now have to pay monthly, and level a hero to 70, before I can even gain any really cool game content. Which, by the way, ruins any type of real life any person has. Not to mention they completley ruin most of the major characters by making them "Bosses."

 

"O, hey guys! I just finished raiding the Malachor V Dungeon, and killed Scion! He dropped an epic Darkside Lightsaber! I'll tell you about it latter though, I have to get 2 hours of sleep before I go to work."

Did I mention that to kill him you would also need 39 other level 70 players help? Lol?

For the love of god. Keep it an RPG.

I just can't agree more! You just took my words from my mouth. That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

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Whoa. What is up with this sudden "Oh, if its an MMO, that will be just fine, red, red wine, makes me feel so fine." attitude?

An MMO would ruin this game.

I use to be an avid player of the Warcraft RTS games...which were RUINED by WoW.

I now have to pay monthly, and level a hero to 70, before I can even gain any really cool game content. Which, by the way, ruins any type of real life any person has. Not to mention they completley ruin most of the major characters by making them "Bosses."

 

"O, hey guys! I just finished raiding the Malachor V Dungeon, and killed Scion! He dropped an epic Darkside Lightsaber! I'll tell you about it latter though, I have to get 2 hours of sleep before I go to work."

Did I mention that to kill him you would also need 39 other level 70 players help? Lol?

For the love of god. Keep it an RPG.

 

Well, Scion is dead and you're assuming they take the standard MMO route which Blizzard did with WoW. Of course, having 40 players face a single Sith Master would be totally ridiculous, something that doesn't make much sense in the Star Wars context, as opposed to the WarCraft one.

 

As far as WoW goes, heroes from the previous games turning into bosses was something bound to happen. If it wasn't included, people would request to face them.

 

By the way, if someone doesn't have enough self-control to stop playing when he has to stop playing WoW, well, too bad.

 

 

Agreed. WoW may be the best MMO on the market right now, but it shot the WoW story to Hell. Oh, look, Illidan apparently has an infinite supply of Ankhs of Reincarnation. And in the next expansion, Arthas returns to be killable. Crap.

 

Holy crap, while playing Battlefield 1942, I had to re-fight Omaha Beach 6000 times after taking it from the Germans! Dear god! That's the same for every multiplayer game? Oh the humanity! What have they done to World War II?!

 

By the way, Illidan is ultimately killed with the help of Maev Shadowsong and Akama. This is not against WarCraft lore at all. Remember how you had something else then heroes in WC3 that helped you defeat other heroes? Yeah.

There's no indication that Arthas will die at the end of the next Expansion. Kel'Thuzad and Kael'thas live even though players can confront them.

 

 

EDIT: By the way, there's a part in the game where Malfurion Stormrage speaks about his brother which seems to indicate that Illidan's story is not over.

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Uh..I said that, not Jambi.

 

My point is that characters are killed repeatedly. It shoots the story to hell. Yeah, it was bound to happen, but it doesn't make it good for WarCraft plot. Every major character is eventually going to get killed at this rate.

 

 

Corrected the quoting mistake.

 

 

Quoting myself.

 

By the way, Illidan is ultimately killed with the help of Maev Shadowsong and Akama. This is not against WarCraft lore at all. Remember how you had something else then heroes in WC3 that helped you defeat other heroes? Yeah.

There's no indication that Arthas will die at the end of the next Expansion. Kel'Thuzad and Kael'thas live even though players can confront them.

 

 

EDIT: By the way, there's a part in the game where Malfurion Stormrage speaks about his brother which seems to indicate that Illidan's story is not over.

 

So there you have it. No one is sure to have died up to now in WoW. What I will agree on is how the plot simply isn't as deep.

 

Kel'Thuzad's phylactery was not destroyed and fell into the hands of Father Inigo Montoy but wasn't destroyed and never reached the hands of the Argent Dawn. It means Kel'Thuzad will probably be ressurected some day.

 

Malfurion's speech with Keeper Remulos after slaying one of the green dragons indicate that Illidan still has a role to play in the future. In what form, no one knows, but it's not certain he simply died forever. Even so, that makes a one major character of the WarCraft universe who was killed in WoW.

 

Kael'thas Sunstrider didn't die during the player's confrontation with him. This is made clear after you turn in proof of his supposed demise to A'dal. He issues a warning to the inhabitants of Shattrath City.

 

The other character that is killed in WoW is Lady Vashj. Which wasn't a very developed one to start with, nor a particularly popular hero back in the day.

 

No one knows what will happen to Arthas for now.

 

So the argument that they're blindly killing every major character is based on misinformation. Thrall, Jaina Proudmoore, Rexxar, Tyrande Whisperwind, Malfurion Stormrage, Shandris Feathermoon, Maev Shadowsong, Cairne Bloodhoof, Akama, etc. have not been touched. The body count up to now, is 2-ish (assuming Illidan never makes a return). Again, I agree that the story probably isn't as fleshed out then in the RTS, which they said they would change in Arthas' case with Wrath of the Lich King. How that will turn out, I don't know.

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Well, Scion is dead and you're assuming they take the standard MMO route which Blizzard did with WoW. Of course, having 40 players face a single Sith Master would be totally ridiculous, something that doesn't make much sense in the Star Wars context, as opposed to the WarCraft one.

 

As far as WoW goes, heroes from the previous games turning into bosses was something bound to happen. If it wasn't included, people would request to face them.

 

By the way, if someone doesn't have enough self-control to stop playing when he has to stop playing WoW, well, too bad.

WoW is one of the most popular (And biggest money making.) MMOs of ALL TIME. George Lucas is greedy. Star Wars Galaxies sucked. Lets do the math here ;). Lucas wants a cut of that delicious MMO pie that Blizzard has.

 

As far as Starwars goes, heroes from the pervious games turning into bosses will be somthing bound to happen. If it wasn't included, people would request to face them.

 

The first step to beating an addiction, is admitting that you are addicted. I think everyone here will agree with me. COMPUTER GAMES ARE ADDICTIVE. Just as much as any drug, except without the side-effects.

 

So the argument that they're blindly killing every major character is based on misinformation. Thrall, Jaina Proudmoore, Rexxar, Tyrande Whisperwind, Malfurion Stormrage, Shandris Feathermoon, Maev Shadowsong, Cairne Bloodhoof, Akama, etc. have not been touched. The body count up to now, is 2-ish (assuming Illidan never makes a return). Again, I agree that the story probably isn't as fleshed out then in the RTS, which they said they would change in Arthas' case with Wrath of the Lich King. How that will turn out, I don't know.

Now I never did say that they were killing off every singal hero. But I will say that they are doing the EXACT OPPOSITE.

They suposedly killed off Illidan, Khadgar, Turalyon, Kurdan and Skyree, Danath, Alleria, Dalvyngir, Balnazzar, Terron Gorefiend, Deathwing, Cenarius, Archimonde, and Magtheridon. BUT, they brought all these heros BACK TO LIFE when the WoW expansion and WoW was released.

 

Reviving old heros because they're running out of new material. And its getting worse.

Elves allying Trolls AND Undead!?

3 diffrent species of Eredar? The "Good" cousins of Archimonde?

And more recently, Zul'jin appears without an arm or eye? Instead of uniting the Troll tribes, he comes out of Zul'Aman and declares war on the world. WoW is ruining the Warcraft storyline, turning its heroes into raidable bosses instead of what they actually should be. Heroes. And as seen with Arthas, they will continue to do so. They've already added time traveling dungeons to prove my point.

 

What if a KOTOR MMO came out and they brought Nhil back to life? And Malak? And Vandar? etc. etc. Just due to how popular the characters were? Are you saying they couldn't pull a Khadgar with Scion? They couldn't have him magically appear back to life? Cause they could, easily. And then what if people would wanted to fight Darth Vader?! LETS ADD A TIME TRAVELING DUNGEON!!! WEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

The only way an MMO for KoTOR would work, is if they did it Pre-KoTOR, IMHO

 

Well for all we care maybe there won't be a KotOR MMO... Maybe its the Monkey Island MMO?

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1-WoW is one of the most popular (And biggest money making.) MMOs of ALL TIME. George Lucas is greedy. Star Wars Galaxies sucked. Lets do the math here ;). Lucas wants a cut of that delicious MMO pie that Blizzard has.

 

2-As far as Starwars goes, heroes from the pervious games turning into bosses will be somthing bound to happen. If it wasn't included, people would request to face them.

 

 

3-The first step to beating an addiction, is admitting that you are addicted. I think everyone here will agree with me. COMPUTER GAMES ARE ADDICTIVE. Just as much as any drug, except without the side-effects.

 

1- I love this reasoning. As if an MMORPG was such a good cash cow, it was automatic profit. Of course, there is demand for a good Star Wars MMO, but it doesn't mean LA is a bunch of morons: they know such a game can fail and turn in deficits. Considering how Star Wars Galaxies went, the people would be skeptical if another game was made and quality would need to be there. It is no guaranteed success. They have to choose the right people to make such a game and wait for Galaxies to properly die.

 

Another thing is how nobody is going to "kill" WoW and not even Star Wars can do that. The market cannot be over-saturated with MMORPGs and they know that. Trying to hit them would just result in the market splitting and nobody winning anything. The reason for this is how people are mostly not willing to pay two subscriptions for two games.

 

2- Bull crap. It is well established that previous heroes are dead and miraculous comebacks are not something common with Star Wars. It would never work and I doubt people would request dead heroes. The problematic would be that these heroes are mostly villains. No one could face such characters as Canderous or HK-47. Hell, just make them NPCs and useful in the background story.

I mean, in the case of WoW, past heroes like Thrall and Tyrande are NPCs and practically unkillable.

 

 

3- Sure mate, whatever you say...

 

 

 

Now I never did say that they were killing off every singal hero. But I will say that they are doing the EXACT OPPOSITE.

They suposedly killed off Illidan, Khadgar, Turalyon, Kurdan and Skyree, Danath, Alleria, Dalvyngir, Balnazzar, Terron Gorefiend, Deathwing, Cenarius, Archimonde, and Magtheridon. BUT, they brought all these heros BACK TO LIFE when the WoW expansion and WoW was released.

 

Reviving old heros because they're running out of new material. And its getting worse.

Elves allying Trolls AND Undead!?

3 diffrent species of Eredar? The "Good" cousins of Archimonde?

And more recently, Zul'jin appears without an arm or eye? Instead of uniting the Troll tribes, he comes out of Zul'Aman and declares war on the world. WoW is ruining the Warcraft storyline, turning its heroes into raidable bosses instead of what they actually should be. Heroes. And as seen with Arthas, they will continue to do so. They've already added time traveling dungeons to prove my point.

 

Ok...Illidan was not dead after his confrontation with Arthas at the end of Frozen Throne. The developers noted that due to time constraint a proper cinematic was not made. If that had been the case, no assumption about Illidan's survival would have been made as it would have shown him witnessing Arthas' transformation.

 

Khadgar, Turalyon, Alleria, Danath Trollbane and Kurdran were only presumed dead due to them being stuck in Outland. Considering the world survived (in WoW:FT), it isn't unlikely they did too.

 

Deathwing never died. The novel, Day of the Dragon, mentions him manipulating King Terenas. This was published in 2001, before WoW, so he was never "revived for WoW".

 

Cenarius is dead and so is Archimonde. Don't know how you can say they brought them back...

 

Balnazzar was a mistake by one of the writers. I'll grant you this one.

 

They say Magtheridon was supposedly defeated and enslaved by Illidan. However, I'll give you this one too.

 

Blood Elves- Yep, it seems quite weird and I agree to a certain extent. First off, the case of the Troll is quite different. Trolls in the Horder were not Forest Trolls but came from Islands Thrall stumbled upon them when crossing to Kalimdor. The mission was not included in the full game but was present in the demo. The Darkspear Trolls are now lead by Vol'jin, seen in Frozen Thrown during Rexxar's "campaign" and they never had any problems with the Blood Elves.

About the undead, they are lead by Sylvanas Windrunner, an ex-High Elve who seems to harbor some regret over her transformation. Nevertheless, the Forsaken allying with the Horde was already a strange turn of event, so I'll give you this too. It isn't much of a problem in the long run though and up to now has turned out just fine.

 

Draenei/Eredar- Metzen admitted he screwed up. It is indeed true that it was a mistake and they tried to do their best in patching up the hole in lore. It's not the end of the world and isn't so bad now, considering everything.

 

Zul'jin- I don't really see what the problem is. The video they made for Zul'Aman, it is made clear what happened to Zul'jin. Now, he doesn't unite the Troll tribes but that isn't a problem either. He united the tribes of Zul'Aman, not every tribe in Azeroth. Darkspear Trolls for example, are a different tribe and under the Horde, as shown in WarCraft.

 

 

What if a KOTOR MMO came out and they brought Nhil back to life? And Malak? And Vandar? etc. etc. Just due to how popular the characters were? Are you saying they couldn't pull a Khadgar with Scion? They couldn't have him magically appear back to life? Cause they could, easily. And then what if people would wanted to fight Darth Vader?! LETS ADD A TIME TRAVELING DUNGEON!!! WEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

The only way an MMO for KoTOR would work, is if they did it Pre-KoTOR, IMHO

 

Yep, they can't pull any miraculous reincarnation. It's Star Wars after all. Now, Nihilus could be done, but who gives a crap about him? But as Force Ghost NPC, that's quite possible. After all, he did appear as such during the Legacy era starting in 130 ABY.

 

Time traveling is not impossible in the Warcraft universe and it was the best compromise to be able to play through those missions. Rhonin was thrown back in time in the "War of the Ancients" trilogy which was released in April 2004, before any plans for the Caverns of Time. It is clear that it is possible.

 

Such a thing would not be possible with a Star Wars game as it isn't in conformity with the universe.

 

And I've been saying for quite a while that the only way it could work and make as many people as possible happy would be to make it during the Mandalorian Wars, pre-KotOR...read the whole thread before posting...

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It's KOTOR III, don't have a source on this, but it's KOTOR III

 

But do you really think that Avellone and co [at Obsidian] would be ok with handing the reigns back to Bioware after what happened with TSL? Admittedly, I don't know how much control over it they actually have, but I can bet they wouldn't be too happy. I know they want to do a kotor 3.

 

Maybe its the Monkey Island MMO?

 

Why would Bioware use the Monkey Island IP as their first venture into the MMO world? Or even use Indiana Jones? Now of course they haven't announced that the Bio/LA 'interactive product' and the mmo that bioware is working on are one and the same. But if Bioware wants to come into the MMO market and make a dent into the monster that is WoW, the only way it can be done is with a SW IP.

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You actually think anyone cares whether Avellone would be happy with giving Bioware back their own game?

 

My point is, Obsidian would probably fight to continue the story. So yeah, somebody would care. And by the way, once Bioware said they didn't want to do kotor 2, it no longer was "their game." I sure don't recall seeing "Bioware Corp" anywhere on the TSL box.

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Bioware didn't do TSL because they wanted to concentrate on Jade Empire, LA wanted a sequel, so Bioware suggested Obsidian to LA.

 

TSL is KotOR, with saber styles and a mind numbing amount of dialog, so IMO KotOR is Bioware's... Not saying Obsidian didn't do a good job with what time they had, TSL is awesome, but I wanted LA and Bioware back together, that happened... Now they need to have a baby and call it KotOR III

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But do you really think that Avellone and co [at Obsidian] would be ok with handing the reigns back to Bioware after what happened with TSL? Admittedly, I don't know how much control over it they actually have, but I can bet they wouldn't be too happy. I know they want to do a kotor 3.

 

But isn't that call out of their hands?? If LucasArts wants BioWare then isn't that LA's rights to give it to them?

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But do you really think that Avellone and co [at Obsidian] would be ok with handing the reigns back to Bioware after what happened with TSL? Admittedly, I don't know how much control over it they actually have, but I can bet they wouldn't be too happy. I know they want to do a kotor 3.

 

At the risk of repeating what others are saying, they (Obsidian) have no control. Lucasarts owns the license and intellectual property, and leased it to Obsidian for the Sith Lords game.

 

Regardless if Obsidian is happy or not, they have no recourse if Lucasarts hands the license back to Bioware for a sequel or MMORPG (and I strongly feel/suspect that it is not a sequel, but the latter of the two, due to Bioware's denial of working on a direct sequel, and the labeling 'interactive entertainment product'). If Obsidian were to make a fight about it, the only result would be to appear unprofessional.

 

That being said, I'm excited that Bioware is the one with the ball in their hands, as opposed to Obsidian.

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I think it should only be normal LucasArts gave it to Obsidian. They worked on Kotor2 with another sequel in mind, while BioWare was finished with it after the first one. If it's an MMO, then BioWare is the only option. Besides the fact that Obsidian wouldn't want to make an MMO, they don't have enough employees to make one and then keep it supported for many years.

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I think it should only be normal LucasArts gave it to Obsidian.

 

I assumed it would be Bioware who would be doing TSL when it was announced, but it wasn't, theres no reason to believe that Obsidian would do another sequel, if the "trilogy" followed suit, another company all together would do KotOR III.

 

They worked on Kotor2 with another sequel in mind.

 

They should of worried about the game they were making, maybe it would of been finished?! (I know LA cut there schedule)

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I assumed it would be Bioware who would be doing TSL when it was announced, but it wasn't, theres no reason to believe that Obsidian would do another sequel, if the "trilogy" followed suit, another company all together would do KotOR III.

 

A reason to believe that is that Obsidian was interested in doing another Kotor while BioWare wasn't. They have always been enthusiastic about doing another, and it seems they have thought about it too. Together with the fact that the company is getting the hang of it, Mask of the Betrayer was a success, shows they are capable.

 

They should of worried about the game they were making, maybe it would of been finished?! (I know LA cut there schedule)

 

True. Mistakes of a beginning company. But better let a company working on a third Kotor that has something in mind that fits with the second, who maybe already worked some things out, than let a company work on it who thought the series was finished after the first one, how good that company may be. And, IMHO, Obsidian's stories are better than BioWare's (though they should do something about their endings :p)

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They should of worried about the game they were making, maybe it would of been finished?! (I know LA cut there schedule)

 

Yeah...

 

I could go on and on elaborating and agreeing to this, but I feel like it won't do any good. It is sufficient to just say that Lucasarts made a massive mistake trying to get a sequel out as fast as they did. They did not wait for Bioware to have its hands free, and then turning aside they slapped an unprepared Obsidian with a ridiculous timetable.

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